What's in a name? American Standard?

[D-spot]

Is it just me?
Am I being anal?
The studio I work at tends to separate the dances into either Standard or Latin. No problem there.
Except they are really talking about American Style. Aaaarrggghh!!!

Is it so confusing for the students to understand Standard/Smooth and Latin/Rhythm? I don't think so.

Going quietly insane.

I also have an ongoing argument over which is easier. To me there is absolutely no difference in either style (yes, including AS Foxtrot and IS Foxtrot).

I think I need to learn to keep my big mouth shut, just to make things run easier. But it's not in my nature, it's confusing when they talk AS using IS terms.

D-spot
(insanity, legs and noses run in my family)

[etchuck]

No, you're not the only one who gets hung up on that detail.

Personally, I learned AS first, so AS is easier. Smooth to me is nicer than Standard to dance to, but Latin is more interesting than Rhythm. Of course, you won't dance Smooth outside the US much... which is too bad. I really, really like Am Tango and have gotten to the point I know "enough" steps for it to really enjoy dancing it.

[cl5814]

"To me there is absolutely no difference in either style"

I am curious as to what you mean by no difference. I am considering to switch from AS to IS and was wondering what the "difference" will be.
Are you saying that the basic idea is still the same ? Can I build on my AS knowledge and move on from there. The perception that i have is that AS and IS is so different, i'll have to start from scratch.
In my very first private lesson, i was told that you can move in 4 basic directions, i.e. fwd,bkwd, left and right side. This is still true for IS, i believe. ok, that is a bit oversimplified but i think you will get the idea.

[etchuck]

I'm not the expert, but considering that no one here (in the college ranks) dances smooth as much as I want to...

American smooth allows for open positions whereas International standard does not (more reliance on frame connection for leads I think). American smooth tends to have dancers close their feet together to complete a pattern, but international standard does not. The nice thing is that you can apply/adapt some IS moves into AS but you usually cannot go the other way (there is no ladies' underarm turn in international waltz whereas there is one in American).

The major difference thus comes in tango for me... American tango you close your feet (basic: ssqqs) but International tango does not (basic: ssqq). That really, messes with me when I try to learn international tango because I always revert back to American, even when I hear the music.

[Genesius Redux]

I don't think you're being anal--I think you're asking that the studio know the difference, which is reasonable since they presumably teach it.

I don't know that I agree that there is no difference between AS and IS, however. The syllabi are way different, and in terms of style, it seems to me that AS has the couple dancing open far more frequently, whereas the stress in IS is on two people moving as one.

If there's no difference between the styles, I'd be with the studio--and say, what's in a name? As there is a stylistic difference, though, I'm with you when you say to them, get it right, guys.

True, technique is technique, whatever syllabus you learn. But to say there is no stylistic difference because of common techniques is kind of like saying there isn't a difference between, say, biochemistry and biophysics. The difference may be subtle, and only readily apparent to those who are relatively well-versed in the disciplines, but it's there.

I would have some reservations about a studio that couldn't get straight the difference between the two styles. But maybe there's something I'm missing. :?

Genesius

[D-spot]

Is it just me?
I also have an ongoing argument over which is easier. To me there is absolutely no difference in either style (yes, including AS Foxtrot and IS Foxtrot).

I make reference to the difficulty of the different styles, not to any technical differences. There are most certainly differences in technique between the styles.

Hope this clarifies that point.
D-spot

[D-spot]

True, technique is technique, whatever syllabus you learn.

Lots of differences in technique, basic examples:-
R and CC
Rhthym- step onto bent leg)
Latin (- step onto straight leg

Standard, must alway together with partner
Smooth, can open up away from partner

If I am wrong here, please correct me, always willing to learn.
I tend to teach up to bronze in AS and gold in IS with some open variations in either style so I accept I have lots to learn.

It seems that there is an increasing number of AS competitors with significant IS experience.
Will there one day be a 19 dance championship?
D-spot

[D-spot]

The major difference thus comes in tango for me... American tango you close your feet (basic: ssqqs) but International tango does not (basic: ssqq).

Basic tango - first steps usually consists of two walks (SS) followed by another move, Progressive link (QQ), followed by Closed Promenade (SQQS).
Think of each part as a separate step, very short sequences. I find this makes it easier for me to freestyle rather than having to remember the longer sequences (such as flare promenade in AS Tango).

I find teaching a short sequence works well for social dancing, be it AS or IS, limiting the amount of technique in either style. Truth be known I know relatively little technique in AS compared to IS. Having the IS technical books available is a great boon for instructors. I am not aware of any such standard (lower case S, not upper case S) for the AS. Any recommendations?

D-spot.

[etchuck]

I am looking for American-style books too. The ones that I have seen studios use are the DVIDA series, which you can get at Dancevision (dot com, of course). I am probably going to buy a set of the American smooth and rhythm books since ... again... no one here wants to progress and learn more steps in those around here... yet.

[etchuck]

Will there one day be a 19 dance championship?
D-spot

I would love to have a 19-dance Jack-and-Jill for a competition event... ;) ... heck a 21-dance J&J (include a few club dances to that)...

Who's up for that? :)

[Genesius Redux]

True, technique is technique, whatever syllabus you learn.

Lots of differences in technique, basic examples:-
R and CC
Rhthym- step onto bent leg)
Latin (- step onto straight leg

Standard, must alway together with partner
Smooth, can open up away from partner

If I am wrong here, please correct me, always willing to learn.
I tend to teach up to bronze in AS and gold in IS with some open variations in either style so I accept I have lots to learn.

Agree 100%, only what you're calling technique, I was calling style.

G

[Porfirio Landeros]

Standard, must alway together with partner
Smooth, can open up away from partner
Standard and Smooth are closer technique-wise than I think most people believe.

When you talk about the ability to separate from your partner, that's more in reference to figures and steps, but the way you execute your footwork should have the same technique as the Standard dances.

I think a lot of studios lump the dances into Ballroom and Latin, but I've never heard someone say "American Standard", which I guess isn't incorrect, because they're dancing to an American standard of steps and figures. Maybe they should apply for a trademark so they can collect royalties :wink:

[Porfirio Landeros]

Will there one day be a 19 dance championship?
D-spot

The Holiday Dance Classic and the San Diego DanceSport Champs (formerly Southwest Regional) used to have, or may still have, a "Best All Around" category, which was one dance from each style. I think it was American Waltz, International Quickstep, American Bolero, and International Samba... something like that. I'll have to check the website and see if they still do that... it was also a Pro-Am event, I believe.

[Genesius Redux]

I think a lot of studios lump the dances into Ballroom and Latin, but I've never heard someone say "American Standard", which I guess isn't incorrect, because they're dancing to an American standard of steps and figures. Maybe they should apply for a trademark so they can collect royalties :wink:

:lol:

[Larinda McRaven]

D-Spot, the ISTD puts out the International technique books for Standard and Latin you are probably using. They also have put out Rhythm and Smooth books and videos. The gold Smooth book is beng printed as we speak and shoud be available for sale within the month.

Porfirio, I did not know those two comps did that. Out here on the East we have American Star Ball in NJ that has the "All-Around". It is a pro-am scholarship that has better prize money than the pro stuff.

[SDsalsaguy]

The Intercontinental Dancesport Festival, held every other year in Daytona, does have a 19 dance event! Now that's got to be tiring... especially if there's more than a straight final round! :shock:

[etchuck]

The Intercontinental Dancesport Festival, held every other year in Daytona, does have a 19 dance event! Now that's got to be tiring... especially if there's more than a straight final round! :shock:

I didn't remember that they had this. :car:

[SDsalsaguy]

I wasn't there this year, but I remember it most distinctly from three years ago... and the same couple won all 19 dances!!! :shock:

[Chris Stratton]

"American Standard" can be found at a reasonable fraction of competitions.

But the ballroom is the wrong part of the venue in which to look for it.

(Hint: try google)

[Laura]

Darn it Chris, you beat me to it :-)

[SDsalsaguy]

I have a funny story about that I'll have to share some time... :lol:

[pygmalion]

"American Standard" can be found at a reasonable fraction of competitions.

But the ballroom is the wrong part of the venue in which to look for it.

(Hint: try google)

LOL! I found a couple in my house. No googling required. :lol: