Dancing salsa at a studio vs. at a club

[vey]

I was wondering whether anybody else have a similar problem and, if so, how they’re dealing with it.

Although I do have occasional “bad dancing days” at the studio where I’m taking lessons, overall, when I’m dancing there, whether it’s practice or social, I’m doing well: I “know” the floors, I know what shoes work with them, I maintain a positive attitude, I follow well.

On the other hand, when I’m going to clubs, even when I’m dancing with the same leaders, everything feels much more difficult: lead is more difficult to follow, none of my leather-bottom shoes work with the floors (and I do not want to ruin my suede-bottoms), as a result not only my spins, but even regular turns are compromised and, for some reason, I feel more off-balance.... :cry: :cry: :cry:

Any thoughts/advice? :?: :?: :?:

[HothouseSalsero]

Is there a third location you can practice? Maybe somewhere with an okay floor but not one as ideal as what usually exists in a dance studio?

If the floors are really bad enough in the club, maybe you could get together with some other dancers and nicely say something to the club owner or event promoter.

[Jack]

I find the same things in some of the clubs here, " water or liquid spilled on floor" dance floor worn and need of replacement, I go to a lot of Socials within the place co I tale lessons& alchohol'snot allowed and find it more enjoyable, and nothing spilled on the floor.......have fun*

[salsachinita]

I must be one of those odd balls (story of my life :roll: )........!

I suck in a studio/class environment. Lights too bright, people too serious, mirrors everywhere.......atmosphere too sterile. Unless I'm doing rehearsal (which I love) for something, I avoid putting myself there like there's no tomorrow :roll: !

I come alive at a club.......even as a stranger when I visit out of town. Somehow the wild animal instinct in me gets awaken, and my radar activated in search for suitable partners :twisted: .

After years of trial & error, I've found the right kind of street shoes (no more dance shoes.........if Cubanas can dance like goddeses on any surface with any shoes, surely I can at least be comfortable dancing at my local clubs with my street shoes) to cope with the ever-changing condition of the club floors. Now I simply refuse to miss out on dancing just because my shoes & floors are having issues :lol: !

I dance way better at clubs......although I do have off nights like everybody, the good nights tend to outweight the bad ones 8) !

[vey]

Thank you guys!

Lights too bright, people too serious, mirrors everywhere.......atmosphere too sterile. I think I know what you mean, salsachinita, and it's true for me when I dance with "passionate" dancers, i feel more comfortable and free at a club - since at the studio some people tend to give me funny looks afterwards ( talking about sterile atmosphere...)

After years of trial & error, I've found the right kind of street shoes I think the majority of my club dancing problems boil down to this one - shoes and floors feel different and I get distracted by it...And I've heard the same story over and over from all good lady-dancers: they have a pair of favourite trusty street shoes (usually well-worn) that work for them. I guess, I have to start my own street shoe quest.... :wink:

[brujo]

It might be the shoes, it might not.

Some of the studios in my neck of the woods try very hard to create a safety bubble for its students. They have socials, student night outs and other such things where students dance with each other in an atmosphere where leaders are not afraid to ask people to dance, everyone is nice and friendly etc.

But when these same students are thrown into the clubs, everything changes. The same moves don't come naturally anymore because the clubs are more crowded, people are doing different styles ( vs the everyone dances in a slot happily in the studio ), and the attitudes are different, some people are there to pick up, some people won't dance with you, etc. It is more real life.

While the studio bubble might be great for some, in the long run, it creates unrealistic expectations in the students and may stump their dancing development and growth. Most of the better dancers I know have gone through the clubs, being rejected, humiliated and ultimately working through their fears to become a better dancer. Clubs allow you to be exposed to the different personalities of the dance, studios just churn out identical replicas of the dance instructors.

[salsachinita]

Clubs allow you to be exposed to the different personalities of the dance, studios just churn out identical replicas of the dance instructors.

:notworth: :notworth: :notworth: Couldn't have put it better myself....

[borikensalsero]

Missed your posts brujo!!! Nice to see you back.

brujo pretty much cover what I had to say.

I tend to hear the complaint of shoes and floor from many dancers. My one question is, why are we worried about the floor or shoes? If we are, it can only mean that we are not concentrating on our dancing, hence looking for an excuse as to why we aren't really dancing well. Non-sense, concentrate on something other than our dancing all dance long and it the dance will suffer. If we conentrate on our dancing, the shoes nor the floor will be a hinder. Granted there might be things that won't come out as planned or as smooth, etc, but there will be a lot less complains about the floor or shoes and more about how to get it done considering the situation.

adapt + overcome = more enjoyment.

[HothouseSalsero]

My one question is, why are we worried about the floor or shoes? If we are, it can only mean that we are not concentrating on our dancing, hence looking for an excuse as to why we aren't really dancing well. Non-sense, concentrate on something other than our dancing all dance long and it the dance will suffer. If we conentrate on our dancing, the shoes nor the floor will be a hinder. Granted there might be things that won't come out as planned or as smooth, etc, but there will be a lot less complains about the floor or shoes and more about how to get it done considering the situation.

adapt + overcome = more enjoyment.

I don't agree with this, not entirely anyway. A bad combination of floor and shoes can matter. If your shoes grip the floor too much and you try to do a turn, especially quickly, there's a chance that you're going to end up injuring your knee (tearing cartlidge, for instance). I suffered a knee injury (unrelated to dancing) a few years ago, so maybe I'm a little more aware than some posters here that our bodies have their limits. It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned with the risks of trying certain moves (even a basic turn, in some cases) if your shoes are gripping the floor too much. Some floors have holes in them that could conceivably catch the heel of a woman's shoe, leading to a twisted ankle or worse. Even an exessively slippery floor can have its risks (though I tend to think they aren't as serious as those resulting from shoes that grip the floor too much).

But you have a point about adapting to the situation. Even with the worst shoes, on a very bad surface, I could probably do something. So maybe it would be better not to do any turns. I can still try something. (Of course, as a leader, I get to decide what we are going to do. A follower has to deal with the judgments or misjudgments of the lead.)

But even if you do adapt to the situation, that means you have to first acknowledge that the floor or the shoes, or the combination of the two, are less than perfect. That may be done at an unconscious level, but it still has to be noticed and adjusted for.

I wouldn't bother to wear good dance shoes to most places where I dance. I wear a quality dress shoe and it works fine for me. Beer spilt on dance floors and wet bathroom floors annoy me, but that's what I have to work with sometimes.

For women, I would suggest not worrying about wearing high heels, especially spikey ones, unless you are very comfortable in them.

brujo makes some good points though. I take pride in the fact that I have tested what I've learned over and over again by dancing with strangers, beginners, "street dancers," etc.

[borikensalsero]

I don't agree with this, not entirely anyway. A bad combination of floor and shoes can matter. If your shoes grip the floor too much and you try to do a turn, especially quickly, there's a chance that you're going to end up injuring your knee (tearing cartlidge, for instance). I suffered a knee injury (unrelated to dancing) a few years ago, so maybe I'm a little more aware than some posters here that our bodies have their limits. It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned with the risks of trying certain moves (even a basic turn, in some cases) if your shoes are gripping the floor too much. Some floors have holes in them that could conceivably catch the heel of a woman's shoe, leading to a twisted ankle or worse. Even an exessively slippery floor can have its risks (though I tend to think they aren't as serious as those resulting from shoes that grip the floor too much).

Sorry to hear about your injury.

Totally agreed, there are indeed limits on what we can do and how it can be done, hence the adapt and overcome. Further explaining my previous post, the combination of bad shoes and floor matter only when we don't know how to overcome such factors, and dance accordinlgy. They shouldn't affect the skill level/how well a person dances, but rather limit the things that can be done... which is what you alluded to. ...Even if the floor is perfect we have to adjust to the lesser dancer's level. Which means we take into consideration all variables - all excuses aside - and dance to the best those variables allow us. Which can only mean that the person should dance their best minus the few things which need perfect floor conditions.

I see this as the same excuse my friend uses that he can't do his moves with X or Y follower because she isn't that good. Dahhhhhh, ding dong, we've got a winner! Dude how are you going to pull your million moves on a girl who is learning to dance. Same with the floor how are you going to dance on it like you are dancing in a world championship floor? You can't, adjust!!

What gets to me is when we use them as an excuse as to why we can't dance, I don't buy it. For Micheal Jordan to be good all there needs to be is a basket. For Micheal Schumacher to win a race the way, for Maurice Green to win the 100M dash a finish line, for a soldier to defend a confrontation...

All that is ever needed for us to perform at our best given the conditions is the ability to compensate for those things that need compensating. The fact that the floor is messed up shouldn't affect how well I dance, but rather how much, how difficult, to what extent, I do or don't do certain moves.

One of my partners does this regularaly and it drives me nuts because when a great song goes on and she forgets about the shoes, she dances like nobodies business, but as soon as she loses contact with the music or me, she is all excuses and tripping every where. Hmmm, wonder what the difference was, if not compensation.

True that the risk of injuries from the shoes and floor increases dramatically with a bad floor/shoes, those are the chances we take and sadly at times come out on the losing end... But I'll never buy the excuse that a top form dancer can't dance on the same floor I can because of his shoes or the floor conditions. Ahhhhhhhh, join the army they'll teach you to overcome and put up.

If we like to snap and be brisk, then don't. If we like to spin a million times, then don't, if we like to glide our feet, then don't...

[HothouseSalsero]

Sorry to hear about your injury.

I ended up having to stay away from dancing for half a year, which drove me kind of bonkers, but the actual injury wasn't that bad. It took me a while to get an accurate diagnosis. (The first doctor who looked at it wanted to give it time to go away on its own.) I just lost some cartilage in my right knee, but I was able to start dancing again a couple months after surgery.

True that the risk of injuries from the shoes and floor increases dramatically with a bad floor/shoes, those are the chances we take and sadly at times come out on the losing end... But I'll never buy the excuse that a top form dancer can't dance on the same floor I can because of his shoes or the floor conditions. Ahhhhhhhh, join the army they'll teach you to overcome and put up.

I know we have to take some risks in life, but this isn't the army.

[HothouseSalsero]

I have to admit that I've seen my dance teacher dance in just about every possible shoe, on just about ever possible surface, and she's an x-ballerina, but then again she's big-boned for a ballerina. (And actually, talk about risky: ballet can really mess a person up. She survived it without significant injury.)

[borikensalsero]

I know we have to take some risks in life, but this isn't the army.

I'm sorry if I ofended you HotH, didn't mean it in a mocking sense to you or the injury you suffered. Just being a lil sarcastic about the shoe/floor thing, and how the army might help us overcome those changes.

I appologize.

[HothouseSalsero]

I didn't take it personally exactly. (I didn't injure my knee while dancing.) I just think it's possible to buy into thinking one is invincible, and taking unnecessary risks as a result.

[borikensalsero]

I didn't take it personally exactly. (I didn't injure my knee while dancing.) I just think it's possible to buy into thinking one is invincible, and taking unnecessary risks as a result.

Cool... On that same thought, the times I've felt very prone to injury while dancing is when I'm exhausted and still think I can do just about anything (invincibility taking over).

[vey]

Oh, guys, thank you for your feedback!
I’m trying to sum up the points regarding club dancing that I found very useful and applicable for myself:

1. Atmosphere is very different from that of a studio, have to go through some discomfort to get used to it and feel comfortable (Thanks brujo!)
(BTW I’m already well on my way to overcome this one)

2. SHOES/SURFACES - one has to do their best to find a good match in order to dance smoothly and to avoid injuries (thanks salsachinita and HothouseSalsero)
(I still have to find a good shoe/surface match and I suspect it might be different for different clubs I go).

3. Do not use suboptimal dancing conditions as an excuse for poor dancing, just go and adapt, learn and do your best! (Thanks boriken for club-dancing bootcamp!)



Another point: I’ve just realized that at the studio I do quite a bit of spinning thru the turns and sliding thru the steps to cover up my poor balance that results from a lack of proper weight shifting... - hence, when I’m prevented from doing the same at a club (shoe/surface issue)- it becomes much more obvious...

[Jack]

I dance better in the studio/class, I guess because I dance more there by far. We all have a good time there work on things, but the drawback is we dont dance full blast. In the clubs people spill liquids on the floor, and like you said the floors are not that great.
I bought myself some suede from tandy leather company, I glued it on the bottom of a pair of shoes. I can replace when I need to. Try it then you dont have to worry about the expensive shoes .*******

[vey]

Hi Jack!
That's an idea!

I bought myself some suede from tandy leather company, I glued it on the bottom of a pair of shoes. I can replace when I need to. Try it then you dont have to worry about the expensive shoes .*******

Did you get suede over the internet (and if yes, where?)?
Also, what glue did you use?

[Jack]

Vey i got it from tandy leather company, I went online and found a store in my city. I bought chrome suede, now there are different grades thicknesses, so you have to feel it and see what you want. Alos I used a glue that is simliiar as contact cement * Note use this glue only outdoors the fumes are not good. Also a cheap pair of bowling shoes at kmart I bought for 29$ has suede bottoms. They are in the sporting section, so dont look in the shoe dept. I havent been in Salsa/Parner dancing that long so I need all the help I can get, bu the bowling shoes i can spin and turn like a drill... Fred