Ballroom dance - an essential social skill?

[pygmalion]

While I was out googling yesterday for dance camps for myself, I ran across several summer camps for children that teach ballroom social dance. One was a YMCA, just teaching kids for fun. Another was an etiquette camp, whose stated purpose was to teach kids the essentail social skills -- table manners, proper social behaviors and ballroom dance.


What do you think of that? Is ballroom dance an essetial social skill, for kids or for adults? Why or why not?

[KevinL]

Is dancing an essential social skill for Americans? No. Almost no-one dances socially, so how could it be considered an esential skill?

Should dancing be an essential skill? Yes, even if people only know the basics of a couple of common dances.

Once I get to a place where I'm able to earn a living teaching (and not have to have a day job to pay the bills) I'm planning to start teaching after-school programs at local area middle and high schools. Maybe in a year or so.

Kevin

[Sagitta]

Ballroom dancing should be a social skill taught to all. :)

[Genesius Redux]

Absolutely it should be! Look at the resurgence of interest in dance in the 90s--people are hungry for connectedness!

A lot of it I blame on the 60s and early 70s--I'm pretty left-leaning, but it seems that much of the legacy of that time has been the cynical dismissal of all form, all structure, as some kind of evil imposition. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids ways of interacting together in a structured way.

If dance were taught in schools, how much better would school dances be? How much happier would people be if in their 20s they had some alternative to bar hopping? Dang right--should be part of a Physical Ed curriculum, along with gymnastics, team sports, and martial arts.

[LindyQuest]

A few weeks ago, my regular Friday night venue was visited by about 50 junior high and high school students - it was so cool! Apparently, at this school there is a swing dance elective. Some of these teens had already been taking these dance lessons at school for three or four years! I sure wish there had been something like that when I was in school...

[mhgroove]

Absolutely it should be! Look at the resurgence of interest in dance in the 90s--people are hungry for connectedness!

A lot of it I blame on the 60s and early 70s--I'm pretty left-leaning, but it seems that much of the legacy of that time has been the cynical dismissal of all form, all structure, as some kind of evil imposition. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids ways of interacting together in a structured way.

If dance were taught in schools, how much better would school dances be? How much happier would people be if in their 20s they had some alternative to bar hopping? Dang right--should be part of a Physical Ed curriculum, along with gymnastics, team sports, and martial arts.

I totally agree with your post, Genesius! I'm pretty right-leaning myself. Since the mid 60's, there has been this dismissal of all form, structure, conduct, and rules in the name of freedom!!! Whatever! I wished I would have learned ballroom dancing as a social skill when I was kid. I believe it would have made a difference!

[pygmalion]

I think that ballroom, swing or salsa should be offered as an option to kids instead of PE. It will give them social skills, for sure. But it's also physical exercise, perhaps on a life long basis.

[Spitfire]

It is not essential, but sure does go a long way. :D 8)

[Genesius Redux]

I think that ballroom, swing or salsa should be offered as an option to kids instead of PE. It will give them social skills, for sure. But it's also physical exercise, perhaps on a life long basis.

Instead of PE? :shock:

Surely you jest, Jenn--as you say, dance is exercise, and can sometimes be pretty vigorous exercise at that!

Well, it's late--good night to you!

G

[dancin_feet]

I wouldn't say instead of PE, but as a part of the whole physical education program at the school, definitely yes.

[pygmalion]

I think that ballroom, swing or salsa should be offered as an option to kids instead of PE. It will give them social skills, for sure. But it's also physical exercise, perhaps on a life long basis.

Instead of PE? :shock:

Surely you jest, Jenn--as you say, dance is exercise, and can sometimes be pretty vigorous exercise at that!

Well, it's late--good night to you!

G

Good morning to you! :wink:

No, I'm not kidding. I've seen a few articles on the web about schools that already offer dance as an alternative to traditional PE classes. I'll google and see if I can find the articles again. It can be done. And, in my somewhat biased view, that would be a much better way of ensuring lifelong fitness. People can and do dance well into their eighties. But what percentage of people continues to play vigorous football, volleyball or even badminton into their eighties? Some people do, but not as many as would dance, I bet. (Okay, so my view is extremely biased. What can I say? LOL.)

[etchuck]

I think one can certainly argue dance classes in lieu of aerobics. A couple of gyms that I know of have workouts to salsa music.

My old high school was into "lifetime sports" such as golf or tennis. I can see the argument, though I don't know if that would be good for a bunch of hyperactive hormonally-driven teenagers. :?

Besides, I need a place to learn to do aerials. :)

[Genesius Redux]

I think that ballroom, swing or salsa should be offered as an option to kids instead of PE. It will give them social skills, for sure. But it's also physical exercise, perhaps on a life long basis.

Instead of PE? :shock:

Surely you jest, Jenn--as you say, dance is exercise, and can sometimes be pretty vigorous exercise at that!

Well, it's late--good night to you!

G

Good morning to you! :wink:

No, I'm not kidding. I've seen a few articles on the web about schools that already offer dance as an alternative to traditional PE classes. I'll google and see if I can find the articles again. It can be done. And, in my somewhat biased view, that would be a much better way of ensuring lifelong fitness. People can and do dance well into their eighties. But what percentage of people continues to play vigorous football, volleyball or even badminton into their eighties? Some people do, but not as many as would dance, I bet. (Okay, so my view is extremely biased. What can I say? LOL.)

Hey Jenn! :)

What I meant to say--shorn of irony--is why should dance be thought of an an *alternative* to Physical Education, when in fact dancing requires all of the work that goes into other Phys Ed activities? When I was in school, we took a single Phys Ed class in which we were required to do a number of things, from exercises to various team sports. Now it seems that students are given a choice of physical activities, more like in college.

The university where I work offers hip hop classes, which fits well with its historically black character. And they offer jazz and ballet, I think. But it would be nice to see a ballroom course as well.

[pygmalion]

Alas! Bombarded with irony at 7:00 or 8:00 AM. What a world ... what a world (I'm in wicked witch mode this morning LOL)


Colleges have been open to dance as an alternative to other organized sports for a long time, and now it appears some high schools are getting in on the act. Finally.

[Christina75]

The college I attended really emphasized a "classical" education. Looking back, I can't believe they didn't include dance as part of the core curriculum. (it was a really really small school so maybe it just wasn't practical) Although I'm a sports fan now, in high school I avoided gym class and athletics like the plague, and honestly even if they had offered dance in PE, I bet I wouldn't have taken the opportunity :( I would have had flash backs to the misery of them forcing us to pair up for square dancing and a mexican hat-dance type thing in junior high. I remember they made the boys ask the girls to dance and when I was 12 or 13, that was one of the most humiliating things I was ever put through. :oops:

whew, thanks DF, you're like therapy. LOL Next time I'll tell you all about my mother... :)

Christina

[Sagitta]

I think that ballroom, swing or salsa should be offered as an option to kids instead of PE. It will give them social skills, for sure. But it's also physical exercise, perhaps on a life long basis.

Instead of PE? :shock:

Surely you jest, Jenn--as you say, dance is exercise, and can sometimes be pretty vigorous exercise at that!

Well, it's late--good night to you!

G

Good morning to you! :wink:

No, I'm not kidding. I've seen a few articles on the web about schools that already offer dance as an alternative to traditional PE classes. I'll google and see if I can find the articles again. It can be done. And, in my somewhat biased view, that would be a much better way of ensuring lifelong fitness. People can and do dance well into their eighties. But what percentage of people continues to play vigorous football, volleyball or even badminton into their eighties? Some people do, but not as many as would dance, I bet. (Okay, so my view is extremely biased. What can I say? LOL.)

Cornell University does offer ballroom/swing classes that can be taken for the physical education credit required of all students. :)

[Sagitta]

whew, thanks DF, you're like therapy. LOL Next time I'll tell you all about my mother... :)

Christina

Your mother!! Pray, do tell!

[Genesius Redux]

Cornell University does offer ballroom/swing classes that can be taken for the physical education credit required of all students. :)

Well, hopefully that will keep a few students from taking the plunge, as it were, during finals week.... :wink:

[tsb]

Cornell University does offer ballroom/swing classes that can be taken for the physical education credit required of all students. :)

as does cal tech. of course, stanford has classes (some of richard powers' essays have been listed as topic subjects) but i'm not sure they fulfill the PE requirement.

[Shamby]

I think it should be taught in schools. Dancing has made me more confident. It has brought me lots of new and wonderful friends and now I have no qualms about walking up to a complete stranger and saying, "excuse me but would you like this dance?". Dancing did all that and every one of the skills and associated skills I've picked up in dancing has stood me well in the non dancing world.

[Sagitta]

I've been the only person on the dance floor with my partner, for various reasons, and it does not phase me in the least. Even though I had pretty good social skills I don't think I would have been comfortable being exposed in this way before I started dancing. No matter how good your social and other skills dancing definitely helps you get better!! :D

[tsb]

While I was out googling yesterday for dance camps for myself, I ran across several summer camps for children that teach ballroom social dance. One was a YMCA, just teaching kids for fun. Another was an etiquette camp, whose stated purpose was to teach kids the essential social skills -- table manners, proper social behaviors and ballroom dance.

What do you think of that? Is ballroom dance an essential social skill, for kids or for adults? Why or why not?

essential? seeing that ballroom dance is not a prerequisite for citizenship or the right to continue breathing, no.

having said that, i do believe that the basic principles embraced by social ballroom dance and the opportunities for social interaction can provide an ideal forum to allow people to learn & develop & grow in more facets, in terms of influencing development as individuals as well as a group, than almost any other situation. (enough so that i'm hoping to make this my future PhD thesis!)

however, i think that there is a perception (at least in the western cultures) that the pursuit of social dance implies some sort of class distinction (let's face it, learning to dance can get awfully expensive) which can influence one's desire to pursue dance both positively and negatively. furthermore, i suspect that sensitivity to class distinction can unconsciously (or consciously) influence how one pursues dance.

i would certainly endorse something like a YMCA camp (assuming that nothing hinky is going on there) but the idea of an etiquette camp makes me itch. i can only assume these camps are for kids who spend 9 months of every year in boarding school in europe and never see the parents who should be modeling this basic behavior at home...

[pygmalion]

Yup. I had a problem with the etiquette camp, too. The egalitarian in me didn't like it. But let's face it. In the US, there are the empowered class, and the not-empowered class. The empowered class knows etiquette (and probably dancing too)


Did I ever tell you about the kid I met a few years ago? An upper class kid, being sponsored by his VERY wealthy father to attend an exclusive prep school? At fifteen, that kid already knew more politicians and powers-that-be than I did, at twice his age. He was being trained to take over a leadership role at the very top of American society. And, btw, ballroom dance was a significant part of his training. Hmm.

[dancin_feet]

Would have loved to take dancing at school. We had our regular PE classes where we would do something different every week. Would have much rather done dancing than boxing lessons! :shock: :x

[SDsalsaguy]

Would have much rather done dancing than boxing lessons! :shock: :x
And people wonder why there are problems with violence in our society? :?

[tsb]

Did I ever tell you about the kid I met a few years ago? An upper class kid, being sponsored by his VERY wealthy father to attend an exclusive prep school? At fifteen, that kid already knew more politicians and powers-that-be than I did, at twice his age. He was being trained to take over a leadership role at the very top of American society. And, btw, ballroom dance was a significant part of his training. Hmm.

natch. i had a college roommate freshman year who went to phillips exeter academy. oddly enough he & this midwestern born&bred chinese of immigrant parents never ever saw eye to eye...

[Genesius Redux]

Yup. I had a problem with the etiquette camp, too. The egalitarian in me didn't like it. But let's face it. In the US, there are the empowered class, and the not-empowered class. The empowered class knows etiquette (and probably dancing too)


Did I ever tell you about the kid I met a few years ago? An upper class kid, being sponsored by his VERY wealthy father to attend an exclusive prep school? At fifteen, that kid already knew more politicians and powers-that-be than I did, at twice his age. He was being trained to take over a leadership role at the very top of American society. And, btw, ballroom dance was a significant part of his training. Hmm.

Bingo. I've seen so-called "cotillion" classes, which are general etiquette classes, rather than classes in the old ballroom dance. When I was working as an actor on board a cruise ship, this was a new idea that was being explored by the cruise line as an option for parents with children on board. Part of the program was to involve teaching the children some basic ECS.

The problem was that the teachers of this class couldn't be bothered to learn swing--I offered to teach the teachers a few steps, and the ballroom couple aboard the ship actually offered a whole set of private introductory swing lessons--but our intrepid 20-something teachers couldn't be bothered to take the time. Otherwise, it may have been a good idea.

What was the problem with this? The teachers were drawn from the ranks of the "average" American citizens--no privilege there, no graduates from Andover or Northfield Mount Herman, just some young men and women in their first jobs. And the dance section of the cotillion program never really caught on because *they* couldn't be bothered to learn it. Who were the snobs here, I ask you?

Although I appreciate why some people bristle at the idea, I don't think it would be a terrible thing to cultivate etiquette in all walks of society. The skills involved in dancing, and the social skills that the whole dance atmosphere cultivates wouldn't be a really terrible thing to teach kids, who are increasingly self-absorbed, and tuned to their cell phones and private lives.

It's all well and good to be champions of working class freedom--but freedom for what? As if ideas and opinions aren't already being shaped by the forces of a commercial culture whose economic interest lies in making people as isolated and self-involved as they possibly can?

I would suggest that anyone who thinks etiquette classes are simply there for snob appeal and have nothing to do with average people might do well to spend five or ten minutes in front of a classroom of students at any state university. You may come away thinking that etiquette, and the kind of social skills that ballroom dance cultivates in its practitioners might not be such a terrible thing.

Our aptly-named moderator Pygmalion can certainly attest from the play from which her name is taken that social status and position is inextricably bound to language, dialect, and social skills. Certainly my own students--predominantly black and at an historically black university--are well aware that social knowledge conveys power, and that dress, appearance, speech and behavior can have a profound impact on how they are perceived, and how they are treated.

That's why the egalitarian in *me* says share the knowledge across socio-economic and cultural boundaries. We require most high school students to be at least passingly familiar with Shakespeare's major plays, and the causes of the Bolshevik Revolution. Why not dance and etiquette as well?

[tsb]

Yup. I had a problem with the etiquette camp, too. The egalitarian in me didn't like it. But let's face it. In the US, there are the empowered class, and the not-empowered class. The empowered class knows etiquette (and probably dancing too)


there is always going to be class distinction & the prejudice that goes with that. the interesting thing i read somewhere was that the folks who felt the class distinction were more inclined to focus on dancing "correctly" than for the fun of it; it was like mastering this skill would somehow improve either their view of themselves or the view that they thought others had of them (match up the pronouns in the last sentence correctly and win a valuable prize! ANYWAAAAAY...)


Did I ever tell you about the kid I met a few years ago? An upper class kid, being sponsored by his VERY wealthy father to attend an exclusive prep school? At fifteen, that kid already knew more politicians and powers-that-be than I did, at twice his age. He was being trained to take over a leadership role at the very top of American society. And, btw, ballroom dance was a significant part of his training. Hmm.

if the classes were held at the (presumably all-male) prep school i would infer that at least half the boys who came out of that school would be good followers!

[pygmalion]

Good point. I wasn't dancing at the time, so I didn't think of it that way. They imported girsl from a similarly elite girl's school for dances. That much I know.

[mhgroove]

I would actually prefer if salsa and merengue were taught as a social dance instead of ballroom dance. I know that might be too unrefined for those who are in the upper class, but I believe there would be some valuable communication(non-verbally) skills that could be learned from those two dances.

[DancePoet]

Essential? Probably not. Helpful? Very likely.