Pro Competition

[Easy]

I've often wondered why the chain studios have pro competitions for their beginning instructors and the independent competitions don't.

It's a great way to give baby teachers an environment to excel in before they jump into the waters with the big fish.

When I was last with a chain, they had a novice category...0-1 and 1/2 years of instruction and a pre championship category where the instructors may not have been teaching for more than 5 years. There was a third called "mixed novice" whereby one person in the partnership would have been a novice while the other could be from any level.

The student pool is often being replenished, but after awhile us instructors become that 50+ dance teacher mentioned in another thread that need to sit down for a break more and more.

The first two categories, IMO, could be a great thing at competitions. What do you all think?

[fascination]

not being a pro I have no perspective from that end but being in an area where there are allot of baby instructors and very little "tooth cutting" opportunities I would think it would be a very good thing...but...I'll admit my view on this is worth...not much

[etp777]

I know I really enjoy watching them, and the teachers seem to enjoy doing them, too. Teachers from my studio did it for the first time (well, first time for currente teachers, we've had former teachers that did it) at our closed comp in March. Now they're all really eager to compete at some of the local open comps. Will be looking forward to cheering them on there, too. :) As you said, worked out great to get their feet wet, so to speak.

[DanceMentor]

I think this can also be a great way to encourage new partnerships. New pros often feel intimidated, and it would be very beneficial if there were a way to work your way up the ladder of success, rather than being asked to either start on the upper rungs, or not compete at all.

[Warren J. Dew]

There are "rising star" categories.

[NielsenE]

And Ed Simon's Empire State Championships last year offered "Future Champions" as a pro-division below Rising Star.... However I don't believe they got a lot of entries..

So I think the opportunities are there; however I don't think the culture is there to encourage the beginning pros to participate. There's a lot riding on their careers and being seen on the floor before they are "ready" can be a bad thing that their coaches would likely discourage.... At the chain school events I've been at, this doesn't seem to be the case -- I mean I've seen many of them doing collegiate style "TBA" partnering -- just finding random partners from the other studios in the region and spending a few minutes putting routines together. It might not be actively encouraged, but its not discouraged from what I've seen.... Plus their "Mixed Novice" type event is different... its not really a Rising Star division, but almost more of a Pro-Am/Mixed Proficiency type event that is designed for mentoring the young pros....

I'd have a hard time seeing this type of experience at a non-closed event, unless it was only professionals.... no amateurs in the ballroom at all, etc

[Standarddancer]

this is very interesting!!! could be equivalent to college comps for amateurs? just to give new pros more opportunities to get on floor to "practice"? could be good idea...

[Joe]

I've often wondered why the chain studios have pro competitions for their beginning instructors and the independent competitions don't.
Prolly #1 is "infrastructure" and #2 is culture (as Eric mentions above). The chains have the organizational infrastructure to arrange this, the independents don't--by virtue of being independent. :)

[Standarddancer]

then does comps organized by Chain also allow beginning pros from independent studio to enter their comps?

[Throwaway Overshare]

Chain competitions have lower level pro divisions because the chains employ lots of lower level teachers and label them as professionals. The mainstream NDCA comps were more geared towards developing future teachers in the amateur champ division before employing them, but today it is permitted for younger working teachers to continue to compete there as amateurs.

It becomes a problem of labeling: in the NDCA world a dancer with competitive aspirations should not call themselves a professional until they are ready to compete as one, or they will be shut out of the divisions where their dance skills would place them. The chains aren't trying to send their lower level teachers to compete at these so probably won't start billing them as amateur teachers. Instead they give them an opportunity to gain experience within the family at closed competitions. A teacher who has left the franchise world and no longer has access to these might consider trying to be reinstated as an amateur.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I've seen a "professional basics" event listed in one comp, but it looked like pros who entered it were not new in a sense discussed in this thread.

Also, I wanted to add, that I've seen a lot of newer teachers just compete with their students in pro-am events (usually closed ones) for a while before they get a pro partner and start competing in pro events.

[Corne]

I just posted a thread on this comp in atlanta in october. It offers "professional novice 3 dance division for all 4 divisions for professionals under 2 years experience" among others. Assuming that 4 divisions means 4 styles.

www . hotlantadance.com/rising_star/2008/RSdefault.htm (http://www.hotlantadance.com/rising_star/2008/RSdefault.htm)

[Standarddancer]

I just posted a thread on this comp in atlanta in october. It offers "professional novice 3 dance division for all 4 divisions for professionals under 2 years experience" among others. Assuming that 4 divisions means 4 styles.

www . hotlantadance.com/rising_star/2008/RSdefault.htm (http://www.hotlantadance.com/rising_star/2008/RSdefault.htm)

very interesting!!! they say "This professional event is for instructors with fewer than three years experience or have never competed", but didn't specify if 3 years for teaching experience or competition experience., well guess means both?

[Standarddancer]

I've seen a "professional basics" event listed in one comp, but it looked like pros who entered it were not new in a sense discussed in this thread.



I've remember back in 2003 or 2004, in MDC there was a division kind of similar to "master of syllabus" for professionals, but I've seen very top pros competing in it, maybe by that time they didnt' expect top pros would be registering so didn't put a statement in comp policy "for new teachers only"....

[Chris Stratton]

I think 'pro basics' was supposed to be a professional master-of-syllabus event - a demonstration what fundamentals could look like when done really, really well.

[Easy]

All good points!

The chains definitely have the venues and infrastructure to accomodate these events.

On stating that there are rising star events already... I was meaning for these divisions to be pre rising star.

Once a teacher, at least in the past, accepted their first cent for teaching, they were considered a pro. In the states, while a good number of the great pros you see might have come from and been groomed from independent studios or rose from amateur status, the vast majority of great teachers you see out there today might be independent now, but they came from and were groomed by a chain studio.

I can see the negative side of the new pros competing. Their students do get to see their actual level, etc. I do, however, see the positives far exceeding the negatives on this one. Students aren't stupid...they've seen dancing with the stars and all. I don't think they really believe their new level teachers are on that level, but they are stars to them on a local level. I really believe that if the new instructors had a goal of competition for themselves, it would hold more weight with the teacher asking a brand new student to compete....kind of like "I'm doing it. You could too! Let's go for it together"

Lot's of pros and cons. I just think it would be great for those teachers to be able to compete on a level playing field early in their careers, instead of waitng a few years until they're maybe ready for rising star. Tough to police the levels, but who polices the pro/am now...NOBODY!

From my experience, if I were a student, I'd rather have a teacher with a goal practicing his/her dancing on their own and spending their own money on coaching because progress is important to them, instead of a new teacher learning as they go along with only me and his/her other students as their practice partners. Teachers who compete learn much quicker than teachers who have no goal other than the work itself IMMHO ;)

[Joe]

It becomes a problem of labeling: in the NDCA world a dancer with competitive aspirations should not call themselves a professional until they are ready to compete as one, or they will be shut out of the divisions where their dance skills would place them.
Everyone's gotta start somewhere. There's nothing stopping anyone from entering Rising Star Pro, even if they're not going to make any cuts.

[NielsenE]

From my experience, if I were a student, I'd rather have a teacher with a goal practicing his/her dancing on their own and spending their own money on coaching because progress is important to them, instead of a new teacher learning as they go along with only me and his/her other students as their practice partners. Teachers who compete learn much quicker than teachers who have no goal other than the work itself IMMHO ;)

I totally agree. One of my largest 'complaints' about the studio I call home is that I don't feel the teachers are pushing their own dancing too aggressively/keeping up with the trends in the different styles (even if they choose not to embrace/adapt the trend, I feel teachers should at least be aware of how the dance is current evolving and the various pros/cons as debated among the coach's coaches.

[Easy]

Just have to say hey so this thread stays fairly new and anyone who hasn't seen it yet might respond :)

[samina]

I think 'pro basics' was supposed to be a professional master-of-syllabus event - a demonstration what fundamentals could look like when done really, really well.

I know my instructor is a fan of participating in them...