Over 200 bpm swing, your favorite stuff to do?

[jdavidb]

What's your favorite stuff to do swing dancing at 200 bpm and up? What are some main things you'd rather avoid at 200+ bpm? Not what we can do... what do you like/dislike doing?

My (currently small/limited) 200+ bpm repertoire is ecs, Charelston bits & pieces, some Bal-swing, and things that resemble lindy hop. I do all sorts of stuff in ecs, but everything else is basics and close variations. That's why I didn't mention actual names of moves, but you mention your favorite moves at fast tempos if you want. Who likes to lindy hop swingout at these tempos? How 'bout apache turns? Do you tend to avoid the risk of knotting up in arm pretzels at these tempos? How about aerials?

[alfborge]

If I dance with a good follower, I can do swingouts to about 220. Depending on how warm I am and how good me and the follower fit together the swingout might look ok, but usually it looks like I'm desparately trying to keep up with the music and failing miserably. If I do swingouts, I also do circles and side passes.

At 200+ tempo I use a lot of charlston and I also try to do some balboa (I only know the basic steps of balboa, but this is very nice for relaxing and getting my breath back).

[delamusica]

Jive! The technique's all about going fast . . . :)

[d nice]

I love swinging out at this tempo and faster. Barrel rolls, apaches/texas tommy's, charleston (side by side and tandem) tuck-turns etc.

I love everything in Lindy Hop at over 200.

[jdavidb]

I love everything in Lindy Hop at over 200.

I will too some day.

Here's a video with 4 consecutive swingouts at 200 bpm: http://www.jitterbugs.info/sf_bugs_videos.htm It's the one that is "Lindy Hop performance - USS Hornet, 03 (.mpeg - 6.16mb - 36 sec.)" Do you do it with the touch steps like they do, or do you clearly triple step?

[pygmalion]

My computer is acting retarded, so I don't see the clip at full speed. So here's a dumb question. Do you have time to do a full triple step at 200+ bpm?

[jdavidb]

My computer is acting retarded, so I don't see the clip at full speed. So here's a dumb question. Do you have time to do a full triple step at 200+ bpm?

Did you do the right click and save as? Playing it off your computer is better than playing videos while they're transferring/streaming.

I don't know the tempo range at which the experts in Lindy Hop commonly abandon the triple step, but I know it is reasonable to expect to be able to do it at 200 bpm. I can do it standing in place easily at 200 bpm, (step step triplestep step step triplestep). I'm not fluent at doing lindy hop triple steps with a partner at 200 bpm though.

[suek]

I love everything at 200+bpm, I love fast lindy, but I ADORE balboa. Not only fast tempo bal either; I love slow bal. Medium bal, fast bal. Bring it.

It is the best complement to a LH repertoire, IM(not-so)HO.

Blessings from Florida,
Visiting mom and dad and supporting mom's inoperable lung cancer process,
Sue

[voilsb]

My computer is acting retarded, so I don't see the clip at full speed. So here's a dumb question. Do you have time to do a full triple step at 200+ bpm?Yes. I've also got time to triple step at 300bpm. I can't say I've tried much beyond that, though. At least, not that I've really paid much attention to. It also depends on the day and how the particular song goes. Sometimes I have better days or dances than others, and either have to fudge at higher tempos or don't have to.

200bpm is still quite well within the "medium tempo" range for Lindy Hop, in my opinion. I would say "fast" starts around 225-235bpm and isn't firmly established until about 240+ bpm. But these are just my opinions. Others' might vary.

[jdavidb]

...I've also got time to triple step at 300bpm.

So you could Lindy Hop to something like War Ensemble by Slayer? That song has awesome breaks.

[voilsb]

So you could Lindy Hop to something like War Ensemble by Slayer? That song has awesome breaks.Dunno. Never heard of it. But I can lindy hop to Harlem Congo, which is right about 300 and quite fun.

[jdavidb]

Dunno. Never heard of it. But I can lindy hop to Harlem Congo, which is right about 300 and quite fun.

I was jokin' about Slayer, but I got a Sy Oliver cd today. I usually don't even like those 250+ bpm swing songs at all, but I like Zonky (270 bpm) and Undecided (280 bpm). I stepped it out with triple steps just fine... standing in the basketball player stance, alone and not moving around any.

It's hard to imagine being able to keep it all changing around as a leader at that speed. Is it even common for followers to be able to keep up with it? I'm talking socially, not choreographed routines where we get to practice everything a lot.

To lindy hop socially at these tempos, do you just use a lot of repetition of a small set of moves, or go ahead & dance it all over the place like 165 bpm songs?

How about dancing half notes as quarter notes? You know... every two beats is one beat. Any thoughts/opinions on that?

That might appear to be too many questions in one message, but they're actually yes/no questions. Elaborating beyond yes & no is greatly appreciated though.

[voilsb]

It's hard to imagine being able to keep it all changing around as a leader at that speed. Is it even common for followers to be able to keep up with it? I'm talking socially, not choreographed routines where we get to practice everything a lot.It depends on how good the follower is, how good the leader is, and how well they dance together. But it's quite true that, in general, there are fewer capable dancers at 270-300 than there are at 170-200.

To lindy hop socially at these tempos, do you just use a lot of repetition of a small set of moves, or go ahead & dance it all over the place like 165 bpm songs?Well, the way I personally dance, I don't think about moves; I just go with what I feel and hear in the music, regardless of tempo. Sometimes it's repetitive, others it's not. It depends more on how the music feels and the crowd than it does on the tempo. It also depends on my partner. I tend to start start simple and progressively remove restraint. In general, though, the faster I dance the smaller I dance, so that there's less distance to cover.

As a follow, the key (in my opinion) to dancing at such tempos is to simply react and play with whatever you get, and not to think about what's happening.

How about dancing half notes as quarter notes? You know... every two beats is one beat. Any thoughts/opinions on that?It works. Some people do this. It was done back in the day, too. Personally, I find it removes the "swing" feel to the music, though.

That might appear to be too many questions in one message, but they're actually yes/no questions. Elaborating beyond yes & no is greatly appreciated though.No problem about the number of questions. Just remember that I'm not anything close to an end-all authority; these are just my opinions/observations. Other people probably do it differently, and they're probably no more or less correct.

[Swing Kitten]

As a follow, the key (in my opinion) to dancing at such tempos is to simply react and play with whatever you get, and not to think about what's happening.

I think that's the key to following -- period-- doesn't depend of tempo ;)

[jdavidb]

I'm starting to see how it can be done, as in... me doing it. The more I listen to these two songs along with imagining what you're saying, the more I get the idea.

It seems like followers should just not triple step outside of her personal tempo range of comfortable triple stepping. Keep pushing it to faster tempos in practice, but don't worry about pushing triple steps during social dancefloor time. Is that the kind of thing you'd recommend to followers in a class?

[funkyfreak]

Pushing yourself during 'social' dancing time is one of the best way to have fun and learn too, it doesn't matter if it causes a "mistake" or trip-up, Lindy Hop isn't a perfectionist dance. As a lead and follow go out, dance to the music and partner, and don't think too hard ;)

-FF

[tsb]

at that tempo, i run to the bar and get a drink and/or go change shirts. and according to some dj's and club owners i know, that's one of the reasons dj's play a song a lot of people won't dance to - to get them to go buy beverages and keep the club owners happy.

[jdavidb]

Ok then it's optional to push it socially dancing. They don't have to, but it might be fun. Do it only if it is fun. They should always push it in practice.

That's what I'm hoping: that they won't be thinking too hard. I want them to know they can trip up, miss things, single step for 40 counts before they get back on it, etc.

[bgirlswinger]

good luck,. and rememeber have fun

[swinginstyle]

Personally, I'm all in favor of bal at such tempos. However, I have a strong base in ECS, so I will utilize those skills at such tempos. What dance I choose to do also depends on the follow, their dance level and their connection.

[bgirlswinger]

i liek to shag at really fast temps,.. perfer bal at kind of middle to slow the rest fits in wherever.
amber d.

[Vince A]

at that tempo, i run to the bar and get a drink and/or go change shirts.
. . . and I'm going with you tsb . . .

[voilsb]

As a follow, the key (in my opinion) to dancing at such tempos is to simply react and play with whatever you get, and not to think about what's happening.

I think that's the key to following -- period-- doesn't depend of tempo ;)Well, yeah, but at slower tempos it's easier to play more, to hijack, to add to the lead, etc, whereas when you're dancing at tempos at the top of your comfort zone, it's probably better to leave that stuff out.

Plus there's a whole lotta people who seem to care about "steps" and "moves" instead of "just dancing."

[Diavo]

at that tempo, i run to the bar and get a drink and/or go change shirts.

For me it's songs <200bpm that make me sit 'em out. Gotta have it fast!
George Gee played at Glen Echo this weekend and I didn't dance the entire first set -- it wasn't fast enough for me! :wink:

Just for reference, could someone post some common swing songs alongside their beats-per-minute? Thanks.

[etchuck]

I don't know but I like slower lindies, because anything faster makes me think "ballroom jive" time. Then again, I am a more ballroom and westie-minded dancer too, so I can always enjoy it at any speed. :-D

[MEEPEE]

225 BPM - Swingtime in the Rockies-Benny Goodman
h t t p:// store.artistdirect.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Search?select=Songs&searchstr=Swingtime+in+the+rockies&searchtype=NormalSearch&start=1&from=schema&submit.x=17&submit.y=8

235 BPM - Sugarfoot Stomp-Fletcher Henderson
h t t p:// ubl.artistdirect.com/music/artist/songs/0,,431084-2,00.html

262 BPM - Traffic Jam-Artie Shaw
h t t p:// store.artistdirect.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Search?select=Songs&searchstr=Traffic+Jam&searchtype=NormalSearch&start=19&from=shopping

322 smokin' BPM's - White Heat-Jimmie Lunceford ("Lunceford Special" Album)
h t t p:// store.artistdirect.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Search?select=Songs&searchstr=white+heat&searchtype=NormalSearch&start=1&from=schema

[swinginstyle]

Cool thread. I can do fast lindy for a little while before I bust into bal and/or Charleston. I really need to build my endurance.

[jdavidb]

Hey this thread is 5 months old :o So, 5 months later, I am to the point where I can do all that I know at 280 bpm & probably up to 300, but I burn through my entire repertoire in 5 seconds! Not that quick, but I start getting repetitive real early at these tempos.

[MEEPEE]

Swingouts are like snowflakes - no two are ever exactly alike. How can you ever get bored of that?

[Diavo]

MEEPEE, thanks for that list, it helps. :)

I just saw Big Bad Voodoo Daddy (again) this weekend -- man, I can't even stand still when they play! It was in a club, but that didn't stop me from dancin' up a storm. :D

[swinginstyle]

I just danced fast shag this weekend. Cotton Tail by Duke Ellington. Give me an oxygen mask!

[Diavo]

Oxygen mask and an IV of water for me!