Some perspective, please...

[CALI DOLL]

I'm wondering what you guys think about doing syncopations, variations and hijacks in a newcomer Jack and Jill.

I've been dancing for almost a year and have made finals 2 out of the 3 times I competed in Newcomer J&J. When I've made finals, I've throw in a ronde or something very simple into my dance. But, recently I've learned how to hijack (and slide) on a left-side pass and I also syncopate on the "6" and "and 1" of patterns. It's pretty simple...just a tap and/or a point on the "6" count and the "and 1" count. Maybe even a Betty Boop on "and 1".

Now, I've heard many people say that during a Newcomer J&J, you should just focus on showing the judges that you have rock-solid basics. Then, I've heard other people say that you should show that you "belong in a higher level" so that the judges will want to advance you. :confused:

Is there a happy medium? Can you show the judges you have rock-solid basics AND can do some cool stuff?

I'd feel crappy if I syncopated my way OUT of finals (assuming I dance well enough to make finals anyway :wink:) during the Newcomer J&J.

Thoughts?

Just want some more opinions because I can't seem to come to an answer I feel comfortable with. :D

[jennyisdancing]

I'm wondering what you guys think about doing syncopations, variations and hijacks in a newcomer Jack and Jill.

I've been dancing for almost a year and have made finals 2 out of the 3 times I competed in Newcomer J&J. When I've made finals, I've throw in a ronde or something very simple into my dance. But, recently I've learned how to hijack (and slide) on a left-side pass and I also syncopate on the "6" and "and 1" of patterns. It's pretty simple...just a tap and/or a point on the "6" count and the "and 1" count. Maybe even a Betty Boop on "and 1".

Now, I've heard many people say that during a Newcomer J&J, you should just focus on showing the judges that you have rock-solid basics. Then, I've heard other people say that you should show that you "belong in a higher level" so that the judges will want to advance you. :confused:

Is there a happy medium? Can you show the judges you have rock-solid basics AND can do some cool stuff?

I'd feel crappy if I syncopated my way OUT of finals (assuming I dance well enough to make finals anyway :wink:) during the Newcomer J&J.

Thoughts?

Just want some more opinions because I can't seem to come to an answer I feel comfortable with. :D

Hey Cali!
I learned a slide but I've been too chicken to actually use it while social dancing. :)

From observing some J & J's (including ones you were in!) it did look to me like some of the winners used syncopations/footwork variations, but didn't go too wild with flashy moves or hijacks.

I also noticed (among the winners) just really nice technique, clean lines and body movement (which I know you've learned too).

Of course I have no expertise, I would guess the best answers would come from your instructors and from anyone on this forum who has judged J & J's or has personal knowledge of judging criteria.

I did find this description of judging info on the Mad Jam website.

Newcomer - This is an entry level division for students with very little or no previous competition experience. It is limited to students competing less than 1 year in that dance. Students who have previously won a contest against 3 or more entries should move up to novice or intermediate. Newcomer competitors should exhibit traditional basic figures only. Judges will be looking for good basic technique, connection, timing and confidence. Complex variations and elaborate patterns are not acceptable in newcomer divisions.

Novice - This division is for students with less than 3 years total dance experience and limited previous competition experience. Students are expected to perform solid basics. Limited variations are allowed but not required. No leans, drops, or breakaways are allowed. All material should be recognizable as familiar, common “leadable” social patterns.

Intermediate - This division is for students with significant prior competition and or dance experience. Students are expected to perform clean basics with variations and musicality. Judges will consider musical interpretation, showmanship and creativity. If you want to show off, you should enter this division.

Advanced – This division is for seasoned competitors who want to get in front of the audience and judges with their teacher. The just dance division rules apply and judges will consider everything including but not limited to: variations, musicality, teamwork, showmanship and creativity.

[Dancelf]

I did find this description of judging info on the Mad Jam website.

Careful - those are the pro-am rules (http://users.erols.com/dave.moldover/atlanticdancejam/rules.htm).

[jennyisdancing]

Careful - those are the pro-am rules (http://users.erols.com/dave.moldover/atlanticdancejam/rules.htm).


hmm, you're right...anyone know of the judging rules for J & J to post on here?

[kayak]

Hi, I would be really careful about hijacking. You really have to be certain the guy is ready to handle a hijack and knows what to do? If he doesn't, nothing calls more attention from the judges than two people being totally out of sync.

Also, several of the better dancers around me say hijacking is out. I think they argue that play time should be leadable? So there is a really limited number of places a hijack is necessary?

As a guy, I usually start simple and work my way up my list of fun things. I would think a decent rule as a lady would be to not be the first person in the couple to add extra beats like many play with around the anchor. It is fun to add an extra couple beats with scissors or something like that. If I was a lady, I probably wouldn't try adding extra beats until the guy had led one? Otherwise, the end result could be similar to the full on hijack mess.

[CALI DOLL]

Jenny, Kayak and Dancelf, thanks!

Hmmm, I probably wouldn't have the guts to hijack anyway so scratch that...LOL!

Jenny, I've tried the hijack slide while social dancing quite a few times...I always do it and then look at the lead like "Did I do it right?" LOL!

But, Kayak, when you speak of adding a couple of beats are you talking about the syncopations on the anchor and "and 1" steps? Because I don't think the beats change (I really don't know what I'm talking about, LOL) but I'm just doing a variation, I think. I think the count stays the same. The only thing is the "and 1" syncopation creats more of a pull on that first step and then a hurry up step on "and 2". I guess that might possibly confuse a Newcomer lead, though, huh?

By the way, what's a "scissor"?

[Dancelf]

OK, you asked for thoughts....

Disclaimer: I don't compete. I also don't judge (I've tried a few times for practice - it's really hard). But I've picked up a few things just hanging around.

First thought - you've made finals two times out of three? Why are you messing with it?

Second thought - you need to keep clear in your head what your goal is, and how you are most likely to achieve it. They can't give you any prize higher than first. They can't give you any prize lower than last. Look at the lineup - who are you competing against? Who did you draw as a partner, and where does he rank among the finalists?

Third thought - event promoters, or at least some of them, will have particular ideas for what sort of dancing they want to be rewarded. These ideas are communicated to the head judge, who instructs the judges working for him. The head judge may also tell you, in the competitors meeting, if you think to ask him "what are the judges looking for this week?"

Fourth thought - if the head judge gives you a bull**** answer, you need to see through it. Probably unwise to call him on it, though.

Fifth thought - as a rule, in novice and newcomer, the leaders are typically weaker than the followers. You probably aren't improving your chances if he makes you look bad because you distracted him. This is one of the cases where prelims/semis vs finals makes a big difference, in the last round, your partner's performance is half your grade. In earlier rounds, it's less.

Corollary to fifth thought - this alone should tell you that hijacking is right out; you need too many things to go right. Syncopating is not without risk. Variations should be safe, but definitely listen carefully to what happens when you try the first one. If partner can't handle it, he probably won't do better on the second.

Sixth thought - keep in mind that, because the judges have to score the entire floor, and you aren't dancing spotlight (yet), that a judge many not have seen your "rock solid basics" yet.

Corollary - the thing you do right after your eye catching syncopation had better be a "rock solid basic".

Seventh thought - I don't think I've ever heard a judge suggest that syncopations/variations will improve your score. In other words, I don't believe it's enough to show you can do them, you also have to show that you can put them in the right place (relative to the music or your dance).

[CALI DOLL]

Dancelf, thank you so much!!! I really appreciate the thoughts!! You've definitely helped me come to a decision. :-)

[Ithink]

I would not hijack in newcomer, especially in the finals, where you're judged as a couple. I wouldn't hijack in newcomer prelims for the mere fact that there is a huge chance your leader will have no clue about how to handle you while you're hijacking. Many novice/intermediate leaders don't know this!

Finally, as a follower you have to be a pretty damn good hijacker to attempt it in competition. A social floor, maybe but in a comp it's totally different!

[d nice]

Here is the summation of my advice as a judge, competitor, promoter, head judge, and social dancer...

Dan ce to your partner and to the music. Let everything else go. If you plan on syncopations or hijacks you are more likely to end up doing something that does not fit what is going on in the music or what is being led. When you get a leader who is a higher level in your competition they will lead space for you to free-style, improvise and syncopate to your hearts desire. When you get one who is unsure... any unexpected movement on your part is likely to throw your partner. It only takes one or two judges see you and your partner totally fall out of a pattern or off beat to have you both written off.

At the newcomer level your best bet is just to dance and have fun. Respond naturally and playfully with your partner and the music. That should do it for you.

[kayak]

I'm sure there are other names, but scissors is like a straight legged lung. As a guy, they work great for accenting a specific spot in the music by extending the pattern a couple of beats.

My experience has been much like Dancelf describes. Eddie the Salsa Freak's description of guys/girls learning curves is dead on. I would guess the guys making finals have been dancing 3-4x more than the ladies at the same level. It is just the nature of the game I guess.

Lots of ladies like the &1 step. I don't think that would go against you. A lot of the advanced ladies I dance with will ask for an extra couple beats and I fill in with sailor shuffles or something like that. My experience is not many ladies, even if they know how, do this in our Novice J&Js. I only have a few comps under my belt for comparison. They always combine Newcomer and Novice around my area.

[CALI DOLL]

Here is the summation of my advice as a judge, competitor, promoter, head judge, and social dancer...

Dan ce to your partner and to the music. Let everything else go. If you plan on syncopations or hijacks you are more likely to end up doing something that does not fit what is going on in the music or what is being led. When you get a leader who is a higher level in your competition they will lead space for you to free-style, improvise and syncopate to your hearts desire. When you get one who is unsure... any unexpected movement on your part is likely to throw your partner. It only takes one or two judges see you and your partner totally fall out of a pattern or off beat to have you both written off.

At the newcomer level your best bet is just to dance and have fun. Respond naturally and playfully with your partner and the music. That should do it for you.

Thank you! What you say makes complete sense. I've got it...and then some. :p

Ithink and Kayak, thanks once again.