Where is the prestiege/ competitor numbers in American dancesport?

[WaltzElf]

I ask this because America has such a massively different system to here in Australia, and get way more competitors in certain types of events to others.

In Australia, the events with the most pretiege are the Open Amateurs, and depending on the comp the Professional competition. But mainly the open amateur. Fairly evenly spread between Latin, Ballroom and New Vogue, but Latin tends to be the highlight event of the comp.

Pro Am is rarely competed in, and when it is it's more novelty event than anything - kinda like individual competition. The focus of any given comp is definately amateur competition from levels 1 through 5.

[GJB]

I think the Open Professional divisions are the highest caliber of dance in the US. We have had quite a few couples place in the top 24 in both Latin and Standard at Blackpool in recent years.

[NielsenE]

Well I think the answer to the question depends on which half of the question you're trying to answer:

The "prestige" is probably the same in the US as Australia and the rest of the world -- Open Amateur Latin, Open Amateur Standard, Open Professional Standard, and Open Professional Latin. I believe, but haven't been following it myself too recently, that the calibre of the amateur and professional divisions are often seen as near equivalent just with different aspects of dancing traditionally emphasized.

Of course within the nation the amateur and professional titles for the Open Smooth and Open Rhythm are respected, but (unfortunately, IMO) not as respected as the other discliplines. Amateur Rhythm seems to be having a rough time, pro rhythm less so.

Numbers.... Well I think that's one place where US dancing is often very different than overseas. There is a huge population of syllabus dancers active within both the collegiate and USA Dance competition. That I've been lead to believe doesn't have a real counterpart in the rest of the world (ditto for the large, but not as extensive numbers of Pro-Am). For instance the largest of the collegiate events will commonly have ~150 couples in the Bronze Event and ~100 Silver couples. I've been told that this is partly because the US has a larger tradition of "adults" taking up competitive ballroom late in their life

[BasicsFirst]

I agree with NielsenE. Amateur Open Latin has the highest prestige (draw, size of audience, noise of audience, etc.; however you call it/measure it), followed closely in second by Amateur Open Standard and then IMO the Professional Open Latin and Standard a more distant 3rd and 4th.

Australia has New Vogue, anywhere else that anyone is aware?

And the U.S. has Rhythm and Smooth, anywhere else that anyone is aware?

[WaltzElf]

I agree with NielsenE. Amateur Open Latin has the highest prestige (draw, size of audience, noise of audience, etc.; however you call it/measure it), followed closely in second by Amateur Open Standard and then IMO the Professional Open Latin and Standard a more distant 3rd and 4th.

Australia has New Vogue, anywhere else that anyone is aware?

And the U.S. has Rhythm and Smooth, anywhere else that anyone is aware?

Australia’s really trying to push New Vogue into the rest of the world. It’s danced in New Zealand and some Asian countries now too. They’re aware of it in Europe at the moment, although it’s competing directly with English Old Time over there, being visually very similar. I dunno what its status is in America.

Australian pros that go overseas and do shows etc often like to throw in some New Vogue with the standard demonstrations. With good reason too, it’s a lovely way of keeping “in theme” while breaking from traditional hold, and frankly, lifts get boring, so some NV sequences just look really nice.

I wish NV had a higher profile. It’s a gorgeous way of dancing.

[Gorme]

I watched a few New Vogue videos on Youtube. What's the difference between New Vogue and Smooth?

[ThisIsNotMe]

New Vogue dances are sequence dances, so everyone dances the same steps at the same time. I think that the usual length is 16-32 bars (not sure on this one).

[reb]

everyone dances the same steps at the same time
So, in this respect, it's about exactly opposite of Smooth . . . ;)

[SDsalsaguy]

So, in this respect, it's about exactly opposite of Smooth . . . ;)
Yes and no. The movement and partnering are almost exactly the same, its just that everyone is doing the same choreography simultaneously. An excellent way to get newer dancers involved and participating in socially dancing with others and in having common materials in which to try injecting developing technique. But also the opposite of Smooth in minimizing the floorcraft issues that face Smooth dancers more than any other competitors.

[tangotime]

Its essentially the same in the UK-- called Modern Sequence .--- 64 bars

[WaltzElf]

Actually, the UK dancing that New Vogue is most similar to is the variety of English Old Time dances.


Just to mention something about New Vogue that is often overlooked though - because there's no floorcraft concerns (well, very minimal), New Vogue actually bears more than a passing resemblence to ballet, in terms of the the way the presentation works in both styles. Watch a good New Vogue couple (and I'm willing to bet 99% of YouTube videos aren't good New Vogue couples), and presentation is far more balletic than American Smooth. In ballet, since you're working to a set choreography, floorcraft isn't an issue either, but the difficulty is, when you're working to set choreography, standing out is that much more difficult.

Only the footwork is mandatory in New Vogue. Arm lines, expression, attitude and presentation are up to the individual couple, and there is some very inventive work being done out there.

Overall, ballet dancers make very, very good quality New Vogue dancers, once they retrain their feet to straighten.


I also greatly resent that, whenever someone describes New Vogue, they describe it as "an easy way to get beginners out there". It is, but that does no justice to the form at all, as it suggests that New Vogue is in some way easy. I'm sure SDsalsaguy didn't mean it that way, but I'd happily compete against someone who claims NV is easy any day. Because it's a sure sign they don't have a clue what they're talking about when they say NV is easy. ;-) Understanding the form means you understand it is difficult.

Even the humble Merrilyn can take seasoned NV specialists many, many hours hard training to get right.



Sorry for the big rant, but I really dislike misinformation being spread about NV, because above all other forms of dancing, it's my favourite. It's certainlly not an inferior form of dancing, and it's nothing like American Smooth. ;-)