Fixing a Posture Problem

[MYLNYU]

My partner has a really bad posture problem in both standard and latin. He doesn't have scoliosis or anything--when he lifts himself up and elongates his spine, it looks great. I've been trying a variety of ways to get him to correct this bad habit, including positive and negative reinforcement. I've tried complimenting him, collecting change from him whenever I spot a posture problem (seriously, don't make fun of me), refusing to dance with him if he doesn't "present" himself, etc. I know it's something he has to really actively change by himself, but are there any tips anyone has for dealing with this?

[fascination]

there are many ways to have bad posture...what is his specific issue?

[Josh]

I've tried complimenting him

Good!

, collecting change from him whenever I spot a posture problem (seriously, don't make fun of me)

Bad. (Well, for him, good for your pocketbook)

refusing to dance with him if he doesn't "present" himself

VERY bad.

but are there any tips anyone has for dealing with this?

Yes: be patient with your partner, focus on correcting YOUR problems, and let your coach or teacher correct HIS. Posture takes years to develop to where it is consistent. Give him time. Negative reinforcement rarely works, and when it does, it MUST be from a someone on a much higher level who he respects in that way. You are PARTNERS, and you should treat him with respect and dignity. Taking his money and refusing to dance with him is not a healthy partnership, and he will never gain confidence that way, as 50% of good posture is purely psychological. When you do these foolish things, you are hurting him and yourself.

[MYLNYU]

His head is always in front of his neck. He has trouble arching his back for some steps. Basically, his spine and his head are not in alignment, and therefore he isn't standing up straight.

[fascination]

so he has trouble seeing the base of his skull as needing to be over his spine...seems to me that all that can be done is for him to practice with that as his sole focus for several hours a week until it goes away

[Larinda McRaven]

Posture takes years to develop to where it is consistent.

Yes, and unfortunately he has had a lifetime to make them consitent... in a bad way.

Taking his money and refusing to dance with him is not a healthy partnership, and he will never gain confidence that way, as 50% of good posture is purely psychological. When you do these foolish things, you are hurting him and yourself. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but I'd be surprised if 99% of the people here disagreed with these sentiments.

I dunno, I teach pretty harsh sometimes, but always with a good natured smile. I have taken money from students on a lesson who agree to betting a dollar against their flaw. As long as everyone is okay, then I wouldn't think twice about scare tactics. Except that in this situation the roles are not set up for her to be his teacher, and confusing your roles is a more dangerous scenario.

[fascination]

I find that terror is a good motivator ;)

[pruthe]

Did you try the old string attached to top of head and constantly pulling up trick? I agree with Josh that it takes long time to develop posture. It takes a fair amount of mental energy to maintain posture throughout dancing. Then when trying to remember what figures and technique to use, mental energy for posture can be lost. Basically, need to acquire an autonomous muscle memory for posture before can redirect mental energy to other things. At least, that's the way it seems to me.

[Larinda McRaven]

i Find That Terror Is A Good Motivator ;):) ...

[and123]

Has he *seen* himself dancing with this poor posture? Sometimes seeing it is enough of a shock to really want to do something about it. My Standard coach has an uncanny ability to mimic the bad habits of students to prove a point.... seeing what it looks like (versus what it *should* look like) is invaluable.

[Larinda McRaven]

He is going to have to incoprorate it into his everyday life. Because 2 hours a week cannot over come 166.

[emeralddancer]

Did you try the old string attached to top of head and constantly pulling up trick? I agree with Josh that it takes long time to develop posture. It takes a fair amount of mental energy to maintain posture throughout dancing. Then when trying to remember what figures and technique to use, mental energy for posture can be lost. Basically, need to acquire an autonomous muscle memory for posture before can redirect mental energy to other things. At least, that's the way it seems to me.

I try this too, the string attached to the top of the head, or in my case chest and yes it IS so difficult to remember posture, technique, positions of feet, figures in each dance you know, etc ...


Has he *seen* himself dancing with this poor posture? Sometimes seeing it is enough of a shock to really want to do something about it. My Standard coach has an uncanny ability to mimic the bad habits of students to prove a point.... seeing what it looks like (versus what it *should* look like) is invaluable.


My instructor does this with me ALL the time. It is effective. But only to a point.

So I try daily to maintain a ballroom dancers posture ... but I find at times I revert back to my old ways. And at times it actually hurts because I am correcting what I have been doing wrong for so many years.

[biggestbox]

always be positive. if you tell someone who has bad turns: "hey your turning is getting better," they will start working on it more in order to get more compliments. Soon enough they will be doing triple turns without a problem.

There is an "intermediate" posture that helped me. (disclaimer this is technically incorrect). the key is to lift your ribs to the max. Not stick out but lift like crazy. This naturally keeps your head back and body somewhat aligned. It also becomes very comfortable to dance as the posture requires no gripping. this is technically wrong because you are only supposed to lift the top 4 vertebra and keep your spine as straight as possible (you remove the lower tilt by keeping the tail bone down, and you remove the upper rounding by stretching the lower neck), but this posture gives a nice feeling of naturalness and counter acts any slouching. You seen champ level dancers use this posture, it is very easy and very effective. As your bone structure changes with your spine, you will be able to let your ribs “fall” into position which is the correct posture you see in world class dancers.

[etp777]

Has he *seen* himself dancing with this poor posture? Sometimes seeing it is enough of a shock to really want to do something about it. My Standard coach has an uncanny ability to mimic the bad habits of students to prove a point.... seeing what it looks like (versus what it *should* look like) is invaluable.

I definitely agree with this one, and would take it one step further. Videotape him and amke him watch it (with pro, of course). It's easy to deny that you are really doing something unless you actually see it (or agree at time, then rationalize it away). Have him watch video of it, have pro show what it should like, then he can go with pro (preferably in front of mirror) and can take what he's doing and correct it. If he can SEE what he's doing wrong, then SEE himself doing it rigth (and proboably twice as important, feel what the right way feels like), he's going to have an easier time fixing it.

Least, works that way for me.

[_malakawa_]

what about an really old way.

take a scarf and put it around his sholder and tied up on his back. that should forced him to stay strait.

also you can buy danceframe teaching tool.

[latingal]

Your partner will only change his posture if he makes the decision to do it and invests many a non-dancing hour doing it.

As others in the thread have pointed out, there may be some ways to help him see why it might be advantageous to change his posture, but in the end HE has to want to do it for the betterment of his and his partnership's dancing.

[_malakawa_]

Your partner will only change his posture if he makes the decision to do it and invests many a non-dancing hour doing it.

As others in the thread have pointed out, there may be some ways to help him see why it might be advantageous to change his posture, but in the end HE has to want to do it for the betterment of his and his partnership's dancing.


that is correct. He has to want to do it. Otherwise no matter what you say or do will not help.

[Sunshines Partner]

You can't fix posture problems with one hour a day. You have to live and breath good posture. Maintain you posture not only when your dancing but when your walking on the street, sitting in a chair. All day long maintain your posture and you will be suprised how fast it gets better.

That being said no matter how good it gets it's the first thing any top coach or teacher will work on.

[fascination]

yep...I have been recently informed of some nasty habits and I am now thinking of them when I jog and when I work out etc...

[Gorme]

His head is always in front of his neck. He has trouble arching his back for some steps. Basically, his spine and his head are not in alignment, and therefore he isn't standing up straight.

I have the same problem with my head always being forward of my spine. I get so embarrassed when I see it on video as it looks like I'm a turtle. One thing my instructor tried out was to take some tape (like duct tape) and place one end at the back of the guy's shirt collar and the other end at the back of the head where the neck hair is. Make sure the tape is very tight when his head is in the right position. When the head starts to pitch forward, the guy will feel his hair start to tear off. It's really effective until he has no more hair left in that spot.

[syncopationator]

Its muscle memory. you just have to practice as much as possible until you get used to it. I still have a problem sometimes, but its getting better.

[chasphoto]

This is a problem dear to my heart and back. I had this problem for years and still fight it today. One word is Pilates and not mat work but machine work. If he sits at a computer most of the day the head tilt and the shoulder fold. The chest muscle tighten and the back muscle lenghten. This pushes the head and everything forward. I worked at it for a year before I got major improvement but it is worth it. People comment now how different I look and how better I dance. You can tell him all different ways to rise and get in the right position. But if the muscles are not working right he will go right back to bad habits.

[Merrylegs]

Chasphoto, I was just going to suggest Pilates and Yoga.

I've always had to "shake off" the posture of sitting at a desk all day before I start a lesson/practice.

And let's not forget that sometimes, it cannot be helped. It's just the way some people's bodies are made.

[dbk]

Have you tried seeing another pro for this? There might be something completely out of left field that's making it hard for him to keep his posture up, and your coach might be missing it.

[chasphoto]

Merrylegs I agree some people have body problems. God knows I'm not perfect. But I think Pilates would help and if he can go to a medical Pilates person. Your insurance will sometimes pay for it. That's what I did. Also if the studio has a dance frame spend some time in that.

[wooh]

Just try to keep in mind that it's his problem to correct. And while he's working on that, I'm sure you have something you can correct in yourself.:)

[TAK]

Ooh, I have the same problem.

I have to side with those who have said punishment may be a bad idea...first of all because I personally let my head stick out more often when I'm stressed out and focusing hard, and also because goodness knows I'm embarrassed about it already and would just feel awful if my partner and teacher complained about it much more than they do.

I really like the duct tape idea someone mentioned here--I'm going to try that next time I practice! I've also found it helpful to practice with a yardstick down the back of my shirt. I wear my hair in a low ponytail and stick the yardstick through the elastic so it's holding the back of my neck in place. A little cumbersome, especially for Latin--but it is much more effective than sheer willpower, which for me doesn't work all that well, haha.

Be supportive. He is trying hard, and as a psychology student I can tell you that pure conditioning is not always the best way of doing things!

[Casayoto]

I have a similar posture problem that I've been working on. If your partner puts both hands behind his head(like he was going to do a situp) and pushes his head back into his hands, that should work the muscles in his back and neck that need to be strengthened to hold his spine in correct alignment. Once he finds those muscles, and that feeling of pushing his head straight back(not just tilting it, but really moving his entire head), he should be able to work on it during practice without using his hands. I would suggest having him start every practice by doing this using his hands to remind himself of the feeling of it, and because it's harder with physical resistance and will work the muscles more. Once practice begins, he should continue that feeling of pushing his head back constantly. A gentle reminder frequently throughout practice should work without getting too annoying. But, that's slightly dependent on your personalities. ;)

p.s. Sorry if this is a little wordy. It's tough to describe an exercise accurately without physically being there to help.

[BasicsFirst]

Yes: be patient with your partner, focus on correcting YOUR problems, and let your coach or teacher correct HIS.

OK I have been working on this for "years". While I agree with this statement for most things, NOT for this. The worst thing you can do is let him get away with it. For something like this you have to correct him EVERY time/ ALL the time. Even my partner doesn't tell me OFTEN enough, and when she doesn't I "think" I'm doing great. Believe me, those of us with this "want" to fix it, so it's not a question of wanting to or not wanting to. We just really feel and think like we're standing (dancing) perfectly erect.

[samina]

I find that terror is a good motivator ;)

it really is true.

honestly...for something like this, which is really critical...being too nice isn't going to elicit change. i'm all for some tough love for something like this. it's gonna require some major pattern-interruption and the formulation of a new way of being from the inside out. that can only happen with sheer determination from within... and a reason behind it. give him that reason.:cool:

[samina]

Has he *seen* himself dancing with this poor posture? Sometimes seeing it is enough of a shock to really want to do something about it. My Standard coach has an uncanny ability to mimic the bad habits of students to prove a point.... seeing what it looks like (versus what it *should* look like) is invaluable.

yep.

mimicking can seem cruel. but honestly... it immediately gives a missing point of reference. if someone isn't too thin-skinned, that can be very helpful.

i have been mimicked many, many, many times.:cool:

[samina]

The chest muscle tighten and the back muscle lenghten. This pushes the head and everything forward.

yep.

the best thing that has made a difference for me isn't the string pulling the head over the spine thing, or anything along those lines. it's been to a) stop trying to maintain a straight spine along the back, but allow a natural curvature and b) most importantly... rotate the torso up & back, with the feeling of pressing forward. when the torso adjusts forward, up, and back, the head moves back where it naturally wants to rest over the spine. very dramatic change. this reverses that chest-tightening/back-lengthening phenomenon chasphoto mentions above.

when the chest collapses, everything goes to hella in a handbasket...

[samina]

If your partner puts both hands behind his head(like he was going to do a situp) and pushes his head back into his hands, that should work the muscles in his back and neck that need to be strengthened to hold his spine in correct alignment. Once he finds those muscles, and that feeling of pushing his head straight back(not just tilting it, but really moving his entire head), he should be able to work on it during practice without using his hands.

this has helped me as well (doing it to myself), but it doesn't stay on its own. although it's definitely helped & stretched the neck muscles.

the head-forward thing is complicated business. there's a lot of learned muscle memory that makes that happen and shifts alignment over the years. so common...

so unattractive!:rolleyes:

[wooh]

Ask what HE thinks will help him. Does he want reminders? Or will he just resent them?

[samina]

Ask what HE thinks will help him. Does he want reminders? Or will he just resent them?

good point. ask if he *wants* to be beaten up first... :)

[and123]

Can't remember where I read this, but posture can be visibly improved in just a couple of weeks. Perhaps if you put it in that perspective, it's quite an attainable goal and not one that you give up on before you even start (like I wanna lose 100 pounds! In one month! Yeah right....) Find some posture exercises and ways to check yourself during every day activities (driving, sitting at a desk, etc.) BOTH of you agree to do it for 2 weeks as a partnership-building task so he doesn't feel singled out and picked on. Videotape yourselves now, and 2 weeks from now, if you can. Two weeks is nothing. Seeing and feeling results will encourage you to continue. Like others have said, being a good dancer isn't something you do a few hours a week or only when you step onto the dance floor. You have to think about it constantly at first so that it becomes an unconscious part of you and a way of life.

[samina]

You have to think about it constantly at first so that it becomes an unconscious part of you and a way of life.

definitely.

have been working with the same issue for the last 1-1/2 years+. and i keep noticing subtle changes that continue to evolve...the feel of energy stretching all the way from my feet through the top of my head, subtle shifts in alignment, the way the spine can stretch in a way it didn't before.

working with the skeletal frame is fascinating. and takes time.

[Angel HI]

Many good tips here. Keep in mind that good posture is based upon the individuals' ehight, weight, body type, etc. However, one constant is that good posture in general, and especially for dancers, is first correct body alignment. Since kindergarten, we have been told that this was relative to standing against a wall with the heels, buttocks, shoulders, and head pressed against it. Now, we know that we should employ what we call in dance CPA...Corrective Posture Arc. This is to assume the kindergarten posture, then move the body, in a straightened and upright line, over the centers of the feet...the arches. This, maintaining an inward tuck of the hips; upward pressure of the neck; and, backward pressure of the head is good posture.

[samina]

I disagree with the endlessly heard buttocks-tuck advice. My posture improved and the tension in my body diminished only when I stopped doing that.

I will tuck butt and tip pelvis as part of out-breath breathing, but on a relaxed in-breath, my hips come back to a soft more neutral position, and this works best for me to allow the spine to be in its naturally curve state. Same with straightening the rest of it...I will stretch and straighten it on the out-breath, pressing the lumbar back and the small of the neck...but it goes back to a natural relaxed curve, the way the spine *wants* to be when neutral.

Head *not* jutting forward, tho. :)

[dancerman]

My partner has a really bad posture problem in both standard and latin. He doesn't have scoliosis or anything--when he lifts himself up and elongates his spine, it looks great. I've been trying a variety of ways to get him to correct this bad habit, including positive and negative reinforcement. I've tried complimenting him, collecting change from him whenever I spot a posture problem (seriously, don't make fun of me), refusing to dance with him if he doesn't "present" himself, etc. I know it's something he has to really actively change by himself, but are there any tips anyone has for dealing with this?

I personally have terrible posture, to the point that it has ended up with me at a chiropractors office for weeks to fix the resulting problems.
And Larinda is absolutely correct we have had a lifetime to screw it up, and an hour lesson here and there doesn't work.
It was actually recommended to me by the Chiropracter to work for a short period with a personal trainer. I did a session with one at my gym last week, and my God he kicked my butt. I signed up for 4 weeks of sessions with him because he focused my whole workout on posture and alignment. I'm talking from lifting and lowering small medicine balls to light weights, while being in my "perfect posture zone". Every excercise was focused on correcting the deficiency. When I am finished the 4 weeks I will have a program set up by him tailored to my needs.

Second, buy him a dance frame tool. They are not that expensive ($125 or so) and they can be used any time. When I was preparing last year for a comp I used one whenever possible leading up to the comp. I sat watching tv wearing it. I would walk through doorways in my apartment wearing it (great for contra body movements CBMP). The comp was the first time I felt I was not a turtle and was actually looking up instead of checking my partners feet. They are not a crutch, they are a muscle memory device. We have video clips on our site that give a lot of details from professionals and coaches.
I am not trying to solicit for my site. I don't care where you get one but these videos will really tell you what they can do and how they actually work. The final thing is owning one is good because I guarantee this is a habit that returns at different stages of our dancing. When it does he can pull it back out of the closet and re-learn what has been forgotten. They are also unisex.
Sorry for the long post. Just a lot to say and am trying to use some of my frequent writer miles up.
:rolleyes:

[White Chacha]

Has anyone heard of/tried rolfing in the context of improving posture?

[dancepro]

Yes: be patient with your partner, focus on correcting YOUR problems, and let your coach or teacher correct HIS. Posture takes years to develop to where it is consistent. Give him time. Negative reinforcement rarely works, and when it does, it MUST be from a someone on a much higher level who he respects in that way. You are PARTNERS, and you should treat him with respect and dignity. Taking his money and refusing to dance with him is not a healthy partnership, and he will never gain confidence that way, as 50% of good posture is purely psychological. When you do these foolish things, you are hurting him and yourself.

I totally agree with Josh.

I will give a couple of sentences that my teacher use to say often.

1. Don't expect anything from your partner, if you get anything take it as a bonus.
2. Don't wait for your partner to be perfect, because it may or may never happen.
3. If you are feeling or seeing your partner, you are not focused on the only one you can change; namely yourself
4. Nobody does a mistake on purpose, if they knew it was wrong, they wouldn't have done it.
5. When you work of yourself your partner miraculously improve.

I hope this put you in the right mindset. If your partner wants advise on posture, your partner should pose the question. All the best

Dancepro

[_malakawa_]

OK I have been working on this for "years". While I agree with this statement for most things, NOT for this. The worst thing you can do is let him get away with it. For something like this you have to correct him EVERY time/ ALL the time. Even my partner doesn't tell me OFTEN enough, and when she doesn't I "think" I'm doing great. Believe me, those of us with this "want" to fix it, so it's not a question of wanting to or not wanting to. We just really feel and think like we're standing (dancing) perfectly erect.

here i agree with you. don't let go. push him to fix his posture, because that has influence on you.

he is creating a bad habbit and he need to fix it.

as i said before it is his desicion, but you have to push him.

sometimes you try to be bad, with bad posture and frame, i am sure that he will start to complain that you are heavy, that you don't move fast ....... that tell him that is the same for you when he doesn't keep his posture. :cool:

[Josh]

honestly...for something like this, which is really critical...being too nice isn't going to elicit change. i'm all for some tough love for something like this. it's gonna require some major pattern-interruption and the formulation of a new way of being from the inside out. that can only happen with sheer determination from within... and a reason behind it. give him that reason.:cool:

You're right sam, but the difference is where the correction comes from. Have you ever been in an am/am partnership? When there's a clear distinction in the levels of the partners, such as in a pro/am one, then it's totally appropriate for the pro to correct the student, because it's a student/teacher relationship, and that's the pro's job.

But in an amateur or pro partnership, while the occasional correction about things like this can be appropriate, if done in a relaxed and nice way, there's no room for tough love. The tough love needs to come from someone you hire and pay to give that to you, period.

[Josh]

here i agree with you. don't let go. push him to fix his posture, because that has influence on you.

he is creating a bad habbit and he need to fix it.

as i said before it is his desicion, but you have to push him.

sometimes you try to be bad, with bad posture and frame, i am sure that he will start to complain that you are heavy, that you don't move fast ....... that tell him that is the same for you when he doesn't keep his posture. :cool:

Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading.

As you said malakawa, "he needs to fix it." NOT the other partner. I am speechless at the last paragraph... so, he's giving you a bad feeling, and you should reciprocate that to "show him"?

Wow, it's really not that hard. Get a coach, get exercises to work on, and get the posture on the path to being fixed. In the process of trying to fix something, the above advice will quickly lead to a broken partnership.

[Josh]

OK I have been working on this for "years". While I agree with this statement for most things, NOT for this. The worst thing you can do is let him get away with it. For something like this you have to correct him EVERY time/ ALL the time. Even my partner doesn't tell me OFTEN enough, and when she doesn't I "think" I'm doing great. Believe me, those of us with this "want" to fix it, so it's not a question of wanting to or not wanting to. We just really feel and think like we're standing (dancing) perfectly erect.

You mean you've been working on posture for years? Ditto! :-) While and123 mentioned that improvements can be made in a short period of time, really long lasting improvements do take years, plain and simple (it's the little changes every few weeks that kept me going!!).

It's one thing to point out that your partner is in your space, squeezing your hand too tight, etc., but it's quite another to refuse to dance with him, charge him money, etc., based on this.

[Josh]

I totally agree with Josh.

I will give a couple of sentences that my teacher use to say often.

1. Don't expect anything from your partner, if you get anything take it as a bonus.
2. Don't wait for your partner to be perfect, because it may or may never happen.
3. If you are feeling or seeing your partner, you are not focused on the only one you can change; namely yourself
4. Nobody does a mistake on purpose, if they knew it was wrong, they wouldn't have done it.
5. When you work of yourself your partner miraculously improve.

I hope this put you in the right mindset. If your partner wants advise on posture, your partner should pose the question. All the best

Dancepro

Great advice and finally, a voice of reason! Wish I had done this stuff better on my previous partnership...

[pruthe]

I think there is a danger in partners trying to tell each other what to do. There's a good chance of hurt feelings and arguments on the floor, and one (or both) partner could grow to resent the other. If one feels their partner is deficient in some area, I would recommend discussing this privately with coach first and let coach handle in following lessons. Coach is probably best person to bring up issues such as this and recommend solutions.

[_malakawa_]

Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading.

As you said malakawa, "he needs to fix it." NOT the other partner. I am speechless at the last paragraph... so, he's giving you a bad feeling, and you should reciprocate that to "show him"?

Wow, it's really not that hard. Get a coach, get exercises to work on, and get the posture on the path to being fixed. In the process of trying to fix something, the above advice will quickly lead to a broken partnership.


yes, but if he doesn't understand how his bad posture makes his partner bad, than it is a problem of a couple.

i tried the same thing with my partner. he realized that he need to change his posture.

i dance international style, so maybe i am more hard when it comes to practice or maybe we, whome are from Europe have different and more discipline practices.

[_malakawa_]

I think there is a danger in partners trying to tell each other what to do. There's a good chance of hurt feelings and arguments on the floor, and one (or both) partner could grow to resent the other. If one feels their partner is deficient in some area, I would recommend discussing this privately with coach first and let coach handle in following lessons. Coach is probably best person to bring up issues such as this and recommend solutions.


hm, that depends.

it can be also very helpful.

[biggestbox]

Yikes I wouldn't like to have some of these partners. You can mention something that your partner already knows and work on individual elements for a portion of the practice, but you can't teach your partner anything. And you shouldn't be upset if your partner can't do something that he/she isn't able to do (posture included).

Heres an example, everyone on this forum would laugh at me if I said I keep nagging my partner b/c she can't do 5 spins on one leg. i can do 5 spins so my partner should be able as well, right? it is very easy, take a balance and start spotting. now here's the funny part, learning good posture is harder than learning to turn 5 times. Think about that!

I also find it ironic how all the women complain about not finding partners, and getting men to dance, while this thread is going on.

[and123]

hm, that depends.

it can be also very helpful.

Yes, it does depend. It's completely different if your partner gets irked when you point out an issue with technique or execution versus if he specifically says "Please let me know when I'm doing this! I want to know!" Some are very open to corrections and advice from peers, and some will only listen to a coach. And some won't listen to ANYone :rolleyes:.

[and123]

I also find it ironic how all the women complain about not finding partners, and getting men to dance, while this thread is going on.

Nope. Just because women have a hard time finding partners doesn't mean that they should settle for someone who is lazy, disrespectful, and unwilling to work or sacrifice to achieve a goal. BTDT. I'm very patient and will work with someone for some time before calling it quits, but eventually you reach a point where you know the partnership is one-sided or going nowhere, and you have to search anew.

[pruthe]

...
i dance international style, so maybe i am more hard when it comes to practice or maybe we, whome are from Europe have different and more discipline practices.

My teachers were east european champions, dance international style, are very disciplined (as I think you are), and told me what I said in my previous post.

[_malakawa_]

Yes, it does depend. It's completely different if your partner gets irked when you point out an issue with technique or execution versus if he specifically says "Please let me know when I'm doing this! I want to know!" Some are very open to corrections and advice from peers, and some will only listen to a coach. And some won't listen to ANYone :rolleyes:.

here it is a little bit different if you are dancing pro/am, so you change partner more often.

in inter. style you have one partner and you practice with him. on the dance floor it is not just you, it is you and your partner.

i wouldn't dance with my partner 12 years together if i would be sensitive and reacte every time he said me that i do something wrong. (i'm not sure if i wrote this sentence correctly, but i hope you understand).


it is a partnership dancing, not one person dancing.


My teachers are east european champions, dance international style, are very disciplined (as I think you are), and told me what I said in my previous post.

i am not from eastern europe, but middle europe, and yes, i am very disciplined.

[_malakawa_]

Nope. Just because women have a hard time finding partners doesn't mean that they should settle for someone who is lazy, disrespectful, and unwilling to work or sacrifice to achieve a goal. BTDT. I'm very patient and will work with someone for some time before calling it quits, but eventually you reach a point where you know the partnership is one-sided or going nowhere, and you have to search anew.


this is good.

[fascination]

Nope. Just because women have a hard time finding partners doesn't mean that they should settle for someone who is lazy, disrespectful, and unwilling to work or sacrifice to achieve a goal. BTDT. I'm very patient and will work with someone for some time before calling it quits, but eventually you reach a point where you know the partnership is one-sided or going nowhere, and you have to search anew.
:notworth::notworth::notworth:

[samina]

You're right sam, but the difference is where the correction comes from. Have you ever been in an am/am partnership? When there's a clear distinction in the levels of the partners, such as in a pro/am one, then it's totally appropriate for the pro to correct the student, because it's a student/teacher relationship, and that's the pro's job.

But in an amateur or pro partnership, while the occasional correction about things like this can be appropriate, if done in a relaxed and nice way, there's no room for tough love. The tough love needs to come from someone you hire and pay to give that to you, period.

yes, that makes sense. but see...if i were relapsing and not aware, and my partner could see, i'd like to know. i'd like that feedback. not once or twice a week for 45 minutes at a time.

so in the end, it probly gets down to wooh's counsel... discuss and find out what is acceptable to the individual.

[samina]

Nope. Just because women have a hard time finding partners doesn't mean that they should settle for someone who is lazy, disrespectful, and unwilling to work or sacrifice to achieve a goal. BTDT. I'm very patient and will work with someone for some time before calling it quits, but eventually you reach a point where you know the partnership is one-sided or going nowhere, and you have to search anew.

yes, ditto here.

two people have to have some kind of compatibility on how they set and achieve their goals. and by using the term "tough love" i didn't mean to be abusive or abrasive. dear lord... so not my style. but it takes discrimination & consistent application to evolve any kind of good technique... and i would want to work with someone who cares about that, not who prefers to be loosey-goosey who-cares.

[BasicsFirst]

Yes, and I agree with most everything here.

With 'dancepro's five points, that partners shouldn't tell each other what to do, that yes it IS the PRO's job, and no I don't want my DP to teach me anything. BUT for me and my "posture" I do want my DP to tell me EVERY SINGLE time it collapses on me; I need to be told. Of course both of us know I'm not going have a mental meltdown even upon the tenth said reminder in any given practice.

On an aside I have nothing against the dance frame (I have one myself), but don't expect any miracles.

[Casayoto]

I know this is a little off topic, but I'm amazed at how many people seem to think you can't tell your partner anything about their dancing and can only focus 100% on yourself during practice. In ballroom there is no "just your dancing". It's all about a partnership. If I'm doing something wrong, it affects her. She can't just ignore a problem and try to dance better. I can't afford to go take a lesson every day, but I do practice with my partner almost every day. There are things that I pick up better than my partner or have heard more often, and vice versa. If I just stood there while she was doing something that needed to be fixed and let her keep reinforcing bad habits, instead of reminding her of what we had learned in a lesson and helping, I'd be doing a disservice to her and me. If she saw that my shoulders and head were forward, and didn't remind me to fix my posture, she would be hindering both of us. You obviously have to be tactful and considerate when correcting your partner, but your partner sees you dance more than anyone else. What a waste it would be not to use their feedback as a resource.

[fascination]

the art of diplomacy is something that people need to learn to cultivate once again...there is a way to say something(and say it only once)...ie..."I feel on this feather that I can't elongate my side as much as I think the coach would like, because i am not feeling you bringing your left side through...maybe you are..but I am not feeling it as strongly as I was on the coaching..." now anyone who has an issue with that comment is just being crabby...

[Some guy]

Lol!!!

[wooh]

It comes down to this. There's mentioning to your partner something that they are doing that affects the partnership. Then there's harping on it without their consent. If they want you to, that's one thing. But otherwise, you're being a nag and not very pleasant to dance with. And just because they have flaws that are difficult to fix (and don't want "tough love" from their PARTNER) doesn't make them "lazy" or "unwilling to work" or whatever it was that a woman shouldn't have to settle for. It just makes them a work in progress, as we all are.

[_malakawa_]

I know this is a little off topic, but I'm amazed at how many people seem to think you can't tell your partner anything about their dancing and can only focus 100% on yourself during practice. In ballroom there is no "just your dancing". It's all about a partnership. If I'm doing something wrong, it affects her. She can't just ignore a problem and try to dance better. I can't afford to go take a lesson every day, but I do practice with my partner almost every day. There are things that I pick up better than my partner or have heard more often, and vice versa. If I just stood there while she was doing something that needed to be fixed and let her keep reinforcing bad habits, instead of reminding her of what we had learned in a lesson and helping, I'd be doing a disservice to her and me. If she saw that my shoulders and head were forward, and didn't remind me to fix my posture, she would be hindering both of us. You obviously have to be tactful and considerate when correcting your partner, but your partner sees you dance more than anyone else. What a waste it would be not to use their feedback as a resource.


:notworth::notworth::notworth:


the art of diplomacy is something that people need to learn to cultivate once again...there is a way to say something(and say it only once)...ie..."I feel on this feather that I can't elongate my side as much as I think the coach would like, because i am not feeling you bringing your left side through...maybe you are..but I am not feeling it as strongly as I was on the coaching..." now anyone who has an issue with that comment is just being crabby...



truth. ;) important is how you say some things.

[samina]

sometimes it's even possible to be candid, straight-forward, AND gentle and sensitive at the same time. you just need two candid, straight-forward, gentle, and sensitive creatures who are in a relationship with common values. it doesn't have to be so much work and involve so much strategy and angst...IME.

[and123]

It just makes them a work in progress, as we all are.

Only if they're willing to work to fix it, and yes, these things can take time. Otherwise.... see ya. If they don't care and/or don't want to change for the betterment of the partnership, the partnership is doomed.

[fascination]

sometimes it's even possible to be candid, straight-forward, AND gentle and sensitive at the same time. you just need two candid, straight-forward, gentle, and sensitive creatures who are in a relationship with common values. it doesn't have to be so much work and involve so much strategy and angst...IME.
lol...sure...but ya gotta find those 2 first;)

[wooh]

Only if they're willing to work to fix it, and yes, these things can take time. Otherwise.... see ya. If they don't care and/or don't want to change for the betterment of the partnership, the partnership is doomed.

Just because they don't want their partner harping on them all the time about it, doesn't mean they don't want to work to fix it.

[samina]

lol...sure...but ya gotta find those 2 first;)

well, yah... that's the trick, lol.

i guess be the one and like attracts like? :)

[and123]

Just because they don't want their partner harping on them all the time about it, doesn't mean they don't want to work to fix it.

Yes, but I'm referring to those who DON'T fix it, whether they get harped on or not. Absolutely, no one wants to be picked on all the time. Agreed. Dang, partnerships seem more complicated than marriages sometimes....

[NielsenE]

Seems like everyone is working in posture, I know its my major theme for the next quarter year or longer. Looking forward to seeing what drills/exercises my teacher suggests tonight (when we kick off this theme having watched the video on monday from my recent competition)...

But I know one of the first things I need to figure out is why I carry myself so much worse in Rhythm than in Smooth.... My smooth posture isn't perfect, but it doesn't seem to be offensive to the eye. In Rhythm though, ick, ick, ick...... Seems like I get a very exaggerated lower back curve, so that my stomach always looks like its bulgin' out, even when its not. And it results in a very odd line/look from the neck to stomach along the front of the body -- seems to create an illusion of an abnormal taper of the chest to neck.

I've been told to elongate the back, and shift the chest slightly forward (while still collapsing the floating ribs in/down) At times I can get it and have it feel right, other times not so much... Been trying to keep the posture throughout the day when walking to work, or sitting at a desk, but without mirrors its hard to tell sometimes if I'm doing it right or not....

[Some guy]

I'm guessing the partner in question here is probably aware of his posture issues and would like to fix them, if only he knew how. The trick is finding someone that can help.

Samina offered some good advice, advice that doesn't only fix the posture problem, but also helps with the dancing. If the two don't go hand in hand, then it's detrimental to the dancing and all the more frustrating for the poor soul trying to do one set of actions for posture and the other set for dance.

Terrible memories of top U.S. renowned dancers who were my coaches at the time trying to get me to perform "actions" to fix my posture came rushing to my head! Problem was, those actions were a separate set of actions involved in "dancing". I had to do one set of actions to dance, and another set of actions to keep my posture. These two sets of actions weren't good bed fellows and one set would always dominate, rendering the other set dormant.

A few years ago the world #2 ranked male pro was visiting a city near me and I drove down with my partner for a lesson. I warmed up well, practiced looking great when taking hold, and when it was time for my lesson I confidently took hold with my partner. I checked myself in the mirrors and couldn't help but admit that I looked great! I was doing all the "posture" "actions" perfectly. Problem was, I knew I couldn't do any of those actions once I started dancing. Here's the interesting part: before I even took my first step the visiting coach came up to me, walked around me very intently and asked, "how on earth are you going to dance like that?". He didn't even let me show him a prep step. He dismantled everything I was doing and gave me ONE thing to think about. One thing that automatically gave me a terrific frame, made my partner feel great, gave me plenty of freedom to dance, and as a bonus, eliminated any posture issues I had.

It seemed silly at the time that he was able to do all this in a few seconds, that something so simple could create such a huge ripple effect throughout my whole body. Of course, I had to now go back and break all my old habits, but at least I knew I had something functional to work on: not only did everything work great when I did it, I noticed that all the good dancers (including my frustrated coaches back home) were doing it without even knowing that they were doing it.

Also, I might be starting a point of contention here, but in my experience natural good posture is not a pre-requisite for good posture in dance. I've seen too many renowned dancers with horrible "natural" posture who completely transform when they take hold and dance.

As some of the folks on this board have witnessed, poor souls, I tend to challenge the length of the Lord of the Rings trilogy when trying to explain things that were demonstrated to me: so I'll refrain from describing it here. :) PM me and I'll be willing to share my two cents.

[elegance]

Loved dancepro's points. I guess it's individual whether we want to be nagged or not (once we're aware of the problem). I don't like it. It takes a long time to repattern your posture and that's a lot of nagging. Some people may not realize the extent that you will have to work on it though, and that can take time.
Posture has been a problem for me, due to poor core strength and a lifetime of bad habits, which could not be improved by reminding myself during dancing or daily life (since I just didn't have the tools) but by strengthening the muscles and learning how to use them correctly. 1) Rolfing and 2) yoga/pilates (OFTEN) helped the problem.

[samina]

the best thing that has made a difference for me isn't the string pulling the head over the spine thing, or anything along those lines. it's been to a) stop trying to maintain a straight spine along the back, but allow a natural curvature and b) most importantly... rotate the torso up & back, with the feeling of pressing forward. when the torso adjusts forward, up, and back, the head moves back where it naturally wants to rest over the spine. very dramatic change. this reverses that chest-tightening/back-lengthening phenomenon chasphoto mentions above.

when the chest collapses, everything goes to hella in a handbasket...

(yes, i know i'm quoting myself...:cool:)

i just wanted to add that one aid for this spine-lengthening, bringing-head-over-spine work that my breathplay work suggests feels very helpful:

on your out-breath, draw you navel to you center, imagine your spine lengthening, and simultaneously feel your shoulders drawn down and your ears drawn upwards. the chin is slightly tucked in, definitely not lifted. the ear thing is a neat sensation. had never visualized that particular piece before.

relax everything on the in-breath.

[Some guy]

I like the "ear" thing!

[_malakawa_]

I totally agree with Josh.

I will give a couple of sentences that my teacher use to say often.

1. Don't expect anything from your partner, if you get anything take it as a bonus.
2. Don't wait for your partner to be perfect, because it may or may never happen.
3. If you are feeling or seeing your partner, you are not focused on the only one you can change; namely yourself
4. Nobody does a mistake on purpose, if they knew it was wrong, they wouldn't have done it.
5. When you work of yourself your partner miraculously improve.

I hope this put you in the right mindset. If your partner wants advise on posture, your partner should pose the question. All the best

Dancepro

i don't agree with some of things you wrote.

1. i expect from my partner to be my partner, because we are a dance couple. there is leading and following, expression .......

2. with this i agree, no body is perfect, but every time we practice we learn something new.

3. to create a story on the dance floor you need to be able to see and feel your partner and the audience. and yes, you can change your mistakes, but you can help your partner also.

4. this is truth. but i expect from my partner to tell me if i don't realize by myself.

5. yes and no. no matter how good you are, if your partner don't work on himself too, all partnership is bad.

if you want more explanation, pm me.

[dancerman]

Yes, and I agree with most everything here.

With 'dancepro's five points, that partners shouldn't tell each other what to do, that yes it IS the PRO's job, and no I don't want my DP to teach me anything. BUT for me and my "posture" I do want my DP to tell me EVERY SINGLE time it collapses on me; I need to be told. Of course both of us know I'm not going have a mental meltdown even upon the tenth said reminder in any given practice.

On an aside I have nothing against the dance frame (I have one myself), but don't expect any miracles.

I'll catch up on the rest of the thread but I want to post first on something I said earlier.
When I mentioned about buying someone a dance frame, or suggesting what they need to help getting their posture problem fixed as I did I said it totally out of the intended context.
I want to emphasize that I was suggesting solutions for the person who is looking for them, not their partner to do that for them.
In fact I think that, as I think others in this thread believe, it is not my job, obligation, or right to "fix" anyone else's dancing. That is the job of the professional!!! Unless I am asked for help in resolving it, all I can succeed in doing by interfering is create animosity and discomfort.
So I hope anyone who read it understands my post was a reflection on what worked for me when I was looking for a solution.
Many apologies.

Finally, the dance frame, I agree, will not preform miracles. It will, however, provide a baseline of where your frame should be. That can be even more enhanced if the tool is tried out in the prescence of your instructor who will be able to show you where your frame should be when using it. I know that because I have actually danced steps with my teacher while wearing the device to get the feel of the position. For me it helped. The frame is used to find the proper points, not to lean on it.

[chica latina]

I would suggest to maybe some days say: "why dont you focus only in your posture and practice some basic stuff", so that he can just concentrate in that and hopefully in other days get used to think about it and correct himself while you work on something else.
It could get very frustrating for him if the partner brings it up every practice since I'm sure is not the only thing he's trying to learn or fix and as many have commented......it takes a lot of time to break a bad habit.

[madmaximus]

I totally agree with Josh.

I will give a couple of sentences that my teacher use to say often.

1. Don't expect anything from your partner, if you get anything take it as a bonus.
2. Don't wait for your partner to be perfect, because it may or may never happen.
3. If you are feeling or seeing your partner, you are not focused on the only one you can change; namely yourself
4. Nobody does a mistake on purpose, if they knew it was wrong, they wouldn't have done it.
5. When you work of yourself your partner miraculously improve.

I hope this put you in the right mindset. If your partner wants advise on posture, your partner should pose the question. All the best

Dancepro

Often the simplest things hold true.

Nice.





m

[Josh]

i dance international style, so maybe i am more hard when it comes to practice or maybe we, whome are from Europe have different and more discipline practices.

lol, so do I and many others, and it's definitely not the dance style. Maybe the fact that you're from Europe makes your approach different, as I had a lovely Russian coach the other day punch me in the stomach to get me to do something, and it was all in good fun. But what you're describing is not a matter of being more disciplined, it's the approach you take.

[Josh]

It comes down to this. There's mentioning to your partner something that they are doing that affects the partnership. Then there's harping on it without their consent. If they want you to, that's one thing. But otherwise, you're being a nag and not very pleasant to dance with. And just because they have flaws that are difficult to fix (and don't want "tough love" from their PARTNER) doesn't make them "lazy" or "unwilling to work" or whatever it was that a woman shouldn't have to settle for. It just makes them a work in progress, as we all are.

Nice!

If your partner has not made improvement in a particular aspect of his/her dancing over, say, several months, then you have at least two options:

1) Get extra/different coaching to fix the problem
2) Get a new partner

I'm not saying we should be hyper-sensitive, I'm saying that we should be courteous. Of course if your partner is hurting you or doing something that just feels BAD, this should be something you should mention. But listen to this:

BUT for me and my "posture" I do want my DP to tell me EVERY SINGLE time it collapses on me; I need to be told.

Think about it, how is your partner going to tell you every single time, when she herself (or he) is working on similar things? I have enough to think about myself so that if my partner doesn't feel right, I may mention it, but I'm not going to harp on it. And I certainly can't multitask that well to think about all my corrections I've been given as well as fix hers.

[Josh]

Nope. Just because women have a hard time finding partners doesn't mean that they should settle for someone who is lazy, disrespectful, and unwilling to work or sacrifice to achieve a goal. BTDT. I'm very patient and will work with someone for some time before calling it quits, but eventually you reach a point where you know the partnership is one-sided or going nowhere, and you have to search anew.

This is a very valid point and123, and I have been there (sort of am there right now!). You defintely want someone who is as dedicated and focused as you are, and if not, there will be a low energy in the partnership.

[Josh]

yes, that makes sense. but see...if i were relapsing and not aware, and my partner could see, i'd like to know. i'd like that feedback. not once or twice a week for 45 minutes at a time.

Well, right now you think that, and again, if it's said with respect and mentioned for you to work with, then I'm sure it would be cool.

But if you haven't been in this situation where you're spending at a minimum of 15 to a max of 30 or 40 hours a week with someone on the floor, practicing, then what you're asking for here will get old VERY quickly. When you work with your instructor for a few hours, you take every correction from him as a golden nugget of wisdom to work with, and rightly so! But when you're with an "equivalent" partner for 30 hours in a week, you quickly begin to see his/her flaws, especially since the level of dancing is similar. They become more human dancers. This is the point where too much advice from someone on your own level becomes unwelcome. Unknowingly, you begin to look for things in your partner's dancing to fix, and so you spend time focusing on your partner's problems. So instead of two dancers working on themselves to create a better partnership, you can become two dancers working on each other, and you can't change each other.

I'm sure dancepro can relate to this type of sequence of events either through her own dancing or what she has seen in coaching couples. If you haven't been there it's hard to imagine that you could get caught up in this, but even the most well-meaning and nice people can let this happen.

[samina]

But if you haven't been in this situation where you're spending at a minimum of 15 to a max of 30 or 40 hours a week with someone on the floor, practicing, then what you're asking for here will get old VERY quickly.

well, yes, of course... i don't mean someone should be a machine that beeps like an alarm everytime something goes wrong, lol.:rolleyes:

look, all this stuff has to be worked out, with communication & sensitivity. there's wisdom in knowing when to let something ride and when to call attention. requires being in a caring relationship with each other. shut up when it's not productive. focus on yourself most of the time. but also maybe come up with little code words or gestures for when something desired is slipping... that's done all the time, IME.

these lists people are sharing here only go so far. "nice" and "working only on oneself" have their place, but there are other shades that round things out. that's just the lay of the land with any shared endeavor...

[samina]

and to add...

sometimes one is going to say or hear the wrong thing at the wrong time. that's life. my advice... make a choice before that occurs to just ride with it, to not fly off the handle, to leave ego at the door. who cares? move on...

couples get so volatile on the floor. crikey...

[fascination]

well, yes, of course... i don't mean someone should be a machine that beeps like an alarm everytime something goes wrong, lol.:rolleyes:

look, all this stuff has to be worked out, with communication & sensitivity. there's wisdom in knowing when to let something ride and when to call attention. requires being in a caring relationship with each other. shut up when it's not productive. focus on yourself most of the time. but also maybe come up with little code words or gestures for when something desired is slipping... that's done all the time, IME.

these lists people are sharing here only go so far. "nice" and "working only on oneself" have their place, but there are other shades that round things out. that's just the lay of the land with any shared endeavor...sure sam...but unless you are two very sedate people...having spent 10 hours a week with the same person with very high goals is tough regardless of how mature and caring the two people are...if they are also working out to be fit and watching what they eat and have alot of history with each other...well...stuff happens...not that it can't be overcome...but given fatigue and stress, it's gonna get dicey from time to time, IME

[samina]

but given fatigue and stress, it's gonna get dicey from time to time, IME

yep, that's a given.

[_malakawa_]

lol, so do I and many others, and it's definitely not the dance style. Maybe the fact that you're from Europe makes your approach different, as I had a lovely Russian coach the other day punch me in the stomach to get me to do something, and it was all in good fun. But what you're describing is not a matter of being more disciplined, it's the approach you take.


yes, that to.

but teacher from europe are much harder than in here. ( when i was 10 tears old, a had a private lesson with one teacher from london. he said to me twice that i need to correct my feet, i didn't and third time he step on my feet with a heel. after that i never had problem with my feet. :cool:)

[cornutt]

It comes down to this. There's mentioning to your partner something that they are doing that affects the partnership. Then there's harping on it without their consent. If they want you to, that's one thing. But otherwise, you're being a nag and not very pleasant to dance with.


One thing that I see a lot of (a lot more than I should) is that one person in the partnership decides that they are their partner's coach. (And I'm not talking about pro-am partnerships here.) I think this happens a lot when one partner is more advanced than the other. It often gets to the point where the "non-coaching" partner is subject to a constant litany of corrections and complaints as they dance, every time they dance. And, if the "non-coaching" partner dares to voice an opinion about something, they get snapped at: "You don't know anything! I'm way more advanced than you, so keep your stupid opinions to yourself!" I see this happen with both men and women.

[_malakawa_]

One thing that I see a lot of (a lot more than I should) is that one person in the partnership decides that they are their partner's coach. (And I'm not talking about pro-am partnerships here.) I think this happens a lot when one partner is more advanced than the other. It often gets to the point where the "non-coaching" partner is subject to a constant litany of corrections and complaints as they dance, every time they dance. And, if the "non-coaching" partner dares to voice an opinion about something, they get snapped at: "You don't know anything! I'm way more advanced than you, so keep your stupid opinions to yourself!" I see this happen with both men and women.


this is very rude.:(:???:

[and123]

Yes, but it happens. Some people think they already know everything. Woe to the person who disagrees with them....:rolleyes:

[fascination]

yep...I see alot of this as well

[LatinDancer006]

I'm in a partnership similar to the one Cornutt describe. Although, I do bite my tongue when I become aware that I am heading towards that direction. It also helps that I know DP is competitive and wants to do well and that we both know the partnership is short term as we only partnered up to do one competition. But as we have been practicing differences in skill/phsyical ability (some more significant than others) started to emerge. DP is about one and a half age category older than me so DP can not drive out as far as I can, DP has weak frame, and difficulty with maintaining balance at certain parts. I've introduced a couple strenghtening exercise/drills to DP and use them to warm up before every practice. It helps a little, but it's a slow and frustrating process.

I think when you are in an uneven partnership, you have to make a judegement call on whether if your partner can overcome their weaknesses, how long it will take, and can to tolerate that for that long. If you don't think your DP is capable of improving, you may have to call it quits, after all it's like a business relationship not a personal one, right?

[samina]

yep...I see alot of this as well

what silliness

[fascination]

actually, it makes me glad to be pro/am...I KNOW it's my fault...no one has to tell me that...so we can just get on with paying him to show me what to practice to get better.....would not want to debate it if it was questionable...

[_malakawa_]

Yes, but it happens. Some people think they already know everything. Woe to the person who disagrees with them....:rolleyes:


and that is sad. :-(

[madmaximus]

...If you don't think your DP is capable of improving, you may have to call it quits, after all it's like a business relationship not a personal one, right?

Not to make too fine a point of it, but a GOOD business relationship IS also a personal one (that's what makes it a good one).

And IMO so should a good dance partnership be too.





m

[Josh]

well said max -- a dance partnership certainly would fall under the category of a personal relationship in the estimation of most people...

[dancerman]

well said max -- a dance partnership certainly would fall under the category of a personal relationship in the estimation of most people...
Respect, respect, respect.
Foundation of relationships.........

[_malakawa_]

Not to make too fine a point of it, but a GOOD business relationship IS also a personal one (that's what makes it a good one).

And IMO so should a good dance partnership be too.

m

it depends how personal. ;)

[fascination]

yep...respect is really all that is neccessary IMO...but it is a biggie

[_malakawa_]

yep...respect is really all that is neccessary IMO...but it is a biggie

respect and trust.

;)

[fascination]

well there really is no respect if there isn't trust...

[_malakawa_]

well there really is no respect if there isn't trust...

truth.

let's see how will go with my new partner. with my first and last partner a danced 12 years.

i'm just courious how it will be now. this is the first time that i changed partner.

[pruthe]

Best of luck with your new partnership.

[dancerman]

respect and trust.

;)

For sure.

[_malakawa_]

Best of luck with your new partnership.

thanks. ;)

[J4cki3]

I used to have ( still do) that problem... I found out it was because I get too excited sometimes, and dance ALOT ( too much ) from the body. One should have back action, but it should be CONTROLED. Does he dance like Vescovo? If so, tell him that you love his energy, but he needs to look "cool n in control" of that energy. Oh yeah.. maybe you can even get him to look up, over ur head during practice, that kinda helped me correct my posture.

[_malakawa_]

I used to have ( still do) that problem... I found out it was because I get too excited sometimes, and dance ALOT ( too much ) from the body. One should have back action, but it should be CONTROLED. Does he dance like Vescovo? If so, tell him that you love his energy, but he needs to look "cool n in control" of that energy. Oh yeah.. maybe you can even get him to look up, over ur head during practice, that kinda helped me correct my posture.


sometimes when i watch them (melinda and maurizio) i think they should witch places. melinda will be a men. :cool::p

[TAK]

One thing my instructor tried out was to take some tape (like duct tape) and place one end at the back of the guy's shirt collar and the other end at the back of the head where the neck hair is. Make sure the tape is very tight when his head is in the right position. When the head starts to pitch forward, the guy will feel his hair start to tear off. It's really effective until he has no more hair left in that spot.

Just wanted to report that I've tried this a couple times now and it works great for me.

I'm using regular duct tape and it doesn't stay stuck on for very long (maybe 45 mins and then too sweaty! :P ) but it does continuously remind me to keep my head straight. I think that's what's working well for me. Usually when I try to remind myself, I guess I only manage to think about it every minute or so, and then I get distracted by thinking of other things. Actually being reminded every single moment helps a lot!

[Josh]

Re: the duct tape thing on the back of the neck, I've never tried this, I'm curious now... but wouldn't the tape restrict necessary movement of the man's head as it turns left and right? Or are we only talking about a beginner "keep your head up" level, and not incorporating more advanced concepts?

[_malakawa_]

Re: the duct tape thing on the back of the neck, I've never tried this, I'm curious now... but wouldn't the tape restrict necessary movement of the man's head as it turns left and right? Or are we only talking about a beginner "keep your head up" level, and not incorporating more advanced concepts?

it is keep your head up. no matter which level you are if your head is going down. this can be helpful;)

[Josh]

it is keep your head up. no matter which level you are if your head is going down. this can be helpful;)

Up is up, stretching up and left is another, turning the head right is another. "Head up" is important, but it's not the half of it. And while I understand that the position of the head is up always, when the head turns it seems like the tape might be stretched a bit. Anyway, it's all good, I'll just go tape myself later. ;-)

[TAK]

If the tape is on straight, no, it doesn't restrict turning the head side to side. If it is slanted, then it will twist around the spine as you try to turn.

[_malakawa_]

Up is up, stretching up and left is another, turning the head right is another. "Head up" is important, but it's not the half of it. And while I understand that the position of the head is up always, when the head turns it seems like the tape might be stretched a bit. Anyway, it's all good, I'll just go tape myself later. ;-)


:uplaugh:

just be careful.

[Josh]

Ok TAK, thanks...

malakawa, I'll be sure I have someone else in the room so I don't kill myself on accident ;-)

[_malakawa_]

Ok TAK, thanks...

malakawa, I'll be sure I have someone else in the room so I don't kill myself on accident ;-)

can i ask you - you are still competing or not?

[hereKittyKitty]

I've been reading through all of these posts, maybe I missed one, but my initial reaction to reading this is "how is your posture?"

Not to be rude, but I have helped my partner when he is teaching both groups and private lessons, fixing the gentleman's posture to look at least decent. Only to find after they dance with several ladies who don't work on their posture, the gentleman again becomes a mess.

In my early days of dancing standard, my coach was relentless about getting me to "dance under my own head".

So make sure you are dancing under your own head, moving yourself (in respect to the partnership of course)and not weighing your partner down.

Also, maybe he is dancing with someone else when he is not dancing with you and this is when he is creating this bad habit.