Ballet for Standard dancers

[vcolfari]

I am considering taking a beginning ballet class to improve posture, allignment, flexibility, balance, and foot strength. The ballet dancers I know believe ballet will surely be beneficial; however, the ballroom dancers I talked to have suggested that they were able to benefit more from using their time to develop ballroom technique than they did from ballet. A few even told me that they found ballet to be detrimental (because of poise, turnout, etc.) to their ballroom dancing. Would ballet be a useful adjunct for a male Standard dancer or should I spend my time on ballroom technique, specifically?

[hanqiaorui]

I am considering taking a beginning ballet class to improve posture, allignment, flexibility, balance, and foot strength. The ballet dancers I know believe ballet will surely be beneficial; however, the ballroom dancers I talked to have suggested that they were able to benefit more from using their time to develop ballroom technique than they did from ballet. A few even told me that they found ballet to be detrimental (because of poise, turnout, etc.) to their ballroom dancing. Would ballet be a useful adjunct for a male Standard dancer or should I spend my time on ballroom technique, specifically?I also want to know the answer.

[dancepro]

I would not suggest doing ballet, if you are doing standard and are a female. First of all, in ballet they try to always be on one foot or the other, in standard a lady should always dance between feet. Second in ballet they work against gravity and standard you should work with gravity. Depending on what school of thought you follow there might also be a problem with the use of muscles. If you follow the Square or the Body system, you should have the muscles be as relaxed as possible. The Traditional and the Round system does use similar muscle tone as ballet. The final problem with ballet is the turn out of the legs and feet. That kind of action is not used often in Standard. I would suggest doing pilates for all the schools of thought and
Tai Chi for the Square and Body Schools.

Happy dancing:D

[samina]

Dancepro, what are the Square & Body systems vs the Traditional & Round systems? It sounds like I'm being taught one of the former, and I've noticed others have a different orienation.

Where are these defined and detailed?

[dancepro]

As a male dancer you should stay away from ballet as the posture of a male standard dancer is totally different then a ballet dancer. The way you should carry the upper back and your arms are very, very different. If you do want to get some basic information and technique of basic posture you could do some Alexander Technique classes. It is good to look at other ways to get information and clarity. Don't get obsessive about it though, you want to be a good standard dancer so focus you main attention on that.

[dancepro]

There was two articles written about the different schools of though in "Dance Notes" of November/December and again in the March/April issue (It think). It was Christine Zona interviewing Maja Serve.

[Chris Stratton]

First of all, in ballet they try to always be on one foot or the other, in standard a lady should always dance between feet.

I strongly disagree about the transfer of weight in standard. Achieving the full character of the dances requires learning to aim the movements with precision, so that when you go onto a foot you can go cleanly and completely onto it without reservation. If you have to use partial weight on your moving foot to control your body movement or timing, then there's something more fundamentally wrong with the habits of body movement that will need to be fixed first.

It's true that there shouldn't be any visible "bump" as you come onto a step, but that's achieved by perfectly timing when you have to commit the body weight to a foot so that you can land softly, not by indistinctly blurring the weight from one foot to the other. Also just because you've moved your weight off a foot doesn't mean that you should retract the foot yet - there's a time to commit to the new foot, and a different time to start withdrawing the old one. The delay between leaving a foot and moving it often creates an important part of the body position - stretching away from that departed leg inflecting the shape of the upper body in a small but important way. But it's still a leg that has been departed.

It's so much easier to dance with a partner when you can tell exactly where their weight balance is. Even if it's not where you hoped it would have gone, knowing the truth gives you something you can work with. In fact, it's important to be able to feel the instant when your partner's balance has moved beyond their standing foot - to know when they are irrevocably committed to movement. One might think that by staying between the feet you preserve options, but standard isn't about preserving options - it's about clearly declaring an intent, fully going for it with both your body weight and your partners, and then working forward from whatever you actually got.

[Laura]

I took ballet for a number of years while dancing Standard, and so long as you can keep straight what is appropriate for each discipline I think it's helpful. It helped to strengthen my feet, ankles, and knees -- all very important for dancing in general. It also gave me a place to experiment with feeling and using my core. In fact, I've been thinking for a while about going back to ballet because I feel my feet and ankles were stronger when I was going to ballet class twice a week.

[Warren J. Dew]

The main potential problem to watch out for would be the turnout, which is desirable in ballet - and to some extent in latin - but generally not in ballroom.

I think that for a beginner, ballet classes could help with posture. I don't see the desired posture as that much different - or rather, I see the range of postures that different people use as having a lot of overlap. I agree that carriage of the arms is different, but that shouldn't be too hard to keep straight.

Laura has a point that ballet instruction seems to recognize the importance of foot and leg strength; this tends to be neglected in ballroom instruction, perhaps because there is so much more technique to learn.

[Chris Stratton]

I have a suspicion that the reason ballet is kind of the foundation technique for most formal study of performance dance isn't that it's necessarily the most suitable set of techniques (and actually, I'm guessing there's probably a lot of departure from ballet technique as each dance form gains its own legitimacy), but instead simply because ballet posses a complete and fully developed language and tradition of structured study.

So what I see Warren or Laura recommended from ballet is ultimately to take advantage of the fact that people expect ballet to be about drilling details of body usage in front of a mirror, while they don't expect that in ballroom. But if you could get that kind of rigorous body training focused on ballroom, that would probably be better than borrowing it from a different dance that will do some key things differently.

[dancepro]

There is a big difference between the man's technique and the lady's technique. A famous teacher by the name Benny Tolmeyer always said "The man dances from foot to foot and the lady dances between feet". There will be a conflict between the man and the lady if they do the same. It would be the same as if you were two people serving at the same time in tennis. In tennis there is one person serving (in dancing the man) and one person receiving (in dancing the lady). As the man has the right to change the timing, direction and the step at any time it would not be good for the lady to be on one foot or the other. Of course if she knows the step and he never changes the timing, direction and step it would be possible to be on one or the other foot. My partner never danced routines. He would dance whatever he felt like at that movement. We would never have made it if I had been on one foot or the other.

[Chris Stratton]

There is a big difference between the man's technique and the lady's technique. A famous teacher by the name Benny Tolmeyer always said "The man dances from foot to foot and the lady dances between feet". There will be a conflict between the man and the lady if they do the same.

True, but sometimes I will send her to arrive before me, and sometimes I will send me to arrive before her. In either case, whoever comes second has to adapt to the foot position that their partner has committed to. Forward half of turn- she has to match me. Backward half, I have to match her - not perhaps to the same dramatic degree, but I still must accomodate my partner.

As the man has the right to change the timing, direction and the step at any time it would not be good for the lady to be on one foot or the other.

I would disagree that I have the right to make fundamental changes at 'any' time. Instead, I found that learning to lead well was largely about learning to recognize the opportunities when I could change something, and that once these had passed I then had to live with the results of my decision and my partner's interpretation of it. It's true that I will sometimes give up on a particular try at executing something because the pre-requisite doesn't seem to have been achieved, even when I probably could still "muscle" us through to the desired result. But instead I'd rather change to an alternate figure that is naturally suggested by where we've ended up.

The idea of specific opportunities to inflect the movement, and then having to go with the results, also ties in quite closely with the structure of the characteristic figures of the swing dances. Typically, CBM on one (decision point) produces new line of movement on three. Yes, there's some ability to fine-tune things once they are under way, and for the more skilled dancers, possibilities to entrain the movement in a more continuous change (like driving the CBM around a curve in the actual CBM step rather that taking it in the pre-existing direction). But still, as a general guideline, I find the kind of setup and then follow through structure of the characteristic figures to suggest a very sound fundamental habit of how to move.

Obviously any reserve capacity to patch up differences in foot placement is a great asset, but I prefer to aim the movements in a way that's going to minimize the need for this. It's kind of like saying, if I have a bowling bowling ball on a string, and I launch it into this swing, then if I want to stay with it I'll have to move my own body this way. Obviously my partner has a lot more skill than that, but if I send her in such a way that her center follows the path that the bowling ball would have, and am prepared to accomodate that in my body, then she's going to have an easier time of things than if I launch us with less decisive clarity of intent and expect her to make up the difference in flight.

My partner never danced routines. He would dance whatever he felt like at that movement. We would never have made it if I had been on one foot or the other.

Until quite recently, I did not compete fixed routines either, instead preferring a dance that evolved more naturally, one figure connected to another in the moment rather than on paper. I've moved away from that to expand the variety of my repertoire, and do stick to the plan to a greater degree even if it no longer seems the best choice from the current situation, but ultimately, when quality of dance rather than competitiveness of presentation is at issue, I'd go back to the idea of committing to decisions and accepting the consequences by developing the variations that they suggest as they unfold. In short, I suggest a lot when leading, but I also do a *lot* of following in order to work with what I get.

[dancepro]

I think we are getting a little side track here. The question was whether ballet was good for standard dancers. I will still keep to my points that it is not the best as many things can't be brought across. This is just my opinion and my advise. You can take it how ever you want. Just writing from a little bit of experience.

[nevsky]

posture of a male standard dancer is totally different then a ballet dancer.
Really?

The way you should carry the upper back and your arms are very, very different.
Really???

Maybe you can explain what you mean by posture and by carrying your upper back and arms, because most things I've ever heard in both ballroom and ballet transfers very well from one to the other: use of the core to hold yourself up, use of the back to hold up the arms, use of legs and feet, grounding, epaulement as a good model of the poise, etc., etc., etc.

[Chris Stratton]

Everything on DF gets sidetracked. It looked to me as if everyone was pretty much in agreement that ballet was not the ideal source of training. Even if there are some interesting differences of opinion as to exactly why, the common message would probably be "because it's not targeted to the particular needs of ballroom".

The more interesting question might then be, what opportunities for ballroom-targeted body training of comparable rigor to the ballet tradition exist? There seems to be very little of this consistently offered in the kind of accessible, habitual, announced manner that would be needed to make a large scale difference in the ballroom community - instead, when the key ideas get effectively communicated, it's from a notable teacher to a handful of students, or even one idea every few months from a visiting teacher to a local community.

[dancepro]

When my partner and I competed, we were given a ton of exercise to do. Some where to be done before every practice, some where to be done as a weekly training. My partner and I had totally different exercises to do. The excises goes through each of the jobs that each of the partners does. The exercises gives the body the conditioning that is needed to be done. It would be very difficult to write these exercises down. I am sure most top couples has exercises that they do to condition the body to do what needs to be done. Ask you coach what they did to condition their body when they danced.

[Laura]

Ask you coach what they did to condition their body when they danced.
My previous teacher did ballet :)

[Chris Stratton]

Ask you coach what they did to condition their body when they danced.

Part of the problem I see with ballroom is that it's still in its infancy as an educational subject. This advice, which is about the only thing practical today, only works if you're in one of 3-4 cities in the US, and even then, it does not characterize the usual emphasis of training there. A child can be enrolled in ballet school anywhere, and while the accuracy of what they will get will very, the fact that there's someone making a business of trying to drill fundamental physical skills with a group of the public is already a major departure from the theme of most accessible ballroom classes. For real training in substance, ballroom is still stuck in the one-at-time apprenticeship paradigm; we haven't invented the university with its full mixture of lectures, labs, and post/graduate study yet.

My partner and I had totally different exercises to do.

I could see that at a very high level of development, but fundamentally if we look at the difference between members of the general public trying to dance, and intermediate competitors with even halfway developed fundamentals, there's a lot of room for drills to set common ideas long before you need to get into differences in jobs. I've heard of very few sustained efforts to offer this kind of sound physical beginning to new dancers - in fact, the only one I can think of wasn't even run by professional teachers, but was quite effective because it provided week after week in an introductory group setting what would elsewhere be mentioned only occasionally in a private lesson.

[tangotime]

.


This advice, which is about the only thing practical today, only works if you're in one of 3-4 cities in the US,

I

NYC, Chicago, LA, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, San Fran. Tampa, Detroit, Boston, Jax........
I believe there are several more locations which could meet those demands with the highest quality of understanding and instruction .

The marketing may be at fault, and also the willingness of participants in such an exercise.. but.. since never really exploited.. who knows ?

[Chris Stratton]

The problem is the difference between teachers who will eventually impart a lot of the key ideas to students who stick with them long enough, vs. programs where from day one, there's a plan for developing the really key long term ideas - and it's a plan that actually has people successfully following it. Too often what happens is that there's an effort to start something, but it doesn't quite hit the key issues in quite a way that would make a difference, and interest drops off.

- There do seem to be more examples of effectively teaching latin this way than teaching standard. I think it's because there's not as big a conceptual gap between a 'drill' and a solo practice routine for latin - it's a lot clearer what's important and what works vs. what doesn't because more of the latin primary skills are evident in a single body, while a lot of the demands of standard consist of one body learning to move in a way that can accomodate another.

- I've seen a number of examples where students where habitually doing what they considered to be standard drills, but in a way that reinforced a serious misunderstanding of standard movement. Drills only work if there's continual guidance to keep them developing in the desired direction.

[BallandChange]

I am considering taking a beginning ballet class to improve posture, allignment, flexibility, balance, and foot strength.

I have never taken ballet but I am sure that ballet training can help you in all of the above since these are some basic skills needed for most any dance. I also beleive that martial arts, acrobatics and/or any other physical training, that requires you to understand you center and maintaing balance, can help you develop most of these same skills. On the other hand, you need to realize that once you get past these basic skills there will be differences in technique that will be taught and drilled to train your body to do what is needed for that particular activity (ballet, martial arts, acrobatics, ballroom). This is where you need to be careful because you will need to be able to differentiate between the techniques for each activity. Example, Ballroom Standard requires that you feet be straight and not toe out, particluarly on your backward steps. I have seen many female ballet dancers (learning Ballrom Standard) struggle to maintain a straight foot becasue ballet training trained their feet to toe out. I also don't think that Ballet teaches you to roll through your foot as is required in Standard. And although good posture and a straight back is good for both dances the techniques to have a good position in standard frame is different than what a ballet dancer might do. My thoughts are that ballet training is much more helpful for you in developing you arm movements particularly for Latin and Smooth. I don't think that I would gravitate towars ballet for Standard. I would concentrate on learning and training my body in Standard technique and forgo Ballet.

[rinachick]

As a classically trained ballet dancer for 19 years, I must disagree with a lot of what has been said about ballet training being detrimental to standard dancing. Yes, there are some things that a ballet dancer has to "unlearn" for standard (ie not to turn out, not to pull the knees taught in rise), but overall, the basic concepts that you will learn from ballet are very valuable to standard dancing. I actually teach a ballet for ballroom dancers class that focuses on the aspects of ballet that help in both standard and latin.

The posture in standard for the lady is very similar to a position that's used as a stretch called cambre in ballet. The arms are held through the back in both dances, so I'd say from the shoulder to the elbow for both man and lady, the arms are the same for ballet and ballroom. In fact, taking ballet would build up those muscles you need to hold your arms since you have no partner to just let them drop on.

Ballet is not all about being lofted. There is a center of levitation (ribcage up), and a center of gravity (around the pelvis area down). Ballet dancers are taught to use the floor, as you need to do in standard. Also, you develop a strong core in ballet and learn how to hold the hips up so the legs are free to move (what's needed in standard to achieve movement).

In regard to being between the feet, in ballet, you never allow the tailbone to cross the center line, which is similar in all dance since it throws you off balance. In very fast movements, ballet dancers keep their weight centered between the feet so that it's easier to move quickly, so once again, there are similar aspects to ballet and ballroom.

Above all else, learning ANY dance style alternative to one's primary style only helps strengthen the primary dance style. In learning a new way to move your body, you start to understand how to use your muscles more and can start to connect things you've learned in the primary style. Not to mention that learning to dance to different music helps with the musicality. So I would say definitely take ballet.

[dancepro]

Of my experience most couple are having to change many of the concepts they have from classical ballet when starting to dance standard. I have student doing Martha Graham technique and that is very helpful. The understanding of the use of centers (contractions) are the same as in standard and latin. Many techniques like posture, center, balance and energy are the same in Martha Graham and ballroom. Classical ballet is not the best though. I do agree that many teachers are not teaching the basic drills that are taught in England. I do however have to defend the tea hers and coaches here. When I first moved to the US I taught mostly in drills as that was how I learned. After a while students asked to learn more "exciting" things. I stopped teaching drills in the US. I only teach drills in Europe and the Far East now, as they want drills. I am sure many teachers/coaches would love to teach drills, but if the student are not asking for it, then they don't get. There is a Chinese saying that I feel fits here "when the student is ready the teacher appears". If you want standard or latin drills ask for it!

[Chris Stratton]

When I first moved to the US I taught mostly in drills as that was how I learned. After a while students asked to learn more "exciting" things. I stopped teaching drills in the US. I only teach drills in Europe and the Far East now, as they want drills. I am sure many teachers/coaches would love to teach drills, but if the student are not asking for it, then they don't get. There is a Chinese saying that I feel fits here "when the student is ready the teacher appears". If you want standard or latin drills ask for it!

Understandable how this happens as a pragmatic response by the teacher, but when combined with pragmatic decisions by the students, something important ends up missing.

The issue is that you don't need ideal technique to win most ballroom competitions, and in the ones where perhaps you do need it, most couples are being held back by other things first. What you do usually need on a comp-to-comp basis is to dance the most of what you have. And that's fairly effective - the problem is that when it's what you and everyone you know is doing, the fact that this wonderful development of dancing is built on a less than state-of-the-art technical foundation tends to be forgotten. So it's left to visiting coaches to remind top ranked couples that something like how they habitually use their feet may be serviceable, but is not really optimal. You get leading guest teachers teaching top ranked couples things that really could have been set years earlier when they were actually competing basic figures. But they just don't become must-fix issues until a coach declares them such.

[Me]

I am considering taking a beginning ballet class to improve posture, allignment, flexibility, balance, and foot strength. The ballet dancers I know believe ballet will surely be beneficial; however, the ballroom dancers I talked to have suggested that they were able to benefit more from using their time to develop ballroom technique than they did from ballet. A few even told me that they found ballet to be detrimental (because of poise, turnout, etc.) to their ballroom dancing. Would ballet be a useful adjunct for a male Standard dancer or should I spend my time on ballroom technique, specifically?

Based on my personal struggle making the transition from ballerina to ballroom dancer, I would advise you to not take ballet lessons to simply improve your ballroom. Everything from my ballet training that was beneficial was a product of years of building muscle awareness. My past ballet training allowed me to bring experience as a dancer. Aside from developes and some arm styling, all other trappings of ballet required either heavy modification or were a hindrance and needed to be unlearned completely.

[dancepro]

You are right a competition is won on a comparison, not on being perfect. Perfection is what you work toward, but don't ever expect to get there. I have sometimes marked couples to win were I didn't like what they were doing but they were better then the other couples on the floor. As a judge you are asked to give your opinion, make a comparison of the couples that are in front of you and mark what you think are the best at that movement. My teacher always said it is not about being perfect, its about making a few people believe you are the best.

Drills just help the body becoming conditioned to the point that you don't have to consciously think about the basic techniques. Most of the drills that we were taught in England are taught at every level. Most of the students that I have taught (children to adult), that have gone to championship level, has done the drills and are still doing them. They now do them as a total unconscious competent act.

[BallandChange]

As a classically trained ballet dancer for 19 years, I must disagree with a lot of what has been said about ballet training being detrimental to standard dancing. Yes, there are some things that a ballet dancer has to "unlearn" for standard (ie not to turn out, not to pull the knees taught in rise), but overall, the basic concepts that you will learn from ballet are very valuable to standard dancing. I actually teach a ballet for ballroom dancers class that focuses on the aspects of ballet that help in both standard and latin.

Above all else, learning ANY dance style alternative to one's primary style only helps strengthen the primary dance style. In learning a new way to move your body, you start to understand how to use your muscles more and can start to connect things you've learned in the primary style. Not to mention that learning to dance to different music helps with the musicality. So I would say definitely take ballet.

I agree wholeheartedly with Rinachick's posting and I am sorry for I did not mean to indicate that learning Ballet would not be beneficial. What I was trying to convey is that at some point there are some different techniques, unique to the style of dancing, that may contradictory and the student needs to realize this so that they apply the right technique to the right style.

Rinachick's course on ballet for ballroom dancers is a good example of taking the techniques, similiar across both styles, that more matured and well defined in ballet and teaching it to ballroom dancers. I don't know if every Ballet course could provide this differentiation and in these instances it would be up to the student to figure it out.


Goin

[dancepro]

Based on my personal struggle making the transition from ballerina to ballroom dancer, I would advise you to not take ballet lessons to simply improve your ballroom. Everything from my ballet training that was beneficial was a product of years of building muscle awareness. My past ballet training allowed me to bring experience as a dancer. Aside from developes and some arm styling, all other trappings of ballet required either heavy modification or were a hindrance and needed to be unlearned completely.

That is what I have heard, seen and experienced from most students that I have taught. Classical ballet is not helpful

[vcolfari]

Thank you all for the great responses and suggestions! This gives me a lot to think about.

[dancepro]

Remember to listen to you gut feeling (intuition) and you will make the right choice for you. It is your dancing and all we have done is giving you our opinions, it is ultimately up to you. All the best in your dancing.

[jjs914]

Above all else, learning ANY dance style alternative to one's primary style only helps strengthen the primary dance style. In learning a new way to move your body, you start to understand how to use your muscles more and can start to connect things you've learned in the primary style. Not to mention that learning to dance to different music helps with the musicality. So I would say definitely take ballet.

I agree with this. I think for someone who does not have much dance experience, learning another style can help the person to have a better sense of the way their body works and moves. I think the problem is when you can't separate the two styles in your head/muscle memory.

[biggestbox]

I agree with this. I think for someone who does not have much dance experience, learning another style can help the person to have a better sense of the way their body works and moves. I think the problem is when you can't separate the two styles in your head/muscle memory.

i agree especially if you hit a plateau, you can sometimes break it by learning another dance form and relating the similarities AND differences.

[Joe]

19 years of ballet may (or may not) help you with your ballroom dancing. But I'm pretty sure that 19 years of ballroom will be much more beneficial to your ballroom.

[Laura]

Here's the thing, Joe...if you're someplace where you can't get enough ballroom training (due to distances and availability of teachers), then I'd think that cross-training with ballet could help.

[NoDayButToday]

I am considering taking a beginning ballet class to improve posture, allignment, flexibility, balance, and foot strength. The ballet dancers I know believe ballet will surely be beneficial; however, the ballroom dancers I talked to have suggested that they were able to benefit more from using their time to develop ballroom technique than they did from ballet. A few even told me that they found ballet to be detrimental (because of poise, turnout, etc.) to their ballroom dancing. Would ballet be a useful adjunct for a male Standard dancer or should I spend my time on ballroom technique, specifically?

Oh, absolutely. Ballet will give you great fundamentals of all dance forms, not just standard. Definately take the classes... You'll improve on everything you listed above! :)

[SDsalsaguy]

Here's the thing, Joe...if you're someplace where you can't get enough ballroom training (due to distances and availability of teachers), then I'd think that cross-training with ballet could help.
This is a great point Laura. Depending what may be available locally, chances are often much better to find a group ballet (vs. ballroom) class that communicates real fundamentals of technique which can be applied to developing one's dancing.

[chachachacat]

...and your legs will look great, too!

[Larinda McRaven]

I don't see it as fundamentals or technique of anything that you will gain, but rather body, muscle and self-awareness. I took TaeKwon Do for years. And it definitely was great cross training, although the fundamentals and technique are no where in the same ballpark.

I suppose I could just barely liken the TKD stance to a Tango stance, but that is really where the simalarity ends. Other than that I got great strength training, aerobic training, partnering, spatial awareness, speed, muscle awareness, fexibilty...

[Joe]

Here's the thing, Joe...if you're someplace where you can't get enough ballroom training (due to distances and availability of teachers), then I'd think that cross-training with ballet could help.
Perhaps, but one shouldn't be deluded into thinking that because cross-training in ballet one has made one an excellent ballet dancer, that one will simultaneously become an excellent ballroom dancer.

[Laura]

Perhaps, but one shouldn't be deluded into thinking that because cross-training in ballet one has made one an excellent ballet dancer, that one will simultaneously become an excellent ballroom dancer.
Of course, but I think you are doing the original poster a huge disservice if you're suggesting that he/she is deluding theirself that way.

[NoDayButToday]

I'm all for the ballet classes, but it is true that excellent ballet dancers may not make excellent ballroom dancers. When one of our best ballet dancers danced other styles she still looked like a ballet dancer because she's not versitile. The key in using ballet training is to incorporate the discipline and technique you received from your classes into other styles of dances. Like in cha cha, you're not going to use soft fingers and arms like you would in ballet... But you can certainly use the balance, flexibility, turnout, and attention to detail that you have from ballet. Does this make sense at all? So basically, yes it helps you. But concentrate more in your standard lessons and use the skills you'll receive from your ballet classes and you should be just fabulous!

[Joe]

Yes.

[biggestbox]

I think in ballet men's class is better for ballroom than mixed classes or women's classes. i personally like men's class much much better than mixed classes. the bar is slower to build strength, guys stay in balances for long periods of time. in the center, we get to turn jump and move alot more. There is much less "footy" steps. if you want ballet to improve ballroom, I'd suggest taking men's classes. they are more physical, and teaches you to really attack the steps.

[Laura]

Are there actually adult beginner classes that are divided up by gender?

[Casayoto]

Depending where you are, sure. Although I can't recall seeing a women's only ballet class, I've definitely seen men's only classes at a couple of the studios in the area.

[vcolfari]

Revisiting the thread I started years ago, I wanted to share my experiences. I took a few ballet classes intermittently over the years and found myself overwhelmed by the ballet-specific terminology and unfamiliar technique. I enjoyed the classes but felt that time in ballet class would merely be a fun way to develop an understanding of a different dance form rather than a targeted way of improving my ballroom technique through cross training.

Since my Standard partner moved away, I have continued working on my ballroom technique in solo practice, with the goal of improving body awareness, balance, foot strength--particularly over one foot, posture, and poise. I continue to take Standard lessons but my coach is a few hours away, so it's not practical for me to take regular lessons. I go when I can, focus on technique rather than patterns and routines, and practice diligently in between lessons.

I decided that now was an excellent time to revisit ballet. I contacted an outstanding local instructor and, given my unique goals, she agreed to give me private lessons. I have to stay, I blew it by not doing this long ago. Private instruction is the way to go. For my first lesson, I brought in some videos of top ballroom dancers to show her. Having no ballroom background, she watched carefully and then asked me to dance some figures. She quickly commented on the position of my pelvis compared to that of top dancers and we began working on exercises to open the hips and align the body to generate more power. I was concerned with turnout contributing to bad ballroom habits but, if anything, the opening of the hips experienced through plie and releve has been fantastic for ballroom. I could go on about the other things I've learned and experienced but I just wanted to provide a couple of examples for now in case anyone's interested. For anyone contemplating ballet as an adjunct to ballroom, I highly recommend privates.

[Benjy]

Revisiting the thread I started years ago, I wanted to share my experiences. I took a few ballet classes intermittently over the years and found myself overwhelmed by the ballet-specific terminology and unfamiliar technique. I enjoyed the classes but felt that time in ballet class would merely be a fun way to develop an understanding of a different dance form rather than a targeted way of improving my ballroom technique through cross training.

Since my Standard partner moved away, I have continued working on my ballroom technique in solo practice, with the goal of improving body awareness, balance, foot strength--particularly over one foot, posture, and poise. I continue to take Standard lessons but my coach is a few hours away, so it's not practical for me to take regular lessons. I go when I can, focus on technique rather than patterns and routines, and practice diligently in between lessons.

I decided that now was an excellent time to revisit ballet. I contacted an outstanding local instructor and, given my unique goals, she agreed to give me private lessons. I have to stay, I blew it by not doing this long ago. Private instruction is the way to go. For my first lesson, I brought in some videos of top ballroom dancers to show her. Having no ballroom background, she watched carefully and then asked me to dance some figures. She quickly commented on the position of my pelvis compared to that of top dancers and we began working on exercises to open the hips and align the body to generate more power. I was concerned with turnout contributing to bad ballroom habits but, if anything, the opening of the hips experienced through plie and releve has been fantastic for ballroom. I could go on about the other things I've learned and experienced but I just wanted to provide a couple of examples for now in case anyone's interested. For anyone contemplating ballet as an adjunct to ballroom, I highly recommend privates.


Or the investment of not -so-much time to actually enjoy ballet as it's own art form AND improve your ballroom dancing. If you're taking beginner classes the vocabulary is not such an insurmountable task. And ballet class is specifically designed to build your body as a machine, not just to impart knowledge. You miss out on a great deal of performance experience, self-discipline, and physical conditioning by not taking class.

[Legacy]

I had several years on-and-off ballet training when I was young, and I can tell you that it definitely helped with both latin & ballroom dancing, not necessarily technique, but the posture, strength and and turnout (for Latin). I just needed to reprogram my body a little bit to accommodate different techniques of Latin/Ballroom. But without ballet background, my latin/ballroom training would have been much slower.

[vcolfari]

Or the investment of not -so-much time to actually enjoy ballet as it's own art form AND improve your ballroom dancing. If you're taking beginner classes the vocabulary is not such an insurmountable task. And ballet class is specifically designed to build your body as a machine, not just to impart knowledge. You miss out on a great deal of performance experience, self-discipline, and physical conditioning by not taking class.

I see the value in taking classes and I may do that, too, but I thought it was important to share an alternative perspective with people who are concerned that ballet and ballroom are from two different planets.

[debmc]

I don't have a ballet background, but I do notice that the ballroom dancers who do seem to have a built in advantage. Yes, there are things that they have to "unlearn" as they switch to ballroom, but they already know body mechanics, body awareness, balance, timing, posture, grace, performance, flexibility, strength, discipline, etc, etc. That being said, at this point, not having a ballet background, I think my time would be better spent on focusing on ballroom, rather than adding yet another dance discipline to the list. I can see though how finding a private ballet instructor that just focuses on "ballet for ballroom" would be the best of both worlds.

I have also noticed that most of the professional ballroom/latin dancers have a dance background in ballet, usually as children. Of course there are some amazing exceptions, but I notice it enough to think it must help to have that as a foundation.

[Benjy]

I have also noticed that most of the professional ballroom/latin dancers have a dance background in ballet, usually as children. Of course there are some amazing exceptions, but I notice it enough to think it must help to have that as a foundation.

In my experience this is not true. Most of my coaches have had, at best, a nominal ballet vocabulary, as often as not attained after they began dancing ballroom/latin. Of course there are many many exceptions. I just don't think "most" is the right word...

[dancerdol]

I have worked with a few top smooth female coaches and they have all had ballet and/or jazz or modern training. Dance training, whether as a child or as an adult, can help with poise, flexibility, balance, and arm styling. I've personally found pilates, gyrotonics, yoga and thera-bands help create the strength and flexibility I need for ballroom dance.