New Vogue in America

[BlueBambue]

My studio has started a new vouge class. They advertise that they are the first such classes in the US. I was wondering what people thought about new vouge having made the jump across the ocean, whether you think it will catch on, etc.

I personally have no opinion on the matter, but thought other people might be interested.

The studio's name is Impulse Ballroom (in Bellevue, WA)

[mummsie]

Very interesting. What dances are they teaching? Are the teachers Australian? Would be interesting to see if they are using the correct technique :-) - mummsie

[wooh]

What exactly is the difference between New Vogue and American?

[mummsie]

New Vogue is sequence dancing. Everybody does the same thing. Here is an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFmKRqs68q8 - mummsie

[WaltzElf]

This is just the most wonderful news! I’ve always hoped New Vogue would find its way overseas, because it really is the loveliest way to dance, and so very beautiful to watch when done well.

[mummsie]

I should also mention that there are 14 different New Vogue competition dances and hundreds that are done socially. They seem to invent a new one every week.

They are broken into styles - Waltz there is the Lucille Waltz, the Tracie Leigh Waltz, The Twilight Waltz and the Swing Waltz
Tangos - there are 3 - the Tangoette, Tango Terrific and the La Bomba
Foxtrots - there are 5 - Merrilyn Schotische, Charmaine, Barclay Blues, Carousel and the Excelsior Schotische
March time - Evening Three Step and Gypsy Tap.

Normally beginners have the Tracie Leigh, Charmaine or Merrilyn and the Evening Three Step or Tangoette. As you move up through the grades the dances become a little more intricate although they do through curly ones at you sometimes. For example in our up and coming South Pacific Championships in our Open event we have the Gypsy Tap which is normally a lower level dance. - mummsie

[WaltzElf]

I should also mention that there are 14 different New Vogue competition dances and hundreds that are done socially. They seem to invent a new one every week.

They are broken into styles - Waltz there is the Lucille Waltz, the Tracie Leigh Waltz, The Twilight Waltz and the Swing Waltz
Tangos - there are 3 - the Tangoette, Tango Terrific and the La Bomba
Foxtrots - there are 5 - Merrilyn Schotische, Charmaine, Barclay Blues, Carousel and the Excelsior Schotische
March time - Evening Three Step and Gypsy Tap.

Normally beginners have the Tracie Leigh, Charmaine or Merrilyn and the Evening Three Step or Tangoette. As you move up through the grades the dances become a little more intricate although they do through curly ones at you sometimes. For example in our up and coming South Pacific Championships in our Open event we have the Gypsy Tap which is normally a lower level dance. - mummsie


The 14 competition ones are enough – there’s little to no point in learning the rest, since they’re generally not as nice to dance, and rarely worth dancing.

New Vogue does wonders for both ballroom and latin technique, so I recommend all you Americans sign up for the classes. Assuming they teach the correct technique.

[SwingWaltz]

Would be interesting to see if they are using the correct technique

*Cringe* New Vogue technique reminds me of sore ankle and muscle.

But it sure would be interesting hearing the New Vogue they do over the northern hemisphere. :D

[SwingWaltz]

P.S I heard that they might include some New Vogue at Blackpool. Maybe not as part of the formal championship but something like a sideshow. :rolleyes:

[tangotime]

My studio has started a new vouge class. They advertise that they are the first such classes in the US.




Not even close.. 2 very good friends of mine in Phoenix , were teaching it back in the 70/80s(?) They, like me , were from the UK (and it was, and still is called Modern sequence in the UK ) .

Its a hybrid version of Old Time dancing, which is still taught here. There are even world champs held.

Special music in Mod. Seq. is required for each dance, as they are all choro. to 64 bars .

[WaltzElf]

It would be a great start if it could be a demonstration event at Blackpool. What starts as a demonstration even could turn into a regular part of competition once other nations cotton on to it.

[tangotime]

It would be a great start if it could be a demonstration event at Blackpool. What starts as a demonstration even could turn into a regular part of competition once other nations cotton on to it.

Its antecedent, Old Time, has been competing in B/Pool since 1951..

[QPO]

This is not true there are plenty of other New Vogue Dances which are just as nice. But for comp purposes I agree there should only be so many. Black Night Tango is a good one as is New Bridge Tango, Alpha Waltz is very popular, Woodside Waltz is very popular. But there are some obscure ones that I just won't touch!


The 14 competition ones are enough – there’s little to no point in learning the rest, since they’re generally not as nice to dance, and rarely worth dancing.

[QPO]

I hope that it does take off in the US and It would be interesting to know if the teachers are from Australia! Go New Vogue :-)

[Lioness]

New Vogue is fun, I hope it spreads lots throughout America.

Agree with you QPO about the Newbridge, Black (k)night, Alpha, and Woodside.
Haven't fully learnt the Black (K)night yet, but what I've got so far is fun.

[WaltzElf]

Not even close.. 2 very good friends of mine in Phoenix , were teaching it back in the 70/80s(?) They, like me , were from the UK (and it was, and still is called Modern sequence in the UK ) .

Its a hybrid version of Old Time dancing, which is still taught here. There are even world champs held.

Special music in Mod. Seq. is required for each dance, as they are all choro. to 64 bars .

Ok, this needs correcting, because I keep seeing you mention this every time New Vogue comes up, and it is incorrect.

New Vogue is not the same as old time or modern sequence. They share similar roots this is true, but the reality is New Vogue is made up of different dances (in championship), requires different technique (there's far less ballet positions and movements used), and is taught differently. There are no world championships for New Vogue style at this stage, and Old Time teachers are quite different to New Vogue teachers in this country.

Essentially what happened was a number of Australians saw Old Time, saw a different direction to take it in, and took it that way. What we have now is New Vogue.

You could be an Old Time or modern sequence champion, come down here and find it very difficult to win our New Vogue championships! From an audience perspective I can promise you, and Old Time competition looks very different to a New Vogue competition.

New Vogue is also not danced in 64 bar choreography. It's in 24 or 32 bar sequences.

[BlueBambue]

Very interesting. What dances are they teaching? Are the teachers Australian? Would be interesting to see if they are using the correct technique :-) - mummsie

I don't really have much more information because the classes overlap with something else I have going on. I know at least one of the teachers is not Australian, I have never met the other one.

I shall ask my instructor if he has any more info when I see him on Saturday.

[Kitty]

New Vogue is sequence dancing. Everybody does the same thing. Here is an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFmKRqs68q8 - mummsie

thanks for the video!!! so much talk about new vogue style here, and i never had any idea of what it looks like

just a few questions about the video:

are these couples competing aggainst each others, or are they teammates. like in a formation?

also, who choreographed all the movements in the routine?

[mummsie]

Not even close.. 2 very good friends of mine in Phoenix , were teaching it back in the 70/80s(?) They, like me , were from the UK (and it was, and still is called Modern sequence in the UK ) .

Its a hybrid version of Old Time dancing, which is still taught here. There are even world champs held.

Special music in Mod. Seq. is required for each dance, as they are all choro. to 64 bars .
English Old Time is completly different to Australian New Vogue. Some of the patterns are similar but the music and dances are a lot different. I have done English Old Time here in Australia - only have my Oscar (highest) medal left to do. EOT has a lot of ballet foot positions which New Vogue doesn't have. Actually EOT is very hard to do correctly. At the South Pacifics being held in Sydney in four weeks they actually have a couple of EOT events which I am looking forward to watching. I love the Gaynesborough Glide - my personal favourite. :-) - mummsie

[mummsie]

thanks for the video!!! so much talk about new vogue style here, and i never had any idea of what it looks like

just a few questions about the video:

are these couples competing aggainst each others, or are they teammates. like in a formation?

also, who choreographed all the movements in the routine?
Hi Killy,

These couples are competing against each other the same as regular competition :-) All the steps are as per the New Vogue syllabus - there are 2 technique books which are used. - mummsie :-)

[QPO]

Is the Pride of Erin and EOT dance?

[danceronice]

double post...stupid Firefox.

[danceronice]

My post, she has vanished...

I watched the video--so it's like compulsory dances in ice dance, only everyone's out there at once?

My gut says "boring" but I think I would have to actually DO it to find out if I liked it. It looks a lot like Smooth, honestly, only a little more under control, and a lot less potential for collision since everyone's doing the same thing.

[QPO]

Yes I think you have to do it and then judge it. I use to feel the same about American Smooth. You have to try it and see how intricate things are to execute.

My post, she has vanished...

I watched the video--so it's like compulsory dances in ice dance, only everyone's out there at once?

My gut says "boring" but I think I would have to actually DO it to find out if I liked it. It looks a lot like Smooth, honestly, only a little more under control, and a lot less potential for collision since everyone's doing the same thing.

[tangotime]

New Vogue is not the same as old time or modern sequence. They share similar roots this is true, but the reality is New Vogue is made up of different dances (in championship), requires different technique (there's far less ballet positions and movements used), and is taught differently. .


New Vogue is also not danced in 64 bar choreography. It's in 24 or 32 bar sequences.





para 1.. so is Mod.seq.. and I did NOT say it was the same as OT.. and different techn? .. how ?.. I,m curious .



para 2.. Mod seq .. here.. are 16 bar Seq, repeated twice for 32 and or 48 bars.. The 64 bar reference , was meant to be total time allocated on most social recordings.

[QPO]

I don't know enough about it to express the differences correctly. Its interpretation that challenges such conversations. Its good you are both passionate about your dancing.

[BlueBambue]

More info:

Neither of the instructors are Australian, but they are being unoficially helped out by an Australian. The istructors are coming from a backround in international standard, so the technique they are teaching is based on that. This past month they taught the gypsy dance and one other one.

The reason they started teaching new vouge is because they visited Australia in December and were impressed by the mass amounts of people socially dancing the same thing at the same time.

[tangotime]

I don't know enough about it to express the differences correctly. Its interpretation that challenges such conversations. Its good you are both passionate about your dancing.



I,m always open to learning something new .

had a conversation with the leading Seq. teacher in the UK... she told me that when NV first came out it was virtually the same.. then an OZ couple came and demmed, and at the end of every seq, dance they spliced in a Waltz ?..( it wasnt the Ritchies )

She then went on to say, that changes in format were made ( she was not sure what ) other than that, she had no more info.

[mummsie]

Hi Tangotime, I have done both EOT and am currently doing very well in the NV area. The waltzes in the EOT are a lot slower with the old time waltz at the end where the movements are very precise with the ballet foot positions - fifth position rear and then a funnly little swivel and then the closing steps which don't move a lot acros the floor - not sure what they are called because I haven't done it for several years. In the New Vogue are basically 4 bars of viennese ast the end of the sequence so it has much more flow. The tangoes are similar although the only ones I can recall off the top of my head are the Tango Solaire and the Camelia Tango. You can use the same music for the tangos and the saunters (foxtrots) but the waltzes are competely different timing. The marches are also slightly different timing and are much more compact than the NV marches. - mummsie :-)

[mummsie]

Is the Pride of Erin and EOT dance?
I think this dance is both EOT and NV - there are many slight variations of this dance depending on where you live. There are even differnces between the states on this one. :-) - mummsie

[hustleNflow]

New Vogue has always been something I have been curious about...if my memory is correct, they feature it on the "Samba to Slow Fox" documentary on the special features of my Strictly Ballroom DVD...granted, it's probably at least a 20-year-old documentary, but it still shows a good sample of New Vogue. The names of the dances themselves are certainly interesting :lol:

[tangotime]

Hi Tangotime, I have done both EOT and am currently doing very well in the NV area. The waltzes in the EOT are a lot slower with the old time waltz at the end where the movements are very precise with the ballet foot positions - fifth position rear and then a funnly little swivel and then the closing steps which don't move a lot acros the floor - not sure what they are called because I haven't done it for several years. In the New Vogue are basically 4 bars of viennese ast the end of the sequence so it has much more flow. The tangoes are similar although the only ones I can recall off the top of my head are the Tango Solaire and the Camelia Tango. You can use the same music for the tangos and the saunters (foxtrots) but the waltzes are competely different timing. The marches are also slightly different timing and are much more compact than the NV marches. - mummsie :-)


Thanks... now you have got my curiosity ...VW... . I wonder why

[mummsie]

Thanks... now you have got my curiosity ...VW... . I wonder why

have no idea although a lot of the dances when done socially have old time waltz at the end with a balance step on the first bar. Quite offputting actually. - mummsie

[tangotime]

have no idea although a lot of the dances when done socially have old time waltz at the end with a balance step on the first bar. Quite offputting actually. - mummsie



It just clicked with me !!!!!!!!..... had to go back many moons in memory... just remembered, there were a couple of OT dances, that ended the normal sequence with 4 bars of VW .( Barn dance was one )

Ya know, I never questioned it until now

[QPO]

I had also not thought about it, but a lot of the NV dances, like Lucille , Tracey Leigh, Swing & Twilight Waltz's have a VW style ending. NV has it place in dancing like any other style, it has its difficulties in execution, but in gneral it is such a great way of making people move their way into dancing. Some of the simple dances can be learned in 30 minutes, then comes the practice in making it look great :-)

[Lioness]

Some of the simple dances can be learned in 30 minutes, then comes the practice in making it look great :-)

That's one of the things I love about NV - I can usually be led through most of them no problems and can get an idea of whether I like it, then I can go to my dance partner and say 'lets learn it!'
I tend to learn it even faster with him as he almost never forgets dance steps.

[kayak]

How is NV different from the Round Dancing done all over the US and Canada? The video looked about the same.

[White Chacha]

That's my cue (as it were)...

Disclaimer: I round dance, and I do ballroom, but I do not do New Vogue.

But based on the videos I've seen of NV, it has a shorter sequence than most round dances. Also, many round dances are choreographed very specifically to the song in question. Many are mixed rhythm, making use of a wide variety of music that's not strictly of one rhythm or another. Rumbas with a foxtrot break, foxtrots with a jive break.

Tempos vary widely in round dancing. It's not unusual to find waltzes at tempos that would make ballroom dancers look like they're scurrying about the floor.

But round dancing is near and dear to my heart. It was my first exposure to partner dancing, and acted as my gateway drug to ballroom.

[QPO]

I have never seen round dancing executed so if I find it on you tube I will comment. :-)

[tangotime]

I had the pleasure(?) of teaching a group of Round dance teachers several yrs back ( in the States ).

They had recd scripts of Gold level Intern. standard that had been placed into a " round " format .

As I recall, they were more interested in " steps " than techn. I did about 2 months work . Like most group activities, the emphasis seemed to be more casual .

[White Chacha]

Right you are, TT. Most RD leaders do not teach any technique. Also, it's not generally a competitive dance style. There is an international organization and their website is at roundalab.org . Round dancing is practiced in most countries where Modern Western Square Dance is done, and that's many more countries than you'd think.

[White Chacha]

This site http://www. crda.net/index.html#What_is_Round_Dancing , has a description of what Round Dancing is. Beware that the page starts a video with music when you visit the url. (When will site designers learn?).

[mummsie]

It just clicked with me !!!!!!!!..... had to go back many moons in memory... just remembered, there were a couple of OT dances, that ended the normal sequence with 4 bars of VW .( Barn dance was one )

Ya know, I never questioned it until now
Our version of the barn dance ends in a rotary chasse :-) mummsie

[mummsie]

This site http://www. crda.net/index.html#What_is_Round_Dancing , has a description of what Round Dancing is. Beware that the page starts a video with music when you visit the url. (When will site designers learn?).

Very interesting. I always though round dancing is what we call square dancing where its country music with the caller telling you what to do. :-) Looks like fun. New Vogue is very different - similar concept in that everybody is doing the same steps at the same time, but there are usually only 16 or 32 bars in each sequence depending on the dance :-) Also there is no caller - everybody knows the steps which are written in the two bibles of New Vogue Dancing - the sequence is repeated for the lenght of the song.
Here is another example of New Vogue dancing including the 'Gypsy Dance' that is being taught at the studio in the USA which started this thread. The dances are the Charmaine and the Gypsy Tap which is a march rhythm. These dancers are fairly beginners - it is a combined Level 1/2 event. The guys with tails are level 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liijK2b_3fY&feature=related
I should be able to post some more in the next week or so which features my son - the video was taken from the grandstand so you can better see what is going on. Its hard to look at it from ground level and see how it all works.
mummsie

[kayak]

But based on the videos I've seen of NV, it has a shorter sequence than most round dances. Also, many round dances are choreographed very specifically to the song in question.

Thanks ... So NV needs to have a shorter sequence because the dancers have to remember the pattern on their own. Adding a caller for Round Dance allows for the special choreographing to specific songs?

Does NV have the same step levels ideas as Round Dance? My RD neighbors took me to a dance a couple of times and they had three levels based on the number of patterns you were proficient at.

[mummsie]

Thanks ... So NV needs to have a shorter sequence because the dancers have to remember the pattern on their own. Adding a caller for Round Dance allows for the special choreographing to specific songs?

Does NV have the same step levels ideas as Round Dance? My RD neighbors took me to a dance a couple of times and they had three levels based on the number of patterns you were proficient at.

Hi Kayak, The music for NV is phrased so that it lines up with the sequence. Easy to tell if you are out of whack. The steps are the same for all levels from beginner to professional - just the arm styling is different and as you progress from Level 1 (begginer) to Level 5 (Open) and beyond you become more adept at making it more flowing and graceful. I don't know if you watched the last winter olympics but the ice dancing had an event which I would consider along the same lines. They had a sequence that they had to perform in time to the music - the advantage they had was they were on the ice on their own - in NV there can be up to 15 couples on the floor at once. Its very easy to see who has good footwork and styling though when you are lined up against each other doing the same steps at the same time. :-) - mummsie

[katen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMil_YSl8Ck
is an example of a couple of the very best NV dancers at the moment

[Easy]

New Vogue doesn't sound appealing to me. So I guess I'm saying I don't think it will catch on ;)

[mummsie]

New Vogue doesn't sound appealing to me. So I guess I'm saying I don't think it will catch on ;)

Which is a real shame because its great for social dancers. Everybody can get up and dance with complete strangers and know what the steps are. - mummsie

[QPO]

Now Easy, I am surprised you would say that, you come across as a progressive sort of guy!. I think until you try it it is hard to Judge. The steps are modern steps, the dances are done in levels of difficutly, and can look great done by the higher level dancers.

As we say don't knock it until you try it :rolleyes: I hope it does catch on I would love to come on a holiday to the US and dance all style across the USA.

New Vogue doesn't sound appealing to me. So I guess I'm saying I don't think it will catch on ;)

[delamusica]

Which is a real shame because its great for social dancers. Everybody can get up and dance with complete strangers and know what the steps are. - mummsie

That's true in ballroom too . . . it just involves learning to lead & follow, which is sort of the point of partner dancing, right?

I guess I see it as being not great for social dancing (likely to promote lack of lead & follow and/or backleading, I think) . . .

But at the same time, I think it would make for very interesting competition - takes the choreography component out and just judges relative levels of execution.



All this said with the understanding, of course, that I have never done it.

[mummsie]

That's true in ballroom too . . . it just involves learning to lead & follow, which is sort of the point of partner dancing, right?

I guess I see it as being not great for social dancing (likely to promote lack of lead & follow and/or backleading, I think) . . .

But at the same time, I think it would make for very interesting competition - takes the choreography component out and just judges relative levels of execution.



All this said with the understanding, of course, that I have never done it.

In some ways its true about the lack of lead and follow but in some cases people aren't capable of following. I know - I am a teacher and I have had beginners for 12 months who are still not able to follow a standard dance but have no problems working out patterns in a new vogue dance. It just gives everybody an opportunity to get up and have fun without having to think too much or getting uptight because they can't follow correctly.

Competition wise - yes its much easier to judge a new vogue competition because you can tell who is out of time or who isn't doing the correct foot work and foot positions. New Vogue is technically very challenging when you get to top competition level. - mummsie

[Easy]

Sorry I've been a bump on a log lately, but it still doesn't appeal to me lol ;) If I tried it, maybe I'd like it.

[wooh]

It just gives everybody an opportunity to get up and have fun without having to think too much or getting uptight because they can't follow correctly.



The electric slide of ballroom? :p

[BasicsFirst]

It just gives everybody an opportunity to get up and have fun without having... - mummsie

Yes, but we already have LINE dancing of nearly every shape and form (which isn't my bag either - I'm with Easy on this one), and with LINE dancing you don't even need a partner.

[QPO]

I am glad that I am more open to try new things, I would even give American smooth a try, as I don't see that as true ballroom with all the breaks, but it looks good for a cabaret.

[WaltzElf]

Easy - pity you might not get a chance to try it.

By far the best dancing there is. I'd rather do New Vogue than standard or latin any day of the week.


But I understand America's relucatance to try it. I'd never lower myself to American Smooth either, which looks ridiculous to me, too. ;)

[latingal]

But I understand America's relucatance to try it. I'd never lower myself to American Smooth either

Let's not get insulting, we try to be civilized here on DF.

[mummsie]

I agree - lets keep this nice. I have a DVD of the last year's Ohio Star Ball that was televised and the American Smooth has its place in the danceworld as well as New Vogue. (I have all 5 DVD's actually - Ballroom, Latin, Rythem, Smooth and the playoff) - it is beautiful and flowing to watch. If any of you Aussie guys want a copy let me know - all I want is postage costs and I can copy it for you. I did however find it very annoying when last year we were on a cruise ship and there were people doing American Smooth with flailing arms in a very small area. It seemed they found it impossible to doing anything that didn't cause us to duck and weave :-) We simply moved away and danced on the carpet.- mummsie

[Lioness]

By far the best dancing there is. I'd rather do New Vogue than standard or latin any day of the week.

I agree with you there. All of my favourite dances are New Vogue, and in general it's preferable over the other styles. I still like latin and standard though.

[White Chacha]

When I was in high school, a friend's mom suggested broadening my listening. I recall her suggesting a piece by Alban Berg. I recall scrunching up my face at the thought of listening to Berg. She said something like, "not to your taste? I know, we always like best that which we know best." ...

[QPO]

I agree with previous comments, they all have their place and complexity to dance. All I say don't knock anything until you try it.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

New Vogue is sequence dancing. Everybody does the same thing. Here is an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFmKRqs68q8 - mummsie
Lovely! I like watching how each couple faces the challenge of having the same choreography and works creatively to make it their own. Hmmm...it looks like there isn't much jockeying for a prime starting spot on the dance floor. :)

Until recently when the organizers moved out of the country, there used to be a weekly round dance just a few blocks away from me. Now I'm kicking myself for never having checked it out. :sad:

We do have a little sequence dancing in the vintage ballroom community.
Gaskell's Congress of Vienna Waltz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpS2H2VZvG0) Nowhere near the technical level of the NV dancers above, but definitely fun. :)

[White Chacha]

The thing that saddens me about round dance is the tremendous lost opportunity. There is a tiny handful of rd leaders in the US who teach any technique. In the absence of it, the dancers tend to value the ability to do more figures over dancing the figures well. Even the so-called easy Phase 2 dances (two-step and waltz) can be so much more by application of a little technique.

More than the visual aspect of actually dancing well, I think most round dancers are missing out on a lot of the pleasure of it. I enjoy round dancing much more after some years of competitive ballroom training.