Curmudgeons

[suburbaknght]

My friend A---- posted this on her blog. I'm reposting it with her permission. Please share your thoughts.

I actually went out last night. Me? Yeah. My friend B got stood up for his half of a double-date and was looking for a good stand-in. Being as this was a _dancing_ event, he had a few requirements: 1. Pretty. 2. Dancer. Now, B knows 3 good dancers. The first one he knows stood him up for the dancing double date. The second dancer he knows is the OTHER HALF of the dancing double date. I'm the third.

So I get a phone call, scrounge up an outfit from my closet, truss up my hair and out I went. We saw a swing quartet in a very nice, subdued club full of ridiculous expensive drinks and waiters that just couldn't understand, "Just a soda, I'm driving." The music was amazing, spanning all of the major genres favorable in the teens and twenties (1910 and 1920s). Samba, bassa nova, standard Big Band swings, loungy pop-blues. It was great!

I mentioned it was a dancing double date. PRoblem was, there about 10ft2 of dancing space. Eventually, the three or four dancing couples traded off sets and every crammed in for the slow songs. I say _eventually_ because first...

B and I got up for a nice hoppy single swing. Think "In the Mood' or something along like that. We're "cutting a rug" when this old lady (>70) sitting at the bar hollers at us to SIT DOWN! SHE CAN"T SEE! See? Yes. She wants to _watch_ the music. Hrumpth. So we continue to dance, disregarding the old badger, and what happens? She actually gets out of her bar seat and attempts to PUSH us off the floor! Now, if I wanted to be technical, her hand on my arm is considered assault, which would have given me full llicense to defend myself and my dancing partner from this attacker, but I kept my cool and repositioned my feet in my calf-high, 3" heel asskickers ready to boot (or just arm pin) the old coot.

Here's where things get weird - the other dancing couples (who hadn't been dancing yet) got up and started encouraging is to KEEP DANCING! and to hell with the biddy. Thankfully, the song came to an end and the singer started talking, noticing the interference it he back of the room. We sat down.

Nothing much else happened for the evening, save the old biddy leaving about 10 minutes later, clearly the destination of many a poop eye from the dancing couples.

So... Poll.

How would you have handled this?

[jwlinson]

Rally the troops. She can't make *all* of us get off the floor.

[fascination]

kept dancing until the need for cops...some folks, even old folks, can't hold their booze and get mean...shrug

[Zhena]

With the caveat that I don't really have much actual applicable experience;), I think the management of the venue would prefer to deal with a problem rather than have patrons get into a scuffle, and they have a good idea of when it's necessary to bring in the big guns (the cops).

But if your party includes a person who can carry it off, I like the idea of asking her for a dance, treating her like she is your slightly dotty but beloved aunt ... sometimes a pleasant response that completely ignores the other party's boorishness works wonders at improving their attitude.

[ThisIsNotMe]

I would have wanted to "rally the troops". But in reality, I might have meekly explained something about dance floors being for dancing, and then continued dancing.

[Purr]

Keep dancing.

[bordertangoman]

I have a fondness for old curmudgeons nearly being one myself ( still a few years to get the 'old' bit). But I wouldn't sit down its not a theatre or cinema. but I would try to find the old bat a chair where she could see while I was dancing.

And it might de[end on where and who she was; now if she was a crazy hillbilly with 10 sons and thirty grandsons all armed with shotguns who might just come around I would think carefully, but old folk can be a real pain. She sounds like Seymour's (principal Skinner) mother in the Simpsons

[Bailamosdance]

'Curmudegon' is not always a synonym for 'old' but in many cases it IS.

I sympathize a little with the old bat (LOL) in that it must be disheartening to not be able to dance and enjoy your body as you did when you were younger. However, acting out is NOT age appropriate for an adult of any age, and going to a venue that has a dance floor implies that dancers are welcome to dance. Therefore, no, it is not correct to be angry and demanding - even if you are too polluted to get up from the bar and move forward to look at the band.

[nucat78]

I'd rally the dancers but I'd be sorely tempted to tell her that if she touched anybody again, I'd snap her neck like a twig.

[atk]

I'd rally the dancers but I'd be sorely tempted to tell her that if she touched anybody again, I'd snap her neck like a twig.


nutcat, I can't tell whether you're serious or joking. For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're serious.

It's entirely up to you how you want to handle a situation. The key question is to decide what's important, and what's it worth. In that situation, what are the important items? Dancing is obviously one. Other considerations that you should make are survival (is the curmudgeon a complete nutter? Is she armed?). Do you care if you go to jail (threatening murder might land you in prison, depending upon the circumstances and the way the altercation continues to progress)? Do you care if you end up in court (people might hear your threat, but not hers, and court is extremely expensive, even when you're right)? Enjoying your evening is also on the list of things to do - do you really enjoy confrontations, or would it be in the way of your enjoying the night? And so is your partner enjoying the evening (very few women that I've met enjoy watching their men escalate confrontations - only those with a lack of class egg on their dates).

If you want to dance, remain alive, remain healthy, remain out of jail, remain out of court, enjoy your evening, and have your partner enjoy their evening, it behooves you to de-escalate the situation. Threats are a good way to escalate situations, and you never know exactly how far the other person is willing to go.

Of course, if life, health, jail, court, your enjoyment and your partner's enjoyment don't matter to you, then, by all means, pick a fight. Just remember, it's not possible to claim self defense when you help escalate.

[Wyndstorm Huntress]

While I'm quite annoyed by the poster's attitude about the whole thing, I don't think it was right for the older lady to try and push the dancers out of the way. If that were happening to me, I would have ignored her and let management take care of escorting the lady out and paying for her cab fare home (assuming she was intoxicated, which may be the case if she was at the bar).

If I were one of the non-dancing couples, I wouldn't have encouraged the dancing couple to keep dancing in the manner the OP described, certainly not with the attitude of "to hell with the old biddy". Instead, I would have alerted management to the situation and let them deal with it.

I would also point out that it is quite normal to go to venues where live music is being played to both hear *and* see the music. As a musician myself, I enjoy watching other musicians perform, as their physical capabilities are just as fascinating for me to watch as the sounds they make are for me to hear.

Finally, I would suggest to the OP that, her deity or deities willing, one day she'll be 70+ years old as well. Show the elderly some respect (and yes, that includes the curmudgeonly ones as well).

[fascination]

I have worked with the elderly most of my adult life...arriving at 70 isn't a reason in and of itself to demand respect...while I don't think it's ever acceptable to misbehave to some who is treating me poorly, I don't feel a special inclination to relent if they are older than myself...if there was a dance floor, albeit a small one, then there is every reason to dance...and no reason for anyone younger or older to come up and physically try to make their point further...certainly management should have been notified

[nucat78]

nutcat, I can't tell whether you're serious or joking. For the sake of argument, I'll assume you're serious.

Nope. Gotcha! ;) But your points were well put.

(My son is an atty - I've acquired some knowledge of the law by osmosis.)

[fascination]

actaully WH...I wish you hadn't deleted your post...I read it and I think it was very relevant...you are right that the language was unfortunate and ageist and the age irrelevant....I think there is actually alot of info in the OP that really isn't germaine to the issue...and I do think that it smacks of an ageist attitude that really isn't the point

[Wyndstorm Huntress]

Fascination - That's mostly why I decided to delete the post in the end, as this is a dance forum and not an elder issues forum. :) I felt commenting on how I would've behaved in a similar dance situation was an adequate enough response and that extending the issue (even though issues of ageism are relevant) was probably not worth getting myself into trouble for starting little fires.

[fascination]

good of you to be conscientous but it certainly is fair to point out that another relevant dynamic is factoring in...certainly if the thread went off on an "ageism today" tangent we would have to put it in dancer's anonymous instead...but the OP, admittedly an excerpt from elsewhere so hardly subject to criticism for conciseness, had lots of stuff including why whomever went with whomever to begin with, that was fairly superfluous to the ethical dilemma posed

[Wyndstorm Huntress]

Good to know for future reference. Thank you!

[fascination]

actually thank you...it is always good to have folks on the ball with valid and interesting points...and I can see now how you really had a good point about respect not being shown at least in the use of language if not in what actually happened

[wooh]

Was the crazy little old lady out of line? Yes. However, whether you feel elders demanding respect or not, thoughts of threatening violence to someone that would clearly be weaker than you (and I would say the average elderly woman is going to be weaker than the average person capable of dancing) is clearly out of line in most situations. I've had old ladies literally beating on me, even been bitten. But I didn't feel the need to as one poster put it, "snap their neck like a twig." An old lady yelling at me because I was dancing, surely isn't a situation that should bring up such a response.

[tsb]

my experience has prompted me to assume that the next person may not have the same expectations that i do; even within the dance world, i've encountered people with their own peculiar tunnel vision in terms of dance etiquette that left me scratching my head wondering: "where the ^$%#*& do they came from?".

for all we know, the "curmudgeon" in question may have spent more money on drinks than the four dancers all drinking club soda, in which case, it might well make sense for the venue management to ask the dancers to leave had things escalated; let's face it, any place that sells alcohol is *not* open to accomodate dancers - they're going to tolerate boorish behavior from big spenders as long as it doesn't affect the bottom line.

as a consequence, my general rule is not to expect dance etiquette at any place that sells alcohol. while the "curmudgeon" did behave badly IMO, i think the best thing that could have occurred would have been for one of the non-dancing dancers to offer the lady their seat if the view from that seat was not obscured by people on the floor.
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i used to attend a social dance where one lady routinely stood on the edge of the floor blocking LOD. she could see people coming towards her and just didn't give a rat's a-s.

during one dance she stepped out without looking and my partner would have hit her if i hadn't reached out, put a hand on this lady's shoulder and nudged her aside. after the dance, this lady actually ran after me, shoved me, and starting screaming not to touch her. i've never come closer to hitting a woman than at that moment.

this same woman had the nerve to ask me to dance at a subsequent dance. i declined.