Professional dancing

[Anthea]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading this discussion board for a while and decided to join today. I've been trying to find a thread about this but had no luck.

I started dancing only last month. I decided I needed to do something fun for myself, so I signed up for this ballroom bootcamp where the basic steps for foxtrot, waltz, tango, WCS, rumba, and cha cha were taught. Only four weeks later I'm at this dance studio four days a week!

I absolutely love it. Ballroom dancing just makes me so happy, even thinking about it makes me smile.

Now, I wanted to ask how did you figure out you wanted to become a professional (instructor or competition dancing or both)? How did you get there? What "course of action" did you follow? How long did it take you to reach what level?

I'm very excited to hear from you all! Thanks!

[suburbaknght]

First, welcome to DF and congratulations on starting dance!

Second, if you search the boards you'll find some great advice on this very topic. It's how I got the advice that set me on my current path.

Third, I figured out I wanted to be a dance teacher a year ago (nearly to the day) when I left my previous job in software without having another position lined up. At this point I'd been dancing for about seven years off and on, and about a year and a half with something approaching serious dedication. I looked at what I was doing with all of my free time and definitely all of my free money and realized that I was happier while dancing than at any other time and that I wanted to share that passion with other people.

Generally there are three paths to become a professional. Because nearly all of them require teaching, at least initially (if not continuously) I will only be addressing the "how" aspect as regards becoming a professional ballroom teacher; if you want to be a professional competitor, there are additional steps that other pros here can probably answer a lot better than I.

The first is the Leap of the Skilled Amateur. This requires years of taking classes, private lessons, and workshops, competing, and dancing anywhere you get a chance. You learn the man's and lady's parts for fun and to increase your own knowledge. At some point you realize you have something to share and so you start teaching. This method is very expensive and takes a long, long time. It works very well for the hobbyist dancer who wants a bit of return on his or her investment or who wants to make a career change. It also works well if you're not sure this is the right career for you and you want to see what intensive study is like before making that leap. It is not recommended otherwise.

The second method is the Ballroom School method. There are several good teachers, and many bad teachers, who run intensive training programs for instructors. These are generally a few months of very intensive study followed by a certification exam. I don't know much about them but I have heard good things about them. Be warned that their pace is incredibly rapid and if you don't have both talent and discipline you will wash out. Maybe a few of the posters here can comment on these training programs.

The third method is the Apprenticeship. In this method you sign on with a ballroom studio as a trainee instructor. In return for substantially discounted or free training, you sign a contract promising to work for them at a certain rate for one to two years (your mileage will vary) and agreeing to a non-compete status for periods ranging from two years to life. You go through an intensive training period of six weeks to six months before taking a certification exam. Trainee programs like this are more common among chain studios but many independent studios use them as well. Pay, both as a trainee and junior instructor ranges from poor to abysmal (I had to move back in with my parents to make the math work) but may come with a guaranteed job provided you pass your certification.

If you're serious about becoming a professional talk to your teachers. Talk to them about an average day at work, an average day off, the expenses, the time commitment, reactions from friends and family, and if you're still interested ask what you should do to start training as professional.

[reb]

Great answer suburbaknght!

As suburbaknght said, Welcome to Dance Fourms Anthea!!

Since probably everyone here has thought - "hey, I want to do this the rest of my life", I anticipate you'll get some more inputs . . .

[Easy]

I'll second reb's thoughts on supurbaknght's post.

I actually started the third way. It's not an easy way to start, but if you show dedication and spirit, it's pretty easy to find a studio willing to take you on. There are a lot of studios out there looking for dependable people. They might prefer an experienced professional, but a lot of professionals are nomadic...these are the ones that think the grass is always greener somewhere else...mind you I'm not talking about professionals in search of a partner. So needless to say, a brand new fresh personality with spunk and determination is usually a safe bet for most studio owners.

The money is the tough thing in the beginning. It might take some time to acquire a good clientele, thereby making the income quite sporadic. In the meantime, a good studio will provide advertising, training, a great atmosphere for learning the trade, as well as plenty of practice partners.

Check out the studios in your area. Attend some of their functions..parties, exhibitions, etc, and make sure these are the people you want to emulate. Dancing is important, but I think you want to also grow up with people who have a good sense of ethics. If the studio is full of happy students, it's usually a good indicator that you're in the right place. Most of all you know who you are...if it feels right, then it probably is the right place for you.

Good luck :)

[suburbaknght]

I'm going to second Easy. If you wouldn't take lessons there, think three times before working there.

[jwlinson]

In process mostly with the first way. Not yet a professional, still strictly an amateur, but gaining teaching experience by being given our own beginning group class as sort of an "intern" sort of thing.

We've devoted time and effort to classes, privates, workshops, and dancing anywhere and everywhere we can to improve our dance knowledge. We've switched roles so as to learn each other's parts, and in turn gain knowledge about our own. We answered the call to help out with the group class when asked, and in turn have learned much about improving our own dancing by teaching it to others.

From the competitive aspect, we have no experience as of yet. We're going to "scratch that itch" at a few upcoming collegiate comps, so we'll see how that goes.

Since we have other means of income, this is a great way to build experience for when we do eventually switch over on down the road.

[biggestbox]

I think the first way is going to be more and more popular. AMs will be able to teach very soon, and this will definitely crowd out the weaker pro dancers.

I also know a ballet teacher who teaches ballet at a ballroom studio, and also take lessons in ballroom. I personally think this is a very good way to develop ones skills.

[K_8ie]

Let me ask you, Anthea, how long ago did you start dancing?

I don't mean to insult anyone here, but hitting the pro ranks after having no real dance experience is, to me, mocking what we do! There are people out there that live, breath, eat dance since they are very little. They spend every penny they have on coaching and competitions, and then they hit the Pro ranks only to be faced with the increasing competition of "Pro's" who just woke up one morning and decided that this was their path without any previous experience!

We have all watched some of the auditions on SYTYCD. We've all seen the people who say they "teach" dance. We've all seen Nigel get upset over this. I feel him! I've seen these "teachers", and I still get upset over the issue.

[Anthea]

Hi everyone and thanks for the great responses.

K_8ie - You didn't insult me. I only started dancing recently, however I do have some ballet background from before I moved here. I didn't start this topic with the thought I'd go professional dancing tomorrow. I'd rather get some insight from you guys and hear about different ways of getting there. I know it will take me years to even get close, but that's alright. However, I might be able to save some time by taking the right types of classes.

I really hope I didn't upset anyone. I have no illusions about this, I just want some advice on how to work towards the goal of professional dancing one day.

[reb]

AMs will be able to teach very soon

They don't already?

[Easy]

You haven't insulted me in the least Anthea. The chain studios like Fred Astaire's and Arthur Murray's have beginner levels geared for pros in their closed competitions. The first is novice, which I believe is for dancers who have not been dancing for more than a year and a half. Pre-champ would be the next level. This is for people who have been dancing for five years or less. After that, it's on to rising star.

Going with a chain will help you to grow and move toward your goal. You'll make money in the process and have a lot of support...just watch out for the old f*rts who are always looking for a young cutie to promise things they can't or won't deliver. They are usually the executives in the chains. I won't mention names... An independent studio might be great as well. It just depends upon the studio.

[suburbaknght]

We have all watched some of the auditions on SYTYCD. We've all seen the people who say they "teach" dance. We've all seen Nigel get upset over this. I feel him! I've seen these "teachers", and I still get upset over the issue.I've actually had more issues with the opposite problem: fantastic amateur dancers who are great at dancing but have no idea how to teach.

"Do this. No, this. No, this. Just do what I'm doing!"

[reb]

You haven't insulted me in the least Anthea. The chain studios like Fred Astaire's and Arthur Murray's have beginner levels geared for pros in their closed competitions. The first is novice, which I believe is for dancers who have not been dancing for more than a year and a half. Pre-champ would be the next level. This is for people who have been dancing for five years or less. After that, it's on to rising star.

Going with a chain will help you to grow and move toward your goal. You'll make money in the process and have a lot of support...just watch out for the old f*rts who are always looking for a young cutie to promise things they can't or won't deliver. They are usually the executives in the chains. I won't mention names... An independent studio might be great as well. It just depends upon the studio.
Arthur Murray had a category for their closed competitions called Future Champions (I think) and I think the criteria included being a teacher/professional for less than two years.

Hopefully someone from AMI can correct/update this faint memory . . . please.

[suburbaknght]

Hopefully someone from AMI can correct/update this faint memory . . . please.

I believe it's called Rising Star but I wouldn't swear to it. Competitions are fun but I just want to teach.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Welcome to DF, Anthea!

What sort of professional do you want to become? Do you want only to compete at the professional level? Do you want to teach and/or compete with single amateurs? Teach couples? Do you want to teach people to compete? Social dance? Wedding dance? Depending on your goals, your training period could be anywhere from as little as 6 weeks to more than 10 years.

Ballroom teachers needed - no experience required (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=4461)
Dance Certifications -- Yes or No? (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=711)
Dancing with a six-week wonder (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=7498)
Do dance teachers need to know silver+? (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=2202)
Help for a wannabe ballroom teacher (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=3864)
How long did it take you all to become a pro? (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=12646)
What makes someone a pro? (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=3300)

Here is the saga of a DFer who went into teaching:
Question for ballroom instructors, or others who may know... (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=8245)
The teaching update (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=8462)
Resurrected: The Teaching Update (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=10085)
*dusting off cobwebs* (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=15843)

[reb]

Nice compilation TC.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Thanks, reb! Now, if only I were a better dancer than a librarian... :cool:

[Joe]

They don't already?
The future is now. ;)

[Bailamosdance]

That's right - amateurs have been allowed to teach since Jan 1, 2007.

[Anthea]

Thank you so much for that compilation, Terpsichorean Clod. That was VERY helpful!

I'd like to compete at a professional level, eventually. The studio I go to right now is not a chain, but it has been around for about a decade and going strong. I absolutely love the instructors and the general atmosphere.

This weekend one of the students actually finished 4th in a ProAm competition in LA. After dancing for only 7 months! I find that absolutely amazing. I guess I'll have to ask her how she did it! It's very encouraging though!

Thanks again for all your great answers!

[chocolatchica]

I am so glad that you are so inspired by this form of dancing! I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully we'll get to start seeing you at some comps :-)

[nucat78]

I just want to wish you the best of luck. If this is really your passion, follow it!

Just as an aside, we have an asst instructor who is a former ballerina and who competed in Latin. I have never seen such perfect form and I just stood there stunned the first time I saw her dance.

[Easy]

Last 2 posts=inspiration I like those kind of posts :)

[Prestigious]

Hello everyone, im glad to find such an active dancing forum. Anyway,

I'm a 17 year old male, and I just started doing competitive Ballroom Dancing at the start of this year. I am really enjoying it.

My question is this: am I too old to consider making a career out of this, and become a professional Ballroom dancer? I know i havent been doing it for long, but ive found I have a real passion for it, and there is nothing else i would rather be doing.

Your thoughts? Thanks.

[latingal]

Welcome to DF Prestigious!

Actually we've had quite a few threads of this nature, usually about a dancer who is starting ballroom in their late teens or early twenties asking if it's possible to become a champion starting at such a "late" age.

You may wish to search our archives to find some of those threads....

Your question is slightly different then the threads I remember in that you asked if you could make a career out of ballroom....there are many dance teachers who started in their later ages, I don't think it's out of the question at all.

However, if you are asking what many have asked in the past - can they realistically become ballroom champions starting at a later age, well that's a tougher proposition, but as it's been pointed out before, not one totally out of question. I believe it's definitely harder to do not having the advantage of learning and dancing through the formative years, but there are many instances that have been brought up in the past that illustrate it can be done (Carmen Vincelj, DF's own Larinda, etc.).

[Prestigious]

Welcome to DF Prestigious!

Actually we've had quite a few threads of this nature, usually about a dancer who is starting ballroom in their late teens or early twenties asking if it's possible to become a champion starting at such a "late" age.

You may wish to search our archives to find some of those threads....

Your question is slightly different then the threads I remember in that you asked if you could make a career out of ballroom....there are many dance teachers who started in their later ages, I don't think it's out of the question at all.

However, if you are asking what many have asked in the past - can they realistically become ballroom champions starting at a later age, well that's a tougher proposition, but as it's been pointed out before, not one totally out of question. I believe it's definitely harder to do not having the advantage of learning and dancing through the formative years, but there are many instances that have been brought up in the past that illustrate it can be done (Carmen Vincelj, DF's own Larinda, etc.).

Good to hear that these things are doable. And thanks for the thread merger, lots of valuable information here.

Making a living off dance sounds good, but competing is what gives me the biggest thrill, so I guess Id be more focused on that than teaching. Is it realistic to be able to aim to do both? I know many professionals own their own studios in addition to competing, but im not sure what is required to achieve this.

Also, i don't think that my current partner has the same desire to be great (she enjoys doing it sort of just as a competitive sport, not so much as a lifestyle choice). Any advice on how to handle that sort of situation?

Thanks!

[bia]

Also, i don't think that my current partner has the same desire to be great (she enjoys doing it sort of just as a competitive sport, not so much as a lifestyle choice). Any advice on how to handle that sort of situation?

Thanks!
Having shared goals is a big deal in partnership, but if you don't, the question is what effect that is having on your own progress. If you're happy with how you're learning and practicing and competing, no reason to mess with a good thing for now. I would expect that eventually, you'll start to feel held back because you're willing to put in more time and money than she is. At that point, you'll probably want to look for another partner to go the next step with. (And that's certainly preferable to pushing your current partner to change her goals, once you've verified that you have perceived her goals accurately.)

[Terpsichorean Clod]

And thanks for the thread merger
You're welcome!
Making a living off dance sounds good, but competing is what gives me the biggest thrill, so I guess Id be more focused on that than teaching. Is it realistic to be able to aim to do both? I know many professionals own their own studios in addition to competing, but im not sure what is required to achieve this.If you're interested pretty much only in competing rather than teaching, then I guess it's a bit simpler. You'd just work your way up the amateur ranks and then turn pro. Some competing pros keep their day jobs.
Also, i don't think that my current partner has the same desire to be great (she enjoys doing it sort of just as a competitive sport, not so much as a lifestyle choice). Any advice on how to handle that sort of situation?You should PM soshedances (http://danceforums.com/member.php?u=23740). She hasn't posted in awhile, but I think she's still around. She's experienced it from the other side, having had a partner who wanted to turn pro. She can advise you on how to end things in a respectful manner, if your partner's goals are truly incompatible with yours.
http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?p=783899
http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?p=789856

Welcome to Dance Forums!

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Dancers who DIDN'T start as children (http://danceforums.com/showthread.php?t=16073)