Ballroom Dance in Non-Western Cultures

[pygmalion]

I just found this link about ballrom dancing in India, and it raises some questions for me. The Indian ballroom teacher who hosts this web site states that ballroom dance is, in India, viewed as a manifestation of Western culture. I know from experience that my West African friends view ballroom dance as something that white Europeans do. Yet African countries, such as South Africa, have a very respectable showing in the International ballroom community. And I'm fairly sure that Korea, at least, is another Asian country with a high level of ballrom involvement. So what's going on here?

Is ballroom truly a creation of western cultures? Why? Is it evolving to represent more of a world culture? What do you think?


http://www.ballroomzone.com/

[pygmalion]

Ha! Ask and you shall receive. Here's a new article published in an Indian newspaper today regarding the spread of ballroom and Latin dance there.

Here's an excerpt

One two cha cha cha

By Smitha Parigi in Mumbai


Grooving to salsa and merengue is a common sight on the dance floors these days. Latin American and ballroom dance classes are the latest lifestyle trend.

Sandip Soparrkar, who runs a ballroom dance studio, has been training students in this dance form for more than two years. He even has letters from the Queen of England and the Prince of Wales who have thanked him for encouraging this tradition in India.

According to Soparrkar ballroom dance is here to stay. “Disco, breakdance, bhangra and dandiya have come and gone, but classical forms like Kathak and Bharat Natyam will always be around. The same applies to ballroom dance because it is a classical art form,” he says.

While these dance forms are still at a nascent stage, their popularity is fast growing, “When I started my studio, I had 12 students. Today I have trained 1,500 students,” says Soparrkar.

While Latin American or ballroom dances may be only for the niche audience, a sure way of getting attention is through Bollywood, feels Soparrkar. But ballroom dancing in Hindi movies is used only for a period flick, like Zubeida and the under-production The Rising.

Apparently Ketan Mehta, director of The Rising, wanted to recreate the music of the 18th century, so Soparrkar with the help of the ISTD institute in Germany, where he trained, retrieved the music and dance of that era. “A R Rahman retouched it and contemporarised it for the film and I choreographed the ballroom dance.”

But the most interesting instance of the use of Latin American dance in Hindi cinema has been the recent film, Tum by Aruna Raje. Another forthcoming film that will be using the Latin American dance rather generously will be Kyon Ho Gaya Na? with Vivek Oberoi and Aishwarya Rai.

Soparrkar, who will be choreographing this project, is excited about this film, “The dance movements will be along the lines of Dance With Me” Soparrkar predicts that Latin American dance will be big. “With Enrique Iglesias coming to India this year, I am sure that Latin American dancing will last till the end of this year.” But right now Indians have been winning on international dance floors.

At the Fred Astaire dance festival held in South Africa last year, two of Soparrkar’s students won the first place at Samba and Cha Cha Cha category. Further, the US-based DanceSport is negotiating to make dance a part of the Olympics 2010. “I am hoping to send my students to that competition,” says Soparrkar with confidence. Arriba indeed…

For more, go to http://sify.com/cities/mumbai/fullstory.php?id=13440162

It takes a while to load. :?

[jon]

Is ballroom truly a creation of western cultures?

My impression is that lead-follow dancing was created in Europe. Anyone know of independently developed lead-follow dance forms?

[Spitfire]

Well, all those common social dances we know and discuss here did originate in the western world. Now, as far as something like Mambo or Samba is concerned I believe the music itself has African roots. Perhaps the dances do as well?

[jon]

Well, all those common social dances we know and discuss here did originate in the western world. Now, as far as something like Mambo or Samba is concerned I believe the music itself has African roots. Perhaps the dances do as well?

There's clearly a movement heritage from African dance to Latin & Tap/Jazz. I'm wondering specifically about the partnering / lead&follow structure of a dance.

[Genesius Redux]

Is ballroom truly a creation of western cultures? Why? Is it evolving to represent more of a world culture? What do you think?

Dance is dance, just as music is music, in my opinion. Dance historians can talk about its history, but its history is irrelevant in the face of really compelling lived performances.

That said, I see know reason at all why any dance forms should evolve in any way other than organically. As dancers bring their perspectives and experiences to the floor, the dance changes, by degrees, to reflect a living tradition that need not be politicized or culturally labelled. Waltz will still be Waltz, though it may evolve in directions as yet unforeseen.

It seems to me that one of the least salutary trends in Western culture in the last 50 years or so has been an angst-ridden paranoia about imposing one's own cultural forms on the rest of the world. In the immediate aftermath of imperial-colonial practice (I speak as though this was in the past, though America seems to be embarked on its own colonial phase at the moment), it's easy to understand why this happens. But you don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The Waltz happens to be a truly fabulous dance, and there is little need for hand-wringing over its inclusivity or exclusivity.

Ballroom dancing is not like having a McDonald's on every street corner (as it happens you will nonetheless find in places like Shanghai). I was lucky enough to see some marvellous ballroom dancers in Japan and China--free will, when not constrained by arbitrary protectionist politics, is a fact of life, and people from other cultures are more than capable of selecting and choosing those cultural forms that they will adopt, just as my tae kwon do teacher, a grand master and native Korean, is more than happy to teach his classes 15 minutes down the road according to the time-honored traditions of Korea as he sees them, while attending Christian services on Sunday mornings, and sending his children to private American schools.

I don't think it's possible to really appreciate other cultural traditions unless we are very comfortable with our own.

But it's difficult to think of preserving a cultural tradition outside of its living reality--a dance like Waltz or Foxtrot is an outgrowth of a highly privileged culture which is being eroded by the levelling wind of democracy. So in that instance, it's hard to say where such a dance would survive outside of the world of competition. The elite form continues to be exclusive not so much socially and economically (though ballroom dance is still not within everyone's means) as by talent and ability. The dance can survive only as practiced by the relatively few who are accomplished in it. And its survival in the work of a few dedicated professionals can potentially lead to its own extinction (I'm glad Temptress Too mentioned the Romanovs).

The vitality of ballroom dance will be determined not, per se, by its appeal in a world market, but in a free market--of which the world market is only the latest manifestation. That is to say, we should be asking not, how can ballroom dance evolve from its "European origins" (and I'm by no means comfortable with the term "European") to have a wider "world appeal" but how can an elite tradition evolve so as to remain vital within a pop culture market?

My answer--by remaining both open to innovation (often in the form of being open to non-traditional ballroom dances, especially right now those Latin dances) and at the same time respectful of its own forms. There are many traditional dances in Japan and India--the reason that people from Japan and India sometimes do ballroom dance is that they like it. Just like I will sometimes forego McDonald's to eat at the Tai Orchid.

Okay, I didn't mean to spend that much time writing and thinking. I need a drink!

[Sagitta]

I'm not sure what is meant by the lead-follow question Jon. I see a lot of this which was developed within traditional dancing itself...Indian and others. Indian comes to mind as I am vacationing here right now! :)

[jon]

I'm not sure what is meant by the lead-follow question Jon.

Simple enough. Are there non-Western dance forms in which there are two partners who have respectively lead and follow roles as we understand those roles in e.g. ballroom or swing or salsa or tango dancing - or not?

[Sagitta]

I'm not sure what is meant by the lead-follow question Jon.

Simple enough. Are there non-Western dance forms in which there are two partners who have respectively lead and follow roles as we understand those roles in e.g. ballroom or swing or salsa or tango dancing - or not?

Okay. I haven't seen any such dancing when I was in Tanzania for 18/19 years and also in Goa, India, where I am now.

[pygmalion]

And I haven't seen any in West African dance. Those dances are more symbolic of gender roles, social ceremonies or religious rituals. Most of the dances I've seen have been handed down for centuries, and everyone knows their role and performs it. Lead/follow isn't necessary and it doesn't fit. For that matter, I haven't seen much partner dancing as we know it. Men and women dancing their own parts, yes. But partner dancing? No.

[Genesius Redux]

And I haven't seen any in West African dance. Those dances are more symbolic of gender roles, social ceremonies or religious rituals. Most of the dances I've seen have been handed down for centuries, and everyone knows their role and performs it. Lead/follow isn't necessary and it doesn't fit. For that matter, I haven't seen much partner dancing as we know it. Men and women dancing their own parts, yes. But partner dancing? No.

But rhythmically (or so the argument goes), African traditions are deeply embedded in almost all varieties of swing. "European"-style partnering meets "African" rhythm; the dance is, at its root and by nature, a "world" dance, no?

[pygmalion]

Hmm. That's an interesting way of looking at it. Let me give that some thought.

If one were to extend your argument a bit, many, many dances are Afro-European world dances, in the sense that they pair African rhythms with Eurpean concepts of lead/follow. Hmm.


I have much more to say, of course, but I'm trying to think of intelligent and inoffensive ways to speak my mind. Will check in later. :wink:

[Genesius Redux]

Love your new avatar, BTW, Pygmalion!

[pygmalion]

Oh thanks! Just call me Rosie. :wink:

[pygmalion]

Okay. Here's what I'm thinking. Genesius, your observation is very astute. Cultures influence each other, in dance, and in other disciplines.

So while European dance may have spread to non-Western societies, in hasn't done so in a vacuum. As dances of European origin spread, they evolve in ways specific to the recipient cultures. An example is New Vogue dance in Australia. Other interesting examples are in my orphan Dancing in the Phillipines (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2640) thread.

My other observation is artistic as well as political. Imperialization is never complete. Take, for example, the spread of non-indigenous religions to Africa. True, the vast majority of Africans today self-identify as Christians or Muslims. Yet, underlying these imported belief systems, the vast majority still hold traditional, animist beliefs.

I think the same is true with cultural imperialism. You can superimpose Western dances on cultures around the world, if you wish. Yet, underneath will lie a base of traditional dance.

It's quite an opportunity for the evolution of new, hybrid art forms, if you ask me. :wink:

Just my two (okay three LOL) cents. :lol:

[Genesius Redux]

I find myself in substantial agreement with everything you're saying, Pygmalion.

But also, with all that you allude to in the Christian penetration of Africa, I'm getting this image of evangelizing ballroom dancers visiting Ibo villages of the early 20th century, going, "Can ya give me a twinkle? Let me see a twinkle, let me hear an amen!"

Or, amid the roar of Victoria falls, a slender gentleman clad in tails and a white tie steps forward to meet the party that has hacked its way through dense jungle to find him. The lead member of the party greets him: "Mr. Astaire, I presume...."

Or Chinua Achebe's last novel, "When Promenades Fall Apart."

Okay, getting punchy now, better go! :wink:

[pygmalion]

Crazy man! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Mich]

Is ballroom an outgrowth of European culture? Yes.

Some global form of ballroom dancing? Maybe in a dozen years.

My two cents on a very interesting topic:

The western world had the benefit, and disadvantages, of the Enlightment and Renaissance. Government became more secular. There was alot of individual liberty and the couple/nuclear family rec'd alot of respect.

Partner dancing was eventually accepted.

But in non-Western societies, there were and still are rules and negative feelings against public touching of men and women. the group, clan, and extended family have greater importance. But these societies have wonderful dancing, often in separatge sex groups. There might be a leader but no couples.

In some of these countries, ballroom has been accessible to the elite. But large sections of the population won't be seeking out partner dancing, even if they love to watch it.

I wouldn't expect traditional Indian or Thai dancing to be picking up moves from rumba or waltz. And I think it would be tough for some ballroom dances to incorporate the rhythms of Eastern dances although we are hearing more instrumentation and musical influence from different parts of the world.

Ballroom might incorporate hand gestures and some arm styling from Bharat Natiyam, traditional Indian dance. But hitting the floorboards hard in your bare feet -- I don't see Smooth and Latin dances infused with those kinds of moves.

here in Israel, the interest in Salsa was originally with Rueda because of the tradition of group dancing. The popularity of salsa has grown slowly. Young people are happier doing trance.

Whether you live in the London, Houston, New Delhi or Shanghai--I think the dividing line is partner dancing, partner touching.

But vive le diference.

[pygmalion]

Cool perspective, Mich. I have to ponder a bit. 8) :D

[Genesius Redux]

I wouldn't expect traditional Indian or Thai dancing to be picking up moves from rumba or waltz. And I think it would be tough for some ballroom dances to incorporate the rhythms of Eastern dances although we are hearing more instrumentation and musical influence from different parts of the world.

That's kind of what I had been getting at--but part of the problem is the labelling anyway. You mention rumba, for instance, which most dance historians say is Afro-Cuban in origin. Isn't that already a "world" dance?

Obviously there are some cross-overs that will never happen, simply because the traditions are so different. But on the other hand, there's no need to be anxious over the western bias of ballroom dance, because the hybridization happens naturally.

Evolution will find a way. Life will find a way.

Cheers,

Genesius