Keeping your balance

[ShyDancer]

How do you keep your balance when your lead is really forceful?

Maybe I should explain it a little better! There is one partner I dance with every week and while he is a terrific guy and a lot of fun, his leads are VERY forcefull, for example when leading me out into a fan (cha or rumba) he will push me out from closed position with his right hand on my shoulder and push me even further away with his left arm, all this is very quick and Im finding Im off balance when it comes time to close.

Do I need to work on my balance a bit more? Is there a way to keep balanced with leads like that?

I have tried telling him that his lead is strong and thats why Im losing it, but he said no one else has a problem with it so maybe it just me. I was a touch annoyed at tha because I dont have the same problem with anyone else which makes me believe that it probably is him :evil:

However good dancer should be able to dance with any lead right...??

[SDsalsaguy]

However good dancer should be able to dance with any lead right...??
No, no NO!!!!!!! :x

This is him! These moves require indications for your motion, not for him to shove you off of your balance.

Especially if you can follow these patterns with everyone else, this is clearly him overleading.

[dancin_feet]

There is only so much a follow can do to make the lead look good. If his leads are too soft or too strong, yes it will change the way you dance with him.

This is something that he needs to work out with his instructor (if he has a private instructor). Leads can be strong, but gentle.

On the question of balance, yes it can be an opportunity for you to work on your balance in an extreme situation, but don't think that dancing with him is ever going to feel "right" until his problem is corrected.

[Sagitta]

Well, it looks as if you have one less dance partner for a while dancin_feet!!

[MacMoto]

I have tried telling him that his lead is strong and thats why Im losing it, but he said no one else has a problem with it so maybe it just me.

Perhaps you should ask other followers and see what they think of this guy's lead. If they agree that his lead is forceful to the point of making it difficult to keep balance, then it's his problem.

If they say yes his lead is strong but no they don't lose balance because of it? Then maybe it's a good idea to work on your balance... I'm sure good balance is an important element in following technique... But then, a good leader should be able to see your problem and adjust his lead to accommodate it. His job is to show you off, not show you up! :evil:

[bordertangoman]

How do you keep your balance when your lead is really forceful?
However good dancer should be able to dance with any lead right...??

ah so glasshopper, you sho' use your oppenents stlength against him. Offer no lesistance and he fall as surery as leaves in autumn.

As the Great Master Ching Bong say......
when the butterfly alights on the dragon's nose, then he will appear mighty to the foolish one.

[SDsalsaguy]

ah so glasshopper, you sho' use your oppenents stlength against him. Offer no lesistance and he fall as surery as leaves in autumn.

As the Great Master Ching Bong say......
when the butterfly alights on the dragon's nose, then he will appear mighty to the foolish one.
Fantastic BTM! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Vince A]

These are all so true . . . the leader who over-leads so dramatically will eventually fall smack on his face . . . thus he will truly "have a crack up."

[Genesius Redux]

Like everyone else--it ain't you, ShyDancer. The lead for a fan comes from the whole frame not from the arms. He's probably losing himself in the drama of the step and forgetting about technique. He needs to work on frame and controlling steps from the ground.

As for BTMan's response:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TemptressToo]

I recommend kicking him in shin. ;)

[Genesius Redux]

I recommend kicking him in shin. ;)

:lol: Only if she's wearing closed-toe shoes! :lol:

[dancin_feet]

Well, it looks as if you have one less dance partner for a while dancin_feet!!

Huh?? Sorry, thought I was being helpful. Maybe not ......

[ShyDancer]

ah so glasshopper, you sho' use your oppenents stlength against him. Offer no lesistance and he fall as surery as leaves in autumn.

As the Great Master Ching Bong say......
when the butterfly alights on the dragon's nose, then he will appear mighty to the foolish one.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am going to just let all tension go then! If he falls it ill serve him right! Why did I not think of this myself????


I recommend kicking him in shin.


Only if she's wearing closed-toe shoes!



Or I could use my heel....... :shock: :shock: :shock:

[jdavidb]

I think a leader has to learn to use strength. On the occassion that heavier than average strength is needed, it shouldn't be sudden. Either make the application of strength gradual, or use abrupt strength only when she's already moving in the direction.

In pas de deux, the lady often plies & boosts so we can apply sudden strength to her torso. She's already going in that upward direction. We just finish pushing her up. If we're lifting her from a pose (no plie/boost), we don't just "clean & jerk". We mercifully apply lifting power. I know you're not talking about lifts, but lifts are the best examples of the most force ever needed in partner dance.

I think part of his problem is that he does not trust follows to go with what he's doing. He underestimates other people's ability to dance. He should take lessons and learn to follow. That's probably the most effective way he'll see that other people can do it without being muscled through it.

[Genesius Redux]

I recommend kicking him in shin.


Only if she's wearing closed-toe shoes!



Or I could use my heel....... :shock: :shock: :shock:

A sidekick to the shin in heels! :shock:

Deadly girl! I think I really like you, Shy Dancer! :wink: :lol:

[ShyDancer]

A sidekick to the shin in heels! :shock:

Deadly girl! I think I really like you, Shy Dancer! :wink: :lol:

:oops: :oops: :oops:

[salsachinita]

How do you keep your balance when your lead is really forceful?

..........There is one partner I dance with every week and while he is a terrific guy and a lot of fun, his leads are VERY forcefull..........Do I need to work on my balance a bit more? Is there a way to keep balanced with leads like that?

I have tried telling him that his lead is strong and thats why Im losing it, but he said no one else has a problem with it so maybe it just me.

However good dancer should be able to dance with any lead right...??

By the sounds of things, the guy you are talking about here sounds a whole lot like "Side-show Bob" (my fellow club-goers know exactly who I am talking about :lol: ).....! Seriously though, there must be more than one guy locally who does that :wink: .....

I danced with "Side-show Bob" last night. His lead was so strong, not only did it rock my balance, he also broke my fingernail (ouch :x !)!

*Then while we were arguing, some dude came up & completmented on how good we looked :shock: :shock: :shock: .....!*

The point I am trying to make for myself is, eventhough most of my local salsera agreed that he is one rough cookie to dance with, most of them managed beautifully.......(while I do well sometimes but sucked on other occasions :oops: )

So I think better body momentum control & improved balance (both I am currently working on....) will be the key to cope with such leads. We can ultimately change the guy (ie. make him learn to follow, as CapricornDancer tried), with a bit of luck.....but for now, we will still dance with him if there are no other options :roll: , seeing that good leads are SO hard to come by....... :x

*while we are on this topic, I want to add that some of my favourite leads (ie. my partner "El Washing Machine") are pretty strong, yet their force is steady & grounded, thus gives security to the follower....*

[TemptressToo]

Still...attempt to kick him in the shin. He'll wise up because he could be too forceful and hurt you.

I danced with a guy at swing two weeks ago that was so rough...jerking me around on the floor. He attempted to yank my arm up and over my head (apparently to turn me...although I would have willingly gone had I not been attempting to keep my limbs intact)...in the process he jerked his hand right out of my now death grip and hit me in the face. It did not feel good and I was very unhappy.

I felt like I was dancing with Charlie Chaplin on ecstacy.

[Vince A]

There are so many things that you could do . . .

Become so strong framed/arms that he cannot move you, but this could be dangerous for you, as you should have relaxed arms so you cannot get hurt especially your shoulders!

When I have followers that are extremely strong armed, I lighten my lead to a point where it is almost none existant . . . although you'd think they would even getter stronger armed, they do tend to lighten up. But never, break frame, unless you are forced out of it!!!

The worst thing I've ever done, and this was in the middle of a Jack and Jill competition, was to lighten up, then as she continued, I did nothing but stand in place and led her into the same continuous move, a sugar push about 25 times.

Was she pissed? Yes . . .

Did we win? No . . .

Did she ever dance with me again? No . . .

:D

[Genesius Redux]

I danced with "Side-show Bob" last night. His lead was so strong, not only did it rock my balance, he also broke my fingernail (ouch :x !)!



Ack! The unpardonable sin! It's so hard being a girl.... :wink: :lol:

But here's another suggestion--you go off balance, as long as you have those nice long nails, grab him by the shoulders to steady yourself, and dig in, sister! For dear life!

Then straighten up, smile sweetly, and say, "Oh, uh, sorry--I seem to have lost my balance. Are you okay?"

Repeat as often as necessary, and hard enough to break skin.

[Genesius Redux]

I danced with a guy at swing two weeks ago that was so rough...jerking me around on the floor. He attempted to yank my arm up and over my head (apparently to turn me...although I would have willingly gone had I not been attempting to keep my limbs intact)...in the process he jerked his hand right out of my now death grip and hit me in the face. It did not feel good and I was very unhappy.

I felt like I was dancing with Charlie Chaplin on ecstacy.

Charlie Chaplin on ecstacy! Cute! :lol:

Another cure-all. The nice thing about being turned is that you eventually get to face your partner again. If you take the third step of the turn (tri-ple-STEP) to come forward pretty decisively, you should be able to land on the offending partner's foot--and if your swing is really into the ground, it should send a clear message.

As always, you smile sweetly, and say, "Oh, are you okay? I think you pulled me a little off my balance. Sorry!" If you can do this without missing a beat, so much the better. :wink:

The other possibility--raise your right arm, with the elbow facing out, for balance. And just see what happens when you whip around....

[jdavidb]

I dunno... that might be a guy who never understands anything except blatant, spell-it-out communication. Afterall, he's being overly blatant with leading dances. Trying to be subtle, vengeful or do anything in hopes he'll get the message through body language might just make him think you've just got no skill.

I had more thoughts about it while driving to a job today... It's tension and compression. He hasn't learned it. All he knows is 100% tension always works. That's great for sports, but a dance partner is not an opponent.

He should hang back & watch others closely. Other couples aren't doing it with the pressure he's applying.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

The worst thing I've ever done, and this was in the middle of a Jack and Jill competition, was to lighten up, then as she continued, I did nothing but stand in place and led her into the same continuous move, a sugar push about 25 times.

Was she pissed? Yes . . .

Did we win? No . . .

Did she ever dance with me again? No . . .

:D

Vince, I´m glad you´re making a lot of friends in the dance community. :wink:

[etchuck]

The other possibility--raise your right arm, with the elbow facing out, for balance. And just see what happens when you whip around....

I'd sorta agree that nothing's more shocking that a clocking elbow during a turn.

The other alternative is to completely lose all your frame tension entirely and slip into just shining for the rest of the time. You could also be real "fun" and (as the original follower) try to "lead" your leader. You'd say you're working on your leading skills. Then see if you can impart the same pain... well...

[ShyDancer]

I danced with "Side-show Bob" last night. His lead was so strong, not only did it rock my balance, he also broke my fingernail (ouch :x !)!



:evil: :evil: :evil: Broke your nail! I would have killed him :evil: :evil: :evil: I love my nails..really, they are always polished and looking their best, even though now I keep them short because I kept stabbing my dance teachers with them... :shock: :shock:


But here's another suggestion--you go off balance, as long as you have those nice long nails, grab him by the shoulders to steady yourself, and dig in, sister! For dear life!

Then straighten up, smile sweetly, and say, "Oh, uh, sorry--I seem to have lost my balance. Are you okay?"

Repeat as often as necessary, and hard enough to break skin.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I like that one! Less blatant than a swift heel to the shin!




Another cure-all. The nice thing about being turned is that you eventually get to face your partner again. If you take the third step of the turn (tri-ple-STEP) to come forward pretty decisively, you should be able to land on the offending partner's foot--and if your swing is really into the ground, it should send a clear message.

As always, you smile sweetly, and say, "Oh, are you okay? I think you pulled me a little off my balance. Sorry!" If you can do this without missing a beat, so much the better.

The other possibility--raise your right arm, with the elbow facing out, for balance. And just see what happens when you whip around....


I can do that triple step thing... I seem to do it often to patrners who really dont deserve it though...Hehehe

As for that wayward elbow...well I did it accidently once, and it just so happened to be him I was dancing with! During a cross body lead he tried to spin me rather than let me take my own small turn out and he copped a ripper right in the chest...thinking back actually you think he might have got the hint then as I hit him pretty hard!

[Genesius Redux]

During a cross body lead he tried to spin me rather than let me take my own small turn out and he copped a ripper right in the chest...

Copped a ripper???????

How come we don't have great expressions like that in the states? Love that Aussiespeak! :wink: [/b]

[ShyDancer]

Copped a ripper???????

How come we don't have great expressions like that in the states? Love that Aussiespeak!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry I forget that not everyone speaks Aussie slang!

Copped a ripper pretty much means he got a really good hit :D :lol: :lol:

[dancin_feet]

Copped a ripper???????

How come we don't have great expressions like that in the states? Love that Aussiespeak!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry I forget that not everyone speaks Aussie slang!

Copped a ripper pretty much means he got a really good hit :D :lol: :lol:

Yes, I've had to be very careful here not to use too many Aussie slang terms, so that people know what I'm taking about!

[Genesius Redux]

Copped a ripper???????

How come we don't have great expressions like that in the states? Love that Aussiespeak!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry I forget that not everyone speaks Aussie slang!

Copped a ripper pretty much means he got a really good hit :D :lol: :lol:

Yes, I've had to be very careful here not to use too many Aussie slang terms, so that people know what I'm taking about!

Hey, at least you're slang is printable. I'm originally from NY!

[TemptressToo]

In the U.S. the slang, "she copped an attitude." Is common enough.

But a ripper? My father would have guess you farted. ;)