Tailsuit Required?

[GJB]

At what level of comp does a tailsuit become required? Do men have to wear a tail suit in open gold Standard?

[Joe]

Certainly when you're dancing open choreography it's a good idea. Good rule of thumb: what are the other gents wearing?

[GJB]

Bummer. I didn't want to spring for a tailsuit until I lose some weight. Was hoping I could start with something like slacks and a vest.

But, I don't have a partner yet so I may be jumping the gun. Try out tomorrow.

[samina]

hey, good luck, G! :)

[GJB]

Thanks Samina!

[Chris Stratton]

Was hoping I could start with something like slacks and a vest.

But, I don't have a partner yet so I may be jumping the gun. Try out tomorrow.

You probably can start with something else - cardigan type sweater for example. Especially in novice which I believe would be the am/am equivelent of 'open gold' (a pro/am term). In ordinary amateur closed syllabus tailsuits are not permitted anyway, though they are in the over 35s and usually at college-hosted (open to everyone) competitions.

Don't worry about it yet - even in a division where most would be wearing them, if it's your first time out there are more important things to worry about.

[GJB]

You probably can start with something else - cardigan type sweater for example. Especially in novice which I believe would be the am/am equivelent of 'open gold' (a pro/am term). In ordinary amateur closed syllabus tailsuits are not permitted anyway, though they are in the over 35s and usually at college-hosted (open to everyone) competitions.

Don't worry about it yet - even in a division where most would be wearing them, if it's your first time out there are more important things to worry about.

Thanks.

It looked like you were having a try out the other day. How did it go?

[BasicsFirst]

I've seen "very classy" combinations of slacks and vest. In fact the "very classy" one I'm thinking of ended up 1st place... over MANY tailsuits! Their dancing was great, and the outfit did not penalize them.

[GJB]

I've seen "very classy" combinations of slacks and vest. In fact the "very classy" one I'm thinking of ended up 1st place... over MANY tailsuits! Their dancing was great, and the outfit did not penalize them.

Cool! Thanks.

[reb]

At what level of comp does a tailsuit become required? Do men have to wear a tail suit in open gold Standard?
GJB - for the many, many DF readers who rely on the answers to your good question to guide them . . . please clarify if this is for Amateur or Pro/Am (or both).

It may or may not change the concensus, but it is a critical piece of information.

For Amatuer - Gold is still within the syllabus ranks - before Novice, which is before Pre-Champ, which is before Championship level competition

For Pro/Am - Gold (although a syllabus designation) is pretty high up there . . .

Thanks for the extra effort for the team!

[BasicsFirst]

Good point Reb. If you're going to dance Am-Am in Gold Standard, I'd say you're gonna need a tail-suit. Even if not in your own area but when you travel outside of it. In my neck of the woods it's required (with exception) at Silver.

[Chris Stratton]

If you're going to dance Am-Am in Gold Standard, I'd say you're gonna need a tail-suit.

In the US, not only not needed, but not allowed in syllabus divisions. Except in over 35 where they are allowed, and at many college comps where they are indeed quite common in gold finals.

[BasicsFirst]

Must be loosely enforced. A couple from a practice we go to competed in New York last summer in Am-Am Silver Standard; and all he's got is a tail-suit.

[Chris Stratton]

I believe that NDCA competitions can locally waive the rule if they want, but this is the national rule for adult syllabus in both sanctioning organizations - no tailsuits and no ballgowns.

In practice numerically meaningful syllabus competition will be found at a few USA dance events all of which are very strict about this, and at numerous college hosted comps that write their own rules which typically do permit full costumes in silver and above - though by no means require them.

It's important to be aware of this, because every once in a while someone from a pro/am background shows up at an amateur event and has to dance with a warmup jacket over their costume or something.

[reb]

Referencing this:

GJB - for the many, many DF readers who rely on the answers to your good question to guide them . . . please clarify if this is for Amateur or Pro/Am (or both).

It may or may not change the concensus, but it is a critical piece of information.

For Amatuer - Gold is still within the syllabus ranks - before Novice, which is before Pre-Champ, which is before Championship level competition

For Pro/Am - Gold (although a syllabus designation) is pretty high up there . . .

Thanks for the extra effort for the team!

Then this . . .

Good point Reb. If you're going to dance Am-Am in Gold Standard, I'd say you're gonna need a tail-suit. Even if not in your own area but when you travel outside of it. In my neck of the woods it's required (with exception) at Silver.

Accck!! What the **** is Am-Am?????*

Please stick with Amateur or Pro/Am - please - so a reader can understand if/how it applies to them - - its really simple - please . . . !!


* Am-Am is at best a designation for a very few am/am (sometimes listed as student /student) designations mixed in among Pro/Am in NDCA Pro/Am single dance events

[GJB]

I had Amateur in mind when I asked the question though at the time I didn't realize there was no Amateur open gold as Chris pointed out.

[reb]

Thanks GJB: Amateur Gold Standard

*****

For everyone's reference . . .

Here is the website with the downloadable USA Dance rulebook which covers Amateur (at USA Dance events) and is generally applicable at ISDF events (and notes the exceptions) http://usadance.org/dancesport

Syllabus (including Amateur Gold Standard and Smooth):

Suspenders
Black trousers
Black cardigan/pullover/vest
White long sleeve shirt (Standard), white/black shirt (Smooth)
White/Black only tie/bow tieHere is the website with the downloadable NDCA rulebook which covers both Pro/Am (at NDCA events) and Amateur (at NDCA events) http://www.ndca.org/info.cfm?showsection=info&showsubsection=rules&cfid=54527331&cftoken=43695455 although its easy to just go to NDCA.org -> Information

It looks like the dress requirements for Pro/Am (at NDCA events) are covered by

Section V.A.3 "Competitors must adhere to the dress requirements specified by the Organizer"

And it looks like dress requirements for Amateur (at NDCA events) are covered in section Section X.E and Section X.F

Definition of “Syllabus Dress”.
Gentlemen. Standard and Smooth Divisions: Dress pants, plain shirt and tie, and optional cummerbund or vest or black sweater or tuxedo. No tail suits.

Definition of “Open Amateur Dress”.
Gentlemen. Standard and Smooth Divisions: Tailsuits.

For “Syllabus” competitions competitors must wear “Syllabus” Dress.

For “Novice” competitions competitors may wear either “Syllabus” or “Open Amateur” dress. The competition organizer may stipulate one or the other for this category.

For “Pre-Championship” and “Open Amateur” competitions competitors should wear “Championship” costumes.

Competition organizers may establish alternative dress and/or costume guidelines if they desire

***********

Caveat - this is just an excerpt addressing a slice of the rules relevant to this thread - read the full rules for your competition - if confused, we're here to help!

[Joe]

Occasionally Am/Am refers to what is really the NDCA Student/Student.

[Chris Stratton]

Occasionally Am/Am refers to what is really the NDCA Student/Student.

and then they get to wear what they'd wear if they each had pro/am teachers.... except on Tuesdays or if the chair of judge's last name beings with a letter after 'M'

[vcolfari]

If Pro/Am continues to be the preferred label, I don't see the use of Am/Am (instead of Amateur) as problematic, especially when the word amateur can refer either to the competitive division or to the competitor.

[GJB]

Thanks Reb !

[White Chacha]

and then they get to wear what they'd wear if they each had pro/am teachers.... except on Tuesdays or if the chair of judge's last name beings with a letter after 'M'

Heh

[reb]

* Am-Am is at best a designation for a very few am/am (sometimes listed as student /student) designations mixed in among Pro/Am in NDCA Pro/Am single dance events

Occasionally Am/Am refers to what is really the NDCA Student/Student.

Agree.:D

[reb]

If Pro/Am continues to be the preferred label, I don't see the use of Am/Am (instead of Amateur) as problematic, especially when the word amateur can refer either to the competitive division or to the competitor.
Hi vcolfari,

1) Terminology: Pro/Am is the official label (as is Amateur) of the division, recognized by NDCA and USA Dance. Am/Am is not. We can help with readers understanding if we use the published nomenclature (NDCA, USA Dance, IDSF, etc.) as the point of departure - adding qualifiers and clarification as we type is helpful too.

2) Clarity: If you feel it helps with clarity, please add the qualifier that helps, such as "division" or "competitor". This is an improvement and is welcome, and we can learn from you - thanks!

3) Respect: Seeing through others' eyes - many readers are not actively posting here, but are reading to learn. Let's help them. There are new people exposed to ballroom dancing and this forum each day - let's help with their understanding.

4) Sharing: Not everyone has the same experience. One who works through Amateur has a set of experiences, one who works through Pro/Am has a set of experiences, one who does both Amateur and Pro/Am can help bridge this gap, keeping in mind the similarities, differences, questions, learning transition points, etc.

:D

[Chris Stratton]

If we use 'amateur' to describe the am-am events, then the pro/am crowd starts complaining that they are amateurs too (and it's a good point, because actually under the current rules, the only group required to be such)