Too much dancing for your SO??

[ShyDancer]

I recently got into a rather heated discussion with my non-dancing SO about the amount of time I spend out dancing every week. Its the first time that he has brought this up

I dont feel I am away THAT much...

Monday night about 2-3 hrs at (studio 1)
Tuesdays about 3 hrs (studio 2)
Wed 1 hr (studio 3)

He thinks I should just stay at 1 place, but I feel that being at a few places is maximising the learning experience ...and I think that is just another way of saying that Im away too much :lol:

Anyone else had similar issues with non-dancing SO's??

[tsb]

I dont feel I am away THAT much...

Monday night about 2-3 hrs at (studio 1)
Tuesdays about 3 hrs (studio 2)
Wed 1 hr (studio 3)


hmm. if i read this correctly, that's 2.5 nights just for classes during the week. that could be considered a lot for people who work a regular 40 hour work week, especially if your SO is home during this time. do you also go dancing outside of class?

[MacMoto]

I recently got into a rather heated discussion with my non-dancing SO about the amount of time I spend out dancing every week.
(...)
Anyone else had similar issues with non-dancing SO's??

Yes, I have the same problem (see earlier thread "How often?" (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2165)). I no longer do weekday night classes and concentrate on weekends, but it hasn't made my husband any happier... Problem is, his preferred way of spending evenings (weekdays or weekends) is to watch TV or play computer games -- not exactly my kind of fun. :( I'm afraid I have no helpful advice to offer, just sympathy. Hope you and your SO will do better than us in finding a solution both of you are happy with.

[salsachinita]

I feel for you girls......I've been there.

Communicate, compromise, but never fail to recognise what makes you happy.

Good luck.

[pygmalion]

Amen, salsachnita. Will add more comments later, girls. I've been in that boat as well. :?

[Genesius Redux]

He thinks I should just stay at 1 place, but I feel that being at a few places is maximising the learning experience ...and I think that is just another way of saying that Im away too much :lol:

Anyone else had similar issues with non-dancing SO's??

Why is it always the men who tell the women that they should stay in?

Yes, ShyDancer, you may be off quite a lot if you haven't been away before--but what's preventing dude from coming with you? Is he in leg irons?

Me, I'm doing a show all the time, rehearsals at night, dancing when I can, and I have to have my own time as well. Most of the time I'm in a relationship--that has been a well-known fact of life from the beginning. But I've seen other people--one actress I know, newly married, husband is out of town for weeks on end, and he complains when she's in a show, as she's not home enough. Sheesh!

Chances are, if he's complaining, it's because he feels he wants to be a bit closer--not just because of the nights you're away. So the question really is whether you want to work that closer relationship in. Establish some times to go out together, and set whatever boundaries you feel are valid.

That said, he ought to drag is sorry butt to dance with you--that just makes me mad. I see women in relationships dancing single all the time, and it's hurtful and it's wrong. It's important to you, and he jolly well ought to see that and participate.

Not that I have a strong opinion or anything.

Genesius

[pygmalion]

GR. You crack me up! :lol: :lol:

I agree with your observations, btw. When I was in that position, my SO was out of town on business often, worked late all the time (starting a couple businesses, so that was okay with me), and rarely had to time to be alone together. Yet, when I went out dancing, he complained that I wasn't home.

So I reduced the amount of dancing I did from about five nights a week, to four, then three, then two. And still he complained. Then I realized that what you're saying is true, GR. It wasn't about the dancing, at least for us, GR. There were other issues that had to be resolved. Dancing just became a surrogate for all the other issues.

[peachexploration]

......So I reduced the amount of dancing I did from about five nights a week, to four, then three, then two. And still he complained......

The other side to this? As much as alot of men would not admit, they know when a woman dances, other men are attracted to it. It makes them quite nervous. Insecurity, insecurity, insecurity. As GR says: ......he ought to drag his sorry butt to dance with you... :?

[Genesius Redux]

The other side to this? As much as alot of men would not admit, they know when a woman dances, other men are attracted to it. It makes them quite nervous.

Shoot, Peach, I'm even attracted to your sexy avatar! :wink:

[peachexploration]

Too Funny! :lol: :lol:

[ShyDancer]

Is he in leg irons?


Oh no, his restaraint is far beyond leg iron.......dancing is "gay" you see, no real man would ever be caught dead dancing with beautiful women all night long :?


That said, he ought to drag is sorry butt to dance with you--that just makes me mad. I see women in relationships dancing single all the time, and it's hurtful and it's wrong. It's important to you, and he jolly well ought to see that and participate.

Genesius

I would love for him to see it that way! But dancing is my thing,Golf and basketball are his. I dont really mind that he doesnt want to come along, its more the fact that he complains that I am away.


The other side to this? As much as alot of men would not admit, they know when a woman dances, other men are attracted to it. It makes them quite nervous. Insecurity, insecurity, insecurity.

I dont doubt that this has something to do with it, If only he could come and experience dancing just once, he would realise that it all stays on the floor...with a hundred other people!



I dont think our relationship needs any work though, I think he is just feeling a little lonely lately, his family has recently moved away, and he has been having trouble with some of his staff at work, I think he just wants someone to complain to and pity him when he gets home :lol: :lol:

[ShyDancer]

Communicate, compromise, but never fail to recognise what makes you happy.




Oh yes I agree 100%!
I absolutely refuse to give it up, its part of me now, I couldnt change that if I wanted to. If I did, I would be miserable and probably end up resenting him for it for the rest of my life, not good for anyone.

[Sagitta]

I dont think our relationship needs any work though, I think he is just feeling a little lonely lately, his family has recently moved away, and he has been having trouble with some of his staff at work, I think he just wants someone to complain to and pity him when he gets home :lol: :lol:

Making sure that he knows you are aware of it, but also how important it is for your happiness to have this. Worked for me when my dancing gf couldn't understand my flirting when dancing because the music called for it. :) I just couldn't dance if I didn't flirt!! :wink:

[Genesius Redux]

Is he in leg irons?


Oh no, his restaraint is far beyond leg iron.......dancing is "gay" you see, no real man would ever be caught dead dancing with beautiful women all night long :?



Well, maybe you should direct him to these forums, so he can see how many unapologetically heterosexual single guys would be more than happy to spend a few minutes or more with you in their arms, ShyDancer! :kissme:

[Vin]

IMO it depends on the nature of the relationship and when you started dancing. For me I actually think it should be reasonable to a SO for you to go dancing at least once or twice for lessons/practice and once at a social/club per week if that is what you want. It's not like you haven't invited him to come along. What you are doing is completely reasonable, in fact since all your dancing is done mon/tue/wed/ I would actually want more, at least one weekend.
That said have you tried teaching him a little at home by yourselves, it can be very romantic and that way he might not feel as embarassed about learning how to dance. Start with the easiest dance you know, (easiest dances for me are merengue and east coast swing)
Another thought is to beg him to tag along one night when you will be doing your favorite dance.(If that is not possible you might want to get a dance videotaped and have him watch it with you) The energy you have will make him want to learn how to dance with you.

[ShyDancer]

Well, maybe you should direct him to these forums, so he can see how many unapologetically heterosexual single guys would be more than happy to spend a few minutes or more with you in their arms, ShyDancer! :kissme:

:wink: :wink: :wink:

Tried to get him to have a look here, but when he comes over he says "Oh dancing $@#!" then walks off :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sarah]

I dont think our relationship needs any work though, I think he is just feeling a little lonely lately, his family has recently moved away, and he has been having trouble with some of his staff at work, I think he just wants someone to complain to and pity him when he gets home :lol: :lol:

Actually I think something needs some work, if he's saying `your dancing's a problem' rather than saying `I'd like some more attention.'

Hmm - whay don't you explain to him that you'd be happy to stay in if he can make staying in more attractive than going out.:twisted: Right now the equation seems to be {go dancing} vs {listen to whining}. I don't know about you but it doesn't do it for me. Now something like {go dancing} vs {chocolate icecream and backrub} is getting closer to the mark.

Cheers
Sarah

[pygmalion]

I don't know, Sarah. Some of the best relationships I know are based on understanding the other person's "code."

Like my girlfriend whose husband has an expanding small business. when he works too much, she gets really mean and catty. I'll never forget the time she tried her best to pick a fight with him (in my presence, no less) and he said, "you miss me, huh?" SO sweet! He knows her code. Of course, they've been together a dozen years, and worked hard at getting to know each other.

[Genesius Redux]

Well, maybe you should direct him to these forums, so he can see how many unapologetically heterosexual single guys would be more than happy to spend a few minutes or more with you in their arms, ShyDancer! :kissme:

:wink: :wink: :wink:

Tried to get him to have a look here, but when he comes over he says "Oh dancing $@#!" then walks off :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, goody! That means I can flirt with you as shamelessly as I like, and he'll never know!

Well, love and kisses to you, Honey Bear,

G :wink:

[cupojoe2]

Actually I think something needs some work, if he's saying `your dancing's a problem' rather than saying `I'd like some more attention.'

Hmm - whay don't you explain to him that you'd be happy to stay in if he can make staying in more attractive than going out.:twisted: Right now the equation seems to be {go dancing} vs {listen to whining}. I don't know about you but it doesn't do it for me. Now something like {go dancing} vs {chocolate icecream and backrub} is getting closer to the mark.


I agree with Sarah...

I had a similar problem a few years back.... I was working full time and finishing my degree -- and my SO at the time was always complaining that I was gone too much -- so I took a semester off so I could spend more time with her...

… but we pretty much just stayed home and stared at each other... after a few weeks she wanted to know, " When do you go back to school?"

[Sarah]

I don't know, Sarah. Some of the best relationships I know are based on understanding the other person's "code."


Some of the unhealthiest situations I've seen have involved someone expecting someone else to read their mind. If there's one conversation that makes me want to knock heads together its the one that goes

`what's wrong?'
`Nothing'
`No really - I can tell you're upset - is there something I can do?'
`No, its nothing'
`Is it something I've done?'

and so on and so forth. Come on people - sometimes you just have to say what you want and go from there.

Cheers
Sarah

[pygmalion]

LOL. I'll tell my parents, neither of whom has ever communicated directly to my knowledge, but who somehow have stayed happily married for the past fifty-six years. :lol: :lol:

[DancePoet]

If folks would feel their own feelings, be completely truthful to themselves and others, and uphold their commitments, relationships would be much more joyful. A balance can be found between independence and companionship, but both parties need to take 100% responsibility for themselves without blaming the other which is very difficult. Both parties need to be commited to empowering the other, while taking responsibility for their own individual happiness. And both parties need to be committed to having fun!

If the SO feels lonely, the SO needs to realize this happens in life. We can't control how we feel, but we can control how we act on our own feelings. And if there is an agreement where time has been set aside for togetherness, then as part of the agreement their needs to be time for the individuals as well.

Understanding one's own feelings, being completely honest with self and others, and coming through on the agreements are the building blocks. If these decay, crumble, or weaken, then power struggles begin. One must give up the power stuggle, realizing equality brings the most joy, which then has the capacity to grow while needing maintainence through continued feeling, honesty, and integrity.

[pygmalion]

Wow, Dancepoet. You are indeed a poet.


And that's what I figured out with my SO. The "you can't dance" thing was actually a power struggle between the two of us. I wanted to be in total control of me. And, unfortunately, he wanted to be in total control of me too.


After much reflection, I've come to the conclusion that, in healthy relationships, nobody's in total control. Control and power continue to be negotiated, but there's no to-the-death struggle. :oops: :lol:

[DancePoet]

Thanks Pygmalion.

There is a book called "Concious Loving" that provides more detail regarding the general principles I shared. I read it several years ago. It continues to strongly shape my ideas regarding relationships and my ability to have conciously loving relationships. Highly recommended!

Building off of the above ideas:

If we empower others, while controling ourselves, then there is more room for trust, respect, understanding, emotion, and loyalty through caring, compassionate, considerate, and cooperative communication.

This stuff takes practice, patience, and perserverance which all pays off with heaps of joy in the long run.

[pygmalion]

Conscious Loving is a great book. 8)

[ShyDancer]

Well, maybe you should direct him to these forums, so he can see how many unapologetically heterosexual single guys would be more than happy to spend a few minutes or more with you in their arms, ShyDancer! :kissme:

:wink: :wink: :wink:

Tried to get him to have a look here, but when he comes over he says "Oh dancing $@#!" then walks off :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, goody! That means I can flirt with you as shamelessly as I like, and he'll never know!

Well, love and kisses to you, Honey Bear,

G :wink:


*swoons* Right back at you sweetie pie :kissme:

[DWise1]

Is he in leg irons?


Oh no, his restaraint is far beyond leg iron.......dancing is "gay" you see, no real man would ever be caught dead dancing with beautiful women all night long :?

Well I certainly do not resemble that! And being able to associate with so many beautiful women of all ages (I'm 52) who actually appear to be glad to see me is a very *******ing change.

I could not help but notice that it's mainly women saying they have this problem, but men have it too. I'm doing dance classes two week-nights (and a college class on a third night) and Sunday afternoon, plus going out dancing two other nights (plus two more when those class nights free up). And my wife refuses to dance with me, but rather is always out with her own friends. Being very shy, I hate going out alone, but I finally made myself realize that it's either that or stay at home alone all the time, so out I go.

And if your husbands also complain that they can't learn to dance, I spent the first 48 years of my life completely incapable of learning to dance, but I've come very far by taking classes and sticking with it. If I can learn to dance, anybody can!

And besides, if it's something that guys don't do, then why most of the dance classes I'm in have more guys than gals?

[NeoDevin]

If I ever dance too much for my SO, it's time to find a new SO.

[pygmalion]

I think the problem is that a lot of people already have the SO, when they start dancing. It's not so easy abandoning the months or years you've invested in someone, just because they're ... difficult about your dancing habit.

[peachexploration]

I think the problem is that a lot of people already have the SO, when they start dancing. It's not so easy abandoning the months or years you've invested in someone, just because they're ... difficult about your dancing habit.

You are so right about this one, Pygmalion. One of the many reasons why I kinda shy away from a potential SO who doesn't. Really hard on both parties.

[Vince A]

This is truly a very difficult topic. I must be truly blessed to have met my wife BECAUSE of dancing. While it's not my #1 thing to do, it's pretty darned close to it. We compliment each other's likes . . . dislikes!

-We both love to dance
-I love to play the guitar
-I play in a blues band
-She loves to sing
-She sings in the church choir and the blues band
-We both love to shop, even if we just shop and don't buy anything . . . my favorite store is Victoria's Secret :twisted:
-I love to decorate our house
-I thought about being an interior decorator, but just do it as a hobby!
-She loves to decorate
-She thought we should open an interior decorating business
-I love to cook
-I cook during the week
-She loves to cook
-She cooks on the weekends
-She loves to workout
-I love to watch girls workout on tv
-She hates seafood
-I always order and eat lobster in front of her
-I believe in spanking (the kids)
-She doesn't believe in spanking (the kids)

I could go on and on . . . we make it our job to compliment each other in everything we do, yet . . . if we do disagree, at least we agree that we disagree, or better yet, we compromise! A relationship is a 24-hour-a-day job. You have to work at it!

Make everything fit, or else there will be chaos!

[DancePoet]

Way to go Vince!

Work, compromise, make everything fit. Well said!

It is the relationship that is key. Then everything else can work out.

[Vince A]

The relationship is the key . . . let the other be who they really are. Carolyn lets me . . . be me, and
I can be a flirter or an asserter, or
I can be crass or be an ass, or
I can be youthful and bold, or I can act old, and
I can be an anomaly, but she always lets me be me.

I always say . . . when it comes to dancing and relationships, especially to those unwilling SO's:

"Watch Out for Splinters"

Bend to the other with a glance,
Don't leave anything to circumstance.
Take a dare and take a chance,
What was missing can now be used to enhance.
So, put on your shoes and and put on your pants,
Be ready, willing and able to dance.
Woo her slowly, and her heart you will lance,
Take the time for some wooden-floor romance.

[pygmalion]

Yes, Vince, you are blessed.

Love the poem, btw. Another one to print out and keep handy. 8) :D

[squirrel]

Guys and gals,

I can say my SO (just boyfriend at the time) is not vrey happy that I go dancing, but: he takes lessons too, and will eventually learn... at the time, he's not coming to the club... and I tend to encourage that (I'm such a bitch!) 'cause we only have one club in my city and I hate it when my SO comes, 'cause I feel guilty I'm having so much fun... and what can I do? He doesn't know how to dance, he feels lousy, I cannot dance with him (it's torture)... grrrrr...
what can I do? :)) not much, just teach him and pray the Lord he doesn't come to ask me for a dance... until he learns

[Vince A]

Guys and gals,

I can say my SO (just boyfriend at the time) is not vrey happy that I go dancing, but: he takes lessons too, and will eventually learn... at the time, he's not coming to the club... and I tend to encourage that (I'm such a witch!) 'cause we only have one club in my city and I hate it when my SO comes, 'cause I feel guilty I'm having so much fun... and what can I do? He doesn't know how to dance, he feels lousy, I cannot dance with him (it's torture)... grrrrr...
what can I do? :)) not much, just teach him and pray the Lord he doesn't come to ask me for a dance... until he learns
Hi squirrel,
A couple of questions . . .
-Were you ever a beginner?
-When you were a beginner, did everyone want to dance with you?

You're certainly not a witch, but you should be an encourager. If he is learning, he needs to be on the floor dancing . . . how will he ever get good if he doesn't dance?

As a beginner, he probable is too shy to ask anyone else to dance, so you are his only hope.

And remember, maybe someday he may get real good . . . maybe better than you . . . and he may remember those times that you left him on the sidelines not dancing . . .

In short . . . help your b/f by getting out on the floor with him, and thus you will feed your relationship!!!

Just my 2(ents . . .

[DancePoet]

Hi Squirrel,

Remember to be thankful to your SO for even being willing to take lessons. Maybe even take a lesson or two or more with him even if it means working on the basics. He'll likely be happy to have you. You will be encouraging his continued progress. He'll get better faster.

And I agree with Vince. Don't forget to dance with him sometimes, even if this means you can not use some of the more advanced patterns. I dance with newcomers and veterans as often as possible. This keeps the newcomers coming back for more, and I learn from the veterans.

[squirrel]

Ok, guys:
1. I teach him! I have a school and he comes there for classes... I show him moves at home... I explain to him everything I know about dancing...
2. He deosn't come to clubs of his own free will... I always ask before going out: 'Have you changed your opinion? Wanna go out to dance?' and the answer is always: 'No, dear, not yet!'
3. He hates staying up late... he is the kind of guy who goes to bed at 00:00... he confessed to me he doesn't like the feeling of tiredness the next day and that he's not used to staying up... he used to accompany me at the beginning, a year ago... when we got together... but: he was always feeling bad that he couldn't dance, he wanted to go home and sleep...
4. He's not a Salsa addict! He's gonna learn (I'll see to that) but he is never going to be interested in Salsa the same way as I. Maybe an explanation would be that he has been doing ki aikido for the past 7 years (he's got now the 2nd dan) and he's kind of relaxed... It's hard for him to get obsessed with anything...
5. Yes, I was a beginner, and I hated it that the good guys didn't enjoy dancing with me... but I WANTED TO CHANGE THAT! For Christ's sake, I spent 8 months of my life mostly in clubs, sleeping 3 hours a night and going to work the next day (9 hours at least)... but I did it because that was what I craved for! He's not like me... he likes the music, has 2 left feet (not a big issue, so was I) and he is doing it just for fun!
6. You'll tell me that it is not a good idea that he takes lessons with me, but: here there are 5 schools at present (I know all teachers). 2 of them are not worth considering... the remaining three: one is led by a guy who's a good dancer but is not dancing any style... I'd say he's doing LA without keeping the lines... why would I want my boyfriend to learn dancing w/o knowing the proper tehniques?! Another school is that of my former teacher, who is the best dancer around here, but: he no longer teaches (and he's a great dancer, but sort of a lousy teacher... he's completely unable to break the steps he's doing - he was having me (when I was his assistant) break the steps! The teachers at this school are good dancers, but have no idea about proper leading and following techniques... their students do all sort of complicated moves but w/o being interested in doing a CBL on straight lines, or keeping the elbows down, or not jumping around like rabbits... And the remaining school is mine... I may not be the greatest dancer (I certainly am not!) or the greatest teacher, but: I try! I care about proper techniques, about straight lines (we dance LA style), I bought instructional tapes and tried to learn from the teachers there, I am very careful when explaining and try to teach people more than a thousand moves...
So, please understand that I am doing my best for him to learn... any other suggestions?

[Sagitta]

I'll chime in with the others and say definitely dance with him, even if you feel it is torture. If your SO is so not into salsa dancing and comes out then he is making a big effort, and your reluctance, as a very good dancer, to dance with him, would be having a discouraging effect on me, if I was him.

Perhaps, where you go they play dances other then salsa, such as bachata, which may be easier for your SO to get a hang off? If he makes good progress in one latin dance perhaps he will be more interested, more vested, in making progress in others? And bachata is the latin romantica dance, too, IMO!!

[Genesius Redux]

Hey Squirrel-

Okay, here's my Dear Abby column for the day. From what you write about your SO, you seem discontented that he doesn't have the same drive and dance ambition that you have. He's trying to learn (for you, no doubt), but he's not throwing all of his heart and soul into it. And as you know, you can't learn to dance for someone else, you have to do it for yourself. You've done everything you can to change his mind and get him to see dance the same way you see it and love it.

People don't change. He is who he is, and you are who you are. Any relationship in which the partners try desperately to change each other into what they want to be is doomed to dissolution. He's not going to become a dance fiend and club addict, and you're not going to restrict your club going and late-night habits. Maybe it's time you moved on and found someone more compatible. You'll always have Paris. :wink:

My two cents.

Genesius

[Vince A]

People don't change. He is who he is, and you are who you are. Any relationship in which the partners try desperately to change each other into what they want to be is doomed to dissolution. He's not going to become a dance fiend and club addict, and you're not going to restrict your club going and late-night habits. Maybe it's time you moved on and found someone more compatible. You'll always have Paris. :wink:

My two cents.
GR,
I couldn't agree with you more. I ended a marriage because 'she' tried to change me . . .

squirrel - you won't change him, so why try? I read a lot of negativity in your words. You won't change him. You can't control him either.

The only thing you can change . . . is your attitude. I'm not saying your attitude is bad or wrong . . . I'm saying that your attitude is the only thing that you can control or deal with that will affect with the situation.

Were you a dancer and him not a dancer when you began your relationship? If so . . . you knew this going in. Why get excited about it now?

Re-read what you wrote . . . you are "gonna see to it that he learns." Do you have a plan in your back pocket if he says, "No, I'm not"?

What if he asked you to take up K.A. martial arts with him? Would you be willing??? If you did, then you would be the rookie, and he could lose patience with your 'bottom of the barrel' abilities.

It's your relationship . . . no one here ca advise you what to do . . . other than offer some suggestions regarding SOs and dancing.

I'd say good luck, but it's not luck that we're talking about here . . .

[pygmalion]

This thread seriously hits home for me, but I'll try to be as impartial as possible when I give my two cents worth.

Vince is right. The only person in the entire world that I can change, is myself. Often, I've gotten into relationship problems because I was so focused on what the other person was doing, or wasn't doing, that I forgot all about that simple truth. The only person I have any hope of controlling is myself. Bottom line.

What I've seen in my own relationships is that, often, the harder I push, the harder the other person pushes back. The only successes I've ever had have been when I let go of control and let the person be him/her self without my interference. (I'm not just talking romance here -- human relationships in general)

I think that goes for dancing relationships or any other. By making your SO dance, even for his own good, you'll most likely prolong the time that he spends hating dancing (and maybe resenting you.)

Let him do what he wants, and you go dance. He may surprise you by joining you voluntarily. But if not, you'll be having fun doing something you enjoy. And I'm sure he'll find enjoyable activities of his own. A little time spent on individual activities can be good for a couple, you know. It'll give you something to talk about when you get back together. 8)

[peachexploration]

People don't change. He is who he is, and you are who you are.......
Were you a dancer and him not a dancer when you began your relationship?

Hi Squirrel. GR & VA bring up key elements. :) Maybe you should back off a little and let him go at his own pace? :) I know, it's really hard when your SO is not as passion as you about dance but either you find a happy medium or torture each other until one of you moves on. :cry: Hopefully, you'll find a happy medium even if it means you do things seperately. :wink:

[Genesius Redux]

The other thing that's getting left out here--

1. Squirrel says that it's "torture" to dance with him.

2. She also says he doesn't like her going out dancing.

3. She says he feels "lousy" because he can't dance, and that's why he wants to stay home.

Here's my guess, and I'm sure Squirrel will tell me if I get any of it wrong. She met him somewhere other than the dance studio. She was a dancer, he was a martial artist. They started to see each other--and he came to the studio to take some lessons because he knew it was important to her.

Contrary to what a lot of trained dancers sometimes think, there's not an easy fit between martial arts and dancing. In fact, when someone with years of martial arts training decides to learn how to dance, s/he's got to work against years of muscle memory. My dance teacher, who is a great rhythm dancer, can't throw so much as a simple low block in tae kwon do. Her hips move in exactly the opposite direction they should.

Complicating matters, Squirrel's SO is not in tkd--he's in Aikido, which is one of the most conflict avoidant martial arts you can find. He will simply do what he's doing already--passively refuse to participate and use Squirrel's own momentum against her. If her were willing to live and let live, it would be a different story. But he's not. She says that he doesn't like her going out. And he's going to work to change that.

Oh, he may seem mellow and laid back about it--but trust me, if he's 2nd dan Aikido, he's using it. With no disrespect at all to the Aikido practitioners out there--that's exactly what makes their art so effective--you don't even realize that they're doing anything and all of a sudden you find yourself flat on your back and wondering how you got that way.

I just honestly don't think there's much future in a relationship where the partners don't share, to an extent, each other's passion. As Squirrel says, that doesn't mean the SO has to become the greatest dancer in the world, but it does mean he needs to share and honor her passion for it--not just indulge it as one of those crazy things she likes to do. From what she has said, at any rate, it doesn't sound like that's going to happen. In that case I think it's best to cut the losses before you get too emotionally involved to do it.

Like Vince, I speak from hard experience on this one.

Let me just add this. I'm in theatre, and for the last three years I've been doing shows back-to-back. Anyone I'm involved with has to honor and accept that--when I'm in a show, I'm working five nights a week. I'm in rehearsals or taking classes outside of that. It's not that my SO has to be an actress--far from it! But she's got to understand and respect that life commitment. At least if it's going to be something other than a casual affair.

It doesn't matter what it is--I don't like you dancing all the time, I think you should be home earlier, I don't like you going to the theatre, I don't like it that the dog sleeps on the bed, I want to be able to get up for early morning coffee, you spend too much time watching sports. It's always something. If you can't live with it--more, if you don't like it--then get out, because, Honey, you ain't gonna change it.

Change the focus--it's not dancing, it's bridge. I hate bridge. I hate the very thought of bridge. Learning bidding conventions makes my skin crawl. But then I meet this girl. She's mega into bridge. Goes to all the tournaments. Teaches bridge to bridge clubs. She's kinda cute, so I figure, what the hey, I'll learn to shuffle the cards. But on Friday and Saturday nights, I want to go out dancing, she's meeting with the bridge club. Why can't I come play bridge with her, she asks. She hates being my partner because I'm just not serious about the game. But she's jolly well gonna teach me.

This relationship ain't happening. It's hard because she's so cute, and we do so love going to the movies or the art gallery or hiking. But we don't share or understand each other's passions.

I don't see how it's possible to sustain a relationship where you don't share or understand each other's passions.

Genesius

[SDsalsaguy]

I don't see how it's possible to sustain a relationship where you don't share or understand each other's passions.
I think GR nails it right on the head with this. Sharing may be nice, but it is far from mandatory... but understanding? Without that you're just making your way along a looooooooooong, rocky, and never-ending path.

[Vin]

The girl I have been dating and I have gone through similar troubles as you and your SO Squirrel. I was the addict first. Do you know what made her want to dance better, watching me dance with other girls. She wanted to be my favorite person to dance with. Yes for a while it was pretty torturous dancing with her. I really thought that being with her hindered my dancing prowess. I would look forward to weekends when there would be salsa yet she would be out of town. I do understand what you are going through.
On the other hand it is not as hopeless as you might think, with practice and as she has learned to love the music my gf is quickly becoming an addict. I still feel like there are certain things on the dance floor that we are unable to accomplish together as she still feels the music primarily through me. But overall she is now my favorite dance partner.
Don't give up on him being a great dance partner just yet.

[delamusica]

I had a similar problem with my boyfriend - he's not really against dancing, but it's definitely not his thing. So (except for before big comps when my partner and I are practicing every day) we worked out a deal - we a) set aside one evening during the week and one entire day during the weekend when we plan to be together, and b) i would give up dancing one one night a week so we could go out with our friends together if he would come dancing with me on one of the other nights. That way I danced a two nights less, he danced one night more, and we both got to see way more of each other and our friends.

Maybe see if you can get him to come one night a week to a class with you if you stay home and watch him play computer games for another night?

[Vince A]

delamusica,
That is such a great compromise . . . that IS USING your head!

[DWise1]

Good advice all, Genesius Redux. Just adding my dos centavos (ie, not quite 2 cents).

Contrary to what a lot of trained dancers sometimes think, there's not an easy fit between martial arts and dancing. In fact, when someone with years of martial arts training decides to learn how to dance, s/he's got to work against years of muscle memory. My dance teacher, who is a great rhythm dancer, can't throw so much as a simple low block in tae kwon do. Her hips move in exactly the opposite direction they should.

I used to be in Squirrel's SO's boat, only worse so. For decades I proved over and over again that I have no rhythm and cannot possibly learn to dance. But then I decided to really try and have come a long way in the past few years. However, the difference between him and me is that I was motivated to try to make it happen, so don't take my statement here as meaning that he should; it's up to him.

But regarding how martial arts and dancing mix, in that first class (which turned out to be intermediate Salsa) one of the women was also a beginner and she was learning karate as well. So in the basic Salsa step when she would step back she'd go into a forward stance. Even the instructor had problems handling her.

However, in my case it was martial arts -- Aikido specifically -- that helped me greatly in getting started. Even though I was two decades out of practice, in that very first lesson my Aikido was all I had going for me. Besides the basic sense of body it had given me, I immediately started moving and turning from my center and thinking in terms of how to blend with her body's motion and to redirect it in order to accomplish the lead. As a result, all the experienced dancers among the women (even though they were also beginners in Salsa) complimented me on my strong lead and that remains one of my more endearing qualities.

When the first Star Wars movie hit the screens, I'm sure that every Aikidoka watching it recognized the Force as "ki" (life energy, mind) and recognized Obi Wan's techniques of leading the mind as being akin to what we would use. So I was shocked and worried in our Shadow Charleston class when I thought another student asked if we should use the Force and the instructor said "don't". But then I realized that he had asked whether to use force. I mean, using the Force is most of what I have going for me, so I wouldn't want to lose that advantage.


Complicating matters, Squirrel's SO is not in tkd--he's in Aikido, which is one of the most conflict avoidant martial arts you can find. He will simply do what he's doing already--passively refuse to participate and use Squirrel's own momentum against her. If her were willing to live and let live, it would be a different story. But he's not. She says that he doesn't like her going out. And he's going to work to change that.

Oh, he may seem mellow and laid back about it--but trust me, if he's 2nd dan Aikido, he's using it. With no disrespect at all to the Aikido practitioners out there--that's exactly what makes their art so effective--you don't even realize that they're doing anything and all of a sudden you find yourself flat on your back and wondering how you got that way.
Been in that supine position; wondered that. And as you point out, blending and leading the mind isn't just physical (actually, it won't even work if it's just physical), but can be used in personal and social encounters. Heck, I even use it every day driving on the freeway. So undoubtedly Squirrel's SO has used it too.

But when (and if) he does get into dancing, he's going to be one great lead.


Now, Squirrel, I'm in a situation with my wife that she refuses to dance with me, so she goes out with her friends all the time and I go out dancing alone (ie, I go to the classes and venues alone, but I do partner up to actually dance). She loves dancing, lives for Jazzercise, but isn't very familiar with partner dancing. But mainly I'm firmly placed on her special list of people who rate below persona non grata.

Her excuse when we're in a social situation where she'd embarress herself by enforcing my status is that she's forgotten how to partner dance, but she always refuses to take a class with me. So instead of trying to talk her into taking a class (Lindy in our case -- she loved it before I made her list), I let her know when the next class is about to start and that she can attend if she wants to. Rather than make an issue of it or allowing it to turn into an issue, I just make sure to let her know that she's always welcome to join in. In that way, I demonstrate that I am not trying to exclude her (there's that Aikido training again, because that puts her in the position of excluding me). Last time I even offered to arrange it so that she wouldn't need to partner with me in class, unless she wanted to, and she seemed to give the idea much more consideration than before.

So the advice I'm trying to offer is that you not try to force the issue, but be sure to let him know that he is always welcome to join you.

[pygmalion]

Rather than make an issue of it or allowing it to turn into an issue, I just make sure to let her know that she's always welcome to join in. In that way, I demonstrate that I am not trying to exclude her (there's that Aikido training again, because that puts her in the position of excluding me). Last time I even offered to arrange it so that she wouldn't need to partner with me in class, unless she wanted to, and she seemed to give the idea much more consideration than before.

So the advice I'm trying to offer is that you not try to force the issue, but be sure to let him know that he is always welcome to join you.

I think you may be onto something here. When I was going through the same thing, my SO went dancing willingly... once. Everything went fine when we were freestyle dancing. As soon as a rumba came on and I started teaching him a box step, zzzzt. The whole dance thing blew up. I still wonder what would have happened if I had not tried to partner him, but had let someone else teach him instead.

[Genesius Redux]

But regarding how martial arts and dancing mix, in that first class (which turned out to be intermediate Salsa) one of the women was also a beginner and she was learning karate as well. So in the basic Salsa step when she would step back she'd go into a forward stance. Even the instructor had problems handling her.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I see you know exactly what I'm talking about! With my teacher, it's just the opposite--every time she tries to step into a front stance, the Latin motion takes over! Probably a good thing--if she ever really learned how to fight, she's flexible and fast enough to kick my sorry behind! :lol:

May the Force be with you,

Genesius

[squirrel]

maybe I haven't told you guys everything... I'm into martial arts too... only orange belt so far, but improving). that's where we met... and actually i'm not so bitter about it anymore... it's his choice... i don't really care... he gives me my space, and i give him his... i'm still teaching him... when he wants to come to the classes... i don't give him hell if he doesn't... i used to... but not anymore :))
anyway, i was just trying to point out that i know what you people are talking about...
:))
thanks for the feedback anyway... lots of interesting and helpful advice

oh, and HAPPY EASTER YOU ALL!!!

[Sagitta]

Happy Easter to you too squirrel!! :D And all other df members!! A new thread is called for!

[pygmalion]

maybe I haven't told you guys everything... I'm into martial arts too... only orange belt so far, but improving). that's where we met... and actually i'm not so bitter about it anymore... it's his choice... i don't really care... he gives me my space, and i give him his... i'm still teaching him... when he wants to come to the classes... i don't give him hell if he doesn't... i used to... but not anymore :))
anyway, i was just trying to point out that i know what you people are talking about...
:))
thanks for the feedback anyway... lots of interesting and helpful advice

oh, and HAPPY EASTER YOU ALL!!!

Good luck, squirrel. :D

[Sarah]

Contrary to what a lot of trained dancers sometimes think, there's not an easy fit between martial arts and dancing. In fact, when someone with years of martial arts training decides to learn how to dance, s/he's got to work against years of muscle memory. My dance teacher, who is a great rhythm dancer, can't throw so much as a simple low block in tae kwon do. Her hips move in exactly the opposite direction they should.

I beg to differ here - if you find an Aikidoka who wants to learn to dance, you'll find that they have all the right reflexes for leading and following built in. Maintaining a good frame is but a slight modification of aikido style defense. All you need to do is teach them the basic.
TKD, OTOH is an altogether different animal...


Oh, he may seem mellow and laid back about it--but trust me, if he's 2nd dan Aikido, he's using it. With no disrespect at all to the Aikido practitioners out there--that's exactly what makes their art so effective--you don't even realize that they're doing anything and all of a sudden you find yourself flat on your back and wondering how you got that way.

:mrgreen: Just wanted to see that written down again. :mrgreen:

Cheers
Sarah

[pygmalion]

Maybe I should post this in the ballroom and martial arts thread, but what the heck. Any harm done by applying myself to TKD at this point? I've been taking classes casually, but I'm planning to get on their color belt track, which would get me to black belt by next August. Would I be working at cross purposes, since dancing is what I really want to do?

[cocodrilo]

My guy trusts me completely, so does not feel insecure when I go to dance parties and come home at 5:00am. I also have some of my dance buddies over for dinner parties, so he's met them and sees the kind of people they are. He also knows I get a great deal of pleasure from dance and holding dance parties and that I get my exercise this way, and he can respect my choice of hobbies.

[Sagitta]

Any harm done by applying myself to TKD at this point? I've been taking classes casually, but I'm planning to get on their color belt track, which would get me to black belt by next August.

Wow!! So fast so soon? A lady to be feared! :car:

[Sagitta]

My guy trusts me completely, so does not feel insecure when I go to dance parties and come home at 5:00am. ....and he can respect my choice of hobbies.

That's great cocodrilo. Very happy for you. :D :D :D