Is it about the music?

[pygmalion]

Hmm. This is interesting. A Rolling Stone review of a Big Bad Voodoo Daddy CD which states that the 90's neo-swing movement failed because young dancers don't like vintage swing and blues music. What do you think of that?

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=2046928&cf=3689

[etchuck]

Well, I don't know if the neo-swing movement failed per se because of the music. I think there are still a few younguns coming in to take swing lessons all the time... just maybe not in droves. Part of that is because there are trends in music and all trends are temporary.

As for why younguns don't like to listen to "old person" music, that happens. There is not a great appreciation of history (much less music history). It's back to a cultural illiteracy that Americans don't seem to appreciate or something.

[DancePoet]

If I'm understanding correctly, then like many other things, it's about education and upbringing.

Trends are trends.

[pygmalion]

I love these guys who make absolutist statements. :roll: My first question, after reading the review, was, did the neo swing movement of the nineties fail? Sorry to be difficult. :wink: :twisted:

[SDsalsaguy]

...a cultural illiteracy that Americans don't seem to appreciate or something.
Sadly true... :cry:

In a very tangentially related vein, it was actually rather funny (in that depressing sort of way) hearing how dismayed a Venezuelan wedding guest (at the wedding I was at in Mexico City a couple of weekends back) got with one of the Canadians geographical knowledge (or lack thereof as the case was) of South America...

[DancePoet]

Pygmalion,

What did they mean by "failure"? Seems like a broad critique unless the context is understood.

For example, are there more people now involved with dance even though some are no longer involved? If yes, seems successful if the measurement is in terms of growth in number of current dancers. How did they measure it being a failure? It failed because young dancers don't like vintage swing and blues? Hmmm ... I don't get it.

[Christina75]

I was one of those crazy punk kids in the 90's hanging on every word of BBVD. When I first started swing dancing, the only thing the DJ's had to play was the vintage stuff. Eventually Big Bad, RCR, CPD, etc. became the staples heard at swing nights across town. Some of the old stuff was still played but usually it was remixes. Our group of "swing kids" had an AWESOME DJ who made a point of mixing in the old stuff. He had us loving Dean Martin and Peggy Lee. A crowd favorite was when he would play a 20 minute mix of Sing Sing Sing and we would do a jam circle. As music goes, the one thing that often caused me to leave a swing club early was when the club owners would advertise a live band and when we showed up, instead of swing it was a ska band. Don't get me wrong, I like some ska music, but for me those are two different types of shows.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but what helped the downfall of swing in my area was it's popularity. Sort of a catch-22 maybe? The kids I regularly danced with were the rebel-rockabilly types. The kind that would never be caught doing something trendy! As has been discussed many times on DF, we'd all love to see dance become more popular among the masses because that's what it needs to survive. I agree. Unfortunately, when the preppy crowd started showing up at swing nights it really rubbed some of my fellow swing kids the wrong way. Suddenly what they were doing wasn't so underground and rebelious anymore. Everyone in town wanted to be like the GAP commercial and that just wasn't cool.

Speaking of that commercial, when I first saw it I was excited, then I began to hear the first grumblings. When Brian Setzer hit the top 40 with Jump Jive & Wail, I had a bad feeling that a decline was near. Sure enough, within weeks most of the old crowd had abandoned ship. I'm not sure if the newer dancers didn't have the same spirit or what but the swing scene, as I had known it, was over. I'm ashamed to admit that even I lost interest. :oops:

All good things come to an end I guess but I disagree with Rolling Stone, it wasn't the old music we didn't like, it was the new music that too many people liked. lol? :?

Christina

[LindyKeya]

I must say I disaree with the review. I think the neo-swing movement "failed" because of the inability of bands to adapt their ska/punkish neo-swing into quality swing. From bands like BBVD, the only logical place to move is back to ska. Other bands, like Indigo Swing, George Gee, etc have a more classic "swing" sound, and encourage the dancer/listener to move to the older greats- like Duke Ellington, Dean Martin, etc.

Everyone has different tastes in music. Some people that were attracted by the popular of neo-swing and BBVD were able to translate that into a love for older music. Some couldn't.

I also disagree that the popularity of swing caused its downfall. On the contrary, most of the more advanced dancers right now started dancing right around the time of the Gap ad. The popularity breathed new life into swing dancing- by the addition of lots of new people. Some of those people stayed, many of them left. I would say in Utah, the swing scene is much smaller than it was a couple of years ago. The burgeoning that came from the popularity of neo-swing didn't finish until sometime around 2001 or so... Even still, there is lots of latent interest that just needs to be tapped into. It may not be the most popular thing right now, but I wouldn't call swing a "has-been."

Also... a few months ago my husband/partner and I dj-ed and taught lessons at a birthday party for a kid turning 16. From their clothes, it was quite obvious these kids were into the whole ska/punk/skater thing. And guess what? They loved real old swing! They wanted to hear anything off of Swing Kids, and anything similar! (Granted, most of us are a little sick of things like "Swing, Swing, Swing," but it was new to them.) They saw the similarities between their beloved ska and punk music and swing, and realized that a real dance to it would be great.

[Spitfire]

Hmm. This is interesting. A Rolling Stone review of a Big Bad Voodoo Daddy CD which states that the 90's neo-swing movement failed because young dancers don't like vintage swing and blues music. What do you think of that?

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/cd/review.asp?aid=2046928&cf=3689

Perhaps this is true, but I'll just say this; I was talking about the swing dance scene one time with a college age bartender. While most of the lindy dancers here have been college age, he pointed out that this is a minority since most young people tend to want to dance in the rock and roll and hip hop clubs. That is certainly true in this town.

However, those who do take an interest in swing dancing are mainly in the high school to college age group.

[jdavidb]

Eddie Reed's bands did it. They're still doing it.

To measure failure on a popularity scale, the world of heavy metal disproves it. Real heavy metal is far from failure. Metal is still as alive and successful as ever, yet metal is not winning any popularity contests. To judge its success or failure by its popularity is to disregard the whole idea that it is art.

[Genesius Redux]

I don't quite see how a "movement" can "fail." It can lose steam, or it can be short-lived. But failure? Does a movement have goals?

The only way you can talk about failure is by reference to actual agency, which broad talk about "movements" precludes. The writer just wanted to set up his point that contemporary vocalists are not as good as the more traditional ones. Most of the traditional vocalists he mentions are singers you're more likely to foxtrot to.

One of the things I've noticed, however, is that among younger dancers, the appeal of swing is sort of retro, while the appeal of Latin seems vital and in the moment. He'd have done a better job analyzing the appeal of swing dancing if he'd bothered to look at the fortunes of rock n roll over the last 15 years or so.

[Christina75]

I was just speaking for my little corner of the world. :) I always wondered what the swing communities were like in other parts of the country and the world. I think swing came to my area a lot later than most other places and we evolved and molded it in our own weird ways. That's one of the things I love most about reading DF, seeing the different attitudes and spirit applied to dance - usually different from what I have experienced in the past. :D

Christina

[pygmalion]

I know I've seen a huge peak in popularity of swing dancing, followed by a lessening in its popularity. I just wouldn't call that a failure of the movment, just a natural outcome of the novelty wearing off. Every social movement I can think of has gone through the same thing.

The way I see it, many more people are swing dancing today than were in, say, 1985. And many of them will stick with it for the long haul. To me, that's success.