How many people fly the friendly skies?

[Tinydancergirl]

Cause they are not looking too friendly right now! Delta and Northwest just posted big losses. Jammed flights, high fares, delays will affect airlines, customers. And of course, us ballroom dancers! So here's my question(s) for all you experienced travelers: We all know the costs involved in attending a comp. Costly, to say the least, not including your time and effort. So how does one prepare for the unexpected? Such as delayed flights, cancelled flights? I am a novice at airtravel and I am tentitively planning on attending Ohio in November. Is there such a thing as insurance for cancelled flights? How about trip insurance? I guess what I'm saying, in a nutshell, is there anyway to recoup losses in cases of cancelled, flights and events?
Tinydancergirl

[Katarzyna]

most airlines will refund you if they cancel your flight... but than you will miss your event... (or you can always to a LONG drive like we did 2 years ago for Ohio... and I mean LONG!!!!!! got there few hours before our event)

[Lorelei]

There is some insurance offered by priceline.com when you book a ticket. Change of plans, illness, etc. I never used it though... Does anyone have experience getting such an insurance and actually having the insured event occur? Is it worth it?

[skwiggy]

All I know is, NEVER check your costumes or your dance shoes. Always carry on. :)

[Mandicraft]

Cause they are not looking too friendly right now! Delta and Northwest just posted big losses. Jammed flights, high fares, delays will affect airlines, customers. And of course, us ballroom dancers! So here's my question(s) for all you experienced travelers: We all know the costs involved in attending a comp. Costly, to say the least, not including your time and effort. So how does one prepare for the unexpected? Such as delayed flights, cancelled flights? I am a novice at airtravel and I am tentitively planning on attending Ohio in November. Is there such a thing as insurance for cancelled flights? How about trip insurance? I guess what I'm saying, in a nutshell, is there anyway to recoup losses in cases of cancelled, flights and events?
Tinydancergirl

I fly about twice a week, so I'll try to help you out with your questions.

While you can't exactly prepare for the unexpected, here are some tips.
1. Always have important stuff with you in your carry ons in case of cancelled flights, missed connections or delays. This is stuff like medicine, costume, shoes, enough make-up and toiletries to get by and be under the limits of security check-points, and something to pass the time like a book, game, etc.
2. Know what other carriers and or flight options there are to your destination around the times that you need to be there. An search on a site like Kayak or Travelocity should give you all the info you need to be informed when talking to an agent about a cancelled flight, make sure to suggest them putting you on a flight with another carrier if they can't get you to your destination on time.
3. Always bring copies of hotel and car rental reservations so that you have the phone numbers to call and cancel if you're not going to make it for your reservation. Most hotels are fairly understanding about cancelled flights and won't charge you for the extra night if you can't make it due to a cancelled flight, but you need to call them as soon as you know. Rental car companies, as long as you haven't pre-paid through a discount site, don't even need you to cancel, but it's good to have the number if you need to change the pick-up time of your vehicle.

The trip insurance you're referring to is in case you get sick or have an emergency where you need to cancel your flight, not for the airline cancelling your flight. However if purchasing through a site like Orbitz where you pre-pay, this could be helpful for a cancelled flight since you pre-pay for all the items you book. I don't have a lot of experience with the discount sites since I use my work travel site for a lot of travel.

If your flight is cancelled the airline is required by law to get you to your destination, or if you choose not to go, give you a refund for your ticket. If you get stuck in a city that is not your home and the cancellation is not due to an "Act of God" such as weather, they are required to give you housing for the night. Most will also have overnight kits with toothbrush, toothpaste, etc to get you through the night if you don't have your own.

As far as getting a refund for an event if you miss it, I'm afraid that you are most likely out of luck with this one, unless the event itself will give you one. An airline is very unlikely going to reimburse you for this expense.

Please let me know if you have anymore quesitons.

[Larinda McRaven]

one word...


southwest

[Mandicraft]

One other addition:

Jet Blue has a Customer Bill of Rights that has what you receive if your flight is delayed or cancelled and they are very good about making sure you receive the compensation. I had a flight delayed after the Harvard competition last month and a couple of days later I had an email in my inbox with a discount code for a certain amount off for my next flight. So that won some points in my book.

[Joe]

one word...


southwest
Who unfortunately don't seem to go everywhere you need to go. ;)

[nucat78]

one word...

southwest

I'm with Larinda. I gave up on United and American. Avoid O'Hare if possible.

Worst thing that's happened to me on SWA is a flight into LA took an extra hour. But that was because we had 160 mph headwinds according to the captain.

[fascination]

Who unfortunately don't seem to go everywhere you need to go. ;)
an d have recently run into some fairly serious issues with the air traffic safety folks...man, gimme my caddy and some good tunes any day.....

[Joe]

Ahoy, land yacht! ;)

[fascination]

hop aboard mate :)

[Larinda McRaven]

Well I can't stand it that when I moved to Boston there is no SWA. You can't imagine the troubles I have had with the "regular" airlines flying out of here. High prices, delays, cancellations, being rerouted to cities that are deadends with no connection to get me home... just ridiculous.


I GLADLY drive back to Hartford to catch a SWA flight. And there are plenty of cities SWA travels to... Vegas, LA, StL, Austin, San Jose, Miami, Chicago, Nashville, Ohio, Philly...

[fascination]

gotta say...when I did fly, I far preferred to go through midway

[Laura]

The biggest piece of advice I have is do not cut your flight arrival time too short. There are people who fly into the competition city the day of their event to save on hotel rooms. That works great, so long as it works, but what if something happens and you can't get to the city that day? Flight insurance won't cover you missing your dance event. If you're not there, you're not there. I always fly in the night before if it's a short flight away, and a day or two before if it's cross-country.

Also, since you're new, make sure you understand the TSA rules for what you can bring in your carry-on before you pack. It will make getting through security so much easier.

[skwiggy]

an d have recently run into some fairly serious issues with the air traffic safety folks...

Which to me means that right now is probably the safest time to fly Southwest, since they are under strict scrutiny.

[fascination]

lol...you go ahead and do that :)

[skwiggy]

I will. May 29th and June 3rd. ;)

[Laura]

Everyone complains about all the airlines, as far as I can tell. I regularly fly US Air and United and I can't say that I have anything to complain about, whereas there are other people who will avoid them at all costs.

It does help that if you fly a lot to stick to one airline because you can earn frequent flyer miles, and on some airlines not only do the miles translate into an eventual free flight, but they can also get you better seating and shorter check-in and security lines, and get you out of paying the new $25 fee to check a second bag.

[Mandicraft]

It does help that if you fly a lot to stick to one airline because you can earn frequent flyer miles, and on some airlines not only do the miles translate into an eventual free flight, but they can also get you better seating and shorter check-in and security lines, and get you out of paying the new $25 fee to check a second bag.

Along the frequent flyer topic, I always suggest to everyone, that even if you don't fly a lot, make sure that you have frequent flyer accounts and get credit for every flight you take because you never know when they might add up to free flights. Also, check out who they're partners with, such as United and US Airways; or Continental, Northwest and Delta. Get one and get credit for flying on all their partners and you'll be surprised how quick it will add up!

I personally am a Continental airlines girl, I've been flying them or their partners fairly consistently for almost 10 years and still love them.

[Laura]

When I was living in Texas I flew Continental all the time. I still think they're the best of the majors but I only fly on them about once a year now. Where I live United/Star Alliance is the biggest carrier, so I switched to them since they go everywhere I want to go and because I can get miles with US Air and Lufthansa, who also fly out of my home airport.

There is actually a discussion board for airline nerds...and I admit to participating in it...www . flyertalk . com

[Mandicraft]

There is actually a discussion board for airline nerds...and I admit to participating in it...www . flyertalk . com

Definitely sounds like a place for me! lol

[Laura]

It's such a huge board that I only can keep up with reading the Mileage Plus (United) and Mileage Run forums. But you'll see me there as "Leela."

The other big piece of advice I have for flying is to remain calm. The people who are calm, know what they want and need, and know how to get around generally have a better experience than those who are frazzled, who have to repack their bags to get around weight restrictions, who know what size liquids they can bring on board, etc.

BTW, some web sites allow you to sign up for flight paging, where flight status information is sent directly to your cell phone. That's kind of cool, and if there's early news about a delay you'll get it even before you get to the airport. When it works. Sometimes I've gotten pages that have come 14 hours after I've completed my flight :)

[nucat78]

an d have recently run into some fairly serious issues with the air traffic safety folks...

As did American with their Mad Dogs (MD-80s). Canceled a lot of flights here.

[cantskiforlife]

As did American with their Mad Dogs (MD-80s). Canceled a lot of flights here.

From what I hear te MD80 issue is quite silly. The safety harness in the MD80's supposedly was a suggested change - not required.

I have also heard that the MD80s are rather good airframe so there is not much to worry about.

[cantskiforlife]

I fly every week and am about to switch to Northworst.

1. NONSTOP

2. Know your alternate flights incase yours is delayed. A lot of airlines will rebook you on other airlines (if they have some sort of deal). I had to use this after Ohio. American moved me to Delta because our plane was in the shop.

3. Know your airline policies and have the numbers on hand. If you do get delayed, you can sometimes call and have everything fixed even before you reach the front of the "guest services" line.

4. Along with #2, know the other airports, connecting airports you can fly to. In Boston, its sometimes helps to fly from manchester or RI.

5. There are also some smaller airlines that will take you from the local airports. At this point, the cost to even charter a small plane for a small group may be cheaper. Has anyone looked into this?

6. Definitely carry your gowns/ suits on the plan with you. Try not to gate check either. If you let the airline know that they are expensive, sometimes they will let you use their "extra" storage space.

7. Check in Early (online) to ensure you get decent seats. Even if you can't print your tickets, you can always have them reprinted at the ticket counter. I use this a lot.

8. In terms of Airlines....
US Airways has been a jerk to me lately.
Air Canada has been wonderful but United was a jerk with their points. (I still like them though).
Northwest seemed like a cattle herd. I will know more over the next few weeks.

9. Flights are getting expensive, but that all depends when you book. Boston to Detroit is costing me 1029 if I book a week in advance, 649 if I book 2 weeks in advance, 450 if I book 3 weeks in advance, and either 450 or 350 earlier than that. It may be worth looking at the price fluctuation for a week before you buy as the price may drop.

[Mandicraft]

The other big piece of advice I have for flying is to remain calm. The people who are calm, know what they want and need, and know how to get around generally have a better experience than those who are frazzled, who have to repack their bags to get around weight restrictions, who know what size liquids they can bring on board, etc.

Staying calm is definitely the best advice. I would especially extend that to saying that when dealing with gate agents and customer service reps, try to be as calm as possible. I know that you will be upset if you're risking missing an event, but being calm and working with the agents rather then being rude or mean will get you much further. Remember that 99.9% of the time, the person you're working with had nothing to do with that flight being cancelled or delayed, so don't take your frustrations out on them. You would be surprised how far you will get by being calm and friendly. Even if the agent is being rude with you, sometime killing them with kindness is the best approach, and if they have been really bad, take their information and report them later.

[Mandicraft]

I fly every week and am about to switch to Northworst.

I call them that as well, however they are a pretty decent airline. One of the bonus' similar to Continental is that they will give you an automatic upgrade if it is available once you have status with them. And if you have status with another airline and are switching to them, sometimes they will match that status if you call.

[Tinydancergirl]

Wow. Lots and lots of great information, everyone! Thanks! I definitely will carry my Latin dress with me. Shouldn't be a problem, as it's about as big as a handkerchief! :D I've googled trip insurance and found a great site: insuremytrip.com which shows many options regarding travel insurance plans. Being the worrywort that I am, I will probably get some, just in case.
Another question: has anyone ever missed an event? And if you did, and you went pro/am, were you obligated to pay your pro for services not rendered?

[fascination]

I almost had to ...and my answer would be that if he didn't have to make the trip and cancel his other obligations I wouldn't have...but if he had made the trip I would have paid him

[cantskiforlife]

I call them that as well, however they are a pretty decent airline. One of the bonus' similar to Continental is that they will give you an automatic upgrade if it is available once you have status with them. And if you have status with another airline and are switching to them, sometimes they will match that status if you call.

Did I say that? Oops :)

The bad thing is they don't have many partners. KLM? Hopefully the merger will provide more opportunities to use my points.

Oh, speaking of points....

If you do plan to fly overseas - try to use your points. 200,000 points for first class to austrailia is much better than $20,000.

[FatBaldGuy60]

But that was because we had 160 mph headwinds according to the captain.

Were you flying in a Hurricane hunter? 60 mph I could see, but 160? Hopefully it was a typo. :eek:

FBG

[Mandicraft]

The bad thing is they don't have many partners. KLM? Hopefully the merger will provide more opportunities to use my points.

They've been merged with Delta & Continental for a long time now for points, so their partners are now Aeroflot, Aero Mexico, Air France, Alitalia, China Southern, Continental, Czech Airlines, Delta, KLM & Korean Air. They also have a number of other that aren't code-share, but you can earn and use miles on.


Oh, speaking of points....

If you do plan to fly overseas - try to use your points. 200,000 points for first class to austrailia is much better than $20,000.

That's my plan....I have over a million with Continental right now and hope to book a trip to Austrailia in the next couple of years...first class!

[nucat78]

Were you flying in a Hurricane hunter? 60 mph I could see, but 160? Hopefully it was a typo. :eek:

FBG

Nope, 160 mph at 33,000 feet over Arizona. Dunno, would that have been the jetstream dipping south?

[Laura]

Another question: has anyone ever missed an event? And if you did, and you went pro/am, were you obligated to pay your pro for services not rendered?
Last year I tried to get to a comp on the East Coast and got stick in a huge blizzard. American Airlines simply could not get me to my destination on time to make it to my events, so I got my ticket refunded and that was that.

As for my teacher...well, he and his partner had flown out the day before and so were already at the comp. They had partly done this comp because I wanted to do it. I didn't even ask my teacher for the money back, because it wasn't his fault that I didn't get there to dance.

[Laura]

That's my plan....I have over a million with Continental right now and hope to book a trip to Austrailia in the next couple of years...first class!
Getting the actual tickets can be a PITA, though. I have enough miles on United for two first class tickets to Australia, but availability is so tight that I can't ever get seats. I've been trying for a year now. So I've kind of given up and instead am using my miles to go to London and/or Manchester. That's how I got to the UK Open in January, and how I'm getting to Blackpool this year.

[danceronice]

Re: frequent fliers, NWA takes almost everyone's. I get Delta SkyMiles from them. (Somewhere or other I still have AA milage programs, too, I think.)

PAY ATTENTION to what TSA allows/does not allow. This will get you through security way, way faster.

When possible, I never check luggage. From my brother, at USAir--if you are connecting through Philadelphia, do not check your luggage. It will not get there with you. The airport's notorious for its baggage-handling.

I nth the people who said "Stay calm." I'm a hysterically phobic flier, in that I've actually had panic attacks on takeoffs, but when it comes to the airport shuffle, delays, oversells, etc--there is no point in getting upset. Once you are "in the system", there is NOTHING you can do about it. You can only go along with the herd. Please, never get mad at the gate agents--they have no power over anything. They don't determine gate changes, oversells, boarding procedures, delays, but they take all the crap for it. I've only ever once been tempted to flaunt my access to my brother's corporate Rolodex, and that was dealing with a rude USAir baggage agent. (In the interest of full disclosure, my brother works in the department of USAir corporate that determines things like oversells--IIRC his routes are mostly Florida-based. There really is a system, it is not designed to screw the customers, and it really does usually work, except of course at peak travel dates.)

I also have had, in general, quite good luck with standby. NWA now has a self-standby service at the self-check-in kiosks that allows you to put yourself on standby for earlier flights. If you get aboard, there's a $25 charge, if you don't, you keep your booking on your later flight.

[Laura]

Note: If you get an earlier standby flight, there is no guarantee that your bags will be on the earlier flight. So I don't usually fly standby if I've checked bags.

There are exceptions, of course. I was flying on a 24-seat plane from Baltimore to La Guardia and went standby on an earlier flight. The US Air agent not only put in an electronic baggage change request, but she also called "downstairs" to someone in baggage and made sure they moved it for me. I figured it wasn't a big deal because they were dealing with small numbers of bags and passengers out at that end of the terminal. But if I were on a bigger plane with 100+ passengers I wouldn't do it if I needed my bag to arrive with me. Last time my bag went without me, even though American put in a diversion request, it took me five days to get my suitcase back.

[danceronice]

And this is why I don't check bags unless I MUST...I had to for Ohio. For Michigan I was able to mail all liquids.

And yes, I can get everything I need in a carry-on. Heck, I managed that for five days of bridesmaiding in a Texas society wedding, never mind a ballroom comp. (Seriously, how many events does one really need the week before a wedding? Apparently the answer is "A lot, and an outfit for each!"

[Peaches]

On option, instead of the check/carry-on debate, is to ship things separately. FedEx them to your hotel or some such. It's not particularly cheap, but FedEx does have a good track record.

[samina]

that's a good idea for gown & shoes, peach. i will remember that...

[Laura]

On option, instead of the check/carry-on debate, is to ship things separately. FedEx them to your hotel or some such. It's not particularly cheap, but FedEx does have a good track record.
They were 24 hours late getting stuff that had been overnighted from San Francisco to Baltimore for Nationals, which is why Registration opened up so late on Thursday...

I'd put a pair of shoes and my dress in a carry-on, and check the rest. You can always borrow/beg/buy makeup and hair products (take a taxi to a drug store near the comp location), but if your dress and shoes are gone you're stuck!

[Peaches]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of makeup and non-comp gear. I don't think I'd let gowns like that out of my hands. But given that they seem to be cracking down on number and size of carry-ons, and checking bags seems like such a crap-shoot...I'd ship other stuff. Carry the absolute essentials (purse, basically), carry the gowns, ship the rest.

[Chris Stratton]

I was actually thinking more along the lines of makeup and non-comp gear. I don't think I'd let gowns like that out of my hands. But given that they seem to be cracking down on number and size of carry-ons, and checking bags seems like such a crap-shoot..

maybe should wear the costume ;-)

[Mandicraft]

maybe should wear the costume ;-)

That just brought a funny picture to mind of Nationals weekend, planes full of guys in tuxedo's or open latin shirts and girls in beautiful gowns or skimpy sparkly outfits....lol

[nucat78]

if your dress and shoes are gone you're stuck!

Yeah, I'd be bummed if I lost my dress.

[Summer_Gray]

Delta just changed their baggage rules again - They only allow 1 bag in coach now... The first day they implemented the new system was the monday I was flying out of Emerald- so tons of people in line were freaking~ it was a huge mess xD

Also- they've just added a $3 fee per bag for curbside check in... which I think is really terrible- because you know it has to be killing the tips the guys are making 8\ How many people will pay that fee -and- tip? It's just dumb....

[RickRS]

Delta just changed their baggage rules again - They only allow 1 bag in coach now... The first day they implemented the new system was the monday I was flying out of Emerald- so tons of people in line were freaking~ it was a huge mess xD

Also- they've just added a $3 fee per bag for curbside check in... which I think is really terrible- because you know it has to be killing the tips the guys are making 8\ How many people will pay that fee -and- tip? It's just dumb....

Delta is the primary carrier at our regional airport, so that caught my attention. Delta's website said "1 bag and 1 personal item", for carry-on, with personal item being a purse, briefcase, laptop, etc. A coat or jacket can be carried on as well. http://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/baggage_allowance/index.jsp No difference in rules for coach or first class.

This seem to be the same rules I dealt with for past business trips so I'm not sure there's be a change so much as a crackdown on rule enforcement. Unless the website's out-of-date...

Delta is supposed to being really struggling to stay in business. So you can expect less and less service.

[Joe]

I don't recall any airline allowing more than one bag (plus one personal item) in coach previously...

[nucat78]

Yeah, I agree with Joe -it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

[etp777]

Yep. Some will let you have a second in first class, or in others if you pay extra, but always been one carryon to my memory. Least, in writing. sure as hell not a rule ev eryone seems to obey.

4 flights on three carriers in four countries, nothing lost. but I went the carryon only route. Trying a new airline in a couple weeks (Jazeera airways), we'll see how that goes in terms of delays, etc.

[Laura]

The new fees and number of bag restrictions the airlines are implementing aren't about carry-ons here, they are talking about checked bags. They used to let you check two bags, each under 50 pounds, as part of your coach ticket. Now they are changing it so you can only check one bag, and if you want to check a second you'd have to pay. United will be collecting a $25 fee at check-in for "non-status" fliers checking in more than one bag, regardless of the size or weight of the second bag.

Continental and Delta have followed suit.

Southwest used to let people check three bags, but now if you check more than two you have to pay $25 extra per additional bag.

As far as United goes, if you are flying Business or First class, or if you have Premiere or higher status in their frequent flier program, you won't be charged the $25 for the second checked bag.

I am not sure if these new rules apply to International flights as well as Domestic ones. Of course you can find out all the details on the airlines' web sites.

[hereKittyKitty]

Delta is supposed to being really struggling to stay in business. So you can expect less and less service.

Delta is based out of Atlanta where I live. They recently merged with Northwest and they seem to be on the rebound. They are offering more "for purchase" items on the plane in order to make up for high fuel costs and such. We flew on delta to emerald and the service was great.

As far as carry ons-They allow one carry on and one personal item for domestic flights. I put my dress, shoes, additional clothes, liquids bag and make up bag in the carry on. I carry a medium size purse so that when I get through security I can put the liquids bag and make up bag in my purse to avoid accidents with the dress. The clothes I bring are usually light travel clothes so they don't take up a lot of space. So far this has worked for me. Hotels usually have hair dryers, shampoo and lotion. Its not premium stuff but it gets you through a weekend of competing.

I did have an incident when flying from New York on delta. The flight was full and I had to check my carry on as I was getting on the plane as all of the overhead storage was taken. I have noticed that they are packing the planes as much as possible. The last few times I have flown, the planes were completely full.

[Laura]

The last few times I have flown, the planes were completely full.
The airlines have begun cutting flight frequency and even some routes so as to keep their planes full. United either has or will be grounding planes that they don't owe any money on (so it doesn't cost them anything not to fly them) so as to keep capacity high.

This is all going to get a lot worse before it gets better, if ever.

Last year, I was complaining that at ticket from San Francisco to New York was about $400. Now I'd be happy to find one for that. Last time I checked it was over $500.

[kayak]

Wow, I flew Northwest yesterday and customer are pissed. Nobody could get checked in because they had just changed to the new charge everyone who isn't rich enough to be in first class for extra bags. All I had was a box of material for my conference, but every single party took 3x as long getting checked in and came away pissed. Every mother in the country was fighting like hell to get their kids stuff on the plane without paying extra fees. The new United inspired bag fees really hurt a lot of people. I felt bad for them.

Then, people we trying to bring carry-ons that were too big. So there was a huge jam just getting on the plane. What a nightmare.

I understand United's Wallstreet investors want higher returns, but they set a precedent that is really a mess.

[RickRS]

The new fees and number of bag restrictions the airlines are implementing aren't about carry-ons here, they are talking about checked bags. ...

Hey, that's right; on Delta's website in baggage information they announced reduction from 2 checked bags to 1, effective May 5. Business Elite and First Class are allowed 3 checked bags.

quote by hereKittyKitty:
Delta is based out of Atlanta where I live. They recently merged with Northwest and they seem to be on the rebound. They are offering more "for purchase" items on the plane in order to make up for high fuel costs and such. We flew on delta to emerald and the service was great.

Glad to hear your flight went well. I hear of the merger being purposed, but didn't hear that it has actually happen, yet.

[hereKittyKitty]

Glad to hear your flight went well. I hear of the merger being purposed, but didn't hear that it has actually happen, yet.

Its not complete until the end of 2008 but, from what I read the employees are already receiving benefits. I guess my point was you can tell things are better by the morale among the employees. At least that was my perception.
This isn't to say everything is rosy, just better.

[hereKittyKitty]

The airlines have begun cutting flight frequency and even some routes so as to keep their planes full. United either has or will be grounding planes that they don't owe any money on (so it doesn't cost them anything not to fly them) so as to keep capacity high.

This is all going to get a lot worse before it gets better, if ever.

Last year, I was complaining that at ticket from San Francisco to New York was about $400. Now I'd be happy to find one for that. Last time I checked it was over $500.

Recently I looked up a ticket to Baton Rouge and it was going to be over $300-for an 1½ flight on a tiny plane.

We have considered taking Amtrak to some competitions. Its longer than flying but better than driving. Has anyone tried this?

[danceronice]

I took Acela from Boston to New York for Manhattan last year. It's lovely. And I've also used their first-class sleeper service to travel between Michigan and the East Coast, basically whenever I can spare the extra travel time. I love it. It's comfortable, there's no fussing with checked bags, and if you travel in the sleepers on overnight routes your meals are included and you get to sleep on a bed. I love train travel and plan to do it as often as I can.

[Larinda McRaven]

I just booked a $550 tickets to go cross country. I don't think I have ever paid that before.

My upcoming overseas tickets was $1600... but I suppose that doesn't really count. I think it is always expensive going to Asia.

[Zhena]

I did have an incident when flying from New York on delta. The flight was full and I had to check my carry on as I was getting on the plane as all of the overhead storage was taken. I have noticed that they are packing the planes as much as possible. The last few times I have flown, the planes were completely full.

I understand the need for starting to enforce the rules about baggage (after all, every extra bit of weight requires more fuel, and we all know what's been happening to fuel prices lately), but I wish they would just be CONSISTENT so I could plan.

I also wish they would get more serious about the carry-on situation. Maybe they could take a quick look as people try to board with extra carry-ons and ask them to make a choice -- either check the extra immediately or step to the side and wait for everyone who is under the limit to board and stow their stuff first. At least that way, the people who pack light could keep their stuff, and only the true overflow would get checked at the gate.

Just my two cents about one of my pet peeves.

[etp777]

$550 to go cross country, while it's only costing me like 1650 to go from Kuwait to chicago, spend a week there, then fly to rome, spend 4 days there, then back to Kuwait. The difference in cost is definitely not proportional to the difference in distnace/time.

[danceronice]

$550 to go cross country, while it's only costing me like 1650 to go from Kuwait to chicago, spend a week there, then fly to rome, spend 4 days there, then back to Kuwait. The difference in cost is definitely not proportional to the difference in distnace/time.

I decided to run this by an expert (ie my brother, USAir Yield Management Analyst and guru of all things airline, who is also conveniently on IM right now) and his explanation is: while prices always fluctuate from one flight to another, or from one SEAT to another depending on when you buy, it boils down to: there are more empty seats on the flights between KUI and Chicago, and Chicago and Rome, and Rome and Chicago, than on a flight from, say, Boston to Los Angeles. In the case of the flight to Kuwait, they would rather reduce the fare for that seat and at least get SOMETHING for the seat. Whereas on the BOS-LAX flight, chances are there are people who want the seats, so they charge something closer to a profit, or at least a break-even, price, because odds are someone will be willing to pay it.

In other words my brother gets paid to gamble with the airline's money--he bets that if they sell a certain number of seats on a particular flight (or if they oversell the flight by X number of seats) they will make a profit, not have to bump anyone, and get everyone from point A to point B, taking into account fuel prices, how many people fly the route on an average trip, how many no-shows the flight tends to have, what the weather's going to do, and a whole lot of other things. Whoever was making that decision for the airline flying from Kuwait to Chicago decided the only way they were going to get live passengers in the seats (and therefore make any money off them at all, as an empty seat maeks no money) was to set the price at whatever percentage it is of that $1650. Not as many people want those seats as want a seat on a domestic US flight, so the price is lower overall than the price of the domestic seat.

[etp777]

Certainly makes sense now. THanks, DOI. :)

[Peaches]

Interesting...

American Airlines plans to charge $15 for many passengers' first checked bag starting in mid-June

According to the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/21/AR2008052100304.html?hpid=moreheadlines).

[Mandicraft]

Interesting...

American Airlines plans to charge $15 for many passengers' first checked bag starting in mid-June

According to the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/21/AR2008052100304.html?hpid=moreheadlines).

Okay, they're just getting ridiculous now....nickel and diming wherever they can!

[nucat78]

Southwest.

I hate UA and AA. And O'Hare.

[Purr]

Don't fly.

Or drive. :car:


Just stay home instead.

[Chris Stratton]

Remind me to patent tele-competing...

[QPO]

Last time I flew internal in the US was 1987 so I can see nothing much has changed ;-). I do know that in Australia you can get travel insurance externally that may cover some of your concerns.

[Purr]

Remind me to patent tele-competing...

That sounds like a good idea. ;)

The escalating costs of travel, whether by car or airplane, might be a factor for some in deciding future competitions to enter.

[LucyDiamond]

Okay, they're just getting ridiculous now....nickel and diming wherever they can!
I agree! What are we supposed to do? They've restricted what you can carry on. NOW they want to charge for first bag checked. :mad:

[and123]

Wear a really large coat with huge pockets? :p

[Purr]

Wear a really large coat with huge pockets? :p

And how much attention do you want to draw to yourself from the TSA screeners? :eyebrow:

[Tinydancergirl]

That sounds like a good idea. ;)

The escalating costs of travel, whether by car or airplane, might be a factor for some in deciding future competitions to enter.

Well, it certainly is going to be a factor for me! With the airline travel in such a turmoil, who's to say what might happen in the next 3-6 months? Does one take a chance with the airlines and plan for a competition, say for Ohio, only to find out you can't make it due to airline problems? I am seriously considering using a car instead, although the cost of gas will be outrageous. But at least I know, barring any mechanical failure, that I will make it under my own power/devices and not be subject to the increasing erratic status of the airlines. Just the idea of losing my luggage or having my flight cancelled or delayed, after all the moneyand time spent to compete doesn't make much sense to me.
Tinydancergirl

[Joe]

And how much attention do you want to draw to yourself from the TSA screeners? :eyebrow:
Reminds me of the scene in Max Mad: Beyond Thunderdome (and prolly a hundred other movies) when he has to surrender all his weapons to enter some establishment, and keeps pulling weapon after weapon from various places on his person.

[fascination]

Remind me to patent tele-competing...
I know an excellent attorney who can help you with that;)

[fascination]

Don't fly.

Or drive. :car:


I do and I haul the posse's bags...you're welcome...and I get there before they do on a regular basis...and with a more relaxed countenence I might add

[etp777]

Certainly an advantage to doing only local comps. Though, if money allows and pro agrees, have stretched local to anywhere between milwaukee and Nashville, and the two other FA nationals in Orlando and Vegas. :)

[fascination]

thusfar the longest drives have been orlando and Va...but...things change ...we are going to switch it up a bit next year

[Purr]

thusfar the longest drives have been orlando and Va...but...things change ...we are going to switch it up a bit next year

Which comp in VA?

[nucat78]

thusfar the longest drives have been orlando and Va...

I'm surprised you preferred to drive to FL and VA. Those are long drives and I think I'd be more exhausted from driving that dealing with possible flight delays. I do think the worst part of any trip south(east) is between my place and the I-65/90/94/80 junction though.

I'll have to work out the estimated cost of gas roundtrip to FL compared to air/parking/etc just out of curiosity.

[TaraJones]

do you guys ever worry about the pollution put out by the airplanes, it's been on my mind lately

[fascination]

Which comp in VA?
we've done maryland and va state...haven't done capitol yet...probably next year...the timing is really bad for me

[fascination]

I'm surprised you preferred to drive to FL and VA. Those are long drives and I think I'd be more exhausted from driving that dealing with possible flight delays. I do think the worst part of any trip south(east) is between my place and the I-65/90/94/80 junction though.

I'll have to work out the estimated cost of gas roundtrip to FL compared to air/parking/etc just out of curiosity.I have a flexible job so I can take my time...and I have a very pleasant ride:car:

[nucat78]

Ah yes, The Fas-mobile. Caddy, I think you said. I guess if I still had a Bimmer, I'd be more inclined to drive (and probably get a few tickets along the way). My 3-series used to really snug down to the road at 85 and above. <sigh>

[sambanada]

I cant believe some are actually charging for the FIRST bag!!!!!! Even the second bag charge is a rip off.

[nucat78]

do you guys ever worry about the pollution put out by the airplanes, it's been on my mind lately

I saw an interesting public health paper on the stuff that was getting dumped on Evanston, Illinois by planes heading to/from O'Hare. Don't remember the details but a surprising amount of gunk was raining down, none of it healthy (and I don't mean blue ice from the toilets).

OTOH consider how much semi trucks and diesel buses emit.

[Phil Owl]

Call this Owl ticked off and completely disgusted with flying anymore, between being made to feel like a criminal for buying a plane ticket at all and then bad service (yeah Northwest, I'm talkin' about YOU!! :mad:), ridiculously narrow seats that were designed by an angry midget with scoliosis and a particularly harrowing turbulence-ridden ride on a twin-engined turboprop this past January, I have had it! :rolleyes:

My policy from here on out is AMTRAK or Greyhound, unless it takes more than 24 hours, then and ONLY then will I fly. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!! :headwall:

Sad thing is, I actually remember a time when flying used to be fun and enjoyable.

[Joe]

Was that in olden times when people would wear their best Sunday clothes to fly?

[Laura]

Was that in olden times when people would wear their best Sunday clothes to fly?
Heck, been to church lately? People don't even wear their best Sunday clothes on Sunday any more.

I still dress decently when I fly, although the concept of 'decent' has been downgraded over the years. I currently strive for 'business casual,' but I'll see other people (even in 1st class on non-overseas fights, so no long sleeping periods involved) in track suits.

[Peaches]

I'm waiting for them to get the point where they separate the men from the women into two separate rooms, make you strip down, and issue you hospital-type scrubs for the flight...all in the name of security.

[Phil Owl]

I'm waiting for them to get the point where they separate the men from the women into two separate rooms, make you strip down, and issue you hospital-type scrubs for the flight...all in the name of security.

Honestly, I don't think it's very far off. :rolleyes::mad:

[Phil Owl]

Was that in olden times when people would wear their best Sunday clothes to fly?

That was the case indeed up through the 60's that tradition survived.

[Peaches]

Honestly, I don't think it's very far off. :rolleyes::mad:Part of me wishes they'd just cut to the chase and get to it, then. Maybe then people would get all ticked off enough to see just how incredibly ridiculous things have become, and what they've been tolerating so far, and maybe push back and do something about it.

But this little-by-little, creeping approach to things is too easy to go so much further than people would ever accept otherwise. But because it's so incremental, no one notices, and the next thing you know we've given up too much with no hope of getting it back.

Sheesh. I should go back and re-read Animal Farm and 1984 and Farenheit 451 again.

[Ampster]

All this has degenerated into nothing more than an airbourne bus ride. Come to think of it, sometimes I think riding a bus is actually more pleasant...:confused:

[Phil Owl]

All this has degenerated into nothing more than an airbourne bus ride. Come to think of it, sometimes I think riding a bus is actually more pleasant...:confused:

Exactly, I had a far better experience on a Greyhound to and from Washington DC recently than ANY plane flight I've taken in the last few years. And AMTRAK is a far better experience than flying anymore.

[nucat78]

And AMTRAK is a far better experience than flying anymore.

First of all, I am very pro rail transport. But going through Chicago Union Station every weekday, one sees that Amtrak long distance trains can be subject to horrendous delays - 12, 16, even 20 hours. And Amtrak passengers have posted their share of horror stories as well.

Also if you have to travel overnight, price Amtrak sleeping rooms. Last trip, I could fly to LA and back 3 times for the cost of a one-way bedroom from CUS to LA. And I was in LA in 4 hours versus 2.5 days.

As much as I'd prefer to take the train, flying is generally my only reasonable option. Maybe one day the gubmint will kick the freight railroads' butts enough to force them to make Amtrak trains a priority like they ought to be and Amtrak will develop sufficient volume that they can price accommodations reasonably.

My last long distance trip on Amtrak was to Harrisburg, PA and back in coach. It wasn't horrible and I'd consider it again but I was a lot more tired at both ends than if I had flown. Prior to that, I just did some short trips from Chicago to Michigan and back and those were a breeze.

So I think Amtrak is great for daytrips and maybe an overnighter but beyond that, I'd much rather fly Southwest. I hate United and American and O'Hare.

Just my POV as a rail and air passenger.

[Laura]

First of all, I am very pro rail transport. But going through Chicago Union Station every weekday, one sees that Amtrak long distance trains can be subject to horrendous delays - 12, 16, even 20 hours. And Amtrak passengers have posted their share of horror stories as well.

Also if you have to travel overnight, price Amtrak sleeping rooms. Last trip, I could fly to LA and back 3 times for the cost of a one-way bedroom from CUS to LA. And I was in LA in 4
hours versus 2.5 days.
My mom & I tried to take Amtrak from San Francisco to Seattle about a month ago. We booked into sleeping accommodations, and the cost was about $265 per person This was for a 22 1/2 hour trip.

Well, when we got to the station, we were told that the train wasn't running all the way through and we'd have to pack up and get off the train about 12 hours into the trip, get on a bus for 4 hours, then get back on a different train for the rest of the trip. This greatly annoyed us, so we canceled the trip and rebooked for the next day on United. Even at the last minute, our tickets cost $150 per person, and the trip took under three hours (including weather delays at SFO).

We wanted to take the train, we really tried to take the train, but it just didn't work out and we had to get to Seattle by a certain date and time so we could catch the Alaska cruise we were taking together.

I've taken Amtrak many times, usually short routes (New York-Washington DC, New York-Philly, Philly-Washington DC, Washington DC-Boston, New York-Boston). A number of years ago I did Washington DC-San Francisco. Or at least tried to. When we got to Grand Junction Colorado, we found out that the tracks were out due to flooding in Nevada and western Utah, so we had a *THIRTEEN* hour bus ride that started around 9pm, rather than being in our nice comfy sleeping car.

So I'll do Amtrak for short routes (and I wish they'd get a high-speed line running between San Francisco and Los Angeles), but after going two-for-two on weather-induced bus rides I'd rather fly on the longer trips.

[Peaches]

Yup. As much as I like the idea of traveling by train, I've spent 8 years taking a commuter train. Given how many problems I've seen just on a short trip, there's no way in blazes I'd do much of anything longer than DC-NY. As bad as airline travel seems (or is, if you count the security crap), trains seem much worse.

[samina]

Huh...too bad...they could be so awesome. I guess rail's heyday is in the past...or the future.

I've said so many times I want to take the train from NY to Montreal. Listening to you peeps makes me seriously rethink.

[fascination]

First of all, I am very pro rail transport. But going through Chicago Union Station every weekday, one sees that Amtrak long distance trains can be subject to horrendous delays - 12, 16, even 20 hours. And Amtrak passengers have posted their share of horror stories as well.

Also if you have to travel overnight, price Amtrak sleeping rooms. Last trip, I could fly to LA and back 3 times for the cost of a one-way bedroom from CUS to LA. And I was in LA in 4 hours versus 2.5 days.

As much as I'd prefer to take the train, flying is generally my only reasonable option. Maybe one day the gubmint will kick the freight railroads' butts enough to force them to make Amtrak trains a priority like they ought to be and Amtrak will develop sufficient volume that they can price accommodations reasonably.

My last long distance trip on Amtrak was to Harrisburg, PA and back in coach. It wasn't horrible and I'd consider it again but I was a lot more tired at both ends than if I had flown. Prior to that, I just did some short trips from Chicago to Michigan and back and those were a breeze.

So I think Amtrak is great for daytrips and maybe an overnighter but beyond that, I'd much rather fly Southwest. I hate United and American and O'Hare.

Just my POV as a rail and air passenger.agree...midway is great when it's possible ...as for amtrak if you have ever been stopped for hours waitng due to a delay and stuck sleeping next to a stranger who hadn't showered or gargled in months, you would feel differently...let me tell you I have never been so grateful for the travel sized booze bottles in my whole life...kept expecting to wake up and find the dude's hand someplace it didn't belong....very very very long ride

[nucat78]

LOL! The Amtrak ride from Hell...

[Tinydancergirl]

It just keeps getting worse. Sigh. It's not a airline anymore, it's a freight line.

Airlines May Treat Passengers `Like Freight' to Beat Fuel Surge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...dEs0&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aJmRIapedEs0&refer=home)

[Laura]

Passengers have long been referred to as "self-loading cargo" by airline employees.

[Joe]

I occasionally moo in line. :)

[Peaches]

It just keeps getting worse. Sigh. It's not a airline anymore, it's a freight line.

Airlines May Treat Passengers `Like Freight' to Beat Fuel Surge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...dEs0&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aJmRIapedEs0&refer=home)

I'm sure freight lines have a better record of on-time arrivals.

[Joe]

I'd like to ship myself via FedEx. I'm sure they'll get me there faster. :)

[Peaches]

I've heard of a hippo being FedExed...makes me wonder if it would be possible to FedEx yourself. With the right shipping container you'd end up with more room than on a plane anyway.

[Larinda McRaven]

I occasionally moo in line. :)

somehow, I actually believe that...

[Laura]

With the right shipping container you'd end up with more room than on a plane anyway.
FedEx ships by weight and volume. Let's say you weigh 125 pounds and are carrying 25 pounds of gear. We'll put you in a box that is 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and 3 feet deep. To ship yourself from San Francisco to Boston in one day will cost $2771.16 according to my FedEx shipping software.

Meanwhile, an advanced purchase coach ticket from SFO-BOS costs about $385, and an advanced purchase first class ticket costs $1996. So it's cheaper to fly first class than to ship yourself, plus you get all these advantages:

special first class check-in line
first class passengers don't have to pay those stupid baggage fees
at many airports, special first class security line
bigger seat at the front of the plane
more leg room
don't have to pay for alcoholic beverages on board
get an actual meal that you don't have to pay for on board, served on real plates with real silverware

So looking at it this way, flying is CHEAP, even in first class.

[Larinda McRaven]

Plus the luxury of not traveling inside a coffin!

[danceronice]

I was about to say, six by three by three?

Though I have been kidding my brother for years (especially when poor Southwest got the crap kicked out of it for charging people who take up two seats for those two seats) that the airlines should just charge by total weight ferried, passenger and luggage.

Hey! They could tie this in with the war on obesity! Lose weight, fly cheaper.

[Laura]

If I had calculated it with a bigger box, it would have cost even more.

the airlines should just charge by total weight ferried, passenger and luggage.
They are considering it. I saw a news article about it today come across the AP news wires.

[Peaches]

Seems to me, if they charged what they needed to charge in order to stay solvent...and let the chips fall where they may...some problems would be solved. Sure, it would change the character of our lifestyle. Dramatically. But who's to say that's for the worse?

[danceronice]

They are considering it. I saw a news article about it today come across the AP news wires.

That's probably the Bloomberg article linked in Tinydancergirl's post above.

[Joe]

Plus the luxury of not traveling inside a coffin!
Yes, but think of the payoff of being able to rise to vertical from it when they take you off the plane, and turn to the handlers and say, "I vant to drink your blood!" ;)

[WorksForShoes]

Seems to me, if they charged what they needed to charge in order to stay solvent...and let the chips fall where they may...some problems would be solved. Sure, it would change the character of our lifestyle. Dramatically. But who's to say that's for the worse?


ITA, Peaches. The thing that bothers me most is the rather punative nature of the whole air travel experience, and airlines need to take control of this as much as they can to save their business.

To start with, I can't really dress for a flight or pack the way I wish, because when I get to security I"m going to have to take off my shoes and my jacket, lay out my laptop and purse, hand over my zip lock bag with my 3oz toiletries, and then try to reassemble at the end of the line. This isn't the airline's fault, but the net effect is that if I want to take my full-size hairspray or all of my makeup, I have to check a bag.

Then, the airlines take over, and now everything that might possibly contribute to my comfort or enjoyment of the experience is an extra charge. Check a bag? Charge. Sit by a window? Charge. Have a snack? Charge. How long until they make the bathrooms into pay toilets? The net effect is that I feel that I am a huge inconvenience unless I show up in sweats and flip flops, want to sit in a middle seat, and don't plan on wanting a drink or to take anything to my destination.

I understand the logic, I really do. The airlines can't do anything about security, and they can't do anything about fuel prices. But they can manage the experience of the flight. Charge what you have to charge, and go back to two checked bags, food service of some sort, and some decent legroom. I'll decide if it is worth the money for me to fly -- for some destinations, it certainly will. But sometimes it is better to have passengers say, "This cost $800, but it was a good experience" rather than "This cost $400, and I feel awful afterward."

[Laura]

Here's the thing, WorksForShoes, the airlines have found that the single most significant factor in getting people to chose a specific flight is price. So, and this started years ago, a "race to the bottom" began in Economy Class fares. People didn't stop flying in large enough numbers when legroom shrunk, when onboard meals stopped, etc. to make the airlines rethink this model. Price is king, and people really have seemed willing to put up with anything to get low fares. The only way this will change is if this baggage thing becomes the straw that breaks the camels back and people simply stop flying.

You say you are willing to pay more to get more comfort and better treatment. There is already an option for people who think this way: fly First Class or Business Class. Another option is to stick with one airline enough to earn 'elite' frequent flier status, which also gets baggages fees waived and special shorter check-in lines (and on United, gets you into Economy Plus, which gives you extra legroom). It costs more to pursue these options, but if someone truly is willing to pay more to have a decent level of comfort and service, then it can be had.

I actually think the price of coach tickets have been artificially low for quite some time, even before the cost of fuel skyrocketed. It's long been said that the airlines don't make their money on economy class, but on the premium seats, especially on long-haul international routes. In 1963 it cost my mother a little over $400 to fly from NYC to San Diego so she could marry my dad. Forty five years later, and until last year it was about the same price!

[Peaches]

Here's the thing, WorksForShoes, the airlines have found that the single most significant factor in getting people to chose a specific flight is price. So, and this started years ago, a "race to the bottom" began in Economy Class fares. People didn't stop flying in large enough numbers when legroom shrunk, when onboard meals stopped, etc. to make the airlines rethink this model. Price is king, and people really have seemed willing to put up with anything to get low fares. The only way this will change is if this baggage thing becomes the straw that breaks the camels back and people simply stop flying.

You say you are willing to pay more to get more comfort and better treatment. There is already an option for people who think this way: fly First Class or Business Class. Another option is to stick with one airline enough to earn 'elite' frequent flier status, which also gets baggages fees waived and special shorter check-in lines (and on United, gets you into Economy Plus, which gives you extra legroom). It costs more to pursue these options, but if someone truly is willing to pay more to have a decent level of comfort and service, then it can be had.

I actually think the price of coach tickets have been artificially low for quite some time, even before the cost of fuel skyrocketed. It's long been said that the airlines don't make their money on economy class, but on the premium seats, especially on long-haul international routes. In 1963 it cost my mother a little over $400 to fly from NYC to San Diego so she could marry my dad. Forty five years later, and until last year it was about the same price!Exactly my point. Between the race to the bottom, and the artificially low prices, it's no wonder airlines can't make money. People need to realize that it costs a good bit of money to fly.

[nucat78]

I actually think the price of coach tickets have been artificially low for quite some time, even before the cost of fuel skyrocketed.

Just a point of info, Southwest locked in fuel prices a couple of years ago with long term contracts. Smart move in retrospect.

[Laura]

True, but their contracts will not last forever. From 24/7 Wall Street, about a year ago (those fuel prices look so quaint...):
According to its last annual report here is the company's fuel hedge for forward years ("approximate" per barrel basis, as of mid-January):

2007 is 95% hedged at $50/barrel;
2008 is 65% hedged at $49/barrel;
2009 is over 50% hedged at $51/barrel;
2010 is over 25% hedged at $63/barrel;
2010 is over is 15% hedged at $64/barrel;
2012 is 15% hedged at $63/barrel.

So if you look at current prices with crude at $62.21, the company is much closer to coming online to current fuel prices than it has been in any recent year. Other airlines have managed to hedge a portion of their fuel costs as well. The truth is that Southwest STILL has what is probably the best fuel hedges for 2007 and 2008, but after that the relative advantages to the legacy and discount air carriers comes down drastically.

Also, it wasn't so much that they were "smart" about it, but they happened to have the available cash on hand to pay up front to land the fuel contracts. This from a 2005 article in Money magazine:

Southwest is virtually alone among U.S. airlines in its fuel purchase strategy not because it was smarter about the direction of oil prices, but because it had the money available to lock in the lower prices.

A track record of 14 straight years of profits has helped Southwest swell its cash on hand to $1.9 billion at the end of the first quarter -- while most larger airlines have already burned through much of whatever cash reserves they had after four straight years of deep losses.

"You have to have a strong balance sheet to do it," said Hayward, talking about Southwest's fuel purchase contracts. "Most others don't have anywhere near that balance sheet strength."

Of course, Southwest having a different and innovative business model that gave them 14 straight years of profits, thus allowing them to purchase long-term fuel contracts, is smart!

All in all, if there's one carrier that has the best chance to stay healthy and still exist in 10 years, its Southwest. They only fly domestic routes, though, so someone will have to still exist for International routes.

OMG, sorry, I'm an airline nerd.

[WorksForShoes]

You make a good point, Laura (and Peaches). Perhaps it is time to just rethink my strategy of automatically rejecting first and business class, and just pony up and buy them.

[Laura]

It's always good to comparison shop.

[WorksForShoes]

And it is true that I need to be more decisive as a consumer. Rather than blindly following a decision I made in about 1988 that I needed to fly coach, I should calculate my enjoyment factor of the transportation options available in the same way that I look into accommodations and dining. And since most of my travel is discretionary, I can do that. Thanks for the nudge out of the rut.

[Laura]

Here's a good example: The other day I booked a ticket from San Francisco to Helsinki. Getting from one to the other involves an 11 hour leg from San Francisco to Munich, a two hour connection, then a 2 hour leg to Helsinki. A coach ticket was $1544. However, a business-class fare sale was going on, and I got business class for $1945. On the one hand, $400 is a pretty big chunk of change. On the other hand, when the sale ended the fare went up to over $3600. I thought the $400 was worth it for the added comfort on 26 hours worth of flying.

It also pays to keep trying. I just checked my Helskini dates and the fares have shifted again, coach is now $1374, and business is showing at $3118. Sometimes it's possible (not in my case) to refare if the price drops after purchase.

Yield management of airline fares must be a fascinating line of work.

[Joe]

I heard a story on NPR this week that said (according to the Air Transport Assoc.) that since deregulation (3 decades) the airlines have lost more than $13B.

[Peaches]

I heard a story on NPR this week that said (according to the Air Transport Assoc.) that since deregulation (3 decades) the airlines have lost more than $13B.Ha! DH and I were just talking about that last night. Do you happen to remember if that's in constant dollars or not?

[Joe]

Nfc.

[Chiron]

United just announced they are going to be charging $15 for the first bag. I'm wondering how much longer till we are all weighed and charged an extra $/lb. I would prefer them to raise the price of all the tickets and stop nickle and diming us.

[nucat78]

I heard a story on NPR this week that said (according to the Air Transport Assoc.) that since deregulation (3 decades) the airlines have lost more than $13B.

Curious how much was due to fuel costs and how much was due to bad management.

I know a flight attendant who was with United for several years, transfered to Boston from ORD, went to Continental because morale at UAL was so bad and then just quit. She's hanging out at home in Orlando until the airline brew-ha-ha dies down some. Kids are all grown, etc so she's not too concerned about $$ yet.

[kayak]

I worked in the natural gas industry during deregulation under Bush I and Clinton I. Executives always think the idea of being deregulated means unlimited profit potential. It never works out. Moral was terrible and profits were scarce. Formerly proud companies looked like a shell of their former self. Being regulated guaranteed 18.5% ROR on their infrastructure. What industry can sustain that kind of profit year in and year out. I think a smart executive would kill to have a regulated profit stream.

[Peaches]

On the subject of airlines charging for the first checked bag, United and US Airways are now going to start doing the same thing, according to this report (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/business/13bags.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) by the NY Times.

[Laura]

I think I'm going to start selling my baggage allowance :) I fly enough on Star Alliance that I have "status" on their airlines and therefore get to check two bags without fees. If United and US Air are going to charge people $15 for the first bag, I could sell my space to someone for $10 :)

[Standarddancer]

I think I'm going to start selling my baggage allowance :) I fly enough on Star Alliance that I have "status" on their airlines and therefore get to check two bags without fees. If United and US Air are going to charge people $15 for the first bag, I could sell my space to someone for $10 :)

super smart business idea:)

[tj]

Apparently US Air is now going to start charging $2 for soda and $7 for alcohol + $25 to redeem your frequent flyer miles for a flight.

[danceronice]

All beverages on all USAir flights are now sale only, and they are adding the bag charge.

Given that their financial position is not the greatest, this is not surprising.

[tj]

So get this...

Typically, I'll go fly to visit friends and family in other cities once or twice a year. This lets me save by not getting a hotel room, as well as leaving the dates flexible.

Usually, I'll pick dates by the cost of the flights. In the past, I have found that I can save $20-50. Not so this time. All the prices were about the same. But at least they were reasonable. Instead, this time it was the rental cars that made me determine my schedule.

Usually I can find a rental car for $20-40/day pretty easily. However, this time, for whatever reason almost all of the rental car agencies wanted $70+/day. Yikes!

I finally found a $30/day from one of the rental car agencies, but I had to play around with dates in order to qualify. Friday to Monday was no good, but Thursday to Monday worked just fine. Something's wrong when a car company wants you to pay $300 for a 4 day rental, but only $150 for a 5 day rental for the same weekend.

[Nvm]

My children live in various parts of the country. My family is in the south. I have no choice. The prices are crazy, but I have to cought the money up and go.

[Tinydancergirl]

Goodbye, Ohio comp if this goes into effect.
Air fares could double if oil prices keep rising

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.37696be.html (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/061408dnbusairlines.37696be.html)

[Laura]

Goodbye, Ohio comp if this goes into effect.
Air fares could double if oil prices keep rising

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.37696be.html (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/061408dnbusairlines.37696be.html)


You could buy your tickets now before prices go up -- many airlines will book 330 days in advance. I just bought most of my plane tickets from now until the end of the year.

[Tinydancergirl]

You could buy your tickets now before prices go up -- many airlines will book 330 days in advance. I just bought most of my plane tickets from now until the end of the year.

Wish I could. Unfortunately, Southwest, the airline I use, doesn't book any flights past October, or I would have already bought. I guess it's a wait and see situation for me.

[Laura]

I wouldn't worry about Southwest's fares doubling just yet. They still have a good portion of their fuel costs hedged with long-term fuel contracts. I think they're good for another year or two.

[Laura]

Speaking of friendly skies...I'm actually sitting on the plane and posting this. Las Vegas airport has free wi-fi and it reaches onto the planes at the gate!

Ooops, they just shut the door -- gotta go!

[samina]

I DF'd from the plane on Friday due to long delays.

Also, had my first security confiscation this week...my fave wine opener I've had for around 20 years. I usually take with when I travel, but I normally check my bags. This time I decided to check at the plane door on a gate claim. Caused a bit of a furor when xray scanning found the objectionable item...

[Laura]

I'm very pleased with myself today. This is the first comp I've flown to since the TSA "liquids and gels" rules were instituted where I was able to pack only a carry-on. I found under-3 oz. versions of mega hold hair gel and a decent brand of hair spray, so those went in the ziplock bag along with the rest of the stuff. I even discovered I had a 2-oz tube of self tanner! It's for faces, but what the heck, it's all skin and it fits in that ziplock.

In the past I've always felt kind of stupid for checking a half-empty suitcase just so I can get my gels, hairspray, and tanner on the plane. Plus, I hate waiting for my bags at the baggage claim. Well, if the products I'm using this time work out, then I can avoid this in the future :)

[Standarddancer]

so Laura, how did the < 3 oz things working out? I was thinking of doing so too but just realized for each comp we definitely use more than half bottle of 6.7 oz hair spray so I know at least it's almost impossible for us to pack < 3 oz hair sprays.

I Also hate waiting for my bag at baggage claim.

[skwiggy]

so Laura, how did the < 3 oz things working out? I was thinking of doing so too but just realized for each comp we definitely use more than half bottle of 6.7 oz hair spray so I know at least it's almost impossible for us to pack < 3 oz hair sprays.

I Also hate waiting for my bag at baggage claim.

But you can pack more than one 3 oz bottle of hair spray. ;)

[Laura]

Oh, it worked out great for me! It was such a convenience to not have to check the bag. I guess I don't use as much hair spray as you guys because I still have enough spray and gel for another trip.

I'm going to do the "no check" thing for my next comp, especially since it involves a change of planes.

[delamusica]

Just got my tickets for Christmas!!

It will be my first time going to visit my family since the first week of June 07. :D

[Standarddancer]

But you can pack more than one 3 oz bottle of hair spray. ;)

now they allow > 3 oz hair spray? for domestic flight only? what's the new rule?

I remember 2 years ago I had to pack liquid liner and mascara to checked luggage for international flight.

[SDsalsaguy]

I think the point being made was that while each hairspray is limited to 3oz, you can certainly pack several such 3oz bottles. ;)

[Laura]

Exactly, SD. I went carefully through what I bring to a comp, and I was able to get the following into that 1-quart plastic ziplock bag for "liquids and gels":

mascara
liquid eyeliner
travel-size tube of LA Looks Mega Hold Gel
travel-size can of Tre Semme Hair Spray
bottle of liquid foundation
gel deoderant
small tube of tanner (the "for faces" stuff often comes in < 3oz. bottles)
tube of eyelash glue
small bottle of makeup remover

All my other makeup is "dry," so I put it in a different bag inside my carry-on, no problems there.

A dance partner could pack his own ziplock bag with his own travel-size hairspray etc.

[samina]

you're such a good little planner. ;)

impressive. i make lists and organize myself but... just marginally. am very much a toss-n-go sort.

[Laura]

Oh, I toss-n-go. I was just saying what gets tossed in the ziplock!

[nucat78]

small bottle of makeup remover

Does soap and water not remove the makeup? Or is it a case of not wanting to get too dried out?

[samina]

Oh, I toss-n-go. I was just saying what gets tossed in the ziplock!

lol. nice.

[samina]

Does soap and water not remove the makeup? Or is it a case of not wanting to get too dried out?

reminds me...i was still finding eyelash glue emerging from my lashes as of last night. where does that stuff hide????

[nucat78]

Same place as the skin mites.

[samina]

ew... okay, you can go now...:mad::rolleyes:

[nucat78]

Roger that. I'm "bingo Winchester" anyway...

[Laura]

Does soap and water not remove the makeup? Or is it a case of not wanting to get too dried out?
Not wanting to get too dried out. My skin is pretty delicate and on top of that I'm developing broken capillaries and rosacea (happens to the women on both sides of my family), so I have to be very careful.

[Standarddancer]

Exactly, SD. I went carefully through what I bring to a comp, and I was able to get the following into that 1-quart plastic ziplock bag for "liquids and gels":

mascara
liquid eyeliner
travel-size tube of LA Looks Mega Hold Gel
travel-size can of Tre Semme Hair Spray
bottle of liquid foundation
gel deoderant
small tube of tanner (the "for faces" stuff often comes in < 3oz. bottles)
tube of eyelash glue
small bottle of makeup remover



absolutely smart list!!! However I have trouble to find travel size can of TreSemme Hair spray, I checked Duane Reade again this morning, the smallest bottle is 6 oz.

btw, I've never put eyelash glue separate into zip lock bag for domestic flights, and never problem. Usually eyelash glue around 1 oz, too small for them to worry, i guess.

I don't use liquid foundation, I use stick foundation from Benefit which is long lasting and considered "non-liquid", so I don't need to pack to zip lock bag;(

[Standarddancer]

reminds me...i was still finding eyelash glue emerging from my lashes as of last night. where does that stuff hide????

oh girl, you need to remove eye makeup thoroughly!!! use a good non irritating eye makeup remover. Not just soap & water or facial cleanser. Use something specifically for eyes.

Also don't use eyelash glue or mascara older than 3 months, I had an irritating eyelid over the weekend and went to see eye doctor, doctor told me not to use cosmetics over 3 months old since once the bottles opened, there cosmetics could have chemical reactions with the bacterias in the air.

I now have to throw out my old eyelash glue which is more than one year old and I re-purchased a mascara, and eyeliner, damn, costly to replace eye makeups every 3 months:(

[Standarddancer]

A dance partner could pack his own ziplock bag with his own travel-size hairspray etc.

If I wait for my dance partner to do so, it won't be done until last minute, and he forgot things and always ended up "borrow" mine. So I guess either I pack 2 zip lockers including mine and his, or pack larger potion of everything for checked luggage.

[Laura]

absolutely smart list!!! However I have trouble to find travel size can of TreSemme Hair spray, I checked Duane Reade again this morning, the smallest bottle is 6 oz.
I got mine at Long's which is kind of the West Coast equivalent of CVS. The Long's here are as big as supermarkets, though, and have a whole section of travel size items that are kept separate from the regular items. So, if you go back to Duane Reade, ask if they have a travel size area -- don't just look in the regular hair care area.

[skwiggy]

However I have trouble to find travel size can of TreSemme Hair spray, I checked Duane Reade again this morning, the smallest bottle is 6 oz.(

I buy my hairspray in the super economy size, something like 32 oz, and just refill old bottles. For travel I buy 3oz generic spray bottles and fill them up from the big bottle.

[Standarddancer]

I got mine at Long's which is kind of the West Coast equivalent of CVS. The Long's here are as big as supermarkets, though, and have a whole section of travel size items that are kept separate from the regular items. So, if you go back to Duane Reade, ask if they have a travel size area -- don't just look in the regular hair care area.

Thank you. Will check again for travel section again, heck, Duane Reade near me is HUGE, will check later;)

[Standarddancer]

I buy my hairspray in the super economy size, something like 32 oz, and just refill old bottles. For travel I buy 3oz generic spray bottles and fill them up from the big bottle.

smart...

[skwiggy]

The site I gave you for eyelashes is the store where I buy the empty bottles I use for travel. I put everything I own into bottles 3oz or less from that store and manage to fit into a ziplock and not check bags. I have to get creative sometimes, but so far it has worked out ok.

[Standarddancer]

so far I only use that site for fake eyelashes. Ricky's in NY sells travel sized empty bottles so I mostly get from there.

[cornutt]

Just got an email from Delta that the merger with Northwest is official.

[nucat78]

iflyswa_dot_com

Say what you will about cattle cars but I do so loathe AA and UAL. Used to fly Delta just to thumb my nose at 'em.

[cornutt]

Southwest doesn't fly here, unfortunately.

[elisedance]

where do these threads come from? I dont think I've landed here before.

HATE air canada - and it used to be the best airline. Now you can fly coast to coast without getting as much as a peanut.

LOVE porter air lines. Its tiny with only 6 prop (nice bomadiers) planes but it flies off Toronto island which means no lines on the express way getting to the airport (how can the larges city in Canada have an airport without any train service?

Maybe I should continue on the whining thread.......

[tsb]

while i *have* flown united, i have not become a member of the mile high club .

[elisedance]

while i *have* flown united, i have not become a member of the mile high club .

I think that needs its own thread.... personally, I'm waiting for the plane private rooms with showers...

[cornutt]

LOVE porter air lines. Its tiny with only 6 prop (nice bomadiers) planes but it flies off Toronto island which means no lines on the express way getting to the airport (how can the larges city in Canada have an airport without any train service?


I imagine it would be pretty expensive to build a tunnel to Toronto Island.

Speaking of building tunnels, how far have they got the Sheppard line running now? Did they ever decide if it was going to cross the Don Valley?

[Laura]

I'm waiting for the plane private rooms with showers...
Singapore Airlines A-380's have private cabins for two. Upcoming service from Los Angeles to Singapore, and eventually San Francisco to Singapore.

[Larinda McRaven]

Oh I love the Singapore Airlines uniforms. I have an outfit and actually wear the top occassionally. The skirt is too cumbersome though.

[mamboqueen]

how, praytell, did you get your hands on that??

[Joe]

From her former career as a stew. ;)

[cornutt]

Larinda, you were an FA? When was that?

[Standarddancer]

Have anyone ever got or used Delta credit vouchers? We got 2 vouchers for $400 each person because on our way back from Utah to NY last week, the Sunday morning flight was overbooked, and needed several volunteers to give up their seats and Delta would give credit of $400 per person for compensate such inconvenience. We thought it's good deal so we gave up our seats for the morning flights, stuck in Utah airport until the next flight which is late afternoon and got credit vouchers.

We were told these vouchers are good for either domestic or international (without blackout dates) and if we book at Delta.com, no fees. But when I tried to book a future flight on Delta.com, I don't see any where in the payment method field allowing me to enter the voucher number, I emailed customer service several days ago, but no response, and there is not even a phone # listed on Delta website which I could call:(

I met a friend at airport and he advised me not to take the credit vouchers since he's got credits like this from U.S. airway, he said it was really difficult to use the credit vouchers because U.S. airway had blackout dates, it took him a year to use it. and he said Delta service is even worse than U.S. airway?

I took the crediit vouchers anyway after Delta ticketing agents told me no blackout dates. Anyone else here have experience with airline credit vouchers? is this a bad deal that I should avoid in the future?

[Laura]

I've used vouchers like this on Northwest and United's web sites with no problem. For United you have to go to the point where you are ready to put in your credit card number and it asks you if you have an "ECertificate" to apply. I forgot how Northwest's worked out -- I think it was similarly -- you have to already have picked the flights before you see where you put in the voucher information.

OKAY, so I just did a booking (which I then let expire without paying for) and think I figured it out.

When you get to the payment page, look right down below where it asks for your credit card billing address. You'll see something that says "eCredits." Click the little link that says "eCredits" and see if the information given in the pop-up window makes sense for the voucher you got.

If that doesn't work, CALL Delta reservations and ask them how you are supposed to used the voucher. Don't actually do a booking, just ask them how you are supposed to use the voucher. I've found that emailing the airlines with questions basically doesn't work ever.

[Standarddancer]

You are right Laura, I do see "ecredits" right below credit payment info, but no lines for me to enter the voucher numbers although I check the box "use ecredits as payment"; guess I have to call Delta tomorrow:( well, as least I'm on the right track:)

[NURDRMS]

I flew United last night from Vegas to Denver and we hit some pretty bad, unexpected turbulence. Actually got an email from UAL later in the evening, apologizing for the 'scare.' Too bad a free ticket didn't accompany the apology! :p

[cornutt]

You are right Laura, I do see "ecredits" right below credit payment info, but no lines for me to enter the voucher numbers although I check the box "use ecredits as payment"; guess I have to call Delta tomorrow:( well, as least I'm on the right track:)

I think you have to check that box and then go to the next page. That's where you will enter the voucher numbers. If the voucher doesn't cover the whole cost of the ticket, it is supposed to take you back to the payment page where you put in the credit card to bill for the difference.

[Standarddancer]

I think you have to check that box and then go to the next page. That's where you will enter the voucher numbers. If the voucher doesn't cover the whole cost of the ticket, it is supposed to take you back to the payment page where you put in the credit card to bill for the difference.

the voucher amount is more than enough for the ticket, however, seems without entering credit card #, it did not even let me go to the next page.

[cornutt]

the voucher amount is more than enough for the ticket, however, seems without entering credit card #, it did not even let me go to the next page.

Once you put in a CC#, did it work? I'm curious, but not curious enough to go mess with it myself. :wink:

[3wishes]

It is a multiple step process. On that first screen (which you found) you need to input a credit card number and check the eCredit box. At this point it hasn't looked up the eCredit info yet, so it will require the cc number.

The next screen is where you get to see all available eCredits (or maybe you input search info and there is one more screen; I haven't done this is a week!). You then select the eCredit you want and it will automatically then use only that eCredit and not the credit card. You do get to review the final accounting before you give the final OK. If all else fails - call customer service they will walk you through the process - I've never had a problem.

[Standarddancer]

I was scared to enter the Credit card number, afraid of them charging me; well at this point I'm just messing with them to see how easy to use the credits, and to ask fellow Dfers' opinions about how easy to use such credits for my future info. I haven't make up my mind about our next travel plan (that's another reason I was afraid of messing with my credit card or voucher with trips I'm not sure about), better ask here first:)

thank you Laura & 3wishes for sharing your experience, now I'm fairly comfortable that these vouchers are pretty okay to use:) when I finalize my travel plan, I'll do what you say: enter CC # and check box before enter the next page:)

[3wishes]

Your welcome (-:, Keep in mind - credit/voucher end-users, such as yourself, need to check well in advance of travel dates - for your own sanity - call customer service and ask for the "rules" of redemption of credit vouchers - much like the weather in Colorado it can change without notice (-: .Several airlines will allow you to use the voucher only if there is room for you on your desired flight. Some airlines - much like redeemption points, will only allow you to fly certain days/times - not all airlines. Happy and safe travel to you.

[Larinda McRaven]

Larinda, you were an FA? When was that?

no........ Joe is being cheeky.

[Standarddancer]

sorry I have to ask those Delta ecredits again, with the help of all of you, I successfully booked flights for next trip, but unfortunately we have to cancel now. tickets are exceeding the value of ecredits, so I charged on credit card total of $227 for 2 tickets in addition of the usage of ecredits.

does anyone know if I will get the ecredits or the money back from Delta? The tickets I booked they marked nonrefundable, but I recall from reading some other policies from Delta site, which indicated I can get vouchers back in case of cancellation. Anyone had experience? Thanks again.

[Larinda McRaven]

SO HAPPY!!!

Southwest is Coming to BOSTON!!! When I moved here I almost gave up on them altogether. But now I can finally fly cheap and without cancellation or rebooking fees.

I ❤ SWA.