Learning Curves

[Pitt]

At what point in your dancing did you have the steepest learning curve? I am more than two years into my training now and feel that my progress is much faster than in the beginning.

[njdancegirl]

Have heard many say that learning curves happen differently for men/lead and women/followers - women/followers progress quickly right from the start, but in the long term have more difficulty whereas men/leads take longer from the start to experience the steep learning curve.

This holds true for me (a follower) - learning curve was extremely steep in the beginning, definitely first year maybe even two. I ingested tons of information in all dances and all styles which allowed me to go from knowing nothing to knowing quite a bit of information rather quickly. Now that I've got the basic information and have been trying to narrow in on mostly one, maybe two styles at a higher proficiency, the learning curve has flattened out tremendously. Sometimes I feel to the point of flat, though if I really look back over the last year, there has been much progress. Just not as noticeable...

[etp777]

It varies for me. Some things have sped up a lot, like learning new steps or even whole choreographed routines. But then some things, by their very nature, are a lot slower. Like rise and fall. When I only knew 2-3 steps, a change in the timing or tweak of footwork for something in waltz rise and fall didn't take too long to integrate. But now that I know however many elemnts, and all the bronze steps, etc, plus the fact we're delving into tougher and tougher technique, that stuff has slowed way down.

[njdancegirl]

I agree, ETP - certain things are much faster these days (choreography and steps most definitely). But I always think of steps as just that - placement of feet, body, arms, head, etc - it is what happens before and after that is your "dancing". And it is my overall "dancing" (ie. technique) that does not improve at the original intensity.

[fascination]

I think I am in more comfortable space with my own body and what makes sense and how to adjust than I was in the first two and a half years

[cornutt]

I've had three difficult periods. The first was right at the beginning, obviously. The second was about two years in, when I started working on progressing past the "just move your feet in time" stage and really started getting serious about frame, posture, rise&fall, and proper transfer of weight (at the same time that I was also starting to work on some silver steps). The third, and it was the worst one by far, was last year. I absolutely hit the wall. I couldn't do anything right. I nearly quit. My instructor talked me out of it, and we changed a whole bunch of things about the way we did lessons (the biggest one being that DW and I started taking separate lessons). That got me past it, slowly but surely. It took about a year before I really felt comfortable again.

[samina]

My first 4 months I progressed rapidly, was a learning machine and felt and saw the progress rapidly. Then I switched styles, new pro...and went very deep into technique from the beginning with him. I can't say I felt anything but frustration til relatively recently, but progress has kicked in bigtime this year, sort of like compounding critical mass. Learning curve continues steeply because I've added a 2nd style, but there is so much more in my body to work with now. There wasn't anything there before, heh. :)

At the end of this year it'll be 2-1/2 yrs since switching pros. It's now almost 3 yrs since I started dancing.

[BasicsFirst]

In short, the steepest 'tangible' learning curve for us was/(maybe still is), jumping from syllabus Latin to Open material.

Not looking forward to the equivalent in Standard, if it's going to be that tough.

[samina]

In short, the steepest 'tangible' learning curve for us was/(maybe still is), jumping from syllabus Latin to Open material.

Not looking forward to the equivalent in Standard, if it's going to be that tough.
Haven't made that particular shift, but I'm guessing it's harder in latin cuz it's far more independently expressive... (?)

[TAK]

In short, the steepest 'tangible' learning curve for us was/(maybe still is), jumping from syllabus Latin to Open material.

I'm in the middle of that particular shift, and yeah, it's tough. Before we started learning the new material I think I'd kind of hit a plateau. Or at least the curve flattened a lot.

The funny thing is that I think my understanding of the syllabus has actually improved a lot since I started working on open routines. I feel like I can find a lot more places to show expression and dynamicity in the basic steps than I could before. I'm not sure why, because it's not that I didn't know those things were important, but somehow the more challenging material has given me focus.

Like cornutt, I think I have had a few different stages. Things go more easily and smoothly for a while, until it's time to kickstart with a new challenge, and then it gets tough again and the learning curve steepens.

[Laura]

Not looking forward to the equivalent in Standard, if it's going to be that tough.
I think the shift from Syllabus to Open in Standard is pretty straightforward. If you're used to dancing Gold Syllabus material in Gold Syllabus competitive events, then all that really changes initially is that you add a few non-syllabus figures and wear a fancier costume. The choreography and presentation can gradually get more involved over time, it's not like you have to toss all your old routines and come out BLAM doing tons of side-by-side stuff with tons of syncopations and crazy lines etc. like you would in Latin.

[madmaximus]

Wanna know the secret to a faster learning curve?

[Oh, I can hear various misgivings out there in the forum as I write this, but...]

[come closer...]


[much closer...]

[shhhh...]



[whispers]:

Understanding what it means (really means) to dance a movement or step ACCURATELY.


Because in dance, everything (particularly learning curves), is all about accuracy.

If you learned the basics of technique (feet, torso, hip positions etc) and mastered them well enough to perform them CONSISTENTLY and ACCURATELY, progress comes much much faster as you get better.

If you go by "feel" (for ex. sensing where to step instead of knowing the geometry of where the foot should land) initially, then you will tend to dance well at first but suffer as you try to learn more.

Put simply, there is no foundation to build accurate movement on--hence the struggle.






m

[Stillharbor]

As a beginner dancer, I felt my learning curve was very steep. I was learning many things and at times I felt slightly overwhelmed trying to remember the names of the different steps. Bronze 2 was a more level learning time, taking the steps I'd learned and adding technique. Now as a Bronze 3, I feel like the learning curve is sweeping up again, but I'm able to associate some of the more complicated steps with the basics. Now I just wish I could remember the names of the steps again. :rolleyes:

[fascination]

more wisdom from max...I am so enjoying the approach of NP..."why did you do that?"....is the common comment...and it is simply his way of checking to see whether or not I know... or he will stop me and say "look in the mirror, what is wrong here?"...and of course I have to dance alone to demonstrate that I do actually know what I am doing...it is making me a much better dancer as is the fact that he is simply not available to me very much so I have to think about what I am doing...much as I would prefer to simply dreamily lilt around ...it is simply no longer an option

[Chiron]

I have a hard time telling where I am on the learning curve at any given point (for all you math geeks, my progress is not a well behaved function so who knows what the derivative will give). I usually have to look backwards about three months to see how I am/was doing. Oddly enough it's times when I feel like I wasn't making any progress that I was making huge strides.

[jwlinson]

Switching teachers gave us the steepest learning curve of all. We were with one for a year, who left, then we switched to the studio owner. We had to adapt to her manner of teaching, which threw us for a loop at first.

Luckily that didn't last much past a few months, and now we're better off for it IMHO.

[fascination]

yep...a new pro can be a pretty steep learning curve...am currently holding on to the safety harness for dear life

[fascination]

nice new avatar btw

[jwlinson]

nice new avatar btw

Thanks. We had an opportunity to get some pics of ourselves this weekend, so I thought I'd share :)

[biggestbox]

i love learning from new coaches especially when their information comes from a different place. In latin and standard there are two or three major schools of thought. As a dancer, it is best to learn all of them and make the choices that work best for you.

Only piece of advice I would give is to take from lots of different people. there is a lot of good standard advise out there, since the style is better developed. Latin changes every 5 years and sometimes it is hard to get the most current technical trends. Sometimes you can even get bad advice.

[mamboqueen]

i love learning from new coaches especially when their information comes from a different place. In latin and standard there are two or three major schools of thought. As a dancer, it is best to learn all of them and make the choices that work best for you.

Only piece of advice I would give is to take from lots of different people. there is a lot of good standard advise out there, since the style is better developed. Latin changes every 5 years and sometimes it is hard to get the most current technical trends. Sometimes you can even get bad advice.

ehhh...not sure I agree with taking from "lots" of different people. I have found that my teacher doesn't really use much rotation at all and I've had lessons with people who use TONS of rotation. As much as I like the way it looks, it's going to look funny, IMO, if we're mismatched on something like that. I'd say to take instruction with lots of people who are of a similar "school". But, that's just my opinion. I am easily confused!

[mamboqueen]

I'm in the middle of that particular shift, and yeah, it's tough. Before we started learning the new material I think I'd kind of hit a plateau. Or at least the curve flattened a lot.

The funny thing is that I think my understanding of the syllabus has actually improved a lot since I started working on open routines. I feel like I can find a lot more places to show expression and dynamicity in the basic steps than I could before. I'm not sure why, because it's not that I didn't know those things were important, but somehow the more challenging material has given me focus.


Totally on board with this, too. Feel like I have learned far more in the 8 months I have been working on open than in the 3 years I worked on syllabus (although I had two teacher changes in there and that probably messed up my progress by several months).

As for the part I bolded, I feel the same way - I think it is because I am dancing so much more over my own feet that some head space has been freed up to focus on expression, working the back, dynamic and interaction with him. Now the arms on the other hand....!!!

[jwlinson]

i love learning from new coaches especially when their information comes from a different place. In latin and standard there are two or three major schools of thought. As a dancer, it is best to learn all of them and make the choices that work best for you.

Only piece of advice I would give is to take from lots of different people. there is a lot of good standard advise out there, since the style is better developed. Latin changes every 5 years and sometimes it is hard to get the most current technical trends. Sometimes you can even get bad advice.

This is one of those things that drives me absolutely friggin nuts. When I learn something, I want to learn it "the right way," and then I find out there are several "right ways." Different ideas, thoughts, etc. that basically are trying to achieve the same or similar result.