Formal Balls -- a Thing of the Past?

[pygmalion]

In my web searches today, I found an organization, waltzballs.org, whose stated puspose is to help provide information on how to organize formal Viennese waltz balls, similar to those held in the eighteenth century. Actually, I was a bit surprised. Other than an occasional debutante ball for the wealthy (or wannabes LOL), I haven't seen much, if any mention of old fashioned, formal balls. I was under the impression that ballroom was either relatively informal social dance, or competition dance. But formal balls? A thing of the past, I thought.

Anyone have experience with or exposure to these balls?

www.waltzballs.org

[etchuck]

Actually, I was a bit surprised. Other than an occasional debutante ball for the wealthy (or wannabes LOL), I haven't seen much, if any mention of old fashioned, formal balls. I was under the impression that ballroom was either relatively informal social dance, or competition dance. But formal balls? A thing of the past, I thought.

Anyone have experience with or exposure to these balls?
www.waltzballs.org

Yeah, that's one of my favorite sites because I like Viennese waltz a lot, and it provides a lot of info about how one learns basic steps in VW.

You can also check out the Triangle Vintage Dance pictures I have on my photo website (see sig file). There are a lot of pre-ballroom "vintage dances" run around the east coast at least, the most famous being at Newport, RI (at least according to what I hear from the small circle of people who go there from here).

Duke Wind Symphony will organize the 30th anniversary Viennese Ball, hopefully with our ballroom dance club's assistance. It appeared to go pretty well last year. In general what is played are VW and polka, but we also have more of the social courtly dances contemporary to the time. During the breaks in the band last year, I put on some more ballroom music that fits the times ("standard"-speed VW, standard regular waltz, and foxtrot). I may put in more proper ballroom music but it depends.

[tsb]

In my web searches today, I found an organization, waltzballs.org, whose stated puspose is to help provide information on how to organize formal Viennese waltz balls, similar to those held in the eighteenth century. Actually, I was a bit surprised. Other than an occasional debutante ball for the wealthy (or wannabes LOL), I haven't seen much, if any mention of old fashioned, formal balls. I was under the impression that ballroom was either relatively informal social dance, or competition dance. But formal balls? A thing of the past, I thought.

Anyone have experience with or exposure to these balls?

www.waltzballs.org

not exactly as this guy seems to think they exist, but i'm going to one this saturday.

http://www.lahacal.org/sdi.html

and in general the events i attend are attempts to recreate an experience during a given historical period so the dances (& the footwork for those serious enough to learn them) will be historical; there is no modern equivalent for a schottische, mazurka, redowa or varsouvienne, etc. while there is no reason one couldn't perform a modern viennese waltz step during a waltz, it's customary to do a rotary step common to the victorian & english regency periods. besides, the modern viennese step is impractical for anyone in a period hoop skirt!

[pygmalion]

Oh! Now I'm curious. How did historical Viennese waltz differ from what we learn these days?

[dancin_feet]

Not sure what you mean by "formal old fashioned" balls, but our studio hosts a formal ball twice a year. Students are presented with trophies and awards for the achievements they have made over the previous six months, and there are also showcase presentations put together and presented on the night.

Something that everyone at the studio looks forward to.

[tsb]

Oh! Now I'm curious. How did historical Viennese waltz differ from what we learn these days?

etchuck probably is familiar with this step also. it's aptly described as a rotary waltz and fairly simple to learn.

you start in a closed position closer to a swing closed position than a traditional ballroom closed position except bodies more parallel than a 'V', leaders right hand slightly lower and more towards the middle of the followers body, leaders left hand holding followers right down low (almost as if you were helping her hold up her gown - minimal connection and almost no lead through that arm) followers facing more of less down the line of dance, leaders looking up the line of dance,

1) left foot backwards down the line of dance (yes, leaders are looking up the line of dance but everyone follows LOD);
2) pivot on left foot 90 degrees clockwise and step sideways down the line of dance
3) pivot on right foot 90 degrees and bring left foot to a close shifting weight onto left foot;

leaders should now be looking down LOD & followers have backs to LOD

4) right foot forward down LOD
5) pivot on right foot 90 degrees clockwise stepping sideways down LOD with left foot
6) pivoting on left foot another 90 degrees and closing with right;

i just assisted teaching a rotary waltz class this past saturday & the difficulties i saw most were:
- not being connected (a sense of leaning back into the arm of your partner);
- not opening up enough on count 2) to help your partner step through vs. past you - if you don't open up before they place their foot for their step 5) they'll never get around in time to be in position for step 1).
- not stepping into your partner on step 4) but trying to step around;
- while centripetal force influences the rotation the force should remain constant throughout the 6 counts vs. feeling two strong pulses three counts apart;

another historical note is that dancers didn't spot, but instead stared at their partner. oddly enough, people don't collide & the effect is pretty cool when done correctly. you do get a serious case of the spins afterwards - but that usually means your partner holds on to you more tightly for a few more seconds while she reestablishes her equilibrium!

while i enjoy vintage dance events, i think i just like having a reason to wear tails![/i]

[JohnK]

I've not seen formal dances in this area dedicated to the Viennese Waltz, but once I started looking, I've been surprised by the number of black tie affairs available to us mere mortals. Seems to be all the usual suspects: Christmas, New Year, Valentines Day, "Spring", Independence Day, "Fall", Halloween, etc. I think a period-correct Viennese Ball would be tough to fill, since the V.Waltz is not an entry level dance to begin with.

[etchuck]

Oh! Now I'm curious. How did historical Viennese waltz differ from what we learn these days?

Cool!!! They do Vintage Dancing out in Pasadena? I forwarded the link to my former dance partner who went with me to last year's Victorian Country Ball in NC who lives out there. Maybe if I visit out west... (while visiting my siblings [who don't dance] and her...).

Anyway, locally we're here : http://www.trianglevintagedance.com/ .

They may describe a bit about cross-step waltz. I agree that Viennese steps in hoop skirts is rather difficult. Cross-step waltz is a bit different because there is a hook step in order for one to do a reverse turn rather than the cross that one is familiar with in a reverse turn. I still dance VW, but on occasion I will do cross-step waltz if my partner is not as familiar with it. You don't travel so far down the line of dance, but it's still fairly fun.

The person who is really devoted to Vintage dancing here does monthly dances and often holds workshops in vintage dances and waltzes (pre-ballroom).

But it is interesting to dance in an environment that isn't so competitive and is very welcoming to beginners.

[tsb]

Oh! Now I'm curious. How did historical Viennese waltz differ from what we learn these days?

Cool!!! They do Vintage Dancing out in Pasadena? I forwarded the link to my former dance partner who went with me to last year's Victorian Country Ball in NC who lives out there. Maybe if I visit out west... (while visiting my siblings [who don't dance] and her...).

if you do come out, we're having a vintage week in claremont this summer

http://www.lahacal.org/sandiego/danceweek.html

it's the week after waltz week at stanford.

there's much more of a vintage dance following up in the bay area (natural since richard powers is up there at stanford). i've learned the mazurka & redowa, etc. but sadly, i'm probably one of 20 people in s. cal who know it so i might not get a chance to do any of them in a 12 month period. i recently met someone who danced in the troupe at stanford for 3 years so i'm hoping to do some stuff with her.


They may describe a bit about cross-step waltz. I agree that Viennese steps in hoop skirts is rather difficult. Cross-step waltz is a bit different because there is a hook step in order for one to do a reverse turn rather than the cross that one is familiar with in a reverse turn. I still dance VW, but on occasion I will do cross-step waltz if my partner is not as familiar with it. You don't travel so far down the line of dance, but it's still fairly fun.



crosstep (with a full turning basic) is hard to do at faster tempos.


The person who is really devoted to Vintage dancing here does monthly dances and often holds workshops in vintage dances and waltzes (pre-ballroom).

But it is interesting to dance in an environment that isn't so competitive and is very welcoming to beginners.

the SDI ball is that way. we offer a lesson in the set dances the sunday before the ball. the majority of the people there are not skilled dancers, but some of the ladies spend months on their dresses.

[BayAreaBallroomLady]

The town of Elk Grove, California hosts a "Strauss Festival" every year. I believe the local folk spend the whole year getting ready.http://www.straussfestival.com/about.html

Just thought someone might be interested....

[pygmalion]

Thanks, BayAreaBallroomLady. Just goes to show how much I have to learn. I didn't realize this whole vintage ballroom dance thing was so popular. Hmm.

[pygmalion]

They may describe a bit about cross-step waltz. I agree that Viennese steps in hoop skirts is rather difficult. Cross-step waltz is a bit different because there is a hook step in order for one to do a reverse turn rather than the cross that one is familiar with in a reverse turn. I still dance VW, but on occasion I will do cross-step waltz if my partner is not as familiar with it. You don't travel so far down the line of dance, but it's still fairly fun.

Oh. So the dance form evolved as fashions changed and became more forgiving. Hmm.

[tsb]

They may describe a bit about cross-step waltz. I agree that Viennese steps in hoop skirts is rather difficult. Cross-step waltz is a bit different because there is a hook step in order for one to do a reverse turn rather than the cross that one is familiar with in a reverse turn. I still dance VW, but on occasion I will do cross-step waltz if my partner is not as familiar with it. You don't travel so far down the line of dance, but it's still fairly fun.

Oh. So the dance form evolved as fashions changed and became more forgiving. Hmm.

the change in society values had as much influence, i think. the ragtime period became much wilder due to factors such as a response to the repressiveness of the victorian period (which affected clothing). but IIRC the style of the waltz during the english regency period (think jane austen) became more sedate.

[pygmalion]

Yup. I wondered about the underlying societal values. The clothing was probably as much a reflection of society's calues as it was a causative factor. The two are interconnected.

[dnquark]

Anyone have experience with or exposure to these balls?


To answer the question in the original post: since 1998 Stanford's annual Viennese Ball has been held off-campus, in the ballrooms of the area hotels. It was quite a grand affair, with many people dressing to the nines. There would be a live waltz band and a live swing band, performances by Stanford dance groups, a waltz contest...

One feels transplanted into the world of Pushkin's Eugene Onegin [or, I suppose, one's fav. literature description of a ball]. At the same time, it's all very real: it's a modern event, with its own tradition. You aren't just dressing up and role-playing like those weirdos from the society for creative anachronism :) .

Sadly, an upscale event like this is prohibitively expensive to run. It is utterly impossible to fund by ticket sales alone (even at $70 per couple), and after this year the Viennese Ball committee is losing a significant proportion of its funding. It's a part of an unfortunate trend: the dance scene on campus, while more vibrant than I've seen anywhere else, is past its peak. So, this year's ball might have been the last true Viennese Ball. The event will likely persevere, but no on-campus venue can create the same kind of atmosphere. Well -- what can you do. Somehow the realities of today - raw capitalism, corporate culture, faux egalitarianism - don't seem to provide the best environment for Viennese Balls.

Oh yeah, and also in the Bay Area there are semi-formal Gaskell's balls (http://www.gaskellball.com/) - although I never had a chance to check one out.

[delamusica]

Twice a year in Fort Collins, Colorado, there are some fairly large formal balls - ballgowns, tuxes, and a big live orchestra playing Vienese Waltzes all night long! It's great - put on by a group called "friends of traditional dance," and ballroom ppl from all over the state show up. So much fun! The floor is usually very crowded, but the atmosphere makes up for it since most of us don't get to attend that sort of thing very often.

[tsb]

Anyone have experience with or exposure to these balls?


To answer the question in the original post: since 1998 Stanford's annual Viennese Ball has been held off-campus, in the ballrooms of the area hotels. It was quite a grand affair, with many people dressing to the nines. There would be a live waltz band and a live swing band, performances by Stanford dance groups, a waltz contest...



a friend of mine went up to the bay area for that. he said he & his date had a blast!

[Hespera]

Sorry, I am entering this thread rather late (OK, very late), but I just wanted to chime in. I love formal balls (where I am from, Southern Germany/Austria) the ball culture is still very much alive.

I now live in Washington, D.C., and even here, there are several formal balls per year.

The International Club of Washington, D.C. hosts at least two formals balls per year. The venues are usually gorgeous - crystal chandeliers, marble staircases, etc.

Also, each February there is a Viennese Waltz ball at the Organization of American States. It's expensive, but worth it if you love Viennese Waltz.

In November, there is traditionally a ball at the Cosmos Club (full evening dress for gentlemen including silk top hats, white gloves, etc., married ladies wear tiaras, opera gloves and ball gowns) which is very elegant. It even includes a debutante cottillion.

If you want a truly glamorous ball though, you might want to take a trip to Vienna, Austria. they have some of the greatest balls, including the Vienna Opera Ball, the Military Officers' Ball, the Rudolfina Redoute, etc. Many still require full evening dress (i.e., white tie and tail suit) and are held at castles and palaces. It's one of the greatest feelings ever to dance at one of those balls!:D

[Joe]

Well I'm upper upper class high society
God's gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom
The event is never small
The social pages say I've got
The biggest balls of all

Nod to AC/DC. ;)

[cantskiforlife]

I know of an old-fashioned waltz ball in the boston area (Nehant actually). A couple years ago a group of us attended an event there. I believe they do them every summer.

[DennisBeach]

Other than University of Wisconsin Eau Claire's annual Viennese Ball, Wisconsin area does not have old style Viennese balls. Dance clubs and some promoters do have formal ballroom dances, with the normal mix of all the ballroom dances. We also have a few formal big band events and adult proms, which are formal affairs. New years Eve is our big day for formal dances.

Most of the social ballroom dancing here is casual attire.

[tsb]

there's a dickens festival every year in riverside (about an hour's drive from me) which includes a victorian ball. i suspect any sort of dicken's festival would include such an event - and would give one another term to google in an effort to locate something nearby.

[Spitfire]

I've never attended since the cost is high, but in Phoenix there's what's known as the Black Tie ball held annually which is very formal.