Salsa Turns

[cubanita]

:?: How does a woman do multiple turns and still keep the beat? Especially without getting dizzy? :(

[DanceMentor]

If you want the short answer...lots of practice. :lol:
I will add that you are likely to build up a tolerance for turning as your dance addiction increases.

What I think you really want are some tips on turning.
I would recommend this thread:
http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=183

Welcome to the Forums! We are always happy to help. :D

[SDsalsaguy]

:?: How does a woman do multiple turns and still keep the beat? Especially without getting dizzy? :(
Hi cubanita, and welcome to the forums!

In addition to the thread in question let me just add that "keeping the beat" in this instance isn't the same thing as turning on the beats -- it means coming out of the turns on beat and on balance to continue dancing on the beat.

Hope that helps.

--Jonathan

[salsarhythms]

Hi Cubanita, and welcome...

I could not agree more with SD that was excellent advice.

My advice to you would be this:

Get Edie's Videos. She is an excellent teacher!!

[MissAlyssa]

Learn to spot!!! Also, like SD said, you need to come out of the turns on a specific beat. First learn to do one turn and gradually add another and another until you get the hang of it. Also watch Edie's vids, she knows her salsa!!

[pygmalion]

Yes to all that's been said, and this. The big leap is from one turn to two. After that, adding multiple turn is a piece of cake. Also, slow down, when you're practicing, until you teach your body the proper movements. Once the proper technique for turning is in your muscle memory, you can speed it up.

[borikensalsero]

:?: How does a woman do multiple turns and still keep the beat? Especially without getting dizzy? :(


tatata ta ta... Well, if you are dancing with someone who knows the beat, your worries of coming out on beat will be less. Why, becuase he will only stop your multiple spins at the correct beat, which means he is the one worrying about the beat, and not you. I always tell new dancers that if one person is doing a shine routine the other person has to keep beat while the shine routine is going. Like that the newbie will have a lot easier time coming out on beat, just by looking at where the other partner is. Help each other while you dance.

Of course, when you become good you won't have any problems with spining and keeping the beat, but while you are learning. If you get out of multiple spins off beat, blame the dude.. :shock: If you've noticed when a guy is doing multiple spins to a lady usually his feet keep hitting the necessary beats. He is keeping beat for both of you.

The dizzy part is solved by spotting...

[pygmalion]

Does anyone else have input on salsa spins?

[borikensalsero]

Does anyone else have input on salsa spins?

Keep back straight, whip shoulders around fast, the faster you whip the shoulders the faster you'll spin, bend your kness, stay on the ball of your feet, keep elbow at around 90 degree angle in front of your face, don't use the guy for leverage, nor for balance.... and... don't over do it, too much of anything is too much...

[pygmalion]

Thanks, boriken. This is good stuff. Right now, I'm stuck at the shoulder thing. My wholr torso still want to spin together, rather than letting the shoulders lead. Hmm. Not sure what to do about that, except slow way down and practice the spins shoulder,then hip, then spot. Hmm. I hope that description makes sense. *shrug*

[borikensalsero]

Thanks, boriken. This is good stuff. Right now, I'm stuck at the shoulder thing. My wholr torso still want to spin together, rather than letting the shoulders lead. Hmm. Not sure what to do about that, except slow way down and practice the spins shoulder,then hip, then spot. Hmm. I hope that description makes sense. *shrug*

Hi pygmalion, you can spin using the torso. We all spin using the torso, whether we know the extent of its involvement is another token... Some actually think it is the feet that do the spining, but hey if you can manage to spin with your feet, feat accomplished, next step is to do less work using the torso/shoulders. The power really comes from the torso...

I found it to be easier to tell people to spin whipping the shoulders around because when I get into the torso they look at me with wierd eyes... :?: The ones we used to give our professors in college... What, what did he say? I think he is crazy! No wonder no one takes his classes! So it is easier to say whip the shoulders aroud fast than whip the shoulders using the torso... But you'll accomplish the same; spins. Once you are aware of the torso you can feel how it is involved in everything you do, makes sense, after all, the shoulders are attached to the torso... :D

Pygmalion, have you ever tried dancing using the torso to lead body movements? I think you would enjoy the simple difference once in a while, if not benefit from it... Meaning that everything you want to do comes from the stomach area, I.E. when walking forward mentally and physically feel it as if your stomach area took a step forward, forget about the feet and have the body lead the feet around the floor and see how they respond. Same when you jump, the legs give you thrust as the stomach goes up, helps your jumping too... Maybe one day you'll want to give up dancing and take on the NBA... Just a little difference to spice up body movements as opposed to feet :D :D

[mellody43]

For me it was about applying two techniques:

spotting (during the turns) -- I do very soft spots so I don't look like a ballerina =)

stopping the turn and being ready to step back on the right foot

Once those two things clicked together, I GOT it. Practice to slightly slower songs, maybe cumbias, til you feel more comfortable.

[Sonia in Aalborg]

Hi! I've been browsing through various threads and this one caught my eye coz, being a beginner, I have a problem with spins too. A very basic question now-what in the world is spotting??? :shock: It seems like it's important to get the spins right and I really want to practise because I sometimes tag along to the intermediate class where they practise a new intricate step for about 45 mins-one that involves a lot of spins.....don't think I'm crazy, but the first time I felt like throwing up! :cry: :oops:

[squirrel]

Hmmm... you'll go on getting dizzy... can't help it until you've learned proper technique...

[Danoo]

well for a double spin the guy should spin her on 4 and 6 then the woman can keep the beat...

[Sagitta]

Okay spotting involves the following...In this simple explanation the concept is that you are focusing on something. When you focus on something you don't get disorientated.

As you turn around you keep your head in it's original position facing the leader, until you cannot turn anymore, then you let your head whip around to the new position so you can continue turning. I like the idea of spotting the leader as I think that when partner dancing you dance with your partner. This is the most that I can think of at the moment as I think I'm a little heavy headed...coming down with something!! :(

[Lucretia]

Cubanita, Sonia and other dizzy ones!

When you have the right spotting technique – you will not get dizzy. I guess this is one of the reasons you do the spins this way. :wink: Perhaps there are more reasons that I'm not aware of.

Anyhow … in early age when I was dancing classical ballet the spotting helped me to stay on the spot spinning without feeling dizzy. In my "new" salsalife I havn't started spinning more than one/two spins at the same time. I've got more problems with my feet who always are in the wrong position.

/Lucretia

[Lucretia]

I forgot…
It´s much easier to spin in a shoe with some kind of “high heel” (in my case 2 centimeters :wink: ). Ordinary (sport) shoes have to much of friction against the floor.

(I hope you understand what I mean … English is not my native language. You are welcome to correct my English any time).

Try some kind of jazz shoe or dance sneakers (bought in a dance shop) if you prefer no high heels. Or any kind of shoe with suede (?) against the floor.

You might even hurt your knees when the body spins but not the feet (who are 360 degrees after beacause of wrong shoes).

/Lucretia

[etchuck]

Suggestion to moderator: we definitely need a sticky on spinning.

[borikensalsero]

Suggestion to moderator: we definitely need a sticky on spinning.

SPINTICKY :tongue:

Indeed a good idea...

[Sonia in Aalborg]

Thanks for the spotting tip. I should try practising but also need to get a pair of dance sneakers coz I already have a left knee problem and last night I felt little twinges here and there :( I don't think I could dance in heels-not yet atleast-too much strain on my knee. :(

[MacMoto]

Thanks for the spotting tip. I should try practising but also need to get a pair of dance sneakers coz I already have a left knee problem and last night I felt little twinges here and there :( I don't think I could dance in heels-not yet atleast-too much strain on my knee. :(
Lucretia's advice is good. DO NOT practise spins in rubber-soled shoes or sneakers. The rubber has too much grip and works as a brake! Dance sneakers have smooth "spin spots", so when you are on the balls of you feet they allow you to spin. Even when you are not spinning, you do a lot of steps involving pivoting, which you can do properly if you wear standard rubber soles. If you have leather or hard plastic soled shoes (i.e., shoes that are too slippy for walking on wet pavement :lol:), wear those until you get a pair of proper dance footwear.

[MacMoto]

Useful links about practising spins from Edie the Salsafreak's website -- I meant to post them yesterday but couldn't access the site.

Tips for Executing "Posture Perfect" Double Turns and Spins (http://www.dancefreak.com/stories/posture.htm)
Spins… Edie, How Do You Spin so Long, and So Fast? (http://www.dancefreak.com/stories/spins.htm)

Her "famous spins video" basically gives you the same tips as these articles, but I think it's still worth buying if you have problems with spins -having a visual helps.

[Lucretia]

Excuse me for being a medical/technical shoe freak!
But when we already are in this spin/shoe discussion I want to give my own very expensive (in at least two ways) knowledge.

I have since many years had problem with inflammation in the fascia surrounding the muscles in front of the shinbone (tibia). This is caused by something called pronation (runners very often have the same symptom). The ankle joint is sliding inwards when I take the step. The pain has stopped med dancing for three years. But last year I got better and started salsa dancing.

I bought a pair of dance sneakers without realizing who instable they are. There is nothing but leather/fabric between the front part and the heel part of the sole. They are a nightmare for this kind of medical problem. They don’t provide enough of support to stop the pronation.

The cost of the dance sneaker was 100$ and I can hardly use them. I use them for exercising the muscles in the middle of the foot. I believe the pronation will be reduced if I strengthen up these muscles. But I never use them for more than an hour at a time.

Then I was allowed to borrow an excellent “high-heel” shoe from a shop. I tried it at home in the living room. It is marvelous. The shoes are almost as stable as runner shoes made for pronators. The legs never hurt when I use theses shoes. They are much easier to spin and they are elegant. I bought them too …150$ more.

The heel isn’t higher than the heel of the dance sneakers (so girls, don’t be afraid if you are unused dancing with high heels).

The funny thing is that this shoe is built for pivoting (I guess this means stepping up on the front part of the foot when the heel doesn’t touch the floor) but it is stable and doesn’t allow my ankle joint to slide inwards. It’s a miracle!

What did I really meant by writing this…
Allow yourself the best shoe in town and ask the salesperson about how the shoe works. But very often they know much less than yourself. So be sure of your own requirements. Don't let them fool you.
If you’re allowed…buy the shoe… try it at home…give it back to the shop if it doesn’t work.
If you have the same problem as I remember the pain doesn’t always start the same evening and sometimes not until two days after. So be patient before you make your decision.

Good shoes are an investment for life!

/Lucretia

[Sonia in Aalborg]

Hi Lucretia!
Thanks for that post. I haven't had your kind of ankle/shin problem except for the occasional shin pain when I run on asphalt.

I really feel like I have to stop dancing in ordinary sneakers but am rather sceptical about where I'm going to find decent dance sneakers/heels in Aalborg - don't know if it's wise to order shoes over the Net esp since I have to try them on to check if my knee okays them! I found this online Scandinavian dancegym store but don't know if they're worth it. Sneakers are quite expensive-from 500 to 900 kr :( Will have to save up being a student and all! But you're right-good shoes Are an investment for life :)

[MacMoto]

I bought a pair of dance sneakers without realizing who instable they are. There is nothing but leather/fabric between the front part and the heel part of the sole. They are a nightmare for this kind of medical problem. They don’t provide enough of support to stop the pronation.

The cost of the dance sneaker was 100$ and I can hardly use them. I use them for exercising the muscles in the middle of the foot. I believe the pronation will be reduced if I strengthen up these muscles. But I never use them for more than an hour at a time.

Funny you mention this Lucretia, as there was a recent discussion on the Salsaholics (http://www.salsaholics.co.uk) site about dance sneakers, and a Cuban style teacher said basically the same thing about dance sneakers -- i.e., no arch support = bad for your feet/legs.
This is what he says:

These dance trainers are designed more for contemporary or jazz dancers who need to go onto pointe. Check out the following link: w w w.capeziorvc.com then click on their “dancesneaker” section. You will find that at least half of the pictures are of people going on “pointe” i.e. standing on their toes. How many people do that in Salsa – NONE! Look at a ballet shoe, it is an instrument of torture and destroys the feet of ballet dancers.
In order to let people go onto pointe, these dance trainers have a fabric midsection between the plastic heel and toe sections. This allows the shoe to be bent completely back on itself which is great if you want to go onto pointe. It is tragic if you want to be able to walk when you are fifty though. Ask a podiatrist. Any shoe that bends at the ball should be discarded because it does not provide enough support to your feet. This means that excessive force is placed on the Plantar Fascia, basically the connective tissue at the bottom of your feet that stretches between your heel and your toes. If you dance a lot then these trainers will increase the chances of your developing a condition called Plantar Fasciitis. This is an RSI type of injury that results in calcium deposits on your heels, a lot of pain and can take a year to get rid of.
Honestly, I dance a lot and I used to wear those trainers and I have developed Plantar Fasciitis. The footwear we choose is very important. In the Tumbao Rueda team – serious dancers who dance a lot – 4 people have had this condition. Choose a firm pair of shoes that give a lot of support under your instep. Make sure that only the toe section bends when you try and bend the shoe back.
Strangely enough, an LA style teacher praises dance sneakers in the same thread. Of course, you spin and pivot a lot in LA style but not in Cuban style -- that may be the key factor here.

Sonia,
I really feel like I have to stop dancing in ordinary sneakers but am rather sceptical about where I'm going to find decent dance sneakers/heels in Aalborg
You can wear ordinary shoes for dancing (many people do), but remember:

- No rubber soles -- choose shoes that do not grip the floor too much. You want a slip, not grip.

- Snug fit -- make sure the shoes move with your feet. You don't want your feet to move about inside the shoes, which, again, can lead to injuries. Often dance shoes have to be a slightly smaller size than your regular shoes.

[Lucretia]

Thank MacMoto for your explanation!

Both the medical facts and your fluent English (which gave me a lot of better words to describe my own problem).

I think I've feelt this kind of pain as well as the ordinary "pronation inflammation". And I only dance Cuba.

To anyone already in pain....
If you already have this kind of sneakers (or other problem shoes) and cannot afford to buy new ones... buy a stiff inner sole with support in the foot arch. This might help.

The cost for these kind of sole (where I live) is around 10$. You buy them in well equiped shoe shops or medical/ortopedical shops. There are standadized sizes (small, medium, large arch support) that need no extra adjusting to your feet.

Take care of your feet!

/Lucretia