Poll: Ballroom and Olympics

[Indiana_Jay]

This poll is inspired by xxtupikxx' "What is ballroom dancing for you? (http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=27245)" poll.

[Laura]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.

[NielsenE]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.

hear hear!

[etp777]

I'm going to give it some thought before I vote for myself. But I know a bunch of pros who really want it in there, and want the olympics here in Chicago in 2016. We were watching olympics Tuesday and kept going on about what it was going to be like in 8 years with olympics here and having ballroom in it. :)

[wooh]

I'm going to give it some thought before I vote for myself. But I know a bunch of pros who really want it in there, and want the olympics here in Chicago in 2016. We were watching olympics Tuesday and kept going on about what it was going to be like in 8 years with olympics here and having ballroom in it. :)

I'm not sure on this, but I think with the process of choosing sports, ballroom is already nixed for 2016. (I'm surprised that city isn't already chosen.)

[wooh]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.

Totally agree. And especially for ballroom since I'd prefer to see the dance half emphasized more than the sport half of dancesport.

[Laura]

I'm not sure on this, but I think with the process of choosing sports, ballroom is already nixed for 2016. (I'm surprised that city isn't already chosen.)
I believe that the host cities are chosen 6 years out.

[etp777]

Wooh, think they're wanting it as exhibition in Chicago, to help push it towards full sport later. One of bigger studios in area, and one who gets called most often by local groups/tv stations for anything ballroom related, so good chance they'd be at least part of any exhibition that used local groups. :)

[cornutt]

I'm ambivalent. One the one hand, it would be a cool thing to see. On the other hand, I'm afraid it would drive ballroom too much towards being a spectator sport (as opposed to a participation sport), and I'd hate to see happen to ballroom what has happened to ice dancing. :rolleyes:

[Laura]

Wooh, think they're wanting it as exhibition in Chicago, to help push it towards full sport later.
The Olympics stopped having "exhibition" sports a few olympiads ago. The program was just getting too big to have demonstration sports in. I think the Olympics before Syndey...so that was 1996...Atlanta?...was the last time there were exhibition sports. Or it might have been Sydney. But definitely starting in Athens they stopped having exhibition sports.

[Purr]

I don't care one way or the other.

[tanya_the_dancer]

I'm ambivalent. One the one hand, it would be a cool thing to see. On the other hand, I'm afraid it would drive ballroom too much towards being a spectator sport (as opposed to a participation sport), and I'd hate to see happen to ballroom what has happened to ice dancing. :rolleyes:

I think the minimum physical ability required to do iceskating is much higher than the minimum physical ability required for dancing. I mean, we can see some really old couples dancing together and they're doing just fine, but they probably won't be able to skate without risking a serious injury. Which is why skating will always be more of a spectator sport.

[chocolatchica]

I'm just saying, if freakin ping pong or "Table Tennis" is in the Olympics why can't dancesport be in the Olympics? Anyone else find this odd????

[LucyDiamond]

I'm ambivalent. One the one hand, it would be a cool thing to see. On the other hand, I'm afraid it would drive ballroom too much towards being a spectator sport (as opposed to a participation sport), and I'd hate to see happen to ballroom what has happened to ice dancing. :rolleyes:
I tend to disagree. Several olympic sports come to mind that are not spectator sports, baseball, softball, swimming, volleyball, etc.

I voted strongly agree. I would love to see the ballroom dancing in the olympics but, it would probably have to be limited to standard and latin since smooth and rhythm are generally not danced outside the US and would give the US to great of an advantage.

[Laura]

Table Tennis is a game with a clear winner or loser based on points scored. I have no problem with it being in the Games. Just like basketball, volleyball (which I find incredibly boring), and badminton.

[LucyDiamond]

I'm just saying, if freakin ping pong or "Table Tennis" is in the Olympics why can't dancesport be in the Olympics? Anyone else find this odd????
yes.

[LucyDiamond]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.
So, you would be in favor of removing gymnastics, diving, and figure skating from the Olympics?

[Laura]

Did I just say that a few posts back? I'm in favor of having all judged sports out, as much as I love some of them. That includes getting rid of dressage (judged) but keeping show jumping (based on time and number of mistakes). Don't know what we'd do about 3-day eventing, since one phase is dressage...interesting question there. Boxing is another interesting question, as it is a combination of judged (guys can win on points) and just smashing someone (clear winner based on physical effort).

[syncopationator]

I answered Agree, but only because of the promotional/marketing benefits of having any sport in the Olympics and on TV. It would raise awareness of the sport to the entire world. From the competitive standpoint, it would be a nightmare to judge. I think you could only do it as in ice skating where you only have one couple on the floor at a time and they would do each dance separately.

[Kitty]

volleyball (which I find incredibly boring)

Incredibly boring? try baseball... (yawn)

[Laura]

I answered Agree, but only because of the promotional/marketing benefits of having any sport in the Olympics and on TV.
Oh yes, just look what it's done for rhythmic gymnastics, modern pentathlon, biathlon, synchronized swimming, and curling in this country.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Cards stacked against Olympic status for bridge (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020112/ai_n9673321)

[wooh]

Oh yes, just look what it's done for rhythmic gymnastics, modern pentathlon, biathlon, synchronized swimming, and curling in this country.

Heck, most any of the sports. The only time anyone cares about swimming is when it's Olympics time. Speed skating, only at Olympics time (or when a speed skater is getting exposure via ballroom dancing.) That means ballroom already has more exposure via other promotions than the Olymmpics would give it. Heck, ballroom promotes the Olympics.

[Laura]

Cards stacked against Olympic status for bridge (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020112/ai_n9673321)
The IOC already said a few years ago that "mental sports" like chess were not going to be added to the games, ever. In light of that, I don't see how bridge could even think it would get in.

[Laura]

Heck, most any of the sports. The only time anyone cares about swimming is when it's Olympics time.
And track & field! I distinctly recall that Nike was running an ad campaign during the 1996 games in Atlanta that talked about how track stars only get notice and respect during Olympic years. It featured Marion Jones (oh, isn't that ironic...she's in jail right now because of the BALCO steroids thing) with the music "Me and Mrs. Jones" playing in the background, saying in a sexy voice about how she don't get no love 'cept in an Olympic year....

[_malakawa_]

it will be nice to see ballroom in OI.

2 laura - last exibition was in sidney.

[Laura]

Incredibly boring? try baseball... (yawn)
That's being eliminated -- this is the last year for it :)

[madmaximus]

Why should ballroom be part of the Olympics?

Validation? Esteem? Marketing?

I don't see why.





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[syncopationator]

Oh yes, just look what it's done for rhythmic gymnastics, modern pentathlon, biathlon, synchronized swimming, and curling in this country.

I sense a bit of sarcasm...

But actually, regardless of their popularity, I would never have heard of any of these sports had it not been for the olympics and probably neether would you.

[BasicsFirst]

Boxing is another interesting question, as it is a combination of judged (guys can win on points) and just smashing someone (clear winner based on physical effort).

I hate "boxing", but as much as I hate it, the judges ARE keeping score... the landing of body blows, head blows, etc. It all happens so fast I can't even try to keep up, AND because some blows could be missed by one, there are several judges (which still brings in the possibility of a fix).

Table tennis I find quite fascinating to watch, what with the players further back from the table by more than a table length itself.

Baseball is out, that's cool. Aside from "judged" sports which I wouldn't miss at all, they could get rid of "shooting". Are you kidding me? Any event where a participant can last over four decades (or something like that) and remain competitive i.e. make the Olympics, I really start to question at that point.

[Laura]

I think the real thing here is that sports exposure in the USA is driven by MONEY. You've got pro sports players who get signed to multi-million dollar contracts playing in multi-million dollar facilities in events broadcast in Prime Time (which the networke paid multiple millions of dollars for the rights to) and for which multi-millions of advertising $$$ come in.

Until someone ponies up the cash for a swimming showdown where you get Michael Phelps, Laszlo Che, and Ian Thorpe (coming out of retirement) to throw down in the pool in a $500,000 match race sponsored by Budweiser or Coors Light, no one is going to pay attention except in an Olympic year.

The Olympics get the status they do in our sports media because they are the world's largest multi-sport event and because they are a tradition carried over from the pre-television days. They're the biggest thing in the US media market in non-football (not soccer, FOOTBALL)/basketball/baseball sports news. If the Olympics were started today, from scratch, I wonder if they would get the attention they do now. I mean, look what happened to the Goodwill Games, and then there are the Pan-American Games which are barely broadcast (were they ever????) and include a few sports that aren't even in the Olympics (like artistic roller skating).

But anyway, it all comes down to what our society values as sport and entertainment. We value "the big three", with professional ice hockey a not-too-distant 4th. Teams of gladiatorial men duking it out for cash with a ball or puck or whatever. For a while figure skating was really big here -- propelled to the forefront by the whole Nancy Kerrigan/Tanya Harding thing -- but that has died WAY back.

In other countries, you turn on the TV and it's football (not football, soccer) and darts. Or Cricket and rugby.

Not every sport can be the biggest, and that's the value of the Olympics, but even with all that said I still don't see the point of having dancesport in the Olympics. Plenty of other sports do quite well in the US without the Olympics: Auto Racing, Golf, Bowling (as a participatory thing).

[Laura]

Aside from "judged" sports which I wouldn't miss at all, they could get rid of "shooting". Are you kidding me? Any event where a participant can last over four decades (or something like that) and remain competitive i.e. make the Olympics, I really start to question at that point.
If we strip it back to any sport that depends on the Olympic motto of "faster, higher, stronger" then yeah, the shooting events (including archery) would be out. But could we keep fencing? I was watching that women's team sabre event earlier and you've got to be FAST for it!

I'm not entirely sure that sailing should be in, either, but I can't come up with a good argument yet as to why.

[reb]

For a while figure skating was really big here -- propelled to the forefront by the whole Nancy Kerrigan/Tanya Harding thing -- but that has died WAY back.


Peggy Fleming? oh that was another era . . . :D

[cornutt]

I think the minimum physical ability required to do iceskating is much higher than the minimum physical ability required for dancing. I mean, we can see some really old couples dancing together and they're doing just fine, but they probably won't be able to skate without risking a serious injury. Which is why skating will always be more of a spectator sport.

The way I worded my original statement, I wound up conflating two ideas that I had intended to be separate. There was the separation between participants and spectators that seems to occur when a sport gets big on TV; that was one idea. But the reference to ice dancing was an implied reference (which nobody seemed to pick up on) to the judging scandal from a couple of Olympics back, which, fairly or not cast all of ice dancing into disrepute. There's also the fact that commercial pressure, brought on by the Olympics, drove ice dancing into a series of rules changes that eventually made it unrecognizable to the audience who had been originally attracted to it -- how many times have you heard an announcer make reference to the fact that Torvill and Dean's iconic "Ravel's Bolero" routine would be illegal under current rules? That put a lot of the audience off of the sport, IHMO.

[cornutt]

Plenty of other sports do quite well in the US without the Olympics: Auto Racing, ...

Funny you should mention that, actually. At the time of the Atlanta Olympics, there was a group putting together a proposal for the IOC to include auto racing in the Olympics. The main thing that stopped it was money; to do all of the different types and classes of racing that everyone wanted, the cost would have been astronomical, and without advertising on the cars, there was no apparent means of paying for it.

[danceronice]

Peggy was the '68 Games!

Yes, skating has problems, though a big one is the overemphasis on ladies' singles. There aren't any Western superstars right now and the people who are winning, while they are HUGE at home (Kim Yu-Na of Korea and Mao Asada of Japan) are not appealing much to a broader audience. Within the sport, though, a lot of it stems from the BLATANT INEPTNESS AND CORRUPTION of the ISU under Speedy Cinquanta. When you have a bad governing body, problems will be had.

I support dance as an Olympic sport--judged sports like skating, diving, dressage, etc are all in there. Saying they should be out because they're subjective is as silly as saying the other nonsubjective sports should be eliminated because they all lead to doping. (Which for the most part they do, but that's as may be.) My hesitation has nothing to do with the nature of the sport, but with the governing bodies. I have no experience dealing with USA Dance. I don't dance amateur and find it unlikely I ever will. But I have plenty with US Figure Skating and USA Equestrian and there is nothing so Byzantine and political as an IOC-member governing body.

ETA: it's not so much "Bolero" would be against the rules now as the technical degree of difficulty would be insufficient. There are some ELEMENTS that are now illegal (you may not kneel or lay on the ice at any point in your program and that rule was put in place precisely because after T&D did it, EVERYONE started doing it) but overall, the program doesn't contain enough difficult steps. Which is arguably fine--I mean, yes, it's impressive when you have someone who can do quad twizzles in both directions without changing feet, but what does it have to do with the music?

[Warren J. Dew]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.

Agreed.

And especially for ballroom since I'd prefer to see the dance half emphasized more than the sport half of dancesport.

Agreed.

I also prefer that Ballroom have more of a participatory emphasis than a spectator emphasis. Between the two, being able to dance in ballroom competitions is more important than being able to watch them.

[jwlinson]

The IOC already said a few years ago that "mental sports" like chess were not going to be added to the games, ever. In light of that, I don't see how bridge could even think it would get in.

There goes my hopes of ever getting a gold medal in "synchronized checkmating."

[Josh]

I have immensely enjoyed watching the olympics. The main reason is to see how champions win, how they lose, and the peaceful comingling of such diverse nations... I learn a lot from watching professional athletes, particularly how they handle stress, pressure, and how they exhibit (or don't) mental pressure.

Laura, while badminton and volleyball usually have a clear winner, basketball is quite subjective as referees are used for personal fouls, which greatly affect most every aspect of the game, and baseball is similar, for obvious reasons.

It's interesting what many people consider to be boring and exciting (baseball has had some tough remarks against it despite it being in existence for well over 100 years in america, a testament to its popularity). Most people not involved in dancing would call ballroom dancing an extreme yawner.

[tangotime]

Until someone ponies up the cash for a swimming showdown where you get Michael Phelps, Laszlo Che, and Ian Thorpe (coming out of retirement) to throw down in the pool in a $500,000 match race sponsored by Budweiser or Coors Light, ... snip





Surely Evian or Polan Spring would be more appropriate ? :rolleyes:

Now if you FILLED the pool with beer, there would be more entries at $ 5 a lap.. that they probably wouldnt need any sponsors !

[tangotime]

I mean, yes, it's impressive when you have someone who can do quad twizzles in both directions without changing feet, but what does it have to do with the music?









Ahhhh... salsa anyone ?? :rolleyes:

[danceronice]

Ahhhh... salsa anyone ?? :rolleyes:

Does salsa have similar problems? (I only do salsa at parties and then I'm basically doing mambo on the one, so I know nothing.)

[Josh]

I think TT is referring to how many in the salsa community can do all sorts of fancy moves, but they neither look good doing it, nor do it on time or with connection with the music... (of course, this is not a lot different from other dances)

[tangotime]

Does salsa have similar problems? (I only do salsa at parties and then I'm basically doing mambo on the one, so I know nothing.)




DOES IT !!!!.... There is a strong belief among many social dancers , that the number of consecutive spins one can dance ( men and ladies ) elevates you into the world class level of dancer .:confused:

This is largely driven by congress performers .

[Josh]

Just saw this article, very appropriate for our discussion:

h t t p://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/080813

[NielsenE]

interesting article... though I highly doubt that if ballroom dancing became an Olympic sport it would have audience based (reality-TV) voting as the author seems to imply....

[LucyDiamond]

interesting article... though I highly doubt that if ballroom dancing became an Olympic sport it would have audience based (reality-TV) voting as the author seems to imply....
:shock:

[kayak]

I was part of US Freestyle skiing during the push towards Olympic status. Once the IOC got involved, the entire nature of the sport changed. What was a fun, free floating events suddenly became totally uptight. Take the incredibly uptight nature of dance competition judges already and triple it and you probably have a sense of what it would be like with IOC leadership.

In mogul skiing for example, skiers originally had a whole mogul field below them and had to choose their own fastest line. Once the IOC got hold of the sport, there is now just a single line on each side of the course. It is a totally different sport. Now, it is just slalom racing with bumps instead of gates. The restrictiveness led to the whole Freeride movement.

The other challenge is not all the freestyle events got accepted by the IOC. Has anyone heard of ballet skiing since 1990? So there is a HUGE chance that whole dances would be left out. What do you do when whole dances suddenly get dropped or modified? The end result for each dance wouldn't be Standard or Smooth but some totally different IOC dance.

[danceronice]

Actually my bet would be that American Rhythm and American Smooth would be left out entirely, ditto New Vogue as they're geographically limited at the moment. I can't see them eliminating, say, Paso Doble. (And if they do put Rhythm in please God, keep Salsa, Hustle, WCS and American Samba OUT!)

My biggest fear would be what happened to gymnastics and skating (no, not age limits, I'm fully in favor of if anything RAISING the skating age limit to bar anyone under 17 or 18 ) and that is changing the ordinal based judging to some point-based system. The one thing that might save it is that unlike gymnastics and skating, everyone dances at once. The problem with ordinals in skating was you had to leave room earlier in the night in case someone later skated a fantastic program, but you'd made it mathematically impossible to put them first by giving a high score to an early skater. (Part of the reason Rudy Galindo was able to pull of the biggest upset of all time at '96 Nationals was not only that reigning men's champ Todd Elderige underperformed or that Rudy skated the best long program of his life, but that Rudy went last in the free skate. The judges had no reason to lowball him, and given people were weeping in the aisles literally they probably wouldn't have made it out alive if they had.) While there were problems with that, the new system has made things painfully complicated. Scores require a special computer system, three new officials, and take about ten minutes to process on average. And almost no one understands them, least of all the folks watching at home. Even the skaters won't know until the competition is over what all the numbers mean (they get a protocol sheet afterwards showing how the technical controller graded everything and which judge gave positive or negative grades of execution on particular element.)

And never accept anonymous judging! WORST idea the ISU has ever had--it doesn't stop cheating, it makes it impossible to figure out who was doing it.

[kayak]

Actually my bet would be that American Rhythm and American Smooth would be left out entirely, ditto New Vogue as they're geographically limited at the moment. I can't see them eliminating, say, Paso Doble. (And if they do put Rhythm in please God, keep Salsa, Hustle, WCS and American Samba OUT!)

Between the swing, rhythm, and Salsa pros, you just eliminated most of the dancers people on Dance Forums discuss :)

[White Chacha]

I said "disagree" because, as much as I love gymnastics, diving, and figure skating, I really think it would be better if judged activities were out of the Olympics.

I'm on this bandwagon as well.

[White Chacha]

...I voted strongly agree. I would love to see the ballroom dancing in the olympics but, it would probably have to be limited to standard and latin since smooth and rhythm are generally not danced outside the US and would give the US to great of an advantage.

Have you looked at the family names of the top ranked smooth dancers in the US?