Blinded by the sight

[Tinydancergirl]

We all know how much importance is placed on the visual aspect of ballroom dancing. Having the right hairstyle, makeup, etc. My question is this- how much does the costume effect judging? I know that judges have probably "seen it all" when it comes to costumes, from the downright embarassing to the OMG factor. Are the judges immune to such visual distractions, so that they only concentrate on the technique, and not the faux pas of a questionable costume? I ask this because I just had a latin dress made. It is quite skimpy, (think Carolina outfits) and while I have gotten several positive comments on it, I haven't actually competed in it. I take my dancing very seriously and a lot of thought and design went into the making of this dress, however, I don't want this dress to overshadow my technique. I don't think it will, but you never know.
Tinydancergirl

[Corne]

If you haven't seen this thread, you might want to look into it.

what are judges looking for in a competition (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=21252&highlight=costume+judging)

[Tinydancergirl]

If you haven't seen this thread, you might want to look into it.

what are judges looking for in a competition (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=21252&highlight=costume+judging)

Thanks. I have read the thread, all 34 pages of it, and it got off topic, so I thought I might try another thread. I really am interested in the opinions of DF posters here regarding latin costumes since there is more "ahem" to view, good and bad.;)
Tinydancergirl

[and123]

IMO, if you have a great body and want to showcase it, go for it. If wearing it mentally affects how you dance in a bad way, don't wear it til you know you can rock it properly.

Oh, and pics would be nice :p

[Warren J. Dew]

I don't think the judges pay too much attention to the costuming. They are judging the dancing, and can usually see past the costumes.

That's not to say that what you wear doesn't matter. A dress that complements your dancing well - showing off your strengths, hiding your weaknesses - can help you get better marks.

[jjs914]

I think that costume will affect judging if you're inappropriately dressed, or if you don't look the part. I have a hard time believing that costume won't factor in if you are dancing pre-champ latin and your costume/hair/makeup looks like something someone at a lower level would wear.

However, I don't think that skimpiness is considered inappropriate for latin...so if you're comfortable and you look like you're rocking, I would say you're fine. And good for you!

[Chiron]

Talking to some judges I know they've told me that good dancing is the number one thing they look for, if you dance much better you should win. However if things are similar, costuming and other things come into play. I've also heard that a good costume should enhance your dancing, showing off your strengths and hiding your weaknesses. If your body is one of your strengths and comfortable with it I would say rock it.

[fascination]

a beautiful body is an asset...but all things should be in good taste...even the firmest butt cheek isn't something we need to see...and it is not only distracting but inappropriate...if you have doubts about what you are wearing...you should wear something else

[Corne]

if you have doubts about what you are wearing...you should wear something else

i also operate by that rule in general. always work out for the best.

[BasicsFirst]

Agreed, but "skimpy" is what YOU called it. Will it be skimpy compared to the rest of them? My DP's first Latin dress had full length sleeves... swore that's all she'd ever wear. Now (years later), she has three Latin dresses that are sleeveless. You can probably guess she wasn't comfortable the first time wearing her first one. Might be worth it to go a 'little' outside your comfort zone, but it sounds like you're worried more about what others will think.

[Tinydancergirl]

Agreed, but "skimpy" is what YOU called it. Will it be skimpy compared to the rest of them? My DP's first Latin dress had full length sleeves... swore that's all she'd ever wear. Now (years later), she has three Latin dresses that are sleeveless. You can probably guess she wasn't comfortable the first time wearing her first one. Might be worth it to go a 'little' outside your comfort zone, but it sounds like you're worried more about what others will think.

I think I need to explain the situation a little clearer. I am very comfortable with the dress, in fact I love it. I'm 5'2" and 98 pounds and in very good shape, and, thank the Lord, while I do have a little something upstairs, I'm not really worried about anything accidentally popping out. ;) However, the dress does show a lot of skin. What I'm worried about is that just maybe the judges will look more at the dress than my dancing. For example, the last comp I was at, I wore a different latin dress and I had more people come up to me, (pros, amateurs, audience) asking where I got the dress I wore, was it for sale, how incredible it looked, etc. I was kinda disappointed, because I was hoping to hear how well I danced, not how great the dress was. I did place first in all my heats, so I know I did ok, and even thought the dress was gorgeous I really didn't want the dress to outshine me, ya know? I guess the only thing to do is to wear my new dress, observe the reactions of those around and then make my decision on how I want to design my next dress based on that.
Tinydancergirl

[fascination]

people compliment me on my gowns all the time...I wouldn't assume that meant they didn't see my dancing particualrly if I marked well....if you feel comfortable in it, wear it...but again 98 pounds still doesn't give you carte blanche on what is appropriate and I would bear that in mind

[Joe]

What I'm worried about is that just maybe the judges will look more at the dress than my dancing.
If it's as skimpy as you say, it's not gonna be the dress they're looking at. ;)

[SwingWaltz]

I think it's more to do with the over all presentation than just the costume as a fashion per se. It's more about how you dress to present yourself as professional or at least present appropriate for the dances.

[Tinydancergirl]

people compliment me on my gowns all the time...I wouldn't assume that meant they didn't see my dancing particualrly if I marked well....if you feel comfortable in it, wear it...but again 98 pounds still doesn't give you carte blanche on what is appropriate and I would bear that in mind

I had over ten fittings, from scratch to finish, designed by a top notch designer, so, yes, I feel very comfortable wearing it, because I know that it fits me like a glove and nothing, nothing inappropriate will show. I'm not sure why you blantantly think being 98 pounds would give me or anyone who's that weight carte blanche on what is appropriate. Do you think that anyone that size will always flaunt it? How about the dancers who try to squeeze a size 12 body into a size 3 dress? I'm sure many people in the audience have seen that one time or another and to me that is very unappropriate! See, that's what I find so frustrating about being the size I am. Everyone I meet wants to know WHY I am so small and how cute my figure is, and please, please tell me what are your anorexic secrets/tricks! (Huh? ***? -how about this advice--eat healthy and exercise!) My typical outfit for the day consist of jeans, sandals and tshirt. Nothing special.
My post was in regards to judging and how a dress might effect a result. I take my dancing incredibly seriously and was looking for comments regarding judging, since I am rather new to the comp world.
Tinydancergirl

[Tinydancergirl]

If it's as skimpy as you say, it's not gonna be the dress they're looking at. ;)


See, that's what I'm concerned about. Carolina T. , for example, has had some incredibly skimpy outfits. Has that attracted or detracted from her judging? I just don't know.
Tinydancergirl

[fascination]

I'm sorry, I thought you were actually seeking advice...If you are comfortable in the outfit and you are certain that it is appropriate why on earth would you wonder whether or not professional judges would be swayed?...perhaps you should rachet down the defensiveness a bit...or not ask for other folks points of view...nowhere in anything I posted did I say that persons who were 98 pounds were inclined to overtly flaunt it...only that however fit one is doesn't preclude one from being inappropriate...one can be a bag of bones and show too much or too heavy and show too much...THAT was my point and I don't appreciate your characterization of my point of view..FTR my daughter is your weight and looks ghastly in minimal outfits...much as I love her...and I don't look a whit better in them for opposing reasons

[fascination]

See, that's what I'm concerned about. Carolina T. , for example, has had some incredibly skimpy outfits. Has that attracted or detracted from her judging? I just don't know.
Tinydancergirl
I believe she was hurt by it once at ohio b/c of how it ended up rising up...but I rather doubt it matters...let's give professional judges the respect they deserve for goodness sakes

[mamboqueen]

A nice eye-catching dress may draw a judge's eye to you - that is a good thing! Actually, I would say even moreso if you are petite and might get lost on the floor otherwise. I think it's a little different than being a bride, where you want people to notice you, not necessarily the gown. As long as it isn't drawing eyes for a bad reason (parts hanging out), then you should wear whatever you like and are comfortable in.

[FeetwithaBeat]

If your dress is being made by a top design pro in the dance industry then you should be able to count on the designer's opinion regarding whether or not the dress will be offensive to judges or not.

All things being equal I think most judges look at dancing first UNLESS something offensive takes away from the dancing. That is (as you said) a size 12 squeezed into a size 3 (and yes I've certainly seen that at top level comps); a dress that shows inappropriate parts of the anatomy or creates the illusion of showing inappropriate parts; a dress that is very obviously NOT made well (one dress seller once made the distinction between HOMEMADE and HAND MADE. Hand Made being a dress made to look good and appropriate and Homemade being one made by an inexperienced sewer <one with little to no knolwedge of making a dancesport gown/dress> and using second rate stones etc).

Haven't we all seen someone wearing a costume (I use the word COSTUME as opposed to dress in this instance on purpose) that was so hideous that it totally detracted from their dancing? Then if it effects the observer that way to be sure the judges notice as well.

Bottom line is that if you feel comfortable in the dress, with your body, with your dancing and YOUR dress designer and YOUR pro and your coaches agree, then wear the dress! BTW many times people want to buy costumes because they are presented so well by the dancer -- I wouldn't take those requests to buy the dress as an indication that the people only saw the dress, I would be quite flattered that your dancing presented the dress so well!

[fascination]

yes...

[mamboqueen]

very well said.

*buys FWAB a margarita*

[soshedances]

Bottom line is that if you feel comfortable in the dress, with your body, with your dancing and YOUR dress designer and YOUR pro and your coaches agree, then wear the dress! BTW many times people want to buy costumes because they are presented so well by the dancer -- I wouldn't take those requests to buy the dress as an indication that the people only saw the dress, I would be quite flattered that your dancing presented the dress so well!

Exactly. Whatever you wear, be confident in it and do your best dancing to show it off!

[FeetwithaBeat]

very well said.

*buys FWAB a margarita*

Thanks!!!:D

[mamboqueen]

Thanks!!!:D

You're welcome. :ladiesma:

[Tinydancergirl]

If your dress is being made by a top design pro in the dance industry then you should be able to count on the designer's opinion regarding whether or not the dress will be offensive to judges or not.

All things being equal I think most judges look at dancing first UNLESS something offensive takes away from the dancing. That is (as you said) a size 12 squeezed into a size 3 (and yes I've certainly seen that at top level comps); a dress that shows inappropriate parts of the anatomy or creates the illusion of showing inappropriate parts; a dress that is very obviously NOT made well (one dress seller once made the distinction between HOMEMADE and HAND MADE. Hand Made being a dress made to look good and appropriate and Homemade being one made by an inexperienced sewer <one with little to no knolwedge of making a dancesport gown/dress> and using second rate stones etc).

Haven't we all seen someone wearing a costume (I use the word COSTUME as opposed to dress in this instance on purpose) that was so hideous that it totally detracted from their dancing? Then if it effects the observer that way to be sure the judges notice as well.

Bottom line is that if you feel comfortable in the dress, with your body, with your dancing and YOUR dress designer and YOUR pro and your coaches agree, then wear the dress! BTW many times people want to buy costumes because they are presented so well by the dancer -- I wouldn't take those requests to buy the dress as an indication that the people only saw the dress, I would be quite flattered that your dancing presented the dress so well!

Thank you :). I appreciate your comments so much!

[Tinydancergirl]

I'm sorry, I thought you were actually seeking advice...
My original post was: does a costume affect judging? I was seeking comments on that question.

If you are comfortable in the outfit and you are certain that it is appropriate why on earth would you wonder whether or not professional judges would be swayed?...
Sheesh. I've stated that I am comfortable with the dress and that it is appropriate! It's just skimpy, small. And the reason as to why on earth would I wonder whether or not professional judges would be swayed is...because I simply and honestly don't know! I'm fairly new to this whole comp thing! That's why I asked in the original post!
perhaps you should rachet down the defensiveness a bit...
Perhaps you should not have commented on my size and the carte blanche comment. It was a blank statement. My question was about judging, not how much I weigh.


or not ask for other folks points of view...nowhere in anything I posted did I say that persons who were 98 pounds were inclined to overtly flaunt it...only that however fit one is doesn't preclude one from being inappropriate
I honestly can't fathom why we are still discussing this! My OP didn't state that! I mentoned that my dress was skimpy, not inappropriate! Jeez, all I wanted to know if a judge marks could be effected by a dress that might overshadow the dancer.

..one can be a bag of bones and show too much or too heavy and show too much...THAT was my point and I don't appreciate your characterization of my point of view..FTR my daughter is your weight and looks ghastly in minimal outfits...much as I love her...and I don't look a whit better in them for opposing reasons

I don't know what to say about your daughter. I'm sorry she looks ghastly in minimal outfits. But it doesn't matter, does it, cause that is not the point! I asked about judging, and you jumped into comments about my size and inappropriate clothing.
I think I will just bow out of this right now, since you seem to be looking for a fight and that's not what I want.

[mamboqueen]

*throws ref flag*

I seriously don't think fasc is looking for a fight; it's not her style and I think you'll see that once you've been around here for a while (and I don't think she'd still be a moderator if she was known to pick fights...but that's just my humble opinion).

At the end of the day, you've described your dress and you've described yourself. I don't think anyone here can really answer your question because we would have know way of knowing how good your technique is and if your dress is overshadowing it (and really, 99% of us aren't judges here). I know I have been guilty of doing that early on in my dancing -- gorgeous dress but less than stellar dancing.

Maybe you or your teacher/coach would be best served to ask a judge who sees you dance?

[Purr]

Isn't there a thread for questions to ask the judges? Maybe one should be added regarding costuming, unless there is one already out there.

[mamboqueen]

Well, I remember there was a link to a comp wesbite (thinking Emerald Ball, but it was last year's version that had it) that actually had judges being interviewed about what they look for - and costuming was discussed. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Okay; didn't find the thread, but found the interviews still on EB website. I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I always like re-hearing this stuff.

http://www.dvgrafix.com/flash02/about_proam/About_ProAm.html

[Purr]

I think costumes should be appropriate to a person's body type and age. I also like costumes that are elegant and tasteful.

[fascination]

I think I need to explain the situation a little clearer. I am very comfortable with the dress, in fact I love it. I'm 5'2" and 98 pounds and in very good shape, and, thank the Lord, while I do have a little something upstairs, I'm not really worried about anything accidentally popping out. ;) However, the dress does show a lot of skin. What I'm worried about is that just maybe the judges will look more at the dress than my dancing. For example, the last comp I was at, I wore a different latin dress and I had more people come up to me, (pros, amateurs, audience) asking where I got the dress I wore, was it for sale, how incredible it looked, etc. I was kinda disappointed, because I was hoping to hear how well I danced, not how great the dress was. I did place first in all my heats, so I know I did ok, and even thought the dress was gorgeous I really didn't want the dress to outshine me, ya know? I guess the only thing to do is to wear my new dress, observe the reactions of those around and then make my decision on how I want to design my next dress based on that.
Tinydancergirlyou asked us to address this concern...I am poster here just like everyone else, voicing only my opinion...my point was that A) anyone of any size can look innapproriate in something skimpy (my daughter, as she is struggling to gain weight...and I don't take that lightly, or myself, as I struggle to lose it, or someone too old or someone too young...there are very few folk except those in their absolute peak who can get away with the barest possible outfit...that was my point b/c you stated that due to your size it shouldn't be an issue...B)when you discarded that concern and and stated that you weren't uncomfortable in the outfit and that it wasn't inappropriate, then my point was; isn't it a bit irrational to assume that trained judges who look at beautiful perfect bodies in skimpy outfits all day long everyday are going to be swayed by yours? just seems silly...again I have been responding as a regular poster and like any other regular poster who answered you in good faith and got defensiveness in return, I take serious issue with your tone...having said that I will now put my mod hat on and say that any futher issues between you and I on the issue between our posts to each other will be via p.m....and I will leave others to continue to answer your question provided that they stay on topic

[Laura]

As long as it isn't drawing eyes for a bad reason (parts hanging out)
Or being a tacky or otherwise ghastly outfit -- which does not seem to be the case here but I had to add this because sometimes you do see eye-ball bending outfits on people with nice figures.

[Tinydancergirl]

Well, I remember there was a link to a comp wesbite (thinking Emerald Ball, but it was last year's version that had it) that actually had judges being interviewed about what they look for - and costuming was discussed. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Edit: Okay; didn't find the thread, but found the interviews still on EB website. I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I always like re-hearing this stuff.

http://www.dvgrafix.com/flash02/about_proam/About_ProAm.html

Ooh, thank you for your help. The web is a huge source of info, but finding specific things can be a pain, if you don't know where to look. Going to view it now!:D
Tinydancergirl

[mamboqueen]

Or being a tacky or otherwise ghastly outfit -- which does not seem to be the case here but I had to add this because sometimes you do see eye-ball bending outfits on people with nice figures.

Always brings me back to one pro's "tribble" dress. But, it all goes to show you how people's tastes can be really quite different.

[mamboqueen]

Ooh, thank you for your help. The web is a huge source of info, but finding specific things can be a pain, if you don't know where to look. Going to view it now!:D
Tinydancergirl

Not sure how helpful it wil be...just re-listened to them all myself. But, I'd still suggest asking your teacher/coach...and if you or they know someone who judges. And like someone upthread said..most reputable dress makers are adept at what will work for someone.

[SDsalsaguy]

fascination was far from looking for a fight... a point that I think is quite obvious if you read any of her comments with any distance. She only voiced her opinion.

As far as your original question all we have is speculation and opinion until we have judges' responses to this -- a question already "in line" for our ask the judges feature.

[Purr]

A moderator can deactivate the link if need be. However, Judge's Soapbox articles from David Hamilton, Rosendo Fumero and Eddie Simon may be found here.

http://www.dancesportucr.com/resources.htm

[mamboqueen]

good one, Purr!

[Tinydancergirl]

you asked us to address this concern...I am poster here just like everyone else, voicing only my opinion...my point was that A) anyone of any size can look innapproriate in something skimpy (my daughter, as she is struggling to gain weight...and I don't take that lightly, or myself, as I struggle to lose it, or someone too old or someone too young...there are very few folk except those in their absolute peak who can get away with the barest possible outfit...that was my point b/c you stated that due to your size it shouldn't be an issue...B)when you discarded that concern and and stated that you weren't uncomfortable in the outfit and that it wasn't inappropriate, then my point was; isn't it a bit irrational to assume that trained judges who look at beautiful perfect bodies in skimpy outfits all day long everyday are going to be swayed by yours? just seems silly...again I have been responding as a regular poster and like any other regular poster who answered you in good faith and got defensiveness in return, I take serious issue with your tone...having said that I will now put my mod hat on and say that any futher issues between you and I on the issue between our posts to each other will be via p.m....and I will leave others to continue to answer your question provided that they stay on topic

Yes, I agree totally on the pm. Thank you for not letting this get into any further deep water than it already is. I would not like this thread closed for others who might wish to continue. If we have disagreements, it is much more beneficial to hash it out privately and not subject anyone else with it. I apologize to anyone here who has felt uncomfortable with my and fascinations comments to each other; it was unfair to all of you, and I again ask for forgiveness for having you all witness our comments to each other.
Tinydancergirl

[Purr]

good one, Purr!

:cool:

[Tinydancergirl]

Always brings me back to one pro's "tribble" dress. But, it all goes to show you how people's tastes can be really quite different.

Okay, I think I know what you mean. Is a tribble the same as what was on Star Trek? Those furry little balls? Am I correct?
Tinydancergirl

[mamboqueen]

Okay, I think I know what you mean. Is a tribble the same as what was on Star Trek? Those furry little balls? Am I correct?
Tinydancergirl

Yes, and someone quite high up in the latin ranks wore a dress that looked like it was adorned by the furry little creatures. Quite unique...although not particularly my taste :)

[Purr]

Yes, and someone quite high up in the latin ranks wore a dress that looked like it was adorned by the furry little creatures. Quite unique...although not particularly my taste :)

One dress I saw recently was beige colored, with adornments of fur. The whole effect was if the dress had been attacked by a weasel, and the weasel lost.

[Tinydancergirl]

Yes, and someone quite high up in the latin ranks wore a dress that looked like it was adorned by the furry little creatures. Quite unique...although not particularly my taste :)

Wow. Puff balls all over. :) You just gotta love originality!
Tinydancergirl

[mamboqueen]

Did you guys see this one posted in the Blackpool thread? Her partner is a real fox!

http://www.danceplaza.com/index.tpl?style=foto&action=overview&gallery=Rob_Ronda/Blackpool_Dance_Festival_2008/Specials&dirid=2910

(6 down on the right)

[Tinydancergirl]

One dress I saw recently was beige colored, with adornments of fur. The whole effect was if the dress had been attacked by a weasel, and the weasel lost.

Oh gosh, reminds me of a friend, who had those long attachments of boa on a dress. Her cat drove her crazy everytime she put it on. Very funny to see her running for her life, while her kitty chased her madly around.
Tinydancergirl

[Laura]

Did you guys see this one posted in the Blackpool thread? Her partner is a real fox!

http://www.danceplaza.com/index.tpl?style=foto&action=overview&gallery=Rob_Ronda/Blackpool_Dance_Festival_2008/Specials&dirid=2910

(6 down on the right)
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.

Didn't Karina Smirnoff have one at USDSC one year that had a stuffed snake (toy snake) that was attached running up one side and around her neckline?

[chachachacat]

How do her bangs stay like that when she's upside down????
2nd to last row. Does anybody know?

[and123]

magnets? :p

[soshedances]

She probably dried them with a round brush and some hairspray toward the roots. I had bangs like that once...still kind of do, except not as full.

[FeetwithaBeat]

One dress I saw recently was beige colored, with adornments of fur. The whole effect was if the dress had been attacked by a weasel, and the weasel lost.

ROFLM*O

[Warren J. Dew]

How do her bangs stay like that when she's upside down????
2nd to last row. Does anybody know?

Her head is going down so fast the wind is keeping the bangs against her forehead.

Okay, just kidding. Lots and lots of hairspray and gel cured with a hair dryer with the temperature set on "high". Remember, you haven't used enough gel until your hair is hard enough to deflect small caliber bullets.