View Full Version : Ballroom Competition = $$$
tangoking
02-20-2008, 12:53 AM
Hi,
I'm a little frustrated right now. I enjoy competing, particularly in standard, but I'm getting owned in competitions at bronze. The first response is, "get lessons!" The problem is that lessons cost, and I don't have the cash.
What can I do? Learn from DVD's? Watch youtube? Read "The Ballroom Technique" from the ISTD? In my experience there's just no substitute for lessons. My competition is taking lessons from qualified instructors, and it shows on the floor.
Sincerely,
tangoking
Welcome to Dance Forums tangoking! :D
It sounds like you know what you're doing.
You're right . . . there's no substitute for lessons from masters of the craft.
latingal
02-20-2008, 01:03 AM
Welcome to DF tangoking!
Is there a good technique class taught by qualified instructors around you somewhere? Can you join a college ballroom team (they usually bring in top notch instructors)?
chocolatchica
02-20-2008, 01:03 AM
I couldn't tell you what to do because I am having the same issue. :-( Lessons can be very expensive but do a lot of good for your dancing. Hmmm.....I'd like to see what everyones input is on this subject
Laura
02-20-2008, 01:08 AM
What can I do? Learn from DVD's? Watch youtube? Read "The Ballroom Technique" from the ISTD? In my experience there's just no substitute for lessons. My competition is taking lessons from qualified instructors, and it shows on the floor.
I'll tell you one thing: if you do all of the above and take lessons, it will help you get more out of what lessons you do take.
For instance, watching lots of DVDs and YouTube videos of good dancers will help school your eyes as to what the desired result is, so when your teacher goes to explain something to you, you'll have something to connect it to for review purposes. Really knowing your directions, alignments, etc from the ISTD book will save your teacher time on having to repeat it all to you, so your lessons can be more about improving your technique and answering your questions.
Can you take two lessons a month? Can you take one per week? If you can swing that, it will help you.
tangoking
02-20-2008, 01:08 AM
Welcome to DF tangoking!
Is there a good technique class taught by qualified instructors around you somewhere? Can you join a college ballroom team (they usually bring in top notch instructors)?
I actually am on a College Ballroom Team right now, and the coach is strong, but he's only there one night a week and teaches group classes all night.
Laura
02-20-2008, 01:10 AM
Can you get to the studio where your coach teaches during the rest of the week? Since you're on a college team, I assume you have a partner you can split the cost of the lessons with. Also, sometimes the college team coaches give a small discount to members of the teams they coach, did you ask about that?
tangoking
02-20-2008, 01:19 AM
Welcome to Dance Forums tangoking! :Dty!
It sounds like you know what you're doing.8 years dancing, mostly social.
You're right . . . there's no substitute for lessons from masters of the craft.
Yes, that seems to be the case. I can't find any way around it.
I have successfully competed in other sports through determination and dedication--time in the gym, improving my endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, etc.. or working on game skills. For example, in volleyball, I can make significant advances over my competition by jumping higher. To jump higher, I can lose fat, do plyometrics in the gym, develop leg strength, etc..
It is much harder to do this in Ballroom, because I can't devise a solution that works for me. There is a correct way to do these steps. history has shown that judges are not impressed with my version of a hockey stick.
I hate to say it (not a cliché --I really do hate to say this) but I'm starting to think that ballrom competition is for the wealthy.
Sincerely,
tangoking
I will spend my last dollar for some quality instruction.
Larinda McRaven
02-20-2008, 01:34 AM
I will spend my last dollar for some quality instruction.
Makings of a champion.
I was told originally if I had to choose between spending my last $100 on gas for the car and dinner OR coachings... the correct answer was coaching. And I have quite literally been there. That is how champions are found, those with that kind of fierce dedication. Which is why top level competitors go through the "poor starving artist" phase until they break free of it and start to reap the benifits of their hard work, usually many years later.
Larinda McRaven
02-20-2008, 01:38 AM
TK, you are on the team, does the coach offered reduced prices lessons for team members taking privates? Do you split the cost with your partner? Can you get a group of maybe 2 couples to take some lessons and do a "semi-private"?
I have successfully competed in other sports through determination and dedication--time in the gym, improving my endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, etc.. or working on game skills. For example, in volleyball, I can make significant advances over my competition by jumping higher. To jump higher, I can lose fat, do plyometrics in the gym, develop leg strength, etc..
It is much harder to do this in Ballroom, because I can't devise a solution that works for me. There is a correct way to do these steps. history has shown that judges are not impressed with my version of a hockey stick.
BTDT.
The trick is to recognize the differences.
Pick it . . . basketball, volleyball, etc., all tough in their own right, and many of the disciplines carry over. I could watch a basketball/volleyball player do something, I could figure it, and maybe do it better! I used to think that sports were the be all / end all. Now I see how hard dancing is - and how its a forever-learning-process to an ever-expanding-universe of discovery, rather than being able to ace your serve every time.
So many physical endeavors can be learned by imitation, and so many academic endeavors can be learned by studying.
But dancing . . . is it because dancing is more of an art form also?
I hate to say it (not a cliché --I really do hate to say this) but I'm starting to think that ballrom competition is for the wealthy.
This may sound harsh, but yes it costs - to excel competitively.
Pick your goal/goals, but don't expect them to come without sacrifice. You can pick up dancing for little cost, but to be competitve against someone who's sacrificing something for it - - - all other things being equal, my money's on the one who's sacrificing.
I will spend my last dollar for some quality instruction.
Laura
02-20-2008, 01:50 AM
This may sound harsh, but yes it costs - to excel competitively.
Pick your goal/goals, but don't expect them to come without sacrifice. You can pick up dancing for little cost, but to be competitve against someone who's sacrificing something for it - - - all other things being equal, my money's on the one who's sacrificing.
ANY sport, taken to a sufficiently high level, is expensive. Some have lower start-up costs than others. Tangoking has already done the "start-up" part of ballroom, by becoming a social dancer and then joining the college team. The price goes up from here...but there are ways of spending smart with one's money.
ANY sport, taken to a sufficiently high level, is expensive. Some have lower start-up costs than others. Tangoking has already done the "start-up" part of ballroom, by becoming a social dancer and then joining the college team. The price goes up from here...but there are ways of spending smart with one's money.
Right on.
So tangoking said that he had/could get access to a quality instructor.
If tangoking could get one 1 lesson a week and then work the heck out of the lesson with practice throughout the week, augmented by the other items as noted
plus work with other students
a trick would be to build on the most critical foundational elements very well, at first.
ChaChaMama
02-20-2008, 06:35 AM
Another thought: not sure where you live, but a member of this forum (not me) has put together some terrific dance camps which offer the opportunity to take something like 7 classes per day for 5 days with absolutely top coaches for a relatively affordable price. There's one in July in the Washington, DC area and there was one in January in Orlando. I got a TON of information from these classes, much more than I've been able to incorporate into my dancing so far. LOTS of good, solid, basic technique. The camps are particularly on target for syllabus level dancers-pre-champ. There are also opportunities for privates, though as you note, they are pricier.
You might want to look up championshipdancecamps.com
I also try to define my success not solely in terms of how well I do relatively to others, but to how well I do relative to the last time I was out there. I enjoy competing as well, but I have a full-time job, a precocious 5-year-old daughter, and some significant other commitments as well. (And let's not forget page proofs for a chapter of a book coming oh-so-conveniently the week of March 24th, right before USA Dance Nationals...with a tight turn-around time. Grateful it's being published, but the timeline could be better.) My practice time is more limited than I would like at this stage, and obviously that keeps me from progressing at an optimal rate. But I can still try to beat my own last performance.
And I also just try to ENJOY the heck out of it. It's pretty neat to be alive and to have the opportunity to engage in something like a ballroom dance competition. Yes, it's a competition and I want to place well, but I also want to recognize what an incredible luxury it is even to be able to get out there and DANCE in a world where so many people struggle for subsistence, or to exist while war rages around them.
CCM
edited by larinda
fascination
02-20-2008, 06:45 AM
practice
Sagitta
02-20-2008, 07:11 AM
practiceBut it also needs to be the right kind of practice. Just practicing bad form or technique does not make for a better dancer. ;-)
standardgirl
02-20-2008, 08:55 AM
lessons are important, but practicing with a partner is equally important. There have been lots of successful couples (not at the champ level, but advanced syllabus levels for sure) with only limited number of private lessons, but lots of quality practice. Of course, the catch is that you have to have a partner to begin with....
samina
02-20-2008, 09:27 AM
i have regularly taken money out of every non-essential fund (and, often, out of essentials such as groceries) for private instruction... and continue to do so...
when the funds haven't been there -- which is most of the time, as am single mum -- i have sought out every possible way i could continue to evolve as a dancer, pursuing fitness, studying videos, studying body mechanics to sort out personal limitations... talking on DF... ;)
am firm believer that where there's a will there's a way... and even down-time without money can be extremely productive in more oblique ways.
Kitty
02-20-2008, 09:30 AM
Makings of a champion.
I was told originally if I had to choose between spending my last $100 on gas for the car and dinner OR coachings... the correct answer was coaching. And I have quite literally been there. That is how champions are found, those with that kind of fierce dedication. Which is why top level competitors go through the "poor starving artist" phase until they break free of it and start to reap the benifits of their hard work, usually many years later.
definitely done that:-)
and then no money for lunch for a week
elisedance
02-20-2008, 09:45 AM
Makings of a champion.
I was told originally if I had to choose between spending my last $100 on gas for the car and dinner OR coachings... the correct answer was coaching. And I have quite literally been there. That is how champions are found, those with that kind of fierce dedication. Which is why top level competitors go through the "poor starving artist" phase until they break free of it and start to reap the benifits of their hard work, usually many years later.
And what of the middle aged (ahem) dancer who does the same thing - without any hope or aspirations to be a champion?
Actually Larinda, IMO this is true in many if not most careers - early sacrifice combined with dedication and single minded hard work lead to later payoff whether that is playing an instrument, becoming a scientist or working for the poor. By the way, payoff often is not financial but much more valuable assets - freedom to do what you want, peer respect and the opportunity for singular achievement. Hopefully they are combined with at least financial independence (its hard to achive anything in the long term if you are broke...
elisedance
02-20-2008, 09:53 AM
To get back to the original question (:oops:):
Hi,
What can I do? Learn from DVD's? Watch youtube? Read "The Ballroom Technique" from the ISTD? In my experience there's just no substitute for lessons. My competition is taking lessons from qualified instructors, and it shows on the floor.
TK. No money, want to learn?
1. Group lessons - with the best instructor you can find. IT is well worth shopping around - talk to accomplished amateur dancers in your area and get recommendations. The best teachers often have competition experience but the top competitors are not always (and sometimes unlikely) top teachers. In the lesson make it clear that you really want to get it right. The 'squeaky wheel' principle works well in any group teaching environment.
2. Get in the habit of practicing by yourself. You can do that at home, at work, in the elevator (my fave) and in the supermarket. In short anywhere - one of the hardest things to get is posture and that can - and must - be practiced everywhere.
3. Try to find a practice partner. Choose (if you have that luxury) not necessarily the best dancer but the one with the best attitude and with a similar goal. Its amazing how much you can learn if, that is, you can communicate without killing each other!
Other things will help but I have found that videos etc are really most useful when you have the basics in place. There is a danger of learning things totally wrongly when there is no pro to critique your actions - and anything learned wrong is twice as hard to learn right the second time round!
Good luck!
nucat78
02-20-2008, 10:00 AM
While I agree that a practice partner is invaluable, I think you need some kind of concurrent instruction so you're not learning bad things from each other.
I was warming up before class last night doing a quickstep with another inexperienced QS dancer and while we were functional, we were doing a basic thing wrong. It was good that an asst instructor happened to be there and corrected us.
I will spend my last dollar for some quality instruction.
tangoking, what Nik says here highlights that priorities are the key. If your dancing is your #1 priority, then that's where your money will go. If it's not, your money will go somewhere else. It's as simple as that.
I'd like to propose a different line of thinking to you tangoking. In your original post, you said "I don't have the cash." Why not challenge yourself to find a way to create the cash you need, or better yet, a steady source of income that can fund your dance education? At $70 a lesson, you'll spend $300 a month on private lessons. Two ways to create $300/month:
1) Create money/income:
a) What do you do well? Is there some way you can make money doing what you are already doing for free? For the month of March, make it your goal to find SOME way to make $300. Visualize $300, and find a way to put that in your pocket! In the worst case, deliver pizzas, sweep floors, if necessary. Be creative!
b) Have a garage sale, sell an old bike you no longer use, an old computer sitting around your house, or anything else that you do not actively use or need. I had some old books that I just sold on eBay and got $900 for them--unleash the potential of "stuff" lying around that's going unused.
2) Spend less:
Let go of name-brand hygiene and food items.
Don't eat out, period. Can you keep your food spending for the month to less than $150? Challenge yourself. You can still be healthy and spend $5 a day on food.
Are you paying too much for rent to live in a nice place that you don't really need?
How many movies do you rent per month, or go out to see?
Do you need all those minutes on a cell phone, or can you cut them in half?
Do you have magazine subscriptions that you don't use, or some regular fees which you pay that can be eliminated?Basically, how much are you willing to give up in order to further your dancing? How much you spend on other things will indicate your level of commitment to improvement. It's not about being a hermit--it's about being disciplined and living on less than you earn so that you can reach your goals!
SO, your goal is $300. Can you spend $150 less, and find another way to make $150 a month? The answer is of course, YES, you can. The question is, do you want it bad enough to make it happen?
Just ONE small thing to add to the above: with spending or making money, one thing is ESSENTIAL to building wealth, whether you just save that, spend it on dance lessons, or give it all away. And that is, you must keep track of every dollar you make and spend!!
If you don't keep track of expenses, you won't realize that you spent $60 this month on Starbucks ("hey, I only went every other day...?"), or that you ate out 7 times and spent over $150 (VERY easy to do, isn't it?)... and so on.
If you don't keep track of how much you make, you will go into auto-pilot mode, and will find your income stagnant, or worse, declining. Always seek to increase your income every quarter (or so)! What you keep track of will tend to keep your focus, and what you focus on in life tends to increase or expand. So track your income, and watch it grow!
kimV6
02-20-2008, 10:34 AM
i don't know a single college team that doesn't have their bronze level dancers sucking up to their gold/open level dancers for advice. it's free, and we're all looking to pay it forward.
and123
02-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Just make sure that these gold/open level dancers are in fact competent. The propagation of misinformation and bad habits is an ugly thing, and I see it a lot in the collegiate scene (and heard multiple Pros comment on it).
lcdancesport
02-20-2008, 10:41 AM
Great advice Josh, cut back on unnecessary things and you'll have more money to work on something you love to do. When you do take a private lesson, bring a notepad or index cards and write stuff down, then go home and practice it. Did you learn a few patterns? Write them down on individual cards and mix them up and dance those patterns in that order, then mix them up and do it again.
tangoking
02-20-2008, 10:46 AM
Thank you all for your advice. If nothing else I appreciate the willing ear.
Adding to my frustration is the partner. I realize that this is an entirely separate topic, but I must mention it. The team assigns new partners every comp. There are more girls than guys and they want to give all the ladies a chance to dance, so I can understand this decision. The problem is that there is no consistency among partners. In my next comp I (again) have all new partners and I've only practiced with one of them.
I have a comp on Saturday and I'm not looking forward to it. I've been called back 1-2 times at bronze in my last 3 comps. I just keep thinking, "why even bother going? I know where I'm going to finish."
IlyZislin
02-20-2008, 10:57 AM
Hi,
I'm a little frustrated right now. I enjoy competing, particularly in standard, but I'm getting owned in competitions at bronze. The first response is, "get lessons!" The problem is that lessons cost, and I don't have the cash.
What can I do? Learn from DVD's? Watch youtube? Read "The Ballroom Technique" from the ISTD? In my experience there's just no substitute for lessons. My competition is taking lessons from qualified instructors, and it shows on the floor.
Sincerely,
tangoking
Welcome to DF tangoking. There is no replacement for quality instruction, unfortunately :(
I saw suggestions of collegiate teams by others, that is usually a good way to go in terms of saving money. A lot of us still do dance in the collegiate system.
Another idea (and not just a shameless plug) is Championship Dance Camps (either Independence Day Ball or New Year's Day Ball) where you would get enough technique information to last you a while from extremely high caliber instructors for a very good price.
IlyZislin
02-20-2008, 11:07 AM
But it also needs to be the right kind of practice. Just practicing bad form or technique does not make for a better dancer. ;-)
Learning how to practice is extremely important. A lot of the instructors will give you "drill" exercises if you ask them. For example, Polina Pilipenchuk gave a really cool Cha Cha drill for all types of locks and Chasses at IDB a few years ago, and Tim Mason was full of all kinds of standard drills this January. Charlotte Jorgensen gave a basic "close your feet" exercise at ISTD 2005 congress.
I think the trick is sometimes, you have to specifically ask your teachers for those. Or maybe even ask "how would I practice this?"
tangoking
02-20-2008, 11:47 AM
This is clearly a learning experience for me; a "teachable moment" from dancing.
I am a very good social dancer, mostly because I have infinite patience with beginners and know how to have fun. But with comps I've just hit a level where my natural ability is not enough. It is just going to take work to improve.
I think that the biggest adjustment from sports to ballroom is how much styling matters. In sports, style is a bonus. For example, in soccer, it doesn't matter how it looks when the striker kicks the ball; if it crosses the goal line, it's a goal. Not so in ballroom! I'm right on time when I dance, but the styling presents a real challenge to me. I've never really been a performer.
Thanks again for the suggestions. I need to read through this a couple more times and digest the info.
Sincerely,
tangoking
In my next comp I (again) have all new partners and I've only practiced with one of them.
So how much time do you have between when you're assigned a partner and a comp? Surely there's enough time to get some practice in?
I have a comp on Saturday and I'm not looking forward to it. I've been called back 1-2 times at bronze in my last 3 comps. I just keep thinking, "why even bother going? I know where I'm going to finish."
If you already feel like you're not going to place well, don't you think that's going to show in your dancing? Part of the overall look judges look for is your demeanor. If you have any nervousness, or apathy, or "I don't really want to be here" inside your body, it will show on the outside as well, particularly your face. Don't do yourself any more harm by creating a self-fulfilling prophecy here tangoking. Remember the root reasons for wanting to dance and the joy you get from dancing, and go out and have fun. Go perform with your best attitude, and you'll be surprised how well you will do based on that alone.
Charlotte Jorgensen gave a basic "close your feet" exercise at ISTD 2005 congress.
Oh cool, what was that, if you care to share?
IlyZislin
02-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Oh cool, what was that, if you care to share?
Oh boy... trying to explain what Charlotte demonstrated on DF... Basically she had us do a box step but pay a lot of attention on the side step and keeping pressure on the foot that you are stepping away from, and then when you are "dragging it in" making sure you do so by "squeezing" your thighs. Not sure if that made any sense but I tried :)
latingal
02-20-2008, 12:34 PM
tangoking, just to expand on a subject that's been mentioned here by many of our members. Practice is very important. As a pro-am student I do the majority of my practicing alone. If you do find the funds to take some quality instruction, and the pro is amenable, load up on corrections (and make sure you understand the general concepts behind them so you can apply them correctly to different patterns) and information in the few lessons you do take (take lots of notes or even better video the lesson). And then work like a crazy person to make sure you have absorbed the concepts and corrections from the lesson, make every dollar count!
Laura
02-20-2008, 12:45 PM
There's one in July in the Washington, DC area and there was one in January in Orlando.
Also a post-Christmas camp in San Francisco (Holiday Ball and Dance Camp), and one in the summer in Las Vegas (DVIDA).
wyllo
02-20-2008, 12:45 PM
I have a comp on Saturday and I'm not looking forward to it. I've been called back 1-2 times at bronze in my last 3 comps. I just keep thinking, "why even bother going? I know where I'm going to finish."
Results are only a small part of the competition experience. It's about having fun and meeting new dancers and trying something new. It's also about gaining experience and trying to achieve your own personal best in a competition setting (which you really can't duplicate anywhere else).
Great insights - I'm inspired!!
Also, I 2nd (3rd? 4th) the dance camp immersion experience.
Laura
02-20-2008, 12:51 PM
And what of the middle aged (ahem) dancer who does the same thing - without any hope or aspirations to be a champion?
If nothing else one can push their dancing to their own ultimate personal best, and then try to go beyond. If one works toward achieving that, then they are on the path to "become a Champion." If they don't, then there is no chance of achieving anything at all. For the vast majority of us, our end point on this path will be some ways before "Champion," but that doesn't mean that heading down the path is futile.
Tangoking is at the beginning of this path.
Laura
02-20-2008, 12:55 PM
I had some old books that I just sold on eBay and got $900 for them--unleash the potential of "stuff" lying around that's going unused.
Wow, that's great! That's a lot of money! I need to go through all my stuff and start doing that -- it will unclutter my home, too!
kathyt cupcake
02-20-2008, 12:59 PM
Adding to my frustration is the partner. I realize that this is an entirely separate topic, but I must mention it. The team assigns new partners every comp. There are more girls than guys and they want to give all the ladies a chance to dance, so I can understand this decision. The problem is that there is no consistency among partners. In my next comp I (again) have all new partners and I've only practiced with one of them.
Having danced with several partners, you might want to ask whoever you liked dancing with if they want to become regular practice partners. You might also want to see if your team can do the partnership matchups earlier so you have more time to practice.
Our collegiate team has the same girls>>>guys (ratio ~2:1) but has never assigned partners- we have some newcomer girls who have been to 3 or 4 comps who have never had partners- they are stuck dancing TBA and sometimes don't dance because of this. We think it would probably be more equitable to have the newcomer/bronze guys to at least split styles so everyone can be sure to have a partner for at least part of the comp. (I don't have a s/s partner so I'm leading at my next comp. whee!)
Also I agree with everyone's comments on saving/making money, time usage with practice, and practice practice practice. And Ily's dance camps rock (bias- i'm a previous attendee).
Laura
02-20-2008, 01:03 PM
I just keep thinking, "why even bother going? I know where I'm going to finish."
I've been there. I've been dancing and competing for over 10 years, in both amateur (NDCA, USA Dance, collegiate) and Pro/Am competitions. Right now I'm doing Pro/Am. 95% of the time I can tell you where I am going to finish. This used to bother me, but my love of dancing and my enjoyment of competition trumps this and I continue on. I now dance and compete for enjoyment and for the personal satisfaction of seeing improvements. It's not easy, but what can I do? I started dancing in my 30's and while not particularly talented I have a good mind for soaking up information and a stick-to-it attitude. I figure if I just keep working on my dancing, and I keep seeing and feeling improvements, then that's all I have control over and so that's all I can productively worry about.
samina
02-20-2008, 01:17 PM
Wow, that's great! That's a lot of money! I need to go through all my stuff and start doing that -- it will unclutter my home, too!
that's an awesome thing to do. i did just that last summer... had a decent yard sale that raised over $1100. i almost threw the baby out with the bathwater... put my piano & sauna up for sale. so glad afterwards that the potential takers all bailed, lol.
that's an awesome thing to do. i did just that last summer... had a decent yard sale that raised over $1100. i almost threw the baby out with the bathwater... put my piano & sauna up for sale. so glad afterwards that the potential takers all bailed, lol.
good lesson money!
etp777
02-20-2008, 02:21 PM
oooo, ten weeks of lessons. :)
nucat78
02-20-2008, 03:32 PM
that's an awesome thing to do. i did just that last summer... had a decent yard sale that raised over $1100. i almost threw the baby out with the bathwater... put my piano & sauna up for sale. so glad afterwards that the potential takers all bailed, lol.
Hey! Being of almost pure Finnish descent, I'm offended you'd even consider selling your sauna. What next, no lutefisk for New Year's Eve????
elisedance
02-20-2008, 03:35 PM
nucat - then you had better not visit my house - the sauna in the basement makes a fantastic cedar closset... :)
nucat78
02-20-2008, 03:49 PM
nucat - then you had better not visit my house - the sauna in the basement makes a fantastic cedar closset... :)
I'm surrounded by heathens...
cornutt
02-20-2008, 03:56 PM
Hey! Being of almost pure Finnish descent, I'm offended you'd even consider selling your sauna.
Visit Alabama in the summer. Four months' worth of sauna, absolutely free! :p
samina
02-20-2008, 04:07 PM
good lesson money!
Exactament, mon cher.
We forget how things we used to find valuable but no longer use can be translated into support for what want now.
I currently have my thinking cap out to come up with new creative ideas along those lines. Along with most of the dancers here, no doubt. :)
Exactament, mon cher.
We forget how things we used to find valuable but no longer use can be translated into support for what want now.
I currently have my thinking cap out to come up with new creative ideas along those lines. Along with most of the dancers here, no doubt. :)
Yeah, I'm kind of slow . . . at California Open, a pro and I were chatting and he said that he needs a Smooth suit (he had on a vest). I have my previous Aleksandr smooth suit at home for backup, or so I thought backup was a good purpose. He tried on the jacket I was wearing and it fit! But I downplayed it because . . . so I mentioned it to DW and she told me that I should sell it to him because the one I have now would be the backup for my next one :doh: and I didn't even think of such a thing as a next one!
samina
02-20-2008, 04:21 PM
Yeah, I'm kind of slow . . . at California Open, a pro and I were chatting and he said that he needs a Smooth suit (he had on a vest). I have my previous Aleksandr smooth suit at home for backup, or so I thought backup was a good purpose. He tried on the jacket I was wearing and it fit! But I downplayed it because . . . so I mentioned it to DW and she told me that I should sell it to him because the one I have now would be the backup for my next one :doh: and I didn't even think of such a thing as a next one!
Three cheers for DW!!!
chocolatchica
02-20-2008, 06:53 PM
i have regularly taken money out of every non-essential fund (and, often, out of essentials such as groceries) for private instruction... and continue to do so...
when the funds haven't been there -- which is most of the time, as am single mum -- i have sought out every possible way i could continue to evolve as a dancer, pursuing fitness, studying videos, studying body mechanics to sort out personal limitations... talking on DF... ;)
am firm believer that where there's a will there's a way... and even down-time without money can be extremely productive in more oblique ways.
I feel you! Same thing here! Sometimes I cut babysitting funds by taking my son to the study. He doesn't mind now seeing he is 2 almost 3. But when he is older I would imagine he won't be too happy with that. Lol. Where there is a will, there is a way! Anyone wanna be my partner in my new shoe stoning business?? Lol! (Refer to shoe stoning thread if you don't get the joke) :-)
Chris Stratton
02-20-2008, 07:42 PM
TThe team assigns new partners every comp. There are more girls than guys and they want to give all the ladies a chance to dance, so I can understand this decision. The problem is that there is no consistency among partners. In my next comp I (again) have all new partners and I've only practiced with one of them.
This can be a good way to get a team started off, but as you've noticed it limits development in the long run. Most college teams eventually switch over to self-assigned partnerships of (ah, how shall we say, "varaible" duration) for their more experienced dancers - though often still get the benefit of dancing with compatible peers in the team classes, which is a big benefit that's missing in the non-collegiate world.
At any rate, if you ever end up with a temporary partner whose interested in taking private lessons together, and if trying it seems to be a work out, it could be time to simply declare yourselves to be a partnership and not subject to re-assignment. You might get some argument from team officials, but if you're investing money together it's ultimately your right to stick together. Maybe you can stay in the assignment system for some other styles as a compromise.
I have a comp on Saturday
That wouldn't by any chance be Upenn?
amiko
02-20-2008, 07:54 PM
Your are totally right that ballroom is generally for the wealthy. However, being in a status of poverty, compared to everyone else in Los Angeles where the median income is around $75K...there are ways around dishing out tons of cash.
If you are a noob, I believe that up and coming newer professionals, or certain pros who have never competed can still be very good teachers for bronze-gold or pre-novice. They may charge half of what US or World champions are charging.
Back in 2003, I coached with a professional who has never competed, but took lessons from a very well known U.S. Champion, and he helped me and my amateur partner win pre-novice at a major competition.
It's trickle down. If you can't afford to take from a Champion, or expert teacher, take lessons from their students who are pros!! Chances are, you may benefit with the same information and teaching style.
Then when you feel you've outgrow your teacher, you can always move up to someone of higher qualifications/skills/better teaching experience.
Visit Alabama in the summer. Four months' worth of sauna, absolutely free! :p
Yeah, as a girl born and raised in the heat, I just don't understand going in a room that's special just because it's really hot. Special rooms are the ones that got the window unit air conditioner!
Chris Stratton
02-20-2008, 08:11 PM
If you are a noob, I believe that up and coming newer professionals, or certain pros who have never competed can still be very good teachers for bronze-gold or pre-novice. They may charge half of what US or World champions are charging.
Generally speaking, the only way that you will get literally half-price (half US finalist price) lessons from a knowledgeable person is to go to one of the amateur students of a leading teacher. Of course there's risk entailed - not all of them can teach - but at least you know that they are plugged into a source of knowledge (you may also want to work with their teacher directly on occasion). Most comparably plugged-in professionals are going to charge you 75%-80% or more of national finalist rates. Sooner or later you may decide it's simply worth the money to get the best coaching available.
Another way of approaching it: find a teacher who is either competing themselves at a high level, and/or has students competing successfully at the levels you are interested in and beyond. The successful students test is a good way to distinguish between someone who may be retired from competing but knowledgeable, vs someone who never got beyond the fringes of competition dancing - generally it's a lot easier to make sense of than a resume.
amiko
02-21-2008, 01:37 AM
find a teacher who is either competing themselves at a high level, and/or has students competing successfully at the levels you are interested in.
True dat Chris! You are very knowledgeable. Next time I will find a topic to milk your brain. :p
elisedance
02-21-2008, 04:04 AM
The successful students test is a good way to distinguish between someone who may be retired from competing but knowledgeable, vs someone who never got beyond the fringes of competition dancing - generally it's a lot easier to make sense of than a resume.
The caveat being, of course, even if someone has excelled at competition they may yet unable to pass that knowledge on or detect errors in their students - that is they may be lousy teachers.
There are also a few individuals that are simply natural teachers despite a modest competition experience (IMO some experience is essential). While they may not be able to take you to the heights of ballroom brilliance they can certainly get you going along the right path - and often at a relatively modest cost.
What it boils down to is - ask around.
fascination
02-21-2008, 09:17 AM
i have regularly taken money out of every non-essential fund (and, often, out of essentials such as groceries) for private instruction... and continue to do so...
when the funds haven't been there -- which is most of the time, as am single mum -- i have sought out every possible way i could continue to evolve as a dancer, pursuing fitness, studying videos, studying body mechanics to sort out personal limitations... talking on DF... ;)
am firm believer that where there's a will there's a way... and even down-time without money can be extremely productive in more oblique ways.
yep...and there are alot of very bad wealthy dancers......where there is a will there is a way
danceronice
02-21-2008, 05:55 PM
I've floated a credit card bill for dance. I never do that. It's always paid off. But at one point I had to to pay for private lessons. I work three jobs now to try and avoid that. Keeping the thermostat turned down can help, too.
If you can't give up eating out, try to make sure you get two or three meals out of it. I managed to get four dinners out of one Bertucci's entree (for which I also had a gift card, so it was basically free.)
Another Elizabeth
02-21-2008, 07:18 PM
I have successfully competed in other sports through determination and dedication--time in the gym, improving my endurance, stamina, strength, flexibility, etc.. or working on game skills. For example, in volleyball, I can make significant advances over my competition by jumping higher. To jump higher, I can lose fat, do plyometrics in the gym, develop leg strength, etc..
It is much harder to do this in Ballroom, because I can't devise a solution that works for me. There is a correct way to do these steps. history has shown that judges are not impressed with my version of a hockey stick.
You're right that you will need a teacher to help with figuring out how to do a hockey stick, or any other figure. But one thing that can help you be physically able to benefit from the instruction is to hit the gym for a few sport-specific exercises. For standard, I would first do calf raises until you can max out the machine. You can also do non-weighted calf raises with a barre where you rise to the pads (not tips!) of the toes, with the ball of the foot off the floor. Once you can do twenty of those without needing the barre for support (you will probably still need it for balance), start working up to doing them one-footed. (Don't be shy about putting weight on the barre at first, especially for the one-footed ones! You should start out supporting almost half your body weight on your arms at first, and work up to using less and less of the barre for support.)
In addition to these foot and ankle strength exercises, work on the ab/adductor thigh machines until you max those out. (I actually maxed those the first time I went to the gym, after having danced standard for years. It completely freaked out the trainer, since I had just been unable to bench press more than 40 pounds.) Leg presses may also be helpful.
I'm less familiar with which strength training exercises will give you the most bang for your buck in latin, but someone else here can probably help, or you can search for strength training in the archives.
None of these exercises will impart the essential nature of the hockey stick to you. But they may make it easier for you to maintain balance and execute the actions when they are demonstrated.
Oh boy... trying to explain what Charlotte demonstrated on DF... Basically she had us do a box step but pay a lot of attention on the side step and keeping pressure on the foot that you are stepping away from, and then when you are "dragging it in" making sure you do so by "squeezing" your thighs. Not sure if that made any sense but I tried :)
This is often used, though I would have loved to hear her talk about it (used it twice today myself, though not nearly as nicely as Charlotte I am sure!). Thanks for the info!
If nothing else one can push their dancing to their own ultimate personal best, and then try to go beyond. If one works toward achieving that, then they are on the path to "become a Champion." If they don't, then there is no chance of achieving anything at all. For the vast majority of us, our end point on this path will be some ways before "Champion," but that doesn't mean that heading down the path is futile.
Tangoking is at the beginning of this path.
Laura, what a great post! Thank you for affirming a "can do" attitude and getting the "reality" out of the way! I think few words ever hurt our potential so much as the word "realistic."
nucat78
02-22-2008, 09:03 AM
I've floated a credit card bill for dance.
Ouch, ouch, ouch! That is a slippery slope unless you do pay it off monthly. Hits near to my heart because I don't have an extra $220 in the monthly budget right now for a 4 lesson package (singles are $65 each) and my studio just started taking Visa and MC. I started to only carry an AmEx with me so I'm not tempted. I suppose I could do just one or two lessons but $220 for four is "such a deal". ;)
If you can't give up eating out, try to make sure you get two or three meals out of it.
Any kind of eating out adds up fast. Just getting a junk "dinner" from Burger King for my son and me is at least $10 and of course the dog needs his cheeseburger too.
Googling "frugal recipes" has turned up a bunch of good stuff for me. I make a curry lentil soup for about $2 a crockpot full.
samina
02-22-2008, 09:27 AM
I think few words ever hurt our potential so much as the word "realistic."
so true. am happy to report, am decidedly unrealistic, lol...
star_gazer
02-22-2008, 10:02 AM
Any suggestions for inexpensive, healthy eating while traveling? I find that one of the major expenses while traveling for competitions and lessons is food. And it can be hard to find a grocery store. Sometimes I send a couple boxes of Power Bars and fruit leather along but dancers burn alot of calories and it seems like they have to have at least one hot meal a day. Also, is there some secret to eating cheap in England? What's a realistic $ per day for London and Blackpool?
Peaches
02-22-2008, 10:03 AM
I think few words ever hurt our potential so much as the word "realistic."Yup. I refuse to consider reality when it comes to my AT dancing. I love it too much to take that risk.
samina
02-22-2008, 10:17 AM
Any suggestions for inexpensive, healthy eating while traveling? I find that one of the major expenses while traveling for competitions and lessons is food. And it can be hard to find a grocery store. Sometimes I send a couple boxes of Power Bars and fruit leather along but dancers burn alot of calories and it seems like they have to have at least one hot meal a day. Also, is there some secret to eating cheap in England? What's a realistic $ per day for London and Blackpool?
to pack: bring bags of raw nuts & seeds mixed w/ good salt, maybe some dried fruit or chocky bits. that's a good thing to have to nibble on when you're in between good meals. also, good quality chocolate.
fresh fruit is famously portable & easy to pick up.
on the road: soup, soup, and more soup. with a nice roll, cheap, energizing & healthful.
elisedance
02-22-2008, 12:11 PM
I think few words ever hurt our potential so much as the word "realistic."
I agree, 'realistic' (usually) has little to do with art, entertainment or enjoyment. It does, unfortunately, have something to do with competition (as in, you can't enter that you will make an a$$ of yourself, be a little realistic...) :)
etp777
02-22-2008, 12:13 PM
I dont' know what you're talking about, I make an A$$ of myself every time I try to ddance. :)
elisedance
02-22-2008, 12:33 PM
I make an A$$ of myself every time I try to ddance. :)
perhaps the first thing to do is work on ballance.... :p :)
Laura
02-22-2008, 02:04 PM
Also, is there some secret to eating cheap in England? What's a realistic $ per day for London and Blackpool?
Here's what I do:
Marks & Spencer has grocery stores attached to their larger stores, including the one right outside the Winter Gardens in Blackpool. You can get soups, salads, sandwiches, veggies, fruit, everything that you'd want for healthy eating. I got many of my meals there last year. They also have a selection of pre-made meals.
There are Marks & Spencer all over London, too, plus theres' a soup/salad/sandwich chain called "Pret A Manger" there is open for breakfast and lunch. They feature appropriately-sized (not mongo like in the US) sandwiches made with all natural and often organic ingredients. They always have at least two healthy soups made fresh available, and fruit and treats too. I stop at on nearly every day when I'm in London because they are delicious and inexpensive (well, inexpensive for London).
If you want to go out to eat and keep prices low, get Indian food in the UK.
star_gazer
02-22-2008, 02:12 PM
Here's what I do:
Marks & Spencer has grocery stores attached to their larger stores, including the one right outside the Winter Gardens in Blackpool. You can get soups, salads, sandwiches, veggies, fruit, everything that you'd want for healthy eating. I got many of my meals there last year. They also have a selection of pre-made meals.
There are Marks & Spencer all over London, too, plus theres' a soup/salad/sandwich chain called "Pret A Manger" there is open for breakfast and lunch. They feature appropriately-sized (not mongo like in the US) sandwiches made with all natural and often organic ingredients. They always have at least two healthy soups made fresh available, and fruit and treats too. I stop at on nearly every day when I'm in London because they are delicious and inexpensive (well, inexpensive for London).
If you want to go out to eat and keep prices low, get Indian food in the UK.
Great ideas. Thanks.
danceronice
02-22-2008, 05:41 PM
For those who do OSB, I discovered that walking up to the indoor market (I will figure out the name or I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about and can remind me) that has all the different food vendors meant I could get a salad that lasted two days and some produce and deli stuff cheaper than the restaurants in the area. This does work better if your hotel room has a mini fridge, though...
Laura
02-22-2008, 05:43 PM
indoor market (I will figure out the name or I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about and can remind me) that has all the different food vendors
Food court. It's the one downstairs in the convention center, right?
danceronice
02-22-2008, 05:49 PM
Ew, no. They're expensive. (Plus gross food court food.) I mean the place in the Arena district--you have to leave the hotel, walk up towards the Starbucks across from the arena and turn right. It's sort of a permanent version of a farmer's market, but a lot of the vendors also do prepared foods. The vegan place has really good salads.
tanya_the_dancer
02-22-2008, 09:12 PM
I agree, 'realistic' (usually) has little to do with art, entertainment or enjoyment. It does, unfortunately, have something to do with competition (as in, you can't enter that you will make an a$$ of yourself, be a little realistic...) :)
Well, one might want to set realistic goals, though. I've been thinking about it a lot (I am a goal-oriented person) and while it is a nice goal to end up in top 6 someday in an open scholarship at a big comp like Ohio, is it even possible that I can get there?
Well, one might want to set realistic goals, though. I've been thinking about it a lot (I am a goal-oriented person) and while it is a nice goal to end up in top 6 someday in an open scholarship at a big comp like Ohio, is it even possible that I can get there?
Good question Tanya. :D
Some say its right to have an acheivable goal and others say a goal must be slightly above one's reach. Each person has different priorities, different situations, and none of us should place our values on them.
Maybe even if the obvious answer to the question above is "no" for someone (based on today's trajectory), a person might still shoot for that goal - why does a goal have to be seen as acheivable from where we stand today?
Consider setting your goal as written above. But then figure out what it will take to get there - with serious outside help, by someone objective, who knows what it takes. The actions you identify may be painful, but that's the 'realism' one needs - less emphasis on the goal (dream big!) being 'realistic' and more so on the actions required to get there being 'realistic'. In my daily consulting biz, this is often the point where a company decides to "no bid' a project - the actions identified are just too painful. Then maybe reassess your goal - or work the actions.
We can't control the goal - but we can take our actions.
An approach:
Where do we want to be?
What does it take to get there from here?
What is our strategy to get there from here?
What are the resulting actions to implement the strategy?
Take the actions, measure progress, re-assess, etc.These things can require a coach, an outside influence, etc. The resulting actions can be painful:mad:, and it can take extraordinary effort to reach a new plane.
This is one approach - its important to know oneself . . . not everybody wants to do this.
Good Luck! :D
elisedance
02-23-2008, 03:28 AM
Well, one might want to set realistic goals, though. I've been thinking about it a lot (I am a goal-oriented person) and while it is a nice goal to end up in top 6 someday in an open scholarship at a big comp like Ohio, is it even possible that I can get there?
Perhaps it helps to think in two ways - dreams and goals.
Dreams are what we would do if the universe would let us. There are no limits to dreams - we can indulge in them to our hearts content. They serve many functions including identifying where we (think) we would like to be, who with, and what we want to achieve. Achieving a dream can be a heady experience and allow one to establish new dreams - but it can also be a downer with the feeling of 'what now?'.
Goals are (IMO) achievable ends. That is things we can reasonably aspire to - if you like, a goal is a 'realistic' dream - and very much a step towards the realization of one's dreams.
Of course, there is a world out there that changes the ballgame all the time - one of my favorite sayings is: "life is what happens when you are busy making plans". :)
Ew, no. They're expensive. (Plus gross food court food.) I mean the place in the Arena district--you have to leave the hotel, walk up towards the Starbucks across from the arena and turn right. It's sort of a permanent version of a farmer's market, but a lot of the vendors also do prepared foods. The vegan place has really good salads.
I believe it's called North Market? Lots of tasty food--Indian, Moroccan, Thai, pasta, etc., almost anything you could want.
danceronice
02-23-2008, 10:53 AM
I believe it's called North Market? Lots of tasty food--Indian, Moroccan, Thai, pasta, etc., almost anything you could want.
That's the place--and it was great. My only problem was picking what to get. Much cheaper than eating at the hotel or sit-down places, too. The made-to-order pasta was great, and as I said, the salad was enough for the next day's lunch. My only problem was I drastically underestimated how warm a coat to bring and I froze walking over. (And I'm from the midwest, I know better!)
Not that I should eat a lot in the first place, but when I get hungry I get crabby. My pros don't need to deal with that.
chrisjohnston
02-23-2008, 11:18 PM
Here Here
Cheers chris
danceronice
02-23-2008, 11:28 PM
Here Here
Cheers chris
Smarty-pants.
delamusica
02-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Even one quality lesson a month to sort out questions and clarify ideas from your individual practice/study can go miles in terms of keeping your progress on the right path.
Perhaps it helps to think in two ways - dreams and goals.
Dreams are what we would do if the universe would let us.
The point of "dreaming big" and setting big goals is so that you remove your own self-imposed limitations. Saying that the universe won't let you do a particular thing is just another way of setting a self-imposed limitation.
In other words, if you believe in a "dream" category which contains things unreachable for you, then the presence alone of this category will be a "catch-all" for anything you wish to throw in there, whether it be truly unreachable or not. If you try for something and don't achieve it, then it's just as easy to say in retrospect, "oh well, that wasn't really attainable anyway." Then it becomes easier and easier with each difficulty you face in life to throw that goal into the "dream" category. Soon, things which are truly attainable are being dismissed as impossible because you believe in such a thing as "impossible." It's sort of the "sour grapes" of goals, if you will. I'll emphasize that this is just my particular belief, and I don't wish to push this way onto anyone else or you elise--we all have our own beliefs which are useful to us.
elisedance
02-24-2008, 02:37 PM
I think you are reading too much into my phrasing Josh - which I admit could easily be read that way. When I said 'if the universe would let us' it was not a way of saying that the universe will not, my intent was analagous to the 'god be willing' in the islamic tradition or 'knock on wood' in my mothers!
But I do live by a similiar approach to life - which means one inevitably runs into a lot of walls but occasionally you find yourself running out into the open countryside... :)
'god be willing' in the islamic tradition
sounds like 'God willing' in Christian households . . . :D
This interesting topic of goals reminded me of something I had read before called the Stockdale Paradox from the book "Good to Great" - of course, I don't remember all the details written in the book, but as I recall, a difference was noted between optimistic thinking and working diligently toward the goal.
Twilight_Elena
02-24-2008, 06:58 PM
Here's what I do:
Marks & Spencer has grocery stores attached to their larger stores, including the one right outside the Winter Gardens in Blackpool. You can get soups, salads, sandwiches, veggies, fruit, everything that you'd want for healthy eating. I got many of my meals there last year. They also have a selection of pre-made meals.
There are Marks & Spencer all over London, too, plus theres' a soup/salad/sandwich chain called "Pret A Manger" there is open for breakfast and lunch. They feature appropriately-sized (not mongo like in the US) sandwiches made with all natural and often organic ingredients. They always have at least two healthy soups made fresh available, and fruit and treats too. I stop at on nearly every day when I'm in London because they are delicious and inexpensive (well, inexpensive for London).
If you want to go out to eat and keep prices low, get Indian food in the UK.
As a Londoner (and also uni student, so I'm all things low budget!) I'll second Laura. I think London has a thousand healthy choices available for busy peeps. Which, of course, I love. Apart from M&S Food (which is considered to be an expensive alternative) you can get healthy snacks and meals at Boots and Sainsbury's. Tesco probably has some too, but I'm not a Tesco girl so I wouldn't know. Salads, sandwiches, little fruit bags, fruit salads, pasta, sushi... pretty much anything you can think of. I just love this way of thinking they've got in this city, it's all about 5-a-day and low fat, low cal meals for a tight budget.
I think that there are two things that kill my budget: eating out and credit cards.
Eating out includes everything from Starbucks to cheap (or even expensive!) restaurants. Any sort of eating out, in other words, that I didn't need to have done, since I pack my lunch for uni and long dance sessions. Packing my lunch has been very, very helpful. It reduces the temptation of having a "little snack" or "that tall skinny latte" during my uni breaks. I'm liking the Boots Meal Deal right now, because it's affordable and healthy (a salad/sandwich, a drink and a snack for 3 quid, unless I'm mistaken). Also, having my own water bottle has been a life saver, because I drink a LOT of water and I hate having to buy bottled water all the time, it's so horrible expensive!
Credit cards... do I really need to explain? They're evil. And I can keep absolutely no track of how much I've spent (unless of course it gets rejected!).
Cashmere
02-24-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm fairly new here so maybe I don't have a right to say this, but in my opinion I think what Josh said is right. It's about how badly you want it.
Years ago I took flying lessons, I was a good pilot, I said I love to fly to my instructor, my instructor asked me a question, would you crawl over hot rocks to get a lesson? I said no. He said you don't love to fly. He was right.
I love to dance, I know I love to dance because I answered that question that I was asked years ago about flying, yes I woudl crawl for a lesson.
I'm lucky I'm older and I don't have the problem now, my husband is happy to give me the lesson money to make me happy. But I still remember what that instructor asked me and I've applied it many times over to various things.
The point is if you really want something badly enough you will make it happen.
Good luck I hope you get your lessons if you want them badly enough. Good luck with the competition too.
To answer your question what's the point of going? Well maybe you will learn something, maybe you will meet someone who is willing to barter for a lesson? Maybe you will improve your danceing, maybe you will just improve being out there in a comp. There are many reasons for going that I can think of.
good luck
I think you've got a good point here - are you willing to do what it takes to reach a goal?
Credit cards... do I really need to explain? They're evil. And I can keep absolutely no track of how much I've spent (unless of course it gets rejected!).
I haven't used a credit card in over a year. I use a debit card sometimes for convenience, but I find that physically counting paper money to pay for something makes it that much easier for me to say no when I want something, which is actually incredibly rare these days (wanting something I mean).
I pull out a big wad of cash and the cashier often looks at me like I'm a drug dealer or something.. :razz:
Laura
02-24-2008, 10:25 PM
would you crawl over hot rocks to get a lesson? I said no. He said you don't love to fly. He was right.
Well, then, I love nothing. I can't think of a single thing that I'd crawl over hot rocks for. Yay, I'm pathetic!
Well, then, I love nothing. I can't think of a single thing that I'd crawl over hot rocks for. Yay, I'm pathetic!
Depends on how fast you crawl Laura ;-)
I think you are reading too much into my phrasing Josh - which I admit could easily be read that way.
Sorry elise, didn't mean to nitpick, but sometimes one word can make all the difference in my approach to a situation (calling something a "problem" frustrates me--calling it a "challenge" motivates me)
fascination
02-24-2008, 10:34 PM
Well, then, I love nothing. I can't think of a single thing that I'd crawl over hot rocks for. Yay, I'm pathetic!
:rolleyes:or just not as sick as some of us who have talked ourselves into thinking hot rocks are pleasurable
danceronice
02-24-2008, 11:39 PM
Hot rocks are as nothing. I wish I could do something that easy for a lesson.
I find fatigue works well on motating me not to spend money. Do I want to eat a proper sit-down meal between teaching on Sunday, or do I want to eat Subway (why do they give me funny looks? No, I don't want meat or cheese. Just vegetables) and then park at the other rink and sleep for forty-five minutes? Easy choice there. Naptime. (Normally, I'd read. Today, I passed out.)
Well, then, I love nothing. I can't think of a single thing that I'd crawl over hot rocks for. Yay, I'm pathetic!
I think I'm pathetic too. There's "having dreams" and there's stupid and foolish. Now, if I was a yogi...
Inshallah.
elisedance
02-25-2008, 06:38 AM
Well, then, I love nothing. I can't think of a single thing that I'd crawl over hot rocks for. Yay, I'm pathetic!
Au contraire, I think I am always crawling over hot rocks for something. Unfortunately, not usually by choice.... :rolleyes:
Zhena
04-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Bump ...
pygmalion
04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
Wow. We didn't have A thread. We had half a dozen. Zoinks!! Now I see why the mods are so adamant about not starting a new thread on an old subject. Hmm. Can the threads be combined? If that doesn't make sense, can somebody please pick one, so we can continue the conversation?
fascination
04-26-2012, 08:12 PM
well...it is possible that no one really wanted to have a conversation on it...and they merely made two comments as an aside...but, either way, if TC could merge them, that would be great...the last time I tried to merge, all hell broke loose and so I am now banished from that power :)
And that is why it's better to nip things in the bud every time someone tries to start a new thread.
fascination
04-27-2012, 07:06 AM
agree
Lioness
04-29-2012, 12:55 AM
I learned something interesting last comp about the cost of comps in Australia...
Unlike other places, apparently, we're incredibly cheap.
No cost for each event...just a flat fee to enter the venue. For smaller comps, it can be about $20. For larger comps, maybe $50.
One thing we don't get, though, is a lot of prize money. There is prize money for the top events - open, etc. Occasionally, there are gift vouchers for some of the lower level events.
But still, it's fantastic.
pygmalion
04-29-2012, 03:38 AM
Not big on competitions, here, so I may be wrong. Prize money for student dancers in the US doesn't figure into the big bucks. People compete more for the honor of winning than anything. The money doesn't even begin to recoup costs. Correct me if I'm wrong, competitive peeps. :col:
JANATHOME
04-29-2012, 07:31 AM
At syllabus level, no the dollars are not much.
My last comp, not a large comp, I took first place in a pro/am scholorship and won 200, while the cost of the comp for my entries and studio fee was 2,200. The excitement comes from the placement but cash is always nice! Some comps will give vouchers for next years entries instead of cash.
But I am strickly talking pro/am. Previously dancing AM/AM I can say it is considerably less expensive.
ajiboyet
04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
People compete more for the honor of winning than anything.
I think every competitive dancer should know how to savor his wins.
GGinrhinestones
04-29-2012, 06:20 PM
At syllabus level, no the dollars are not much.
My last comp, not a large comp, I took first place in a pro/am scholorship and won 200, while the cost of the comp for my entries and studio fee was 2,200. The excitement comes from the placement but cash is always nice! Some comps will give vouchers for next years entries instead of cash.
But I am strickly talking pro/am. Previously dancing AM/AM I can say it is considerably less expensive.
Yep, in pro/am, you're doing well if you earn enough back in the scholarship to cover the cost of...dancing in the scholarship. It's nice, but no one (the student half, mind you) dances pro/am to make a profit or even break even - unless they don't have the slightest understanding of money.
pygmalion
04-29-2012, 07:37 PM
Yep, in pro/am, you're doing well if you earn enough back in the scholarship to cover the cost of...dancing in the scholarship. It's nice, but no one (the student half, mind you) dances pro/am to make a profit or even break even - unless they don't have the slightest understanding of money.
Hehe! :lol:
toothlesstiger
04-29-2012, 10:46 PM
I learned something interesting last comp about the cost of comps in Australia...
Unlike other places, apparently, we're incredibly cheap.
No cost for each event...just a flat fee to enter the venue. For smaller comps, it can be about $20. For larger comps, maybe $50.
One thing we don't get, though, is a lot of prize money. There is prize money for the top events - open, etc. Occasionally, there are gift vouchers for some of the lower level events.
But still, it's fantastic.
In the comps I've been to, Am-Am is a flat fee, and includes standing room admission to the event. Pro-Am, you pay per dance, and there is a minimum number of individual events you have to sign up for to dance in a scholarship event.
Even winning pros are pretty much just going to defray the cost of competing with their prize money. Placing well means they get more students, get invited to do shows, seminars, guest coach gigs, and may be able to charge more per lesson. That is where the money is.
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