Partnering help

[xxtupikxx]

I am hoping for some help from all the good people here at the forum in answering this question. How do dancers that come from different dance backgrounds come together to form successful partnerships?

To clarify, depending on the dance studio: the individual technique of movement, and to a greater extent connection with your partner can be taught differently. How do accomplished dancers that have mastered these aspects of dance with a different "styles" agree on a common technique and interpretation of the dances to come together?

I am sure many of you have tried out with partners from alternate studios to discover that they dance quite differently. Please share your wisdom on how you reconcile different worlds :)

Thanks

[Joe]

If you are of vastly different styles of movement, either one of you abandons their original style in favor of the partner's (or pick and choose which areas you abandon), or you meet halfway if there's some compatibility.

[tangotime]

taught differently. How do accomplished dancers that have mastered these aspects of dance with a different "styles" agree on a common technique and interpretation of the dances to come together?

I am sure many of you have tried out with partners from alternate studios to discover that they dance quite differently. Please share your wisdom on how you reconcile different worlds :)

Thanks




It would be more helpful if you would define " style "-- Amer. or Intern.-- Latin or Rhythm ?. ( and at what level )

[cornutt]

I interpreted the OP's question to be more along the lines of, "What if you or your partner is coming to ballroom from ballet, modern etc.?" I've never attempted any of those other styles, but I can sort of relate from being a musician (see the "Do musicians make bad dancers?" thread).

I think the biggest change is just getting used to the idea that there is a partnership, all the time. Most other styles of dance can be and often are danced solo, so a dancer coming from another style may not have much of an idea of partnership at all, depending on what they've been doing. I've known a couple of ballet-trained dancers who, upon taking up ballroom, said that they felt constrained and that their freedom to express was limited compared to the styles they came from. Now, we know that there is plenty of room for self-expression in ballroom, but you have to do some work to find it. (Particularly for leads, I think -- it takes a good while to get to the point where a lead can do that and still hold up his end of the partnership. I won't claim that I can do it consistently.) The other thing they may have to get used to is that in some of the other styles, particularly modern, your choice of music to dance to is wide open; you can devise a modern routine to fit pretty much anything. On the other hand, as ballroom dancers, I'm sure we can all think of great pieces of music that simply don't fit any of the dances we do.

Not at all sure I answered the question... :confused:

[BM]

I am hoping for some help from all the good people here at the forum in answering this question. How do dancers that come from different dance backgrounds come together to form successful partnerships?

To clarify, depending on the dance studio: the individual technique of movement, and to a greater extent connection with your partner can be taught differently. How do accomplished dancers that have mastered these aspects of dance with a different "styles" agree on a common technique and interpretation of the dances to come together?

I am sure many of you have tried out with partners from alternate studios to discover that they dance quite differently. Please share your wisdom on how you reconcile different worlds :)

Thanks

I interpreted as Joe did. For example - correct me if I'm mistaken - two different styles might be how a couple executes a New Yorker in Int'l Latin. One coach may teach a positive connection, versus a negative connection. In Int'l Samba, one coach may prefer more pelvic tilt, where another may prefer hip rotation. Obviously with the first example, a new couple would have to choose one or the other, otherwise they'll be falling over. With the Samba example, the couple may be able to come to a compromise, since one type of technique may not work for everyone.

Hopefully that made some sense: I have not have my coffee yet so I may be going on about nothing . . .

[tangotime]

As a coach-- I have learned not to guess anyhting !

[fire_dancer]

I think that it's very possible for two people of differing backgrounds to come together to form a successful partnership, although it's certainly not always easy! My suggestion would be to have the couple take coaching together from one consistent coach on a regular basis (preferably one whose dance style they both admire). This way, if there are any arguments over which way to do a move or style, it's agreed that their coach is the deciding factor. While it won't eliminate all conflict, it can at least keep the acclimation process to a minimum and help both people concentrate on their partnership vs. who is doing something 'the right way'.

:)

[Easy]

Practic. Practice. Practice. Find what works best for both of you. Listen to each other openly, and get lots of coaching for that outside opinion...at least they could be a ref :) When 2 people bring 2 different styles to a situation, there is a lot that both could add, and possibly become a very dynamic couple.

[BM]

When 2 people bring 2 different styles to a situation, there is a lot that both could add, and possibly become a very dynamic couple.

Agreed! One thing I love about ballroom is that it is an interaction between two dancers. If they are exactly the same in their styles, personalities, etcetera, then where is the chemistry or interaction? They complement each other, they play off each other's variances. It's brilliant. :)

[suburbaknght]

Check out some videos on YouTube together. When you see something that makes you both go "Wow! I wanna do that!" you've found your style. Then you search out a coach who teaches it.

[Chris Stratton]

One possibility, perhaps more ideal than practical, is to consider that your respective teachers could probably dance together just fine - in essence, that a lot of the incompatibility is that you are each a fraction of your teachers, and that the fractions are more different and incompatible than the ultimate whole.

In other words, instead of moving sideways to meet, you might theoretically be able to reach up to the point where more comprehensive completeness achieves more similarity.

Yeah, right...

[and123]

I'm dealing with this issue right at this very moment, and I'm getting quite frustrated. I've been dancing longer than my partner, so I've been exposed to various teachers and ideas. He, I think, whether unconsciously or not, gets stuck in the mindset of "So-and-So taught me this, therefore we should do it that way". I'm more inclined to think it through, ask whether it makes sense, and most importantly, *does it work for us*? There is no singular absolute one-size-fits-all when it comes to dancing.

I could go on and on about this, but I'd rather not get into too much detail about the parties involved; plus I'm rather irritated about it and may say something I'd regret :rolleyes::cool:. I'm trying to figure out a compromise that [1] doesn't create resentment, and [2] benefits the dance partnership the most.

[xxtupikxx]

I interpreted as Joe did. For example - correct me if I'm mistaken - two different styles might be how a couple executes a New Yorker in Int'l Latin. One coach may teach a positive connection, versus a negative connection. In Int'l Samba, one coach may prefer more pelvic tilt, where another may prefer hip rotation. Obviously with the first example, a new couple would have to choose one or the other, otherwise they'll be falling over. With the Samba example, the couple may be able to come to a compromise, since one type of technique may not work for everyone.

Hopefully that made some sense: I have not have my coffee yet so I may be going on about nothing . . .

Great examples! This is exactly what i meant when i asked the question. The practical problem is that both people think they are "right" to do things they way that they have been taught and its not clear how to reconcile.



Some ideas so far:
1) Pick one of the persons way of doing things.
2) Pick a new coach that both of you respect that helps negotiate the difference.
3) Argue till you are blue in face :)

[biggestbox]

no problem at all. I think a dancer has to be open minded. i've taken partners who did rhythm, ballet, jazz and many other things. Some have had problems and other's haven't. It take a while to develop a shared approach to dancing, but anyone can work together as long as they are willing to change be flexible and experiment.

[fire_dancer]

Don't forget #4...

Get out the Nerf bats and duel. Winner gets to do it 'their way'.

:D

[Katarzyna]

some couples end up dissolving partnerships because they just don't mesh well together.. that happens as welll..

[elisedance]

We did exactly this (I suppose all new couples do at least to some extent) and as mentioned above lots and lots of practice was essential. However, even more important than those two - to carry us through the inconsistencies - were a common goal and tollerance . You have to agree to differ on some things - and then bring them up with your coach to sort out.

Of course, that raises another can of worms, you don't mention this but which coach are you working with - or are sticking with both? We did and still are. Obviously there is no problem where they agree but whats interesting is that where they differ has been even more useful since it has taught us to rely on ourselves a bit more and select the technique that works best for us. In the process we are gradually 'taken ownership' of our partnership and are getting bold enough to venture away from the original coaching pair. In retrospect, I think we may have been better off to switch to a new coach from the outset - it avoids the his and her's aspect.

Do please tell us more though. What did you mean by different styles? And what is your current coaching situation?

[xxtupikxx]

Ok, i can get more specific.

My personal situation is that I have a dance back ground that is quite different from my current partner. Over the years i have gone through a number of different coaches, and have also come to rely on the large number of commercial seminars tapes that i have accumulated. While these different sources do not always agree amongst themselves, i feel that the combination has left me with a clear understanding of the basics of connection, musical interpretation, and individual movement within the 5 latin dances that is to some extent different from that of my partner.

My dance partner is a great dancer with a deep understanding of latin dancing that comes from two dance teachers from the dance studio where she started dancing.I have taken individual lessons with these two coaches with mixed results. We have also taken lessons together with these them with little improvement in our ability to dance together.

The main issue as i understand it, is that the instruction that i receive from my current instructors, i consider in the context of information i already have from my past coaches and tapes, while my dance partner expects me to disreguard all other knowledge and exclusively commit to the style and the technique of our instructor. I am unwilling to do this because, while i respect their ability, i do not want to dance exactly like them.

There are instances where i think doing things based on instruction i have received elsewhere would better serve for me/us. My partner strongly disagrees with this approach, it is the general source of tension of us.

More specifically, our common points of contention as aspects of the following:
1) Timing and its overall importance to success
2) The responsibilities of leader and follower
3) The technique of leading and following.

[BM]

Great examples! This is exactly what i meant when i asked the question. The practical problem is that both people think they are "right" to do things they way that they have been taught and its not clear how to reconcile.



Some ideas so far:
1) Pick one of the persons way of doing things.
2) Pick a new coach that both of you respect that helps negotiate the difference.
3) Argue till you are blue in face :)

Glad I was on-track. :) I agree with other posters: you must be open-minded going into a new partnership (or maintaining a current one, for that matter!). Chances are, both parties involved have been taught some things differently, and you know what? They may both be right. If they stubbornly think that only their way is right, though, then we have a problem.

Have they both tried the other's style? It is possible that they may end up liking a new method of dancing something even more than a current one.

Have they gone to each other's coaches? It's always nice to get a fresh perspective on things, and in some cases, a dancer may prefer to hear something straight from a pro's mouth, rather than from a partner (especially if said dancer has been bumping heads with said partner).

How long have they been practising? Sometimes it just takes time to iron out kinks in the styling of a partnership while dancers acclimate themselves with one another's style. With that, things tie back to the above paragrah about coaching. Taking lessons together with the same coach(es) can benefit partnership meshing.

[xxtupikxx]

We have been dancing together for over a year.

[BM]

Over the years i have gone through a number of different coaches, and have also come to rely on the large number of commercial seminars tapes that i have accumulated. While these different sources do not always agree amongst themselves, i feel that the combination has left me with a clear understanding of the basics of connection, musical interpretation, and individual movement within the 5 latin dances that is to some extent different from that of my partner.

Good . . .

My dance partner is a great dancer with a deep understanding of latin dancing that comes from two dance teachers from the dance studio where she started dancing.I have taken individual lessons with these two coaches with mixed results. We have also taken lessons together with these them with little improvement in our ability to dance together.

Okay, not ideal, but not the end of the world, either. Has your partner agreed to take lessons with your coach(es)? You should not be expected to abandon your coaches for a partnership, particularly if you respect and learn from them.

The main issue as i understand it, is that the instruction that i receive from my current instructors, i consider in the context of information i already have from my past coaches and tapes, while my dance partner expects me to disreguard all other knowledge and exclusively commit to the style and the technique of our instructor. I am unwilling to do this because, while i respect their ability, i do not want to dance exactly like them.

Bad!! And good call on your part!

There are instances where i think doing things based on instruction i have received elsewhere would better serve for me/us. My partner strongly disagrees with this approach, it is the general source of tension of us.

This sounds like a fundamental problem. It almost seems like she takes her coaches' teachings as the right teachings and refuses to deviate from it or even consider alternative methods. Personally, I don't know if I could tolerate that. If one is that narrow-minded, how can one hope to improve? I hope I'm making this out to be worse than it actually is.

More specifically, our common points of contention as aspects of the following:
1) Timing and its overall importance to success
2) The responsibilities of leader and follower
3) The technique of leading and following.

Although there are right and wrong ways to consider all of the above, much of it is personal preference, I think. Again, something, ideally, that would fix itself over time, but if your partner is as stubborn as I've interpreted, then I don't know how much progress you'll make. :?

[BM]

We have been dancing together for over a year.

You keep posting before I can finish my response. ;)

Is this a recent development or has it been the case for this long? Again, has your partner even considered working with your coaches?

[xxtupikxx]

The issue has existed since the beginning.

Unfortunately, my coaches are no longer local, so it would not be possible to take lessons with them.

[BM]

Sounds rough. What exactly are you trying to figure out right now? A way of coping with the issue, addressing it, working around it, deciding if it's worth it?

[xxtupikxx]

Sounds rough. What exactly are you trying to figure out right now? A way of coping with the issue, addressing it, working around it, deciding if it's worth it?

Yep, all of the above

[Easy]

Ow! Without knowing each of your differences, it's hard to give advice. Try a lesson or so with a coach that is independent of either of you, maybe they can point you both in a consistent direction or at least enlighten you. Other than that, it doesn't sound like things are going so nice...of course when you're over there they're going to want you to dance like her and vice versa.

[Joe]

Solution:

Couples counseling.

[Dancebug]

I wonder if one of you is willing to try what the other feels right. You are here, and your partner is not. Why don't you try to give up your preconceptions and dance the way she wants you to for a while and see what happens? After a couple of months if you still feel the same way you feel now, maybe you can ask her to do the same for you.

Just an idea.

[cornutt]

Don't know how long the two of you have been dancing overall. But, it's worth mentioning that (in my observation) low-intermediate dancers will usually go through a phase where they need to cling to the ideas of one instructor or coach. This happens when they start to feel overwhelmed by the amount of information coming at them (I can remember going through this myself). Usually, it's a phase that works itself out, but it requires some understanding.

[elisedance]

Sorry to sound a bit brutal, but before things get worse you had better both think of the seemingly inevitable consequences - that you will get so frustrated you will no longer be able to work with each other and will break up.

If you both think of the pleasures of searching for a new partner again perhaps a reality check will sink in?

I also suggest that you encourage your partner to sign on here and read this thread. Along those lines I hope you told her that you are seeking input. In my limited experience, a dance partnership is very much like a lifetime one, only harder ;) and both require openess and honesty to survive. The dance one is harder because there is nothing holding you together other than common committment and you actually have to work one-on-one way more (OK quiet in the peanut gallery OK?).

[etp777]

You can't say things like that and then expect us to bite our tongues. :P But I'll save it for other threads. :)

[Dancebug]

In my limited experience, a dance partnership is very much like a lifetime one, only harder ;) and both require openess and honesty to survive. The dance one is harder because there is nothing holding you together other than common committment and you actually have to work one-on-one way more (OK quiet in the peanut gallery OK?).
A dance couple who are married to each other can have more tough time, because the dispute and emotional turmoil in dancing can spill into their married life, unless they are very very careful.

[BM]

A dance couple who are married to each other can have more tough time, because the dispute and emotional turmoil in dancing can spill into their married life, unless they are very very careful.

Couples who are serious and successful within their partnerships and relationships amaze me. Having personally attempted maintaining both (and meeting with little success), I can't help but ask "How do they DO that?" when it appears to work for others . . .

[elisedance]

Ditto BM. But my experience is that dance simply brings out the flaws in an already flawed relationship. Many couples stay together even though they dislike or even hate each other by simply only getting together for essentials. Dance foces you to be together for far more than that and cracks quickly become crevasses...

I think that if you get together with someone that you really love - that is someone where you care about their happiness and wellbeing at least as much (and possibly more) than that of your own, the opposite happens - dance becomes an opportunity and not a test.

[reb]

Elise said it all.

[elisedance]

Elise said it all.

Let me guess what you two are an example of? :together:

[madmaximus]

Remember that a partnership is about what BOTH of you can create together; not just what one or the other has been trained in.

Do not consider your different styles as hurdles; it can foster contemptuous discontent.

Look at the other as a gem and their skills as facets of that gem; inevitably both of you will realize what a combination you can make!

Examine those things beyond your common ground, discuss, and adopt those radically different from what you know (or believe) NOT because it is a compromise but because it is what makes BOTH of you move beautifully.

It is difficult to let go of ego, pride, narrow-mindedness and singular selfishness.
These often prevent us from being objective enough to help us evolve as dancers (especially when faced with adopting someone else's style); but try letting go anyway.

Because when the dust settles and the arguments fade, if it has made your dancing more beautiful, you will realize there wasn't any cause for unease in the first place.




m

[chocolatchica]

I interpreted the OP's question to be more along the lines of, "What if you or your partner is coming to ballroom from ballet, modern etc.?" I've never attempted any of those other styles, but I can sort of relate from being a musician (see the "Do musicians make bad dancers?" thread).

I think the biggest change is just getting used to the idea that there is a partnership, all the time. Most other styles of dance can be and often are danced solo, so a dancer coming from another style may not have much of an idea of partnership at all, depending on what they've been doing. I've known a couple of ballet-trained dancers who, upon taking up ballroom, said that they felt constrained and that their freedom to express was limited compared to the styles they came from. Now, we know that there is plenty of room for self-expression in ballroom, but you have to do some work to find it. (Particularly for leads, I think -- it takes a good while to get to the point where a lead can do that and still hold up his end of the partnership. I won't claim that I can do it consistently.) The other thing they may have to get used to is that in some of the other styles, particularly modern, your choice of music to dance to is wide open; you can devise a modern routine to fit pretty much anything. On the other hand, as ballroom dancers, I'm sure we can all think of great pieces of music that simply don't fit any of the dances we do.

Not at all sure I answered the question... :confused:
I think modern and jazz is easier to bring into dancesport. Ballet helps a lot because it is a great foundation but a lot of the techniques learned can be awful for dancsport. Especially latin. I studied classical ballet since I was a child and when I started dancesport I took to smooth and standard best. It took my body a while to change the muscle memory and move into latin. Still having some issue with that.

[Dancebug]

I think that if you get together with someone that you really love - that is someone where you care about their happiness and wellbeing at least as much (and possibly more) than that of your own, the opposite happens - dance becomes an opportunity and not a test.
I think it takes a lot of will power to change dance into an opportunity not a test. One's artistic desire to make something perfect is never naturally comparable to desire to love someone without condition. One needs to constantly remind oneself what is a priority.

[elisedance]

I think it takes a lot of will power to change dance into an opportunity not a test. One's artistic desire to make something perfect is never naturally comparable to desire to love someone without condition. One needs to constantly remind oneself what is a priority.

I agree - but I think you will also agree that if you truly love someone it will also add something to your (partner) dance that may be absent from your competitors. After all, aren't some of them a stylized representation of love?

[elisedance]

I think it takes a lot of will power to change dance into an opportunity not a test. One's artistic desire to make something perfect is never naturally comparable to desire to love someone without condition. One needs to constantly remind oneself what is a priority.

Definitely - but I think you will also agree that if you truly love someone it will also add something to your (partner) dance that may be absent from your competitors.

[Dancebug]

Definitely - but I think you will also agree that if you truly love someone it will also add something to your (partner) dance that may be absent from your competitors.
Absolutely!:together: Thank you for reminding me of that.

[fire_dancer]

Definitely - but I think you will also agree that if you truly love someone it will also add something to your (partner) dance that may be absent from your competitors.

And just imagine the heat that could be generated in Latin or Rhythm!

(and if you were fighting... man! what a tango!) :o

[elisedance]

And just imagine the heat that could be generated in Latin or Rhythm!

(and if you were fighting... man! what a tango!) :o

yes. not to mention how much more fun it then is.

Trouble is, at a competition where you have to do all five dances in a row, how do you arrange to be long-term lovers for two (W, FT) full of sass and distain or even anger in one (T) bounce and hangining out with your darling best friend (QT) and making love on a very choppy ocean cruise for the last (VW) - all one immediately after the other :)

Perhaps someone who knows more could do the honours for latin!

[biggestbox]

Some advice from a former #2 in the world 10 dance dancer: Before each time you dance, imagine the room is a different temperature.

Helped me, don't know if that will help you.

[elisedance]

What an interesting comment - was there a guide as to which temperature to choose for each dance style?

[and123]

I imagine QS would be a cold room. Foxtrot, balmy.

[Throwaway Overshare]

I think you will also agree that if you truly love someone it will also add something to your (partner) dance that may be absent from your competitors.

While it certainly makes it easier to do so, it's entirely possible to get in a bitter argument even without this.

[fire_dancer]

I think Vwaltz would be a freezing room - you want to do a slow liesurely dance, but it's too cold to do anything but do it fast!

[elisedance]

So thats why you do a closer hold? Brrrrrrrr...

[Corne]

I am going to revive this thread cause i need some thoughts/advice on how to proceed.

I have 2 potential standard dance partners. Both taller than me, though they have different dance backgrounds.
One is a swing/basic american style dancer - partner 1. The other an accomplished, done very well in pro/am comps, american
style smooth dancer - partner 2.
Partner 1 can't afford private dance lessons, so i will have to pay our way for lessons (same price for 1 or 2 people per lesson, though). His schedule are a bit more flexible though and i can fairly easily schedule lessons for us.

Partner 2 is currently teaching american style in the area and from the sound of it also has a day job. So scheduling lessons with him, might be a bit tough. He sounds like he could contribute towards our lessons without a problem. Now the question begs whether partner 2 can compete am/am in standard if he has been teaching smooth dancing in the area ? ( just wondering about this )

My goal with the partnership would hopefully be to compete am/am one day. Probably not for the next few months.
I have had a private lesson with partner 1 and hopefully be able to schedule a private lesson with partner 2 next week. My schedule won't allow keeping both partners for now, so i'll have to let go one of them.
The question is, which one would work out better ? More experienced dancer (partner 2) vs more flexible (partner 1).

[chica latina]

Corne,

I would ask partner 2 how much time is he willing to give to practice and take lessons. I would ask your teacher for advice.. Is partner 1 very talented? If he is and can practice, take more lessons than partner 2 he may be able to get to partner 2 level.

but it may be that partner 2 is more experienced and talented... which means he may not need to take as many lessons to dance well. For me, I think you will get the best advice from your coach after seeing you dance with both.

that partner 2 has been teaching is not a problem anymore... by USA

[Joe]

Partner #2 can compete am/am in any style, as long as he has never competed as a pro in pro/am (or pro/pro) in any style.

And it depends what you want--accomplished or flexible. :D

[fire_dancer]

I'd recommend that you don't look only at their time availability, but also at their personalities too. It seems that 95% of the partnerships that split up (that I've heard of) do so because of personality differences and a difference in temperament. While how often they can practice and which one can afford lessons are valuable things to consider, keep in mind that you can have the most available, rich partner in the world but if he is laid back ("no big deal, we'll figure this step out later") and you're a perfectionist ("let's go over it again! and again! and again!) chances are you won't have a great experience.

Best of luck to you in whichever one you choose! :)