Axis and Balance

[Zoopsia59]

I know how I use these terms, and they aren't interchangable for me.

What do some of you mean when you use the terms "on axis" and "on balance"? It seems I see a lot of people (not here nessesarily, just in general) using the term "on axis" or "off axis" to mean on or off "BALANCE".

That's not how I use it, so I'm curious how the rest of you relate to these concepts.

[Ampster]

Yup, I understand and use those terms contextually to interchange with each other depending whom I'm talking to.

[dchester]

One of my teachers makes a distinction between the two. Typically when she is talking about off axis, she is referring to me tilting her to the left or right on a couple of moves (but not so much that that she is off balance). It's a bad thing, just not as bad as being off balance.

[opendoor]

.. so I'm curious how the rest of you relate to these concepts.

Hi Zoopsia, I use the term off axis in both ways:

1) to stumble or to lose the grounding,

2) to give up ones own axis in a posture and join it with the partner´s. You can do this by leaning to one another (volcada) or from one another (colgada).

Perhaps there is a third meaning. When I started to dance I often heard f.i. "...you push me out of my axis" (while I kept my axis and did not stumble).

Greetings

[Peaches]

I think of axis as where I'm supposed to be carrying myself at a given moment. It could be "off axis" in apilado or "on my own axis" in salon or open embrace; it could be "off axis" deliberately in a volcada or colgada.

I think of balance as an issue of control. I try to always be balanced. Even in apilado, or a volcada, I need to be controling my balance to not fall sideways, or not wobble. If I'm on my own axis, I need to be balanced so I can control my movement.

[Ampster]

Yup, I understand and use those terms contextually to interchange with each other depending whom I'm talking to.

Gee, what was I thinking?:confused: This is the reason you should not answer posts at 2:00 AM after a loooong day of trying to finish work...Duh :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I think about on/off axis, I'm normally inclined to think about movents that pivot in a circular motion, e.g. calecitas, molinetes, giros, colgadas, volcadas, etc. These are pivoting motions that you have to maintain (as a lead), lest you knock your partner over.

When I think of on/off balance, I think of movements that are more linear in nature e.g. caminadas (walks). Generally each partner,s ability to move with each other without pulling, pushing, or having to muscle each other to keep upright

[BlueSkies]

Hi all,

Great question! As ever I like to point out that I'm really a tango newbie before I open my mouth...

My understanding of these terms would be:-

Similarly to Peaches comment, "Balance" to me carries the idea of being in control of your body and "off balance" would thus be a bad thing.

"Axis" I think of more as a term of description for use in technique... e.g. one might change the axis of one's own or one's follower's body or change the axis of a rotation in a controlled way, so "off axis" is not a bad thing.

It occurs to me that this might mean that the actual words "off axis" don't describe precisely what's going on - so if a volcada is sometimes described as an "off axis" move, that might be better described as a temporary change of axis or a temporary move to a shared axis. Especially if we think of a follower doing that as keeping her body straight and not buckling in the middle - being straight she is changing her axis forward... if she buckles or either of us loses control of the change, she or I would then be "off balance".

Equally I guess if I through bad technique pull my partner "off their axis", I would maybe think of that as being me knocking them "off balance", whereas if I change the axis of my own or my followers movement in a deliberate and controlled way, then we're not "off axis", we've just changed our axis.

And perhaps even, the axis of a rotation might not be the same as the point of balance at all and might not go through centre of gravity...

Oh dear, the more I type the more confused I get... time to shut up!

Blue

[jennyisdancing]

I'm confused, too. Have taken many kinds of dance classes but hadn't heard the term 'axis' really used much, in other styles. My only previous knowledge of the term was the way it is used in ballet/modern/contemporary, where it simply means the vertical line through the center of your body and does not imply being off balance. A solo modern dancer would have to maintain control over their own balance no matter how their axis is positioned. More background here. (http://phronesisaical.blogspot.com/2006/12/brief-uneducated-history-of.html)

In AT, however, my teachers use it as a synonym for maintaining your own balance. I understand an "off-axis" move to be one in which your partner has to take primary responsibility to keep you from falling down. In BlueSkies' example of a volcada, it's true that the follower needs to maintain a strong, straight body line to assist in the move, but still, there is a point where she is so far forward that from a physics point of view, it's not possible for her to stay up under her own power. So that has to do with balance, doesn't it?

[bordertangoman]

At risk of disagreeing with most everybody;

I regard off-axis as an intentional move into a volcada or similar move.

But constantly through our movement the axis will be changing and "balance" is both a fluid and static thing. Listen to Laurie Anderson's song "Walking & Falling" and you may gain an insight that walking involves a tipping of the axis; a deliberatley chaotic movement which we then control by arriving on a foot.

[Steve Pastor]

Dance teachers aren't physicists (and neither am I), and maybe that's a good thing. Nevertheless, I'd like to note that the word "axis" is most commonly used when discussing rotation.

When dancers speak of being "off axis" they usually mean away from their vertical axis.

When I write something like "I coudn't feel her axis", I am refering to a not so imaginary line though her body. A "straight line" that goes into the floor through my partner's feet.
That straight line does not have to be vertical.
When partner's share weight, as in apilado, we can visualize a straight line from the center of gravity of the couple vertically into the floor, which would be their vertical axis.
Discussions of physics and dance will show this vertical line, but usually don't label them as an "axis" unless there if rotation around that axis.

I think it's unfortunate that most people think of their own axis, rather than the axis of the couple that they are part of. I personally feel that you are more of "a couple", this being a partner dance after all, when you think more about "our", and less about "my".

From the web page..
http://web.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/dance/dance_physics.html#5

Static balance
We all know what it means.... In physics terms:
Net force is zero (otherwise your momentum would change: you might fall)
Net torque is zero (otherwise your angular momentum would change: you might tip over)
Staying balanced: dancer's center of gravity must remain directly above the area of contact with the floor. (Otherwise, : you'd tip over.)
Smaller floor contact area (en pointe, for example) makes balance more difficult.

Maintaining balance:
shift foot to move floor contact area
adjust arms/legs/torso to move c.g.

[kieronneedscake]

One can be on balance, but squarely on both feet, and therefore impossible (difficult) to move around an axis, but being on axis one must also be balanced. I view it as a slightly more specific term with more connotations than just maintaining your balance.

As others have observed, an axis can be tilted, or extended outside of the body to create some of the more fantastic moves.

[Angel HI]

I know how I use these terms, and they aren't interchangable for me.

I agree w/ Zoop, and also believe Peache's post to be the most accurate, and in line w/ my thoughts.

When dancers speak of being "off axis" they usually mean away from their vertical axis.

...That straight line does not have to be vertical.

I think it's unfortunate that most people think of their own axis, rather than the axis of the couple that they are part of.

Good points, as well.