How would you handle this?

[Beetlebug]

I'm having a bit of a problem with one of the men at my studio. He's an older man that has been making me uncomfortable and I'm not sure how to approach this. I can handle some harmless flirting, but this is a little different...it feels almost stalkerish.

At a practice party last week he asked if I was competing in the comp that weekend. He said he was going to come watch me. No big deal. Then he said he was going to get my schedule and watch me all day and he hoped that didn't make me nervous. He kept saying things like that...that he was going to find out when I would be dancing and he would be watching me the entire day. He kept asking me to dance over and over and over at the party, and I felt rude telling him no. When we were dancing he would purposefully pull my body close to his and press against me, although we had just had a group class where the instructor stressed that the men were not to do this...that the woman was the one who would determine how close she wanted to dance with you.

He came to the competition that weekend and talked to me several times. He said, "I saw you over there looking at the dresses....I mean, not that I have been watching you the whole time or anything, but I saw you over there." When the photos from the smooth dances were ready on a table across the room, he came over and told me mine were ready. He said, "I looked at all your photos and they are all beautiful...I left you a few to choose from, but I bought a bunch of them. You just look so good in them, etc, etc. " I think he was joking...I hope so anyway because I would be pissed if he bought my photos before I had a chance to look at them.

He kept doing things like this all day...it makes me uncomfortable, but I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. I know when someone is simply flirting with me, but my gut instinct is that something is creepy here.

Do I just ignore him and take it as a compliment, or if he's making me uncomfortable in the studio do I talk to the owner about it? I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I know what my feeling is on this...I feel like he going a little too far with it. There are more things he has said to me, like about seeing me in my comp rhythm dresses in the studio when I was doing a rehearsal, etc. but none of it sounds really bad by itself. It's really just the fact that it's been so much in only a few days.

Maybe I just needed to vent about this, so thank you for listening. However, any advice anyone has would be appreciated.

[Izzy20]

Hmm... first of all I don't feel you're being overdramatic. I used to work at a professional theater group and we had to know how to handle some "fans" that would get a little too close. What we were told was to treat them like everybody else. Don't get too close but don't automatically run away when you see them because it might make it worse. Say hi then go on to your other friends at the studio. You don't have to dance with him if he creeps you out. If he starts getting really creepy then yes tell someone. Honestly, better safe then sorry.


A little story about something that happened to me in theater: There was a guy who had a crush on me and I knew it. I was very open with him that we were friends only. Well, he started really being persistant about it and I just started really avoiding him on purpose. One night when I went out to my car he was there. He quized me on why i had avoided him and scared me quite badly. I then told my director and she didn't end up doing anything but at least she knew about it. I also started walking out with a guy friend of mine.

My theory better safe then sorry.

[dbk]

I' He kept asking me to dance over and over and over at the party, and I felt rude telling him no. When we were dancing he would purposefully pull my body close to his and press against me,

This is where rules for being "polite" at social dances end. NO ONE is going to say you're being rude if you decline dances with someone who makes you uncomfortable. Don't feel obligated - he is acting inappropriately, and HE is in the wrong. Go ahead and avoid dancing with him...

I would politely say, "no, thank you" whenever he asked me, EVERY time he asked me, until he got the hint. He probably KNOWS what he's doing is inappropriate, and he's not going to stop taking advantage of your politeness until you make him. On the off chance he doesn't know (I doubt it), it will make him think about what he's doing to drive you (and probably other girls) away.


Do I just ignore him and take it as a compliment, or if he's making me uncomfortable in the studio do I talk to the owner about it?

YES. Tell your studio owner.

This is really inappropriate. You shouldn't have to worry about this kind of behavior in a dance studio; the owner should deal with it, or at the very least help you deal with it.

[Warren J. Dew]

If it makes you feel uncomfortable, don't be afraid to talk to the owner, or at least to your instructor. You might also consider not accepting any more dances from him.

[BM]

Tell him to knock it off. You are by no means obligated to suffer his advances, regardless of how "innocent" they may seem out of context. Unfortunately, I think many women have been socialised to be "polite" instead of safe, and are therefore hesitant to say "no," even when they feel uncomfortable, or worse, threatened.

I'm terrible at confrontations, so I know that this is easier said than done, but I suggest that you firmly tell him that you do not appreciate his persistent attentions. If he did buy your photos before you could see them, and you couldn't buy duplicates, I'd say to chew him out for that, too.

If bringing it up yourself is too tough, just do what I do: say something REALLY snarky and dismissive EVERY time he so much as addresses you. ;)

Hope things remedy themselves soon! It's really frustrating when our pleasures are tainted with frustrations like this one.

[fascination]

you aren't even close to being over dramatic...he is over the line and you need to make the owner awre even if it is just for them to keep an eye out for their own protection b/c frankly he could end up devoting the same sorts of interests with others and it would be good if they had as much to go on as possible if they have to talk with him...lots of dudes like this count on young women to be submissive...I would definately send him some discreet chill vibes and would also, the next time he takes you in that closely to dance push back very hard on his chest and inform him that I save that sort of contact for men with whom I have an entirely different sort of relationship

[dancerman]

I'm having a bit of a problem with one of the men at my studio. He's an older man that has been making me uncomfortable and I'm not sure how to approach this. I can handle some harmless flirting, but this is a little different...it feels almost stalkerish.

At a practice party last week he asked if I was competing in the comp that weekend. He said he was going to come watch me. No big deal. Then he said he was going to get my schedule and watch me all day and he hoped that didn't make me nervous. He kept saying things like that...that he was going to find out when I would be dancing and he would be watching me the entire day. He kept asking me to dance over and over and over at the party, and I felt rude telling him no. When we were dancing he would purposefully pull my body close to his and press against me, although we had just had a group class where the instructor stressed that the men were not to do this...that the woman was the one who would determine how close she wanted to dance with you.

He came to the competition that weekend and talked to me several times. He said, "I saw you over there looking at the dresses....I mean, not that I have been watching you the whole time or anything, but I saw you over there." When the photos from the smooth dances were ready on a table across the room, he came over and told me mine were ready. He said, "I looked at all your photos and they are all beautiful...I left you a few to choose from, but I bought a bunch of them. You just look so good in them, etc, etc. " I think he was joking...I hope so anyway because I would be pissed if he bought my photos before I had a chance to look at them.

He kept doing things like this all day...it makes me uncomfortable, but I don't know if I'm overreacting or not. I know when someone is simply flirting with me, but my gut instinct is that something is creepy here.

Do I just ignore him and take it as a compliment, or if he's making me uncomfortable in the studio do I talk to the owner about it? I don't want to sound melodramatic, but I know what my feeling is on this...I feel like he going a little too far with it. There are more things he has said to me, like about seeing me in my comp rhythm dresses in the studio when I was doing a rehearsal, etc. but none of it sounds really bad by itself. It's really just the fact that it's been so much in only a few days.

Maybe I just needed to vent about this, so thank you for listening. However, any advice anyone has would be appreciated.

As a male who dances a lot socially, I would say you are definitely not overreacting or being melodramatic. I see the dance venue as being a "Safe" environment to be in, male or female. You should not have to feel uncomfortable or threatened in any way!!
Your studio owner and/or intructor needs to be made aware of the situation and may be able to help resolve it. If you are comfortable speaking openly with this person okay, but it sounds like it may be beyond that.
It is very easy to become attracted to someone we dance with, but we also need to know where to draw the line.
Don't compromise yourself because of someone else's improprieties.

[soshedances]

Go with your gut. You have a right to feel comfortable and safe, otherwise the dancing becomes far less enjoyable, which really isn't fair to you. I'd let someone else know, (whether it is your instructor, studio owner or both) about his attention and how uncomfortable he makes you feel. Also, politely but firmly make sure to let him know that you don't appreciate his attentions.

[quixotedlm]

Ditto what others wrote. You are in the clear and he is pushing the limits of propriety.

I'm reading your post somewhat literally as to the sequence of events. It seems to me that he has always given you notice as to what his next action is going to be, and then perhaps taken the liberty of going one step beyond that.

For eg - He made conversation - a lot. He observed that you continued being polite, and indulged him. He asked you to dance often - and you indulged him. He pulled you closer - did you pull away (it's not clear from your post), or did you allow that out of politeness?

He told you that he was going to watch almost all of your dances - and you didn't express discomfort (and perhaps, through silence, offered him permission).

He apparently bought pictures of you without your permission - and apparently, your pictures were on sale to strangers. He did tell you that he bought those - it was not a secret act.

What I see is an overzealous man with a crush - and perhaps gross ignorance of the basics of courtship. I don't see a creep or a stalker. IMO, he is not a creep, because he has shown no indication whatsoever that he will refuse to back-off after receiving a request from you to do so (perhaps because no such request was made). And he is not a stalker because he has not done anything in secret, neither has he acted against your express wish.

Despite this reasoning, I find his behaviour somewhat disturbing. Perhaps it is time to let him know that any interaction at all with you is unwelcome. If he doesn't back off, then go to the authorities (manager, cops etc).

[nucat78]

+1. This guy is out of line and the picture stuff sounds borderline stalkerish to me. However, it may be that he has very poor social skills. Not that that's an excuse for his behavior.

[dancepro]

You sound like you are not being over dramatic. If you are not feeling safe you should tell the studio owner and your instructor. I am sure they would want to know if a student is not feeling safe in the studio environment. Most studio owners would know how to handle this situation discreetly. It does sound like he is a little to in your face for comfort. Hang out with others in the studio that you feel comfortable being with. If you feel brave enough, tell him that you are not comfortable with he behavior towards you. You can have the studio owner be there with you when you tell him. Listen to you gut feeling (intuition) and respond to what the intuiting tell you. Do not react...respond.

All the best.... remember you are special and nobody should treat you in a way you don't want to be treated... speak up..

[danceronice]

While I sort of agree with quixotedlm in that, if he's a stalker, he's one who gives a weird amount of warning, I disagree that it's not creepy. I would be extremely creeped out and would already have told the owners where I dance--it helps they're my teaching pros, so I would feel very comfortable going to them with a problem like that, but even if they weren't after the photo part of your story I would be feeling sufficiently weirded out to talk to them regardless. There's social ineptitude, and there's flat-out weirdness. Buying your pictures is weird.

[samina]

Ditto fasc's advice. Poor guy's smitten and out of control -- time to set some boundaries. It's as simple as, "Dude, this really makes me uncomfortable. Ya gotta stop..."

And mean it. Good lesson for the chica when this comes up. It happens, and certainly is in no way a dance thing.

[Ron deChasse]

As an "older man" myself, I would have to say that this guy is way out of line. Anything more than a fleeting comment about a womans dress is creepy, but the picture thing is too much and the close contact is entirely unacceptable. Your studio owner NEEDS to know about this and you NEED someone else to know about it.

[latingal]

In addition to the good advice you are getting here, I sometimes - in this type of situation - will ask girl or guy friends at the studio to help run interference for me.

[samina]

Yep. Ancient tradition that still gets a lotta mileage. :)

[DanceMentor]

As dancepro mentioned, I think it makes sense to confide in some people that you trust, and let them know about what is happening. If possible it might be good to try to avoid him if there is some way you can arrange to go to a different studio for a short time or similar (that may not be possible). Potentially, an authority figure might be able to steer him in another direction, and let him know that his behavior is not okay. If I knew you, I would gladly listen, and want to know more. I hope you will let us know how things are progressing.

[dancerman]

In addition to the good advice you are getting here, I sometimes - in this type of situation - will ask girl or guy friends at the studio to help run interference for me.

I don't know. Involving other people (other than the owners of the studio) isn't always a good idea. You are putting other people in the middle of a very delicate situation, in which someone can very easily do or say the wrong thing. Thngs can get very out of hand easily.

[dancerman]

As dancepro mentioned, I think it makes sense to confide in some people that you trust, and let them know about what is happening. If possible it might be good to try to avoid him if there is some way you can arrange to go to a different studio for a short time or similar (that may not be possible). Potentially, an authority figure might be able to steer him in another direction, and let him know that his behavior is not okay. If I knew you, I would gladly listen, and want to know more. I hope you will let us know how things are progressing.

I don't think a person who is being made to feel uncomfortable should ever have to run or hide or go to a different studio because someone else is harrassing them or making them feel scared. The inappropriate person is allowed to continue on his way and who becomes the injured party?

[Peaches]

I don't know. Involving other people (other than the owners of the studio) isn't always a good idea. You are putting other people in the middle of a very delicate situation, in which someone can very easily do or say the wrong thing. Thngs can get very out of hand easily.I don't think of it so much as putting them in the middle, but it can be something as simple as having someone on hand who's willing to get up and dance at a moment's notice when the guy is coming her way, or who's willing to be "very involved in an intense and private conversation" when the guy wants to chat. Not to put them so much in the middle, but to have a ready-made excuse to not engage.

[fascination]

agree...also very very neccessary to learn to cultivate some significant backbone right now

[davedove]

While I agree that his behavior is excessive, it also seems like you haven't told him to back off. You're probably just trying to be polite, but I'll tell you right now, guys in general don't get subtle. You have to tell him outright.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to tell others about his behavior as well.

[fascination]

agree...in addition to the fact that if you are young you might as well learn the skill now or you will be evading and panicking for the rest of your life...BTDT...refuse to buy the shirt

[samina]

Yep. It helps to not equate the situation with hurt feelings & messiness, otherwise you'll be too polite, or also many women get in the habit of lying, which is such an unnecessary, unproductive way of dealing with it. Same with hiding...have enuf respect in self & other and just deal is the best way, I think.

[jjs914]

I agree with what everyone here has been saying. This is a very creepy situation and IMO the two things that definitely need to happen are 1) tell someone else whether it's a trusted friend, instructor, or studio owner and 2) tell the person himself that his behavior is inappropriate/makes you uncomfortable. Being polite will get you nowhere. Best case scenario: he'll back off once you confront him. I've been in a similar situation (involving facebook, not in person) and the guy backed off once I confronted him. And be strong! No wishy-washy politeness!

[Beetlebug]

Thank you all for your responses and advice. You are correct in the fact that I haven't told him to back off yet...I've had to deal with this kind of thing before and I admit that I'm not very good at it. I usually try to avoid them and kind of brush them off at first and if they continue with the behavior, I start being more direct or have someone else help me with the situation.

When he pulled me in close to dance, I took a few steps backward. The dance floor was crowded and there wasn't much room to move, but I did move away from him. However, everytime he would spin me, as I was coming out of the turn, he would pull me close again. This only went on for about a minute and a half, but everytime he would do it I would pull back.

At the comp, almost everytime I looked up he was staring at me. Whenever I would walk by him to go to the dressing room, bathroom, etc. he would say "Hey! Hey! Blah blah blah"....it's like he wouldn't leave me alone for a second. I did mention it to a few people and they just kind of laughed about it, like it was no big deal. People at the studio have said, "oh he's always like that...he's harmless". My concern is that I have had very similar situations like this in the past and they always escalate with this type of person. I recognize the pattern. With two other men I had to go to the police about it because the men were scaring me. It started out as the same type of behavior this guy is showing.

I agree that my first step is to let him know that his behavior isn't acceptable and he is making me uncomfortable....it's just hard for me to do because I guarantee that he thinks he's being flattering. He thinks I enjoy the attention (granted I haven't told him otherwise), and I can see the weird look on his face when I tell him to back off.

I think I'll talk to my pro about it this week and see if he can help. I'm upset about it because it's tainting my enjoyment of dancing and being at my studio because I have to deal with this guy. I guess it's time to grow a pair...

Again, thank you all....I just needed some encouragement to stand up for myself.

[Beetlebug]

The only thing about telling other people is that, in my experience, guys don't understand how a girl can feel threatened by a man acting like this. They tend to just think it's funny and harmless. When they laugh it off when I tell them about it, it makes me feel stupid and overly dramatic. So, I tend to keep quiet about it until it gets really bad.

[HF]

Then he said he was going to get my schedule and watch me all day and he hoped that didn't make me nervous.

So why on earth didn't you say that this would be a little strange.

I think most of the problem are on his side but it seems as if he at least asked before acting. By indicating that this was fine with you you practically invited him to hope for a chance and try the next step.

[Beetlebug]

So why on earth didn't you say that this would be a little strange.

I think most of the problem are on his side but it seems as if he at least asked before acting. By indicating that this was fine with you you practically invited him to hope for a chance and try the next step.

I did say, "uh, yeah, that would be a little weird if you tried to get my schedule!" However, this was at the beginning of him acting like this and I thought he was just joking around. Then came the dancing too close, the watching me all day at the comp, the photo thing. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt when he first started acting weird...it was only after all the other things that I started getting creeped out.

[Me]

Beetlebug,

These traps are always so easy to fall into. I too have had these sorts of problems and, yes, the police have gotten involved.

Your problem (and mine) is we're simply too nice. We are nice and this is part of the game. I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, that being "too nice" is a bad thing. These sorts of men gravitate toward the "nice" ladies for any number of reasons - Perhaps we seem less threatening, more approachable - Perhaps they take our polite conversation to mean something more, as other women who pick up on the creepy vibes tend to not talk to them - Perhaps (a more dark approach) our nice attitudes make us seem weaker, more easily taken advantage of. These men can be harmless or hurtful. Unfortunately some of these types put up a good appearance of being harmless before revealing the hurtful.

Notice how his behaviour has escalated? This is because, regardless of how that 'creepy factor' went up a notch or two, you were still nice to him. Guys like this (with good or with bad intentions) will push until you signal for them to back off. Their idea of courtship is seeking out boundaries and pushing, ever so gently, putting on that 'nice guy' smile as their weapon of choice.

I hate that he followed you to comp because, even though it was 'still dancing' this was interaction outside of the studio. Not a good thing at all. You have no idea what is going on in that head of his. Does he know where you live? Does he have your phone number? Does he know where you work? I would suggest supplying him with absolutely no personal information that would give him ways to drive by your place at night or call you.

I think you should put the chill on. Be nice, but be firm. You don't have to stop dancing with him completely but do start saying no when you've already had a dance or two. Explain to a male friend your problems and I think he will come along to a few dance socials. And yes, I think you should tell the studio manager you are uncomfortable.

I apologize if any of this sounds over the top. I've had problems with several stalkers. The key point is to trust your instinct. Does he give off a creepy vibe? Most men do not. Most nice men are just that - nice men. If he's nice to you and has that creepy vibe and doesn't seem to have any other friends, do NOT feel sorry for him and be his new best friend! Bad, bad, bad idea...

[tanya_the_dancer]

The only thing about telling other people is that, in my experience, guys don't understand how a girl can feel threatened by a man acting like this. They tend to just think it's funny and harmless. When they laugh it off when I tell them about it, it makes me feel stupid and overly dramatic. So, I tend to keep quiet about it until it gets really bad.

I'm just wondering how old the guy is anyway? I mean if he is obviously so old all he can do is talk and sometimes pull a girl too close during a dance, that I guess I would write him off as a harmless old dude (and I've met a few guys like that). But I would be very uncomfortable with that level of attention if he looked still young enough to do something more than talk.

[wyllo]

If it makes her uncomfortable, then it's not harmless. I'm with all of the posters who say the time for polite is over.

[Beetlebug]

Beetlebug,

These traps are always so easy to fall into. I too have had these sorts of problems and, yes, the police have gotten involved.

Your problem (and mine) is we're simply too nice. We are nice and this is part of the game. I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, that being "too nice" is a bad thing. These sorts of men gravitate toward the "nice" ladies for any number of reasons - Perhaps we seem less threatening, more approachable - Perhaps they take our polite conversation to mean something more, as other women who pick up on the creepy vibes tend to not talk to them - Perhaps (a more dark approach) our nice attitudes make us seem weaker, more easily taken advantage of. These men can be harmless or hurtful. Unfortunately some of these types put up a good appearance of being harmless before revealing the hurtful.

Notice how his behaviour has escalated? This is because, regardless of how that 'creepy factor' went up a notch or two, you were still nice to him. Guys like this (with good or with bad intentions) will push until you signal for them to back off. Their idea of courtship is seeking out boundaries and pushing, ever so gently, putting on that 'nice guy' smile as their weapon of choice.

I hate that he followed you to comp because, even though it was 'still dancing' this was interaction outside of the studio. Not a good thing at all. You have no idea what is going on in that head of his. Does he know where you live? Does he have your phone number? Does he know where you work? I would suggest supplying him with absolutely no personal information that would give him ways to drive by your place at night or call you.

I think you should put the chill on. Be nice, but be firm. You don't have to stop dancing with him completely but do start saying no when you've already had a dance or two. Explain to a male friend your problems and I think he will come along to a few dance socials. And yes, I think you should tell the studio manager you are uncomfortable.

I apologize if any of this sounds over the top. I've had problems with several stalkers. The key point is to trust your instinct. Does he give off a creepy vibe? Most men do not. Most nice men are just that - nice men. If he's nice to you and has that creepy vibe and doesn't seem to have any other friends, do NOT feel sorry for him and be his new best friend! Bad, bad, bad idea...

He does not know where I live or work, nor does he have my phone number or any other personal info. I will be very careful not to give him any information about me.

I do not want to dance with him at all again. Only problem is that I've started going to some of the group classes and he's always there....in that setting, I have to dance with him when we rotate through partners. I don't want to not go to something I enjoy just because of this weirdo. I will not go to anymore practice parties...I don't enjoy them much anyway, so that's okay with me.

I agree with trusting my instinct. My instinct is telling me to be careful with this guy. He's definitely giving off creepy vibes. I don't think this of every nice guy or every guy who shows interest in me. Two other men from my studio kept sitting with me, talking to me, complimenting how I looked, but I didn't get any weird vibes from them...I was flattered by what they said and how they said it. For example on of them said, "You look stunning. That is a beautiful dress. Isn't our girl lovely? (he directed that to the other guy that was sitting with me)" I thought it was very nice. The creepy guy said, "I saw you in that short brown dress at rehearsal and I about passed out. Then you changed into the short blue dress and you looked so hot....ummmmmm....I thought I was going to die.....I can't wait to see you in them again at the competition...ummmmm" as he was leering at me. There is a big difference in how these people commented on my appearance.

It's not even that I think this man will follow me home or anything like that...I just don't like having to deal with his unwanted advances. It makes me angry that men cross lines like this and make women feel uncomfortable. I do need to learn how to deal with this now, as was said, or I will be wasting a lot of energy trying to avoid these people for the rest of my life.

[HF]

I do need to learn how to deal with this now, as was said, or I will be wasting a lot of energy trying to avoid these people for the rest of my life.

Do you already have an approach for this?

[fascination]

It's not even that I think this man will follow me home or anything like that...I just don't like having to deal with his unwanted advances. It makes me angry that men cross lines like this and make women feel uncomfortable. I do need to learn how to deal with this now, as was said, or I will be wasting a lot of energy trying to avoid these people for the rest of my life.then be very very firm without being mean and resist the urge to feel guilty or apologetic...you'll get used to it

[fascination]

I'm just wondering how old the guy is anyway? I mean if he is obviously so old all he can do is talk and sometimes pull a girl too close during a dance, that I guess I would write him off as a harmless old dude (and I've met a few guys like that). But I would be very uncomfortable with that level of attention if he looked still young enough to do something more than talk.harmless old dudes aren't entitled to use their age in that manner...I get it all the time at the gym...most internal warning lights are correct...no one is reporting him to the police, just saying she has a right to discourage him

[fascination]

I agree that my first step is to let him know that his behavior isn't acceptable and he is making me uncomfortable....it's just hard for me to do because I guarantee that he thinks he's being flattering. He thinks I enjoy the attention (granted I haven't told him otherwise), and I can see the weird look on his face when I tell him to back off.

I think I'll talk to my pro about it this week and see if he can help. I'm upset about it because it's tainting my enjoyment of dancing and being at my studio because I have to deal with this guy. I guess it's time to grow a pair...

Again, thank you all....I just needed some encouragement to stand up for myself.
another nicely veiling way of handling it is "hey guy, for your own sake you might want to tone it down a bit b/c this sort of constant attention could scare some women and could be misundertood as innappropriate"....

[Beetlebug]

Do you already have an approach for this?

Seems to be the consensus to say, "You are making me uncomfortable with your behavior", although I do really like, "Dude, this really makes me uncomfortable. Ya gotta stop"

[fascination]

either is fine

[HF]

Suggestion for a structure that allows him to back up and save his face:


I noticed that you kind of like me and I appreciate that. I feel that it takes some bravery to express this.

However our interest is not mutual. I am sorry I have to say it so clearly but you are not a person I want to be connected to. I thought it would be fair to say this plainly, so we can avoid any misunderstandings for the future.

It is OK if we dance now and then. But - not more or less from my side than with any other dancer, and I expect to be treated respectfully. And, as we already are on it, don't follow my ways or wait for me a the parking place. In case you should think I like this - I really don't.

So better you go your way and I go mine ... and if we happen to meet on the dance floor now and then this is the maximum that would be OK for me.


Something like that.

[samina]

too wordy, IMO. keep it short & sweet, minimal effort, maximum clarity. she's not dating the guy, after all...

[fascination]

too wordy, IMO. keep it short & sweet, minimal effort, maximum clarity. she's not dating the guy, after all...
agree...

[jjs914]

The only thing about telling other people is that, in my experience, guys don't understand how a girl can feel threatened by a man acting like this. They tend to just think it's funny and harmless. When they laugh it off when I tell them about it, it makes me feel stupid and overly dramatic. So, I tend to keep quiet about it until it gets really bad.

Look on the bright side: Now you know we don't think you're stupid and overly dramatic. I hope that helps!

[BM]

Two other men from my studio kept sitting with me, talking to me, complimenting how I looked, but I didn't get any weird vibes from them...I was flattered by what they said and how they said it. For example on of them said, "You look stunning. That is a beautiful dress. Isn't our girl lovely? (he directed that to the other guy that was sitting with me)" I thought it was very nice. The creepy guy said, "I saw you in that short brown dress at rehearsal and I about passed out. Then you changed into the short blue dress and you looked so hot....ummmmmm....I thought I was going to die.....I can't wait to see you in them again at the competition...ummmmm" as he was leering at me.

::gags a little:: That's vile. He just lost all chances of receiving a polite response with that. It's crass, and he needs a VERY firm warning. Be as blunt as you want.

Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew.

Regardless of age, I would loathe to hear that from most people. It is not my job to turn you on, sir. Keep your trashy comments to yourself.

[cornutt]

+1. This guy is out of line and the picture stuff sounds borderline stalkerish to me. However, it may be that he has very poor social skills. Not that that's an excuse for his behavior.

Yeah, the photo thing was the line. As I was reading the OP, I thought of plausible innocent explanations for each thing, just to make sure I was maintaining an appropriate amount of skepticism, but when I came to the photo bit, I got nothin'. It still might be just poor skills rather than stalking, but the two things are not mutually exclusive. I'm not there so I'm not sure exactly how I'd play it, but the "treat him like you treat everyone else" thing is often a good strategy. That often seems to be the best way to get the point across to someone that "you're a good person, but there's lots of good people here, and you're nothing special to me." It still might be a good idea to let the studio management know, just so they can keep an eye on things. You might not be the only woman in the studio getting this treatment from him.

[Warren J. Dew]

Suggestion for a structure that allows him to back up and save his face:

Why let him save face? The objective is to get him to stop. Being nice is only going to encourage him.

I noticed that you kind of like me and I appreciate that. I feel that it takes some bravery to express this.

I think this is likely to make him think "wow, she actually enjoys my attention!" That's exactly what the original poster wants to avoid.

He'll just ignore everything after that, except that he'll hear the "OK if we dance now and then" and interpret "now and then" to mean "all the time".

It is not, repeat not, necessary to dance with anyone you feel uncomfortable dancing with. If you want to be polite, just say "no thank you" every time he asks, and jerk away if he tries to dance with you without asking. In this case, though, I tend to agree with the people who don't think it's even necessary to be that polite.

I do agree that the group classes are a stickier situation.

[dance234]

talk to the studio owner.

i suspect, based on your account, that the behavior has already been noticed at the studio... in other words i doubt your broaching the topic will surprise anyone.

[Chiron]

Dang this guy is really creepy. Usually if your creep meter is going off you are right.

I don't think of it so much as putting them in the middle, but it can be something as simple as having someone on hand who's willing to get up and dance at a moment's notice when the guy is coming her way, or who's willing to be "very involved in an intense and private conversation" when the guy wants to chat. Not to put them so much in the middle, but to have a ready-made excuse to not engage.

I've done this a few times for friends and have never minded. I've also had a female friend do it for me once (no one creepy, just was getting stuck in a boring conversation and not dancing).

Seems to be the consensus to say, "You are making me uncomfortable with your behavior", although I do really like, "Dude, this really makes me uncomfortable. Ya gotta stop"

I like both of those. I would probably also say something to the management.

I do not want to dance with him at all again. Only problem is that I've started going to some of the group classes and he's always there....in that setting, I have to dance with him when we rotate through partners. I don't want to not go to something I enjoy just because of this weirdo. I will not go to anymore practice parties...I don't enjoy them much anyway, so that's okay with me.

If you've said something to the management and teacher knows you are really uncomfortable around this guy they might be able to help. It might just be that when you have to dance with him that it always ends up being a short time before the next time to switch.

[NoDayButToday]

If you are uncomfortable speaking to be him about his creepy behavior, it's always a good idea to speak to someone who can help you. Maybe you want to try just having the owner present when you speak to this man. Or speak to the owner and have him/her confront him... Ethier way, voice your concerns. Ultimately, this can interfere with your dancing.... if he's making you uncomfortable, it's not okay. Good luck.

[Beetlebug]

I am so appreciative of all your advice...glad I'm not the only one who thinks this guy is majorly creepy. I guess I started doubting myself when I mentioned the photo thing and the guy staring at me at the comp to one girl in particular....she blew it off and said, "Well, he comes up and talks to me too...I don't think there's anything weird about it....I think he's just that friendly". It made me feel like she thought that I think I'm so completely awesome that men are making fools of themselves for me...like I was being completely egotistical. That is not how I feel at all...I am not enjoying this and wish it hadn't happened. Thank you all for validating what I was thinking....I will be at my studio Friday and will discuss it with my pro and probably the owner. The creepy guy is usually there on Fridays, so I plan on letting him know it's not okay to act this way and I will let you all know how it goes.

[NoDayButToday]

Well, that girl is not YOU. She doesn't know exactly what's going on with you so don't second guess his ridiculous behavior. Now, if I were you... I would've flipped out on him a long time ago. Keep us posted and seriously think about having someone else present when you talk to him... it'll make you feel more comfortable, and probably safer too.

[HF]

Why let him save face? The objective is to get him to stop. Being nice is only going to encourage him.

Because letting him save his face will probably stop him more effectively than making him an enemy. Win-Lose situations slap back.

But I agree this depends on how much common sense he still has, and this is hard to say at distance.

To the OP: Reviewing this thread I see that I mixed some of the events of the first and the second post, so maybe keep it short. But the thing you probably could consider is this: If you feel uncomfortable with something (and I mean any situation), say it earlier which will give you a chance to say it firm but friendly.

There are people that unpack very late what bothers them, and then with a big crash. I am just speculating here but setting your borders early, firm and friendly could be practical.

To begin with: If a dance partner is holding you closer than you want then use the pressure of your left arm to his shoulder to create the distance you want.

[fascination]

Well, that girl is not YOU. She doesn't know exactly what's going on with you so don't second guess his ridiculous behavior. Now, if I were you... I would've flipped out on him a long time ago. Keep us posted and seriously think about having someone else present when you talk to him... it'll make you feel more comfortable, and probably safer too.
unfortunately, flipping out for women in particular is not a good option b/c then the methodology can unfairly become the focus instead of the merit of the claim...back to "dude, regardless of your intent, that is not okay with me and I mean it...i hope that doesn't hurt your feelings because it ain't gonna change"

[fascination]

I am so appreciative of all your advice...glad I'm not the only one who thinks this guy is majorly creepy. I guess I started doubting myself when I mentioned the photo thing and the guy staring at me at the comp to one girl in particular....she blew it off and said, "Well, he comes up and talks to me too...I don't think there's anything weird about it....I think he's just that friendly". It made me feel like she thought that I think I'm so completely awesome that men are making fools of themselves for me...like I was being completely egotistical. That is not how I feel at all...I am not enjoying this and wish it hadn't happened. Thank you all for validating what I was thinking....I will be at my studio Friday and will discuss it with my pro and probably the owner. The creepy guy is usually there on Fridays, so I plan on letting him know it's not okay to act this way and I will let you all know how it goes.
not surprised.... part of abuse cycles is that people can talk themselves into normalizing anything so that they don't have to make hard decisions...unfortunate

[cornutt]

not surprised.... part of abuse cycles is that people can talk themselves into normalizing anything so that they don't have to make hard decisions...unfortunate

Wisdom here.

[NoDayButToday]

unfortunately, flipping out for women in particular is not a good option b/c then the methodology can unfairly become the focus instead of the merit of the claim...back to "dude, regardless of your intent, that is not okay with me and I mean it...i hope that doesn't hurt your feelings because it ain't gonna change"


Yeah I see your point. But if I was that creeped out and probably scared too, I would most likely flip out without thinking my words through... which of course is not always a good thing as you point out.

[fascination]

yes...I have BTDT

[Beetlebug]

Update:

I had a lesson yesterday and was pumped up to confront this guy if he started his weird crap again...turns out he is out of town on vacation, so I didn't see him.

I spoke with my pro about it...he laughed about it at first and said that everyone at the studio knew he was just a dirty old guy. I stressed to him that it was really making me uncomfortable, to the point that I didn't want to go to group classes or practice parties anymore because of it. He said he would talk to the owner and tell her to have a talk with dirty old man.

He said the guy had always been like that...that he did the "boob-brush" when getting into frame with the studio owner when she used to teach him. It annoyed her, but everyone thinks he's harmless. To me, it doesn't matter if he's not a stalker, isn't going to try to do anything serious...the fact is that what he is doing is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed to continue. I'm not the first person who has been uncomfortable with him, so this needs to stop.

My pro did think it was hilarious about the photo thing...I told him it pissed me off and I was really bothered by this guy...he gave me a big hug, said, "awwwwwwww" and told me not to worry, that they would take care of it. It made me feel much better. So, hopefully, this will be taken care of and I can get back to enjoying dancing. I do still plan to let creepy guy know I'm not having his behavior if he starts this stuff again.

[Peaches]

Update:

I had a lesson yesterday and was pumped up to confront this guy if he started his weird crap again...turns out he is out of town on vacation, so I didn't see him.

I spoke with my pro about it...he laughed about it at first and said that everyone at the studio knew he was just a dirty old guy. I stressed to him that it was really making me uncomfortable, to the point that I didn't want to go to group classes or practice parties anymore because of it. He said he would talk to the owner and tell her to have a talk with dirty old man.

He said the guy had always been like that...that he did the "boob-brush" when getting into frame with the studio owner when she used to teach him. It annoyed her, but everyone thinks he's harmless. To me, it doesn't matter if he's not a stalker, isn't going to try to do anything serious...the fact is that what he is doing is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed to continue. I'm not the first person who has been uncomfortable with him, so this needs to stop.

My pro did think it was hilarious about the photo thing...I told him it pissed me off and I was really bothered by this guy...he gave me a big hug, said, "awwwwwwww" and told me not to worry, that they would take care of it. It made me feel much better. So, hopefully, this will be taken care of and I can get back to enjoying dancing. I do still plan to let creepy guy know I'm not having his behavior if he starts this stuff again.I'd be beyond pissed if I brought up something like this and got a brush-off. ESPECIALLY since they know about it, on many occasions, with multiple people. That's NOT "just a harmless, dirty old man." That's sexual harassment bordering on stalking. And shame on the studio owner for not doing what they can to stop the behavior. Especially given that it's made at least one of their clients consider going elsewhere. If nothing else, from a purely selfish (their) position, it's bad business.

[Beetlebug]

I agree with you...I don't know why people don't take this seriously, and like I said before, that's why I don't say anything until it gets really bad. In past situations, I got the same reaction from people I told about it. They laugh it off and act like I'm overreacting....they think it's funny that the poor ole guy is so smitten (men that are old enough to be my grandfather...that's just sick!)....it doesn't matter that the guy is not following me home, etc....what he's doing is wrong. I'm tired of people telling me just to deal with it...that it's not a big thing. Why are women supposed to put up with men doing "boob brushes", dancing too close, making inappropriate comments? Why should I have to "deal with it" versus him being made to stop? It's so frustrating.

The only thing I can think is that men don't have to deal with this as much and don't see it as threatening. I'll always remember something I read years ago, something like..."A man's biggest fear is of being laughed at by a woman. A woman's biggest fear is being killed by a man". When should it be taken seriously? When the guy starts looking in my window at night?

[fascination]

A)sometimes the size of the guys' wallet can impact how motivated a studio is to label him a perv...
B)look, no guy has permission to touch without your explicit permission...and any guy running off to buy pictures of you is just plain overboard...maybe they don't need to toss him out but they do need to reassure you that a close eye will be kept on him...but frankly, if he put a move on the owner and she did nothing about it...I think you had better find your backbone b/c I don't think you're gonna get much help there
C)as a fairly decent looking woman who works at a gym, I get more that my fair share of this...and an abundance of it from men old enough to be my father...I do not let them touch me and I have to border on rude, b/c subtlety is gonna get you nowhere...again, if you are a fairly young female...everyone involved is counting on you to be a wimp about it

[QPO]

I agree, with the others what he is doing is passive stalking, but you need to set the ground rules and let him know (politely of course) that you are not interested. If he does not get the message then you can escalate your tone to become more assertive. Make sure you tell the school who runs the classes so they can keep an eye on it. I hope that he gets the message and backs off.