what to do when your pro cancels you

[Cashmere]

What do you do and how do you handle it when your pro cancels you a lot and I mean a lot 50%+++ before competition?

I don't know what to do this is my first competition and he just keeps cancelling. I am starting to not believe all the excuses.

Yesterday was the one day I knew it to be true, but other than that, I've heard it all, and I just can't believe them all

I'm in a funk, depressed, competiton is in 10 days. What do you do?

[newbie]

Post his name and town and studio.
Hire another pro.
Add a "cancellation=twice the refund" clause in your next contract with him.
Cancel the comps he had not cancelled (wait until the last minute).
Recommand this pro to all the ams in the same category than you.
Watch him starving and having to take a second job as a janitor when no am wants to hire him.

[elisedance]

newbie - pretty funny!

First, ask him if there is something significant in his life that is distracting him. Dance is important but other things can be mosre so - a sick mother, partner or child; financial troubles, even an addiction or legal problems etc. If any of these are the case ask how best he wants to handle your dance partnership/relationship. Of course, he should have said something himself but I would tend to be fogiving if they are the reasons and see how to best move on. If there is no such reason I think you're best option is to find a more reliable teacher/partner.

[chachachacat]

Just maybe he does have a good reason that is personal and he doesn't want to share it with his students!

Or, he could be a flake.

Or, he could be filling his time with another competitor or his own practice, if he is competing.

At any rate, it's crummy for you to be abandoned before your very first comp!
I always took extra good care of my students before a comp.

[latingal]

I would sit down and talk to the pro. You shouldn't feel unprepared for a comp because of missed lessons running up to the comp, especially your first one. As you get more experience with the dancing and competitions, you can handle some unexpected bumps in the road before comps. But since you're new, you'll want to feel somewhat comfortable going in.

I would hope either your pro makes time in his schedule to make up enough lessons to make you comfortable before the comp, or gives you an option to skip this comp and do another.

[Larinda McRaven]

Maybe switching your day or time. There are certain times and certain days on my schedule that are more easily interupted. So when students are in those hot spots there is not a lot I can do, except apologize. And I tell them up front.

I don't have a very firm cancellation policy. If they cancel on me, even at the last moment I am very forgiving, because I believe it is a two way street. (Unless it is chronic from them). And if I cancel a student really last minute (or worse yet forget to cancel them and they show up when I am not there) I give them the next lesson free.

I would set aside time to talk to him (off the clock if possible). Express your concern that you are not feeling prepared for your competition, and that you would like some less sporadic lessons. Perhaps he already knows there is an issue with him cancelling. And ask for come kind of reciprocal cacellation policy.

[Cashmere]

These are all good suggestions and advice.
Ok, the reasons he gave is : stomach flu a few times, hurt his back working over the weekend. I've been flexable with time. he tells me monday am that he can't make it and says how about thursday and I say ok, and then bails on thursday because he has car probs. Car probs another issue. Weather, ok we did have bad weather yesterday, but today was fine, i know it was fine even where he lived I checked the internet and he said it's bad.

I've been fairly flexable becuase of the competition, infact I'm rearranging my schedule for him.
Once I showed up and waited for 20 min and he didn't come and I didnt get a call, he said his phone was broke.

What do I think it is? I think it is his new house in the country, his dogs, he has other commitments, I don't know. i know he is not addicted or that.

I like him, a nice guy, I enjoy dancing with him, but I'm just feeling bad because he is cancelling all the time. He asked me for a schedule to commit to a schedule to him for the competiton, I did, and now no. I told himmondasy wednesdays fridays, 11 - 1 or 2, last wednesday the only day of the week I gotwednesday 12 - 2 because he said he was already booked for 11. That doesn't seem right to me. I gave him the set schedule and now he is not keeping to what he asked of me.

He does not charge the couple of times I was really sick and had to cancel but he cancelled more than I did last min. All his cancellations are really last min.

Thank you for your replies. they are most appreciated

[glance2]

These are all good suggestions and advice.
Ok, the reasons he gave is : stomach flu a few times, hurt his back working over the weekend. I've been flexable with time. he tells me monday am that he can't make it and says how about thursday and I say ok, and then bails on thursday because he has car probs. Car probs another issue. Weather, ok we did have bad weather yesterday, but today was fine, i know it was fine even where he lived I checked the internet and he said it's bad.

Excuses, excuses and more excuses. If you were an employer (in reality you are) would you tolerate this behavior? Miss work because of flu, hurt back, car problems, weather, etc. If it were me, I would end this relationship. It will be painful, but not as painful if you let this go on and on and on as he takes advantage of your goodwill. I have found that talking about it will get a "yes, I will improve" answer, but they revert right back to doing the same thing in the near future.

The sooner you do this, the sooner it will be behind you and the sooner you can move on. It's probably best for him, too.

[Cashmere]

newbie - pretty funny!

First, ask him if there is something significant in his life that is distracting him. Dance is important but other things can be mosre so - a sick mother, partner or child; financial troubles, even an addiction or legal problems etc. If any of these are the case ask how best he wants to handle your dance partnership/relationship. Of course, he should have said something himself but I would tend to be fogiving if they are the reasons and see how to best move on. If there is no such reason I think you're best option is to find a more reliable teacher/partner.

I think the truth is that he moved into a new home in the Country with his partner who has a regular 9 - 5 job. They have one car. He has 2 or 3 dogs, and basically I think the house needs work.

For some reason I also think he does something for someone on mondays. Once he was booking mondays for me and he talked to himself and said "am I opening for her this monday".

My problem is I like him. I'm now used to dancing with him. He is a great dancer, won a lot of trophies when he competed as a pro. He no longer competes for himself.

He is basically a nice guy. I also have hours coming. My hubby buys me a lot of hours at a time to get the discounted rate which is a good thing.

I don't get it, he owns the business, he knows I love to dance and that I book a good bit of time. I'm not difficult or demanding. I let him disucss the two dresses for the upcoming comp with the desinger he recommended. I take his advice except for 3" heals at the moment but we are working on that.

I don't understand why he would just willingly loose all this money. I asked him if he doesn't like me, and he said not at all.

But I do think there is something like Elsie says. I can't put my finger on it but there must be something, and I'm starting to think more than the house. Which pro works so hard around the house when they know they have 5 students in an upcoming competition to hurt their back and have to cancel? I mean it's just not logical to me in any profession if that makes sense.

Either that or he overboked and took on more and is now juggeling appts?

Anyway, thanks for listeing. I really am grateful for y'all letting me vent and giving me thoughts and ideas. I know I will have to decide, but I can't afford to loose the hours I have with him either.

I also do believe in giving second chances. Maybe if I have a real talk, if I get off my cowardly *** and we have a nice talk. Good people deserve second chances.

[tangotime]

I also do believe in giving second chances. Maybe if I have a real talk, if I get off my cowardly *** and we have a nice talk. Good people deserve second chances

.



Sounds to me like you have already given him TEN CHANCES !!!!

How many times do you have to put your hand on a hot stove before you realise it burns ?? :headwall:

I have employed teachers with those qualities ( for about 5 minutes )

[Cashmere]

Sounds to me like you have already given him TEN CHANCES !!!!

How many times do you have to put your hand on a hot stove before you realise it burns ?? :headwall:

I have employed teachers with those qualities ( for about 5 minutes )

You are quite right of course and I know it. ROTFL, that head banging aginst the wall is me yesterday after my upteenth cancellation. Love it. That's how I feel.

[tangotime]

You are quite right of course and I know it. ROTFL, that head banging aginst the wall is me yesterday after my upteenth cancellation. Love it. That's how I feel.



ya need to know -- there are some great teachers out there -- check around

[elisedance]

You are quite right of course and I know it. ROTFL, that head banging aginst the wall is me yesterday after my upteenth cancellation. Love it. That's how I feel.

From your answers I would agree with the above that its time to pull the plug. There comes a point where one can not avoid the terms 'disrespect' and even 'humiliating'. I assume that this pro has another line of work....

From now on think only in terms of what is important to you, not to your pro. Its too late to change pros for Classique so do whatever you have to to get through the comp. My worry is that, with his current behaviour, he may not even turn up in which case you have an awful mess - but at least you can be mentally prepared. I believe you are in a studio - I would request a meeting with your pro and the studio manager/owner. You are much more likely to get responses that will mean something.

Immediately after the comp :bkick:

[Cashmere]

From your answers I would agree with the above that its time to pull the plug. There comes a point where one can not avoid the terms 'disrespect' and even 'humiliating'. I assume that this pro has another line of work....

From now on think only in terms of what is important to you, not to your pro. Its too late to change pros for Classique so do whatever you have to to get through the comp. My worry is that, with his current behaviour, he may not even turn up in which case you have an awful mess - but at least you can be mentally prepared. I believe you are in a studio - I would request a meeting with your pro and the studio manager/owner. You are much more likely to get responses that will mean something.

Immediately after the comp :bkick:

To answer some questions. No he has no other line of work. I'm sure of that.
He is the owner of the studio. I can only talk to him. He does not have a lot of teachers. I think he has one teacher who does group once a week as he does have another job.
And he has a couple who dance together who are pros who teach for him sometimes I think and that's it. It's his sole source of income to the best of my knowledge all he wants to do is dance.

I think he will show up. he has 4 other students competing in La Classique. These 4 have been with him for a while and all have competed before even flew to Vegas with him last year for a comp.

I LOVE your "pic" so good, put a smile on my face.

I want you to know that y'all are helping me here. Mentally I'm in a better place than I was yesterday.
Whatever happens happens, I feel better listening to all of you and for what it's worth, it's done me a lot of good.
Thank you

[saludas]

Your teacher DOES have another line of work - studio owner. It is not the same as being a teacher. Sounds to me like the studio owner part of him is 'juggling' the lessons for his financial and personal well being. This impacts you since when a change in his plans or his business happens, he simply changes yours.

I suggest that you find another teacher. One who takes his responsibilities as a teacher seriously. Which is, among other things, responsibility for showing up.

[waltzgirl]

Ask for a refund on the lessons you have already paid for. (Check your agreement for the package you bought first to see if there are any stipulations about refunds.)

If he agrees, you're free to find another teacher. Or at least, it will let him know you are very serious about your objections to his cancelling your lessons. Dance students tend to be very loyal and if he has a group of students who put up with this behavior, he may feel it is "normal" and that it won't impact his business. Let him know otherwise.

[danceronice]

Finish the Classique with him and get a new pro. Like Tangotime said, you've given him ten chances, let alone a second. It's hard enough preparing for a pro-am comp with pros who DON'T jerk you around about your lesson times.

[Cashmere]

Hi everyone,

Well I danced last night and today and I've cleared the air with him. I'm keeping him. I like him, no it's not an outside interest other than he is a nice person, and well, **** happens in life. I would like to be treated the same way and yes I'm very loyal.

Add that to the fact that he is a fantastic dancer, I hate change, and we cleared the air. Things are good now. I want to thank everyone for their support and encouragement. You got me through a rough couple of days.

Y'all are great, thanks so much.

[elisedance]

Good luck - I hope it all works out fine.

Still, something tells me this thread is not ended yet.... :rolleyes:

[samina]

nice resolution, cashmere. good luck. sounds like he may have just hit a rough patch, as does everyone now & then.

my own pro has a pretty clear policy on last-minute cancellations... they won't occur unless he's on his deathbed.:rolleyes:

i pretty much return the favor, unless something comes up with the kids.

[fascination]

Post his name and town and studio.
Hire another pro.
Add a "cancellation=twice the refund" clause in your next contract with him.
Cancel the comps he had not cancelled (wait until the last minute).
Recommand this pro to all the ams in the same category than you.
Watch him starving and having to take a second job as a janitor when no am wants to hire him.
no ...do not post his name on here or it will be deleted...we will not be a host to malice...no one can verify ...do not do it...end of argument

[fascination]

bottom line is this...it doesn't matter why...if it is clear that this is wthe way he operates it...you A) explain to him that you don't like it and see if it changes, or B) do a cost benefit analysis and see if the benefits he offers are worth this personality flaw...b/c frankly he isn't likely to change much...but if you stay you relinquish your right to whine about it...

[Cashmere]

I'm new to all of this so that's why I was asking. For the record I would not post his name or anything about him, not my style, what's good and/or bad for me might be jsut the opposite for someone else.

I'm willing to do the wait and see, he is trying hard to make it up to me. and yes cost benefit and happy benfit are all on his side.

Thanks Elsie, I really appreciate all the advice and support, it helped me clear the air, and I feel much better about everything.

[fascination]

good to hear it cashmere...the note about not posting is a general one...not in any way directed to be harsh with you...but to simply note that our guidelines don't allow for that ....if he is trying to make it up to you that is a good sign...and I imagine also that your concerns about this are greatly influenced by the upcoming first comp...which tends to unhinge lots of people....lol...even after their first comp

[Cashmere]

You hit it on the head. My judgement is being greatly influenced because of the competition. Otherwise I would not feel panic. I can't say I'm nervous, just felt like a panic if I'm not practicing enough. I think ignorance is bliss, I don't really know what to expect so I can't be nervous, lol.

Panic yes, because I want to do the best I can. But you are right.

He has been very fair with me, when I first met him, he was just teaching my hubby and myself on saturday once a week. My very first lesson with him I had to cancel the same day as I was very sick with a food poisoning. He didn't charge me he understood. I thought that was extremely fair and nice.

Talking about it hear and listening, made me think back and what you just said even more so made me think about my panic because of the competition.

Thank you for your help. I know you were not being harsh with me, that it was general. I understand. I just didn't want anyone to think badly of me either to to ask as I would not do that. :))) Thanks again.

[glance2]

Please do us a favor and not pay for more lessons in advance no matter how great the deal is or how nice he is to you.

Decide whether to sign up for more until the package is almost up (like one lesson remaining). Give him the opportunity to show you that things are all cleared up.

If things are right, then great. If not, you won't regret your delay to commit to more lessons. You need to protect yourself.

[fascination]

meh...that may be a bit harsh...I hardly know anyone (except my pro) who doesn't expect pre-payment....but I do think small package until you have been around a while is prudent...even if it is at a higher rate...I know too many people who are stuck someplace b/c they bought a huge package and can't burn the lessons off or find the content lacking...besides, again, if he is apologizing and making amends, that deserves some appreciation

[Cashmere]

Ok, I have enough hours that I don't have to pay him more for a while. So that's not a problem.

And yes, he is trying hard to please me and make amends. I paniced I admit that. Yes, he did cancel 50%+ but life and &&&&& happens.
Since this is the first time I've complained, I only see this as the second chance. I've never opened my mouth nor have I ever complained.

As Miss Facination said, I have to weigh things and I am. I'm happy with him overall, he is a fantastic dancer and a wonderful teacher and his price is right and his studio is nice, clean, with a convienient location. Last place I was at was a filthy mess.

I'm so new to all of this, I feel so stupid. But I'm learning. Thank you

[Larinda McRaven]

Please don't feel stupid. Everyone has jitters before their first comp! And most people never feel ready, even when they have a lot of hours to get ready. It is fine to come here and vent (we even have a thread just for whining!) and we all have done it.

I am glad you had your talk with him, and that you are satisifed with the outcome. I am happy you are going to the competition, and I wish you lots of luck!

[reb]

As Larinda says, don't feel stupid.

We've all gone through some things. If DF existed when I started (or that I knew about it sooner) - that would have saved me a lot of pain to hear from DFers with experiences to share.

I'll bet there's some viewers learning from this right about . . .





now!

[elisedance]

I hardly know anyone (except my pro) who doesn't expect pre-payment

I haven't pre-paid any coaches since 2001. If they require that I don't go to them. But thats probably because I only take lessons from independent coaches - and they will adjust according to the income, as it were. They offer pre-payment plans with a small savings but my previous experience was that pre-paid lessons tended to be shorter and with less effort. This way there is always an understanding that I don't have to come back.

[wooh]

Glad you cleared the air with him. Always a good first step in making a positive change.

[Cashmere]

Y'all have a right to say I told you so. I have no right to complain. He did it again.

Yesterday I showed up for our scheduled time, he wasn't there. He has my cell phone, no call. I called his cell phone and left messages. I waited 20 min, as he lives a good bit away, nothing. I left. When I got home I had an e-mail saying he is cancelling but I had to leave early and do errands before class. I arranged my whole day yesterday around his schedule.

This morning I had another cancellation for our practice today at least I got it in time.

He added another hour to tomorrow. I'm bummed. The competiton is next week. He keeps telling me I'll be ready.

On a happy note, my dress maker/designer outdid himself. The dresses are beautiful. This being my first I had no clue what to expect. He is reliable, very reliable. He said I can pick them up on saturday they will be finished. In time for a dress rehersal, if I have someone to practice with. I'm trying not to stress or get too depressed.

I know y'all warned me. I'm just getting it off my chest, I'm trying to think positive.

thank you for listening.

[wooh]

Remember this when you get towards the end of those prepaid lessons. I can almost guarantee that he'll make it to those last few on time with bells on, at least until you prepay for a bunch more.:( Don't let him get away with being good when the money is due but being bad otherwise.

[Cal]

Do you have a "Plan B" just in case your Pro cancels or is a no-show at the competition itself? If you're willing to go out on a competition floor "cold", you might want to think about whether there is another pro who'd take your entries on short notice.

It isn't something that every student would want to do - but keep the idea in the back of your mind.

[etp777]

Man, never even had to consider that. Talk about a hard scenario (esp as a follow. Least as a lead I can just plan to have one of the good follows I know cover).

[Me]

Years ago during my initial interest in ballroom a pro constantly cancelled on me to the point that I just gave up on dance until some new people moved into the area. It was to the point that the receptionist was just plain embarrassed to call, and sometimes she would be calling only two hours before the lesson though I had booked sometimes weeks in advance. This was very discouraging for me. I was interested in dance, had natural talent (and also had earned talent from years of ballet) and I was also a competitive person (years of competition in karate). Why did he keep canceling on me? Always excuses and they always smelled rather fishy. Follow-ups to reschedule were never made - This was always left up to me. Again, very discouraging. I thought something was wrong with me.

I found out later that he kept canceling on me to book uninterrupted blocks of hours with the 'money pot' clients. It was at this point I understood just how valued I was as a client so I left.

[fascination]

Y'all have a right to say I told you so. I have no right to complain. He did it again.

Yesterday I showed up for our scheduled time, he wasn't there. He has my cell phone, no call. I called his cell phone and left messages. I waited 20 min, as he lives a good bit away, nothing. I left. When I got home I had an e-mail saying he is cancelling but I had to leave early and do errands before class. I arranged my whole day yesterday around his schedule.

This morning I had another cancellation for our practice today at least I got it in time.

He added another hour to tomorrow. I'm bummed. The competiton is next week. He keeps telling me I'll be ready.

On a happy note, my dress maker/designer outdid himself. The dresses are beautiful. This being my first I had no clue what to expect. He is reliable, very reliable. He said I can pick them up on saturday they will be finished. In time for a dress rehersal, if I have someone to practice with. I'm trying not to stress or get too depressed.

I know y'all warned me. I'm just getting it off my chest, I'm trying to think positive.

thank you for listening.um...yea...think you better consider a trade or lay down the ultimatum

[Cashmere]

No, I have no plan B. I don't know anyone else. I would of course consider it, I would do it just because I want to dance. Absolutely but have no clue about anyone else and I would guess that any other pro is probably already booked into the competition and even for money. Plus I just don't know anyone.

This is all new to me.

He has 4 others in this competition and I doubt he won't show.

I don't know what to think. Maybe today he cancelled me becuase he wanted to make it up to the others he cancelled they are all more advanced than I am.

It can't be money I take a lot of lessons or I would if he would be available. he owns the place.

My hubby spoke to him last week. It's his money and he is royally pissed off.

He agrees with all of you that I'm too forgiving.

One thing I'm not sure about is the money issue. There was a time when I ran out of hours and he didn't even care, he said, next time, don't worry about it. I landed up oweing him because he said next time, don't want to deal with it for now.

Did he cancel when the prepaid lessons were running out last time. Yes, he did, it didn't matter that I was running out of hours. Sometimes he doesn't even keep up with it. We are both not clockwatchers either. It's not money. He is not like that. Where credit is due I'm giving it.

He is a great dancer, he is a fantastic teacher, a nice person, just not the most reliable. He says it's the nature of the dance world.

That it's just the way things are in the dance world.

Y'all were right I have no right to complain, but I want to thank each of you for listening and talking to me.

[and123]

He says it's the nature of the dance world.

:shock: exCUSE me?!? So he can do whatever he wants and you have to accept it because that's the norm?

Words fail me here.

[elisedance]

:shock: exCUSE me?!? So he can do whatever he wants and you have to accept it because that's the norm?

Words fail me here.

go for it F. And while you are at it write a chorus so we can all join in...:cool:

[lcdancesport]

He is a great dancer, he is a fantastic teacher, a nice person, just not the most reliable. He says it's the nature of the dance world.

It's just unprofessional to be canceling you at the last minute, especially through an email. It's not like you're waiting at home 2 minutes before a lesson to see if he'll cancel on you or not.

After this comp and whatever pre-paid lessons you have left I'd find a new place to go to where you'll be treated with more respect. You're the student, you're the one paying him, you should be treated better than this.

Being nice and being a good dancer is fine and dandy, but there are other nice, good dancers out there too. It would be worth it to have to drive a little further to receive better service.

[nucat78]

I've been an employee, a manager, an independent contractor, a teacher (not dance) and a student. This guy is a flake. For whatever reason(s). You're just shooting yourself in the foot staying with him. Can't put it any more clearly than that.

[fascination]

well...look...it is true that he isn't even close to being the only pro who has a rather loose way of handling things...and only you can determine whether or not this obvious flaw is mitigated by other factors...but if you decide to stay you can't really expect it to change...there are however...ways to manage such deficiencies if one is inclined and the other options don't look more favorable for whatever reason

[waltzgirl]

It's not the way of the dance world in my parts. Don't put up with it.

If the worst happens and you find yourself at the comp with no pro, talk to the deck captain (the person who herds all the competitors on to the floor). He/she will know all the pros and can ask one if he will dance with you. My pro did that once.

[Larinda McRaven]

It's not the way of the dance world in my parts.

This is an artistic world, and people within it take a lot of liberties that other professions and industries would not even consider. (Although I bet people aren't calling Trump unprofessional and I KNOW that having him actually show up to a meeting that is scheduled is quite variable and questionable.)

I have only once in my career heard of a teacher just not showing up at a comp. But I hear every day how they cancel lessons last minute, don't show up, or waste lesson time on their phone or other conversations, start late, end early... And it is quite likely that this teacher will NEVER change. So better to accept it that that is HIS nature.

In the end it is up to Cashmere to decide for herself if the value of the lessons is worth the aggravation of being cancelled. I do believe she should ask for some sort of trade or equal responsibility in a "cancellation policy" If student cancels too late they get charged for the lesson. If pro cancels to late the next lesson is free... fair is fair.

(And no, I don't think we are an "I told ya so" bunch... unless we know you better, then we will never let you live something down!)

[jennyisdancing]

This is an artistic world, and people within it take a lot of liberties that other professions and industries would not even consider. (Although I bet people aren't calling Trump unprofessional and I KNOW that having him actually show up to a meeting that is scheduled is quite variable and questionable.)

I have only once in my career heard of a teacher just not showing up at a comp. But I hear every day how they cancel lessons last minute, don't show up, or waste lesson time on their phone or other conversations, start late, end early... And it is quite likely that this teacher will NEVER change. So better to accept it that that is HIS nature.

In the end it is up to Cashmere to decide for herself if the value of the lessons is worth the aggravation of being cancelled. I do believe she should ask for some sort of trade or equal responsibility in a "cancellation policy" If student cancels too late they get charged for the lesson. If pro cancels to late the next lesson is free... fair is fair.

Good suggestion. I do want to add that although the arts may have a good share of flaky people, the successful ones are the ones who act professional. It's a necessity because of the competition. If you don't show up for your gig, there are dozens of others ready and waiting to take your place.

So to me there is no excuse for this teacher's behavior, Cashmere. But if this teacher is miles better than anyone else in the area, and you learn brilliant things from him, things you can't learn from anyone else, then I guess you'll have to decide if he's worth the trouble. Otherwise, might as well find someone else who's willing to show up on a regular basis.

[Cashmere]

Hi everyone.
Waltzgirl thank you for the "what to do in case", I feel better knowing something that might be able to be done. I doubt it will come to that, but at least I have a clue of what to do.

Thank you all so much for listening to me. I want to tell you how much it is appreciated.

I was with a female teacher for a while. She used to charge me if I cancelled less than 24 hours. She could cancel and go away for months even without so much as a care to her clients. She lost clients. She was not into competitng and at that time I took only a private lesson with her and my hubby. She basicaly screwed me one too many times when I was going away for a dance weekend with the hubby and I wanted a couple of extra swing lessons that she promised and baled last min saying she needed time for herself. Her new place (she was the owner) was a filthy mess and my hubby was fed up with it.

I found this guy, and his place was so nice and clean and he is so organized compared to the other woman and if we have to cancel last min he didn't charge us either. In fact the very first lesson I had a bad stomach flu and had to cancel that morning and he was fine with it. No charge. He is fair about that. I want to stress that he is fair. He also has a refund policy so I think compared to others he is not trying to screw me purposely.

That's my problem. I don't think he is trying to hurt me or screw me. He treats me fairly, if I cancel last min which is rare, but if I'm sick, he says I don't have to pay, I'm a good client. Also for him 1 hour is 1 hour or even sometimes a little more. He never talks on the phone or takes any calls.

We talked about the business world and NO I don't consider Trump profession if he doesn't show up for a business meeting that is scheduled. But we talked about it, he said, that in general that's how it works in the dance world, like I had seen my dressmaker in November and didn't understand why we didn't start on the dresses till mid January when to me it would have been done before x-mas if he wasn't busy. Why work so hard last min. He is reliable though my dresses will be ready tomorrow and he did an amazing job and am very pleased but my teacher said, it's the nature of the dance world, sometimes you don't get your dresses till the night before the comp becuase that's how it works.

I have problems. First he speaks english, not everyone will teach in english and I need that. Second I don't think that aside from a big name that will be very expensive that I can't afford and there is no guarantee they will be better.

I searched on the internet before I came to this guy and I could not find any place other than the big name and one other place that operates like the big name and I've not heard the best things from that one either.

I checked out one place and they didn't speak english. It's not easy I think for the language is a big issue here.

In all honesty, I would not put up with this kind of treatment from any other service professional. But I do think that with a dance partner, you have to sort of get along, a little like a friend, I hesitate to use the word chemistry because I don't mean it romanticlly or sexually, just sort of gel or mesh plus the cost. He is reasonable and he is fair like I said.

Honestly I just don't know anymore. I'm just happy y'all are giving me a place to chat about it or I'd be really bummed out.

I'm trying not to stress. Stress is bad for my health my doctors tell me. At this point I'm not even going to think of having a chance to win. He cancelled so much I don't know how I'll do but I'm going to give it my all and just be happy I could do it.

Thanks again for listening to me and offering some very very good advice.

[waltzgirl]

But I hear every day how they cancel lessons last minute, don't show up, or waste lesson time on their phone or other conversations, start late, end early...


I guess I'm just lucky in my pro--and my studio. Anyone who behaved like that would be asked to leave.

[Cal]

As a believer in Plan Bs, let me offer some suggestions.

When you are at the competion, look through the program for a list of participating studioes and pros. There may be some listed in your area that you don't yet know about.

Talk to EVERYONE - pros, competitors, spectators. Someone may know a pro who is willing to travel to your area to give lessons. Someone may know a pro who is about to relocate. Someone may be in your same position and is eager to plan a joint solution with you.

You never know where a good tip will come from. And even if the information isn't useful now, it may turn out to be very useful in the future.

I've had to use Plan Bs on occasion, and be aware that sometimes they have unexpected silver linings.

[fascination]

exactly with L on this

[waltzgirl]

exactly with L on this

Well, I agree that's who he is and won't change. If C. wants to keep taking lessons from him, she'll have to change her expectations. Perhaps schedule more lessons than she really plans on taking, so when some are cancelled, she'll still get a reasonable # of lessons. Perhaps always call him 30 minutes before each lesson to confirm and don't expect a lesson to take place until that confirmation.

But I don't buy that that's the way of the dance world and we just have to put up with it. And I certainly don't believe it's the way of the "artistic world." I've worked in theatre and trust me, an actor who was consistently late or failed to show up for rehearsals would be fired instantly. In fact, the most precise timekeeping I've ever experienced has been in the theatre.

[fascination]

I agree WG that it isn't okay nor is it absolute...only that it is common...I could but won't rattle off several offenders...but since the guy admits it and is habitual...I agree...if she stays she needs some coping techniques...some of mine would include:

1)"pro, this is just a call to confirm our appt...if I do not hear back from you by (insert time here) I am assuming that my lesson is cancelled"

2) "oh sorry, the day that you cancelled was the only day that I had free this week"

3) I need a standing appt for this day at this time....

[Stagekat]

Wow... tough call on all of that... I had a similar a situation with one of my pro's way back at the beginning, but because of my own personal high standard of customer service and professionalism (or it could be that I'm not as forgiving as well) I only let myself be canceled or rescheduled without my knowledge 4 times before I simply informed my studio that I would not continue to take lessons from canceling pro. I later found out that it wasn't all the pro, but was actually some studio higher-ups that were changing the schedule around and not calling me to let me know... :mad: The fact that I dropped said pro made a statement and it hasn't happened with any pro since (to me anyway). Fortunately this pro and I have maintained a professionally friendly relationship and we still get to dance together at socials and such. :D I still consider him to be an excellent teacher, but I just couldn't work with him under those conditions.

I'm perfectly ok with rescheduling I get it... it happens, but I do want to be informed by phone and it doesn't have to be the pro calling, anyone at the studio would be fine... even if it's 30 min before the lesson. If I get a VM and I haven't checked it... then it's my fault for not getting the message. I too schedule my life around the few times a week I get to take a lesson, and I can't burn my own personal time preparing for and going to the studio if there won't be any lessons as scheduled.

I agree with all those that are thinking a plan B needs to be formed and put into place... and a plan B should be maintained if the current B becomes Plan A. Unfortunately with the timing of the comp that is a real rock and a hard place... If I think about it from that perspective, then the following would probably happen... if I couldn't get a refund for my comp fees,(being prepared would be my utmost concern at this point) then I would have to say that this would be the LAST comp I would work with that pro on, and promptly bring some "new blood" into my lessons.

Who knows? You may end up in a better place dancing with someone new than you would have ended up with your orig. pro!:banana:

[Cashmere]

I like L's Plan B. sounds good and I will do that. I have to.

First, my pro owns the studio and has no secretary, or manager or anything. I did tell him that if he sends me an e-mail and doesn't get a reply saying I "got it" then he should call. He didn't. I guess he forgot and I will discuss again.

I have standing appointments. He asked for them and I gave him 3 hours 3 times a week plus 1 hour for the 4th day. I told him I was somewhat flexable even with some notice, I don't know how much more I can book. I was willing to book more time if he wanted.
My husband bought me 50 hours, the most he offered just before x-mas. It was the most hours he offered. I tried to tell him that if wants to achieve that matched set of LV luggage he is drooling over he needs to stop cancelling me and think of the money.

I've made firm standing committments. I've book 12 - 14 hours a week guaranteed if he shows, all private and I'm not a difficult person. He gave me maybe 3 hours if I was lucky some weeks. This week I got 4-1/2 so far. He said I could have 2 instead of 1 tomorrow.

Honestly I've never seen a person who owns the business not want to make money like this. He needs a new car. I keep telling him he could have the down payment just on what he cancelled me in 6 weeks.

I put my heart and soul into this competiton (being my first) my cardiologist told me I need the exercise. My hubby said I could dance as many hours as I wanted during the day. I asked my 93 year old semi blind mother to put up with my schedule (she lives alone and I'm the only living relative in the whole world). She went along with my schedule which is his schedule. He knows this.

I'm tired. I'm just not getting my hopes up.Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions. At least my dresses are nice. If I have someone to dance with me. :(

I just think he is not being fair. I was so desperate today I drove over to his studio to see if he took someone else in place of me. Nope it was closed.

I just don't get it.

Thank you for listeing to me. Would you believe I actually asked him to go to NYC to compete and travel with me sometimes. I said, more lessons, I love to dance. Really love to dance.

I like L's plan B as I said.

Language here is a problem.

[waltzgirl]

Most pros who have students taking that many lessons really cater to them. If you can spend that kind of money, you have options. I think you said there was a Big Name studio in your area. Even if they are twice as expensive and you can only schedule 6-7 hours a week, at least you would get all seven, not just three. You can (should) practice on your own and/or do other kinds of training that will help your dancing, if you need more exercise than that. Bigger studios also usually have group classes and parties for more dancing.

But another thought about how to cope if you want to stay with him. Don't schedule appointments, make an arrangement to call him every morning and see what hours he has that day. If they match up with the hours you're free, fine. If not, try again the next day. At least that way you won't be continually expecting a specific lesson time and being disappointed.

[Cashmere]

If you can spend that kind of money, you have options. I think you said there was a Big Name studio in your area. Even if they are twice as expensive and you can only schedule 6-7 hours a week, at least you would get all seven, not just three. You can (should) practice on your own and/or do other kinds of training that will help your dancing, if you need more exercise than that. Bigger studios also usually have group classes and parties for more dancing.

My problem is that I don't want group. The big name wants a "package", group practice and one private a week. That's not for me. I won't do well in group. I tried group. I have a back issue, I need to sit and rest when I need to sit and rest. I won't go to the parties. They are at night and that's not going to happen. The deal with the hubby is I get to dance during the day. If he feels like it he takes a lesson with me on a saturday to make me happy (not before the competiton, all the time is just for me and he is happy).

And in all honesty, if I told you how much my 50 hours cost, that would not buy me a lot of "big name time". I know the price of the big name. It's tripple of what I'm paying now if not quadrupple. Trust me my 50 hours was not what you are thinking.

[waltzgirl]

Ah, sorry, I though by big name you meant a big name pro (national finalist or the like). I can see how the chain studio arrangement wouldn't fit your circumstances. Well, one last suggestion, try the directories on ballroomdancers.com and accessdance.com. You might find an independent instructor in your area.

[fascination]

well look..again, it all boils down to accepting who he is...you don't have to like it or tolerate it...but if you are going to continue with him, you are signing up for his behavior if you can't figure out a way to manage him...the fact that you do have a boatload of money and it doesn't change his behavior is further evidence that it isn't about the money or even pre-meditated...the dude is just distracted and organizationally challenged...not the worst thing in the world and it isn't his fault if you move your whole world to accomodate him...that is giving him way too much power...so set your boundaries or bail....

[Cashmere]

Ah, sorry, I though by big name you meant a big name pro (national finalist or the like). I can see how the chain studio arrangement wouldn't fit your circumstances. Well, one last suggestion, try the directories on ballroomdancers.com and accessdance.com. You might find an independent instructor in your area.

I will be takeing I think it's L's advice and looking and trying to talk to people there and asking around. For me here it's a language thing also. Not everyone wants to or can speak english.

No I meant like a famous name (big chain) studio. Actually my pro has a lot of trophies from when he competetd professionally. He seems to know a lot of people in the dance world.

No worries, I'm knew so maybe it's my fault I don't know all the right terms. Not your fault, probably me for not expressing myself clearly.

[fascination]

another thing cashmere...when you are at your upcoming comp...take a good look at who is winning there...that will tell you something about who you might consider...who is there with more than one student who does fairly well with each of them...you can learn alot at comps

[waltzgirl]

No I meant like a famous name (big chain) studio. Actually my pro has a lot of trophies from when he competed professionally. He seems to know a lot of people in the dance world.

No worries, I'm knew so maybe it's my fault I don't know all the right terms. Not your fault, probably me for not expressing myself clearly.


No problem. We do have our own lingo, which you seem to be catching onto quick.

It's pretty clear you would like to stay with this pro. So finding a way to manage him seems to be the best approach. Personally, the call every morning to see what's possible that day would work the best for me. I don't do well with being set up and disappointed. (I once stopped seeing a guy because every time we saw each other, at the end he'd say "I'll call you tomorrow." He never did. I practically begged him to stop staying it. It didn't matter to me when he called, but I couldn't take being set up to expect him and then be disappointed. Weird thing is, he wouldn't stop saying it!)

[fascination]

um...I have found that "I absolutely need a call by "x" time or I won't be there" is a motivating factor...and it gives me some sense of stability

[Cashmere]

um...I have found that "I absolutely need a call by "x" time or I won't be there" is a motivating factor...and it gives me some sense of stability

This is a wonderful idea. I am going to do this.
Yes, you are right, I would very very much like to stay with this pro. I'm used to him, like his overall personality and his dancing and teaching style.

I think I need to stress the "I need a call to cancel by XX time" or I need a confirmation of our class by XXX time and stress this factor. I think I need to do this for every appt, something I didn't think about since we had discussed maybe I wasn't clear that is an everyday thing and he just thought it was the one off.

Wonderful idea. I just can't think straight. I have so much going through my brain about this.

I really appreciate all the advice, and thanks for not saying "I told you so" y'all would have every right to shut me up and to say that.

I also agree with everyone who said he won't change. I have to either accept him as he is or not. It's my choice obviously but that I also see. Thank you for opening my eyes to this as well

Y'all are a great group. Thank you

[Joe]

Where do you live that finding someone teaching in English is a big deal?

[Cashmere]

Where do you live that finding someone teaching in English is a big deal?

Montreal

[Joe]

Ah. Maybe you could move to Toronto, eh? :D

[fascination]

mini-highjack...speaking of which, they have changed their comp date (Montreal) and I am thinking we might go....woohooo.......


BOT

[Cashmere]

I want to say that my Pro really came through for me. He did a great job. Gave me one of the best days of my life. The only days that are really happier these days is when the docs give me good news and that my hubby and my mom and myself are healthy. No cancer no bad illnesses.

I forgive him for everything. In fact he is getting a very nice thank you gift that my mom suggested I give him, she is paying for it, lol. She couldn't be there but she was so happy for me.

I'm hooked, my first and I loved it. I love to dance. I can actually feel my feet this morning.

[elisedance]

What a wonderful outcome CM. Maybe this success will also spur him to treat you with more respect and appreciation. Rooting for you :)

[etp777]

Great to hear, cashmere.

[wooh]

Glad you had a great day! Just remember to make sure he continues to treat you with the respect you deserve.

[Cashmere]

another thing cashmere...when you are at your upcoming comp...take a good look at who is winning there...that will tell you something about who you might consider...who is there with more than one student who does fairly well with each of them...you can learn alot at comps

Actually mine did very well. All his students placed well. All placed 1st 2nd and/or 3rd. multiple times in all catagories.

I did learn, a lot. To be satified with what I have. After looking around, checking it all out, I would not change.

I'm happy with the one I have. I took your advice I watched, I would not change. I think he had a rough patch.

I'm sure we are all good now, I'm sorry I ever complained now.

[latingal]

Cashmere, I'm happy that things worked out for you. But on the cautionary side, as they say, cats do not change their stripes. You may be right and he just hit a rough patch, but if you are happy with this pro, I would make sure to do some contingency planning for the next comp (read that as take extra lessons in advance of comps to make sure you're ready beforehand) and accept that this might happen again.

[saludas]

I dunno. You dodged a bullet, but you have no reason to belive that it is now "ok".

in the future, as your dancing becomes more advanced, you'll need a teacher that puts in the time with you that you need. it might be ok now, but missing lessons and practices is what separates the successes from the failures...

[anp73ga31]

Why are you sorry you ever complained? You had every right to complain.

I'm disappointed that after quite a few people have confirmed to you that this is NOT a normal thing, you still think you have it good and all is going to be well and he is great, etc. For every one person who answered you on here, they could probably confirm with ten to twenty people each (if not more) that this is not the norm. That means hundreds of people (if not more) who could confirm to you that this is just NOT the way things are supposed to work. But whatever.

I am sad to say that most likely it will happen again and again until you find another pro. I hope for your sake that this is not the case. At any rate, I'm glad the competition went well and you dodged the bullet this time. I hope things work out for you in the future. Not trying to be mean here, so I hope you dont take it that way. I just feel bad for all the good pros out there who would NEVER dream of doing this to their students having to read that you are happy with the crumbs this man gives you when you could have the whole cake.

[fascination]

well...either way...your choice ...but if you stay...stay knowing that you will have to continue to occasionally give boundaries...and perhaps open an occasional can of whoopa$$...shrug...there are worse things

[waltzgirl]

Cashmere, sounds like, given your situation and your liking for this pro, the trade-off of aggravation vs. results is worth it to you at the moment. It's your call, now and in the future.

I'm sure first-comp anxiety had something to do with how upset the cancellations made you. As adamant as I was that you do not need to put up with his behavior if you don't want to, I won't be as negative as some are now. As much as most of us deeply value our own pros, if we are honest, there are probably some compromises we make (compared to the ideal, imaginary 'perfect-in-every-way' pro) to work with them. We all weigh the good and the less than ideal and how much/what kind of the latter we think the good outweighs.

[fascination]

Cashmere, sounds like, given your situation and your liking for this pro, the trade-off of aggravation vs. results is worth it to you at the moment. It's your call, now and in the future.

I'm sure first-comp anxiety had something to do with how upset the cancellations made you. As adamant as I was that you do not need to put up with his behavior if you don't want to, I won't be as negative as some are now. As much as most of us deeply value our own pros, if we are honest, there are probably some compromises we make (compared to the ideal, imaginary 'perfect-in-every-way' pro) to work with them. We all weigh the good and the less than ideal and how much/what kind of the latter we think the good outweighs.
exactly:cheers:

[Cashmere]

Waltzgirl, you are 100% correct. I didn't know what to expect and while I wasn't nervous for the comp to go out there, I wanted to be ready and do my best.

I know, but you know what, maybe it's me, I will start earlier next time. He gave me what I wanted and then some. How many people can say they got more than what they expected or pay for.

I watched. Some of the egos I would never be able to deal with. Even if they never cancelled me, I could not deal with some of the egos I saw (from the Pros)

I also think he is fair, if I cancel last min like I had to on tuesday I had to cancel that same morning, no big deal, no charge to me and he understood.

I also think he is nice and fair. I took everything everyone said and put it on a scale. And I'm happy.

He doesn't have an ego the size of a watermelon at least not with me. I watched him with his other students. He treats us as people, not as money wells. He does treat me with respect. Maybe not about the cancel, but there is more to respect than that.

He treats me like I can dance and not like he is doing me a favor. I watched some pros who act like they are doing their students favors. He really treats me the way I want to be treated overall. I have to take that in account.

I looked around, I look at all the Pros dancing, behavior with their students overall, attitude, skill, and I will take mine. I wouldn't switch. He got me water, he took care of me, it wasn't just a job to him with us. He treated us (all his students) like we mattered.

Most of all, he gave me what I wanted. That's the bottom line. I got more than I expected out of the day. Way more. My hubby said he never saw me look so happy.

Even one of the judges said that to me when he gave me my "token" He said "good job you look so happy".

All I can say is I'm sorry I ever complained. He didn't deserve that. Maybe I didn't deserve the cancellations, but heck no one is perfect. I'm not I should not expect him to be either.

I'm writing this becuase it's important for me to be fair and honest about this person. I feel like I should never ever had said a word.

[fascination]

yep...I beleive you...I really do...and I feel the same way about mine...but I still keep that can of whoopa$$ in my pocket

[Cashmere]

yep...I beleive you...I really do...and I feel the same way about mine...but I still keep that can of whoopa$$ in my pocket

I'm not understanding, waht do you mean, $$ in the pocket?

I know it's an expression, I just never heard it or know what it means.

And thank you for understanding. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong to feel the way they do, I just think that maybe everyone is different and has different expectations.

One thinh I noticed out of all of this (at the competition) is that everyone has different expectations. It's not about age or anything. I heard a man who was older than me, in the Pro/Am, he was probably one level above me. I could overhear some of this conversation, nothing bad, but his head is in a totally different place than mine. Not bad, just totally different.

I realized that this is a sport like anything else and everyone has different needs and expectations. In some ways it's very individualized. There is a little something for everyone. Which is a good thing at least in my opinion.

Thank you so much for your understanding and support.

[waltzgirl]

Well, that's what anonymity is for! Part of the reason I keep to my anonymous status here is some of the whining about my pro I did at one point. We all need to do it sometimes and it's certainly better for everybody to do it here anonymously than to, for example, talk to other students where a temporary dissatisfaction on your part might end up actually hurting his reputation.

[Larinda McRaven]

whoopa$$ - kick butt

"A Can of Whoopass" is a statement that means Fascination is ready to let her pro have it anytime he is out of line.

[fascination]

lol...it's a little saying....I heard it in texas...mainly what it means is...pack a little bit of ammo in your pocket just in case he gets outta line again...it was a joke ;)

here's the thing...as WG says...we all have our little idiosyncrasies...

like sometimes ya just have to call your mom or sister to whine about your spouse... same is true of your pro (no matter how much ya love him)...but ya do hafta be careful on a public forum...personally, I am an open book with mine...he is an immensely talented wonderful man who sometimes makes me NUTS...and I am certain that he has had a phone call or two to a few of his friends to ventilate about me...it's all good...people who care get frustrated...and we all decide for ourselves how to navigate that...bottom line is, that while you are having a new honeymoon moment over this comp, be aware that personalities rarely change and don't be shocked or hurt....be prepared....good luck...

[fascination]

whoopa$$ - kick butt

"A Can of Whoopass" is a statement that means Fascination is ready to let her pro have it anytime he is out of line.aww....that makes me sound so fierce...actually, I try to save it for when it really counts...but yea....sometimes, if it really matters;)

[Larinda McRaven]

http://www.redshirtgames.com/origins2005whoopass01400.jpg http://www.bevnet.com/images/reviews/whoop_ass/whoopass.jpg

[fascination]

yep...that's the stuff...figured you prolly had some ;)

[Larinda McRaven]

plenty!

[nucat78]

Sounds like all turned out well and that's good. I'd still keep a contingency in mind for your next comp prep.

BTW, "Whoop A**" comes from "Whup a**" which comes from getting a "whupping" which is Southern dialect for corporal punishment, i.e. whipping.

[Cashmere]

Sounds like all turned out well and that's good. I'd still keep a contingency in mind for your next comp prep.

BTW, "Whoop A**" comes from "Whup a**" which comes from getting a "whupping" which is Southern dialect for corporal punishment, i.e. whipping.

Yes, it did and thank you for the explaination. I like that, gotta get me a can of that not for the Pro but for a few other things that come to mind nothing to do with dancing.

No, I'm good. He won't bail. The other ladies have been with him a long time, he has never bailed. This really was a rough patch. It's all good.

He went above and beyond and I'm very happy. I'm so sorry I ever said anything at all. I gotta learn to keep it zipped.

I'm new to all of this. I loved every min of it. (except having to wear makeup), all his advice was spot on, and I'm hooked. I'm ready to go to the next one.

Thanks everyone, y'all were great. Alls well that ends well.

[fascination]

well...bailing for a comp and cancelling on a regular basis are two different things...and I thnk folks are cautioning more regarding that...but best to you at any rate...enjoy the ride

[Cashmere]

well...bailing for a comp and cancelling on a regular basis are two different things...and I thnk folks are cautioning more regarding that...but best to you at any rate...enjoy the ride

Oh sorry, I wasn't clear, the other ladies said he doesn't cancel. This was a rough patch for real. They are with him for a long time and this is the first time it happened to all of us. I'm new to him so I didn't know.

I know everyone meant well. I really do and I appreciate it.

I really did enjoy every min of it. It was fantastic. I'm so hooked.

[fascination]

well excellent then

[anp73ga31]

dont feel bad for posting, ever. no one knows who you are, anyway, and thats what the forum is for.

sorry if I came across too strong. i'm just used to pros who would never dream of cancelling, and if they do, they do it way in advance. my current pro says either of us can cancel up until 12 midnight the night before the lesson. after that, if he cancels, I get a lesson free. if I cancel, he gets paid for a lesson. he says its his job and the only way he makes money, and he has to be serious about it. my previous pro only cancelled when his main job ran over and he couldnt make it (teaching was part time to him). my other previous pro would have had to have been deathly ill to cancel a lesson. based on that, i'm sure you can understand my horror at the way your pro was treating you. it just sounded bad, really bad. and it was bad, dont belittle it....he did you wrong. but if he made up for it, and came thru in the end, and it was just a rough patch, its understandable for you to want to give him another chance. based on what the other ladies who take from him have said, it sounds like that is the case. therefore, i wish you the best of luck with your pro.

and congrats on the comp, btw. glad you had a good time.

[Cal]

I gave a Pro who bailed on me at a comp. another chance, and so far, so good . . . . but I've still got a Plan B.

[Cashmere]

Thanks everyone, I just felt stupid. I complained and y'all gave great advice and well I just felt stupid. Thanks for understanding. Really, y'all are great.

No need to feel bad or sorry you didn't come on strong, you spoke from your heart and how you felt. I understand that.

I'm so hooked on it all. It was an amazing experience, and I want to do it again, the sooner the better.

I do believe in giving chances. I also asked myself if he would have cancelled and it wasn't the comp, I wouldn't care so much. Today, tomorrow, I'm pretty flexible. I think it will be all good at least I hope so.

Thanks again guys really appreciate the advice and understanding.