Bad Habits

[Haz]

My partner raised this point with a comment the other day when we were practicing...we were in an open position (both of her hands in mine) and we weren't going over any moves specifically (ie I wasn't thinking too much of what I was doing, technique, etc). She commented that my grip was a bit off and pointed it out. I thought it really weird and I'll try my best to describe it here...

http://nexus.carleton.ca/~cjmuise/images/salsa_hand_norm.bmp

This is an image of a normal grip. (I know its a guy holding his own hand but bear with me...). All of the 4 fingers of the guy (assuming guy is left hand (right side of the image) and girl is right hand (on the left side of the image)) are underneath and facing upwards. This leaves the hand in a position to push (with pressure by thumb on top of the hand) or pull (with pressure by 4 fingers on the bottom of the females 4 fingers).

What I ended up doing naturally, and this happens every time I don't think about it, is having my index finger on top of the females hand as well. So my thumb and index make a 'V' on the top of the gal's hand while my other three fingers are underneath to pull any leads necessary. I do this with both my left and right hands when I'm in the open position. My partner insisted that it didn't make a difference and she followed just the same. We concluded, half joking, that it was my own style of dancing and continued to use it.

I know that when learning anything that bad habits arise early on and they're hard to fix if you don't deal with them fast. Is this something I should be concerned with? Or am I fine going on with a whack grip for an open position?

Furthermore, what are the major pitfalls that beginners can encounter by not learning things properly early on? Any little key things that should be dealt with right away?

Thanks for the help, and I'm sorry the description isn't that grand. I don't have access to a camera or webcam at the moment, and describing my own grip to the guy who posed for the first picture proved to be pretty impossible. I should have better access to media for future questions of the sort. Cheers.


HAZ

[delamusica]

The only major problem I see with having an unusual hand position is that if you dance with someone other than your usual partner, it might be harder for them to follow, especially on moves with more subtle leads . . . just a thought.

[Haz]

*hrmz*...I don't think I know enough moves yet to include any with 'subtle' leads in that position...The pulling force of my bottom 3 fingers is more then enough to lead her into any turn I'm capable of sending her, etc. And of course it doesn't inhibit any leads where pressure on the top of her hand is needed...but if the index specifically is needed in more advanced leads (yet to be learned) then that'd be one definite reason to be more concious about it. That the case?

[jon]

This leaves the hand in a position to push (with pressure by thumb on top of the hand) or pull (with pressure by 4 fingers on the bottom of the females 4 fingers).

I can't tell from the picture, but if you're indeed applying pressure with thumbs on the top of your partner's hand - don't. It's a bad habit for several reasons, most important that it's likely to be painful; if her hand gets caught in a pincer grip between your fingers and thumb, it can't rotate freely; and there's less ability to communicate with only a single point of contact.

Compression leads, say for tuck turns, can be done with pressure from your cupped fingers into her palm. Doubtless people will have counterexamples, but as a general rule of thumb 8), avoid using your thumbs.

[SDsalsaguy]

I'd say try and break this habbit. It may not be problematic, in itself, but I can speculate that as you get to the point of leading multiple spins and checked spins that finger positioning may complicate things.

I also agree whole heartedly with jon . . . thumb use is a big no-no! Most women that I've come across hate it, and it certainly does interfere with smooth transitions into multiple spins.

[Sarah]

I
I also agree whole heartedly with jon . . . thumb use is a big no-no! Most women that I've come across hate it, and it certainly does interfere with smooth transitions into multiple spins.

I concur. IME no `grip' per se is necessary if your partner is seeking to maintain a connection with you, and that the `thumb on top' does tend to result in an overly forceful and annoying style of leading, paticularly if the hands are held very low.

As a rule of - yeah well, bad puns aside - if your partner cannot hold her wrists basically in alignment with her hands most of the time she will be irritated.

That being said I have seen the `forefinger on top' hold you say you're doing sometimes taught as basic, and sometimes used as a signal(as opposed to a lead) for a specific move.

Cheers
Sarah

[SDsalsaguy]

...I have seen the `forefinger on top' hold you say you're doing sometimes taught as basic, and sometimes used as a signal(as opposed to a lead) for a specific move.
Really? Wow, I've never even heard of that, let alone seen it... :?

[Sarah]

...I have seen the `forefinger on top' hold you say you're doing sometimes taught as basic, and sometimes used as a signal(as opposed to a lead) for a specific move.
Really? Wow, I've never even heard of that, let alone seen it... :?

I didn't say I liked it ;). But yeah, I've seen it taught in a workshop that IIRC was billed as cuban style. As a signal I can't remember seeing it in salsa, but in modern jive its used as a signal for a paticular dip that I can't remember the details of at the moment. We call it a sicissor dip because of the signal.

Cheers
Sarah

[SDsalsaguy]

Sheesh... "learn" something new every day...

[Haz]

So...maybe I mysteriously know all these moves and don't even realize it yet right? No? aww comon :p...I'll learn the scissors dip just cause of the signal ;).

I think there my have been a misconception with the thumb. When in an open position, where should my thumb be? My current understanding says that it just 'rests' (doesn't press) on top of her hand...should it just be to the side and only have our finger tips in contact?

Thanks for the help, and please, if there are any other major common problems that beginners should look out for, I'd be more then happy to hear about/avoid them. Cheers.

HAZ

[SDsalsaguy]

Heya Haz... from my perspective I keep thumbs off, in all situations. The thumbs to the side, fingers/palms only aproach is what sounds right to me.

[borikensalsero]

Here is my take on hand position. I agree with everything everyone mention above, and you should know the correct technique, and practice it, the above descriptions are pretty much it, master them and you are on your way.

I have a bunch of different hand holds depending on the woman, and the move. Female dance instructors in the past have told me that there is no way I can properly lead a woman into multiple spins and such with my index finger on top of the hand. Well, after I'm done having my way with them, they see that the hold isn't a problem, For, the real problem becomes how well you lead them despite the hold. To me it feels natural to do what you have described, and smoothly transitioning to a different hold prior to a move ins't a problem.

When I dance with the ladies who are all technique I do exactly what SD and jon advice. It gives me that much of an easier time to lead. However, when I dance with a girl who is all into grooving and busting out, even the pinky finger makes them go, hence, I do anything and everything with the hold, except pressure with the THUMB! AHHHHHHHHHH, I actually find it that women use the thumb for pressure more than guys.

When I worry about look of hands on a slow song my thumb is always gently placed on top of her hand, looks more intimate as the thumb running away from the girl, except when I "push" her away from me, to an open break, my thumb slides to the side as SD describes, and it stays there until we come together again. But crap, when dancing fast I just got to do what the book says, no time to play around with hand/finger positions, Plus it is easier to pull the hand away from a death grip. :D

In all, learn the correct technique as you start dancing, when you become more advance, you will notice that you'll start to play with different things in the dance. Until then, follow the technique.

[jon]

I didn't say I liked it ;). But yeah, I've seen it taught in a workshop that IIRC was billed as cuban style. As a signal I can't remember seeing it in salsa, but in modern jive its used as a signal for a paticular dip that I can't remember the details of at the moment.

I've seen something analogous in WCS, a suggestion - by Kyle Redd IIRC though it's been a while - that the index finger be held along the outside of the follower's hand. This can give a more solid sense of connection and control (it was describing as a variant of a "come-along" martial arts hold :-)), at the usual risk to the extended finger.

[Vince A]

Hm-m-m-m-m-m . . . Kyle and Sarah mentioned in the same post . . . interesting combination :wink:

[jon]

Hm-m-m-m-m-m . . . Kyle and Sarah mentioned in the same post . . . interesting combination :wink:

And there also a "Kyle and Sara" well known in the Lindy world.

[D-spot]

Plus it is easier to pull the hand away from a death grip. :D

You've gotta love that death grip.

Count the fingers afterwards.
Thank god it wasn't a double spin.
Whoops, seems they ain't detachable after all.
Don't worry, I have another hand.
Well, that's really giving the girl the finger (or 'helping hand' if you want to be a bit more polite).
I didn't know you did martial arts, that's a good one, show me it later.

Any other comments/actions?
D-spot.

[D-spot]

Talking of bad habits, especially in salsa (also in swing, but not very prevalent in other partner dances) is the yanking of elbows of either the leader or follower.
I sugest swapping lead hands occassionally so your arms stay the same length at least.

And what about that old favourite, the overturning of the ladies arms behind them when doing right turns. Makes me ince when I see it hapen.

So, what's your favourite 'bad habit'?

D-spot.
(PS, my thumb usually lies (no pressure) across the back of the followers hand for basics and related moves, changing hand position as required for other moves.
With novices I place my index finger along the side of the wrist, helps keep the hand and wrist in a straight line rather than the demented squirrel position).

Ohoh, just remembered another favourite. The head pecking action. Hilarious, just difficult for me to concentrate on the dancing when they are doing this one.

[borikensalsero]

The head pecking action. Hilarious, just difficult for me to concentrate on the dancing when they are doing this one.


Ahhh, lovely... lol... Where I'm from it is a huge, huge bad habits that domincans have when they dance merengue. Is there anything that looks as bad but as funny as that?

[D-spot]

I saw an Arthur Murray training video (featuring Sam Sodano, can't remember the lady) where she was head pecking very strongly in the merengue (ballroom merengue has a bad name in the clubs, I wonder why).
I also saw them demonstrate a cha-cha move called the chicken scratch. Had tears rolling down my face, trouble breathing I was laughing so hard. The two actions together, OMG.
D-spot
bored at work, don't tell the boss.

[Sagitta]

I also saw them demonstrate a cha-cha move called the chicken scratch. Had tears rolling down my face, trouble breathing I was laughing so hard. The two actions together, OMG.
D-spot
bored at work, don't tell the boss.

Shhh!! I won't. :wink: :)

Off topic here but there is a swing move that you do in charleston, where you break on 2 and do the head pecking chicken move. One of the odd akward feeling moves that I learnt.

Talking of bad habits we have the overextended arm jerking moves when one does back breaks and other moves. A common mistake in most partner dances.

[SDsalsaguy]

Bad habit... straightening of the connected arms! Argh! :x :evil: :doh:

[sbsalsera]

This is a bad habit some beginning-intermediate leaders have that DRIVES ME CRAZY!!! We're in a double hand open hold, and they lead a clockwise underarm turn...except that they hold on to my left hand as I'm beginning to turn, so it's feels like a hammerlock...but then they let go of my left hand as I'm turning! So I end up turning with my left arm behind my back for no reason! You might think this isn't such a big deal. Right...until they do the same thing again. And again. And again... ARRGGGGHHHH!!!

This is what I want to tell them (since I don't give unsolicted comments while dancing socially): Leaders! There are times when you will want one or both of my arms to end up behind my back - by and large, these moves are fun and I enjoy them very much. However, please don't unintentionally place my arms in that position, especially if you also want me to spin! It's much more difficult to spin in this position (try it) because I can't use the arm behind my back for balance, and I have less shoulder power. Plus, I like to move my arms and shoulders while dancing, and having an arm behind my back limits this (even if it's for only half a measure).

Okay, I feel better now...

[borikensalsero]

Bad habits... I got one that I purposely do a bunch!!!

I love to spin on my heels... My lady goes nuts. I do it hoping to get off balance at which time I let myself go and bust out on a little shine, shine routine. Wepa, it looks as if I'm really going to fall, but when I go off on to shine it looks like I meant it. Yeah right! that's what I think... :D

[danceguy]

Spinning on your heels? You sound like a non-conformist Salsero Boriken! :D

I've realized one thing I do tonight...that during a CBL I usually do a hook step and then throw in a few shine steps while getting back on the 1...and I didn't even realize I was doing it! I don't know if this is "wrong" or not...but it works for me. Perhaps I've learned Cuban style in my sleep? It might be all those friend plantains I've been eating. ;)

My other "bad" habit is that when going into an open break to set up a right turn for the ladies with my left hand...I always slide my right hand gently down their arm from closed position...just to keep contact before I let it go and to add a little spice. Tonight in class this beginner lady said to me "hey, you don't have to keep touching my other arm, just let it go!"

I nearly wanted to say "hey, the door is over there, and please don't let it hit your ass on the way out!"..but instead, I said "ok, sure!" while inside I'm going...sheesh...I'll just play stupid...what a party pooper! :x

So, I set up the turn, and I just let go of her other arm and it flops down...and with my free right arm I throw in some flashy kung fu moves that make me look rather silly as I don't have much else to do at the moment. :roll: :P

I'm not sure if the lady noticed or not (I think she was too busy staring at her feet...perhaps admiring her shoelaces)...but I got a good laugh out of it. :lol:

Remember ladies...if a guy ever does this too much...tell him to break contact and to let your arms flop all around...you are there as a dance puppet and not a human being to be touched and nutured! :shock: :roll: :P

SG

[SDsalsaguy]

I've realized one thing I do tonight...that during a CBL I usually do a hook step and then throw in a few shine steps while getting back on the 1...and I didn't even realize I was doing it! I don't know if this is "wrong" or not...but it works for me.
As long as it in no way pulls on your partner, interferes with your connection, or interferes with her ability to complete her steps/movement it's all good!

[danceguy]

Well I'm still a novice...but I've learned how to do a CBL several different ways from different instructors...and then had to learn how to adapt on a crowded dance floor and with many different ladies. I don't like to really "snap" someone with a very light frame...so while some ladies need a large amount of oomph to move them...others I let glide like butterflies... :wink:

Another factor is that I dance with a lot of beginners who start walking before I push them...so a lot of the "fancy steps" I do are actually an attempt to compensate for their errors so I stay on beat! :shock: :? :P

SG

[Haz]

Thanks a ton for all the tips and advice. I've got tons to work on and try out next practice. Speaking of which, if anyone can explain (or direct me to an explination) of the Hammerlock (I'm learning cuban so I guess it would be Setenta??) move that sbsalsera mentioned, I'd like to try and take a look at that for us to pick up. Thanks again for all the help. Cheers.

HAZ

[Sagitta]

hammerlock...setente...yes, you do hammerlock in that...but you do a lot more as well...let me just try and describe it in general terms without ascribing to any particular dance style...

let's see...when suggesting a followers right turn do not let release your right hand from her left hand. So when the follower executes the turn her hand is behind her back. That's the basic idea and can also be done with the followers left turn, as well. I actually like doing it as part of a combination e.g. sweetheart to hammerlock. Has a little more oomph.

Sweetheart...open break in two handed open position, and guide with left hand to your right side, looping your hand over the follower on the slow. Then a hammerlock following....more oomph as in half a basic the follower does one turn to face you, and then another to get into teh hammerlock.

Can't be of more help right now as I just danced one night after a month long break. So, I'm a little rusty.

[borikensalsero]

Spinning on your heels? You sound like a non-conformist Salsero Boriken! :D

My other "bad" habit is that when going into an open break to set up a right turn for the ladies with my left hand...I always slide my right hand gently down their arm from closed position...just to keep contact before I let it go and to add a little spice.

Yeap, you can say that I'm as a salsa non-conformist as there is.... You know how it is, there is no correct way to do anything, there are a million and one correct ways to do anything...

As per your bad habit, it so stressed here in NY City to do just that, slide your arm down her arm keeping touch at all times when you are about to do X move that requires such subtle slide... she might be just a tad uptight if you asked me. It looks smooth doing it that way, as opposed to letting go, then chasing her arm back to your hand to do the move... It looks like you are playing the chasing my hand game, otherwise... Especially if she is a free arm swinger that doesn't really have full grasp of when and why...

If I was you, I'd keep doing, since I already do... :wink:

[Haz]

hammerlock...setente...yes, you do hammerlock in that...but you do a lot more as well...let me just try and describe it in general terms without ascribing to any particular dance style...

let's see...when suggesting a followers right turn do not let release your right hand from her left hand. So when the follower executes the turn her hand is behind her back. That's the basic idea and can also be done with the followers left turn, as well. I actually like doing it as part of a combination e.g. sweetheart to hammerlock. Has a little more oomph.

Sweetheart...open break in two handed open position, and guide with left hand to your right side, looping your hand over the follower on the slow. Then a hammerlock following....more oomph as in half a basic the follower does one turn to face you, and then another to get into teh hammerlock.

Can't be of more help right now as I just danced one night after a month long break. So, I'm a little rusty.

Alright, so I researched everything I could on the advice you gave me. Hammerlock was easy enough to conceptualize but the sweetheart I couldn't figure out. It's just another name for the cuddle position right?

The way I understood that is if you want the girl to turn left and end up on your right side in the 'sweetheart' position, you lead on 1 (assuming 1 is your first step with the leaders left foot...nothing to do with on1 or on3). To lead her out you lead it back on 5-6-7.

The way you described the hammerlock is to lead her to the outside (followers right turn) and this would mean you lead on the 5-6-7 (because of the footing). I know its confusing to explain but here's what I see when I read the post:

1-2-3: Woman's left turn (lead with L-hand) into a sweetheart position.
5-6-7: Back out of the sweetheart position to the open position
1-2-3: Unaccounted for beats. (just dance idle?)
5-6-7: Woman's right turn (lead with L-hand) into a hammerlock position.

I figured I could just lead her into the sweetheart position on the other side on 5-6-7, back out of it on 1-2-3, then right into the hammerlock. Means she spins one way for the sweetheart and another for the hammerlock but I don't think that's what you described.

I know its being picky and I should/can just piece together any of the moves on the fly, but this lil combination explanation has been buggin me :p. Any clarification available? Thanks a ton and wish me luck on todays surprise move in practice :wink: . Doin what I described above, right into a XBL with an inside turn, then some other cool arm things I saw on a video (just wish I had names for all these things...).

Cheers,
HAZ

[cocodrilo]

A chicken-scratching cha cha? Kung Fu moves? I would LOVE to see those! You guys are hilarious, but all the odd dancing sure sounds fun (& original!!!) to me!
I hate the thumb thing, too! I don't really care how the guy holds my hands, as long as his holds are fairly consistent so I know what to expect each time'round and NOT holding onto me limply or au contraire with a Vulcan death grip.
What bugs me big time here is some guys wanna try to give me a little push to get my bum twisting(It's ALREADY twisting!!!) during a CBL and trying to give me the little push for other moves as well. I had to tell one guy to knock it off.
Borikensalsero, I spin on my heels, too! Of course, this is only possible when wearing my jazz shoes. Gotta learn that Kung Fu stuff... :lol:

[Sagitta]

Okay Haz. I often do the hammerlock from sweetheart position so it would be on the 5-6-7/8. As for doing the hammerlock not from sweetheart position..on the 1-2-3/4 it is almost the same lead as for a normal followers right turn, except for lowering of the leader's right hand. (I would do whatever you normally do when leading a followers right turn.) The raising of leader's left hand and lowering of leader's right is the indication that a hammerlock is the move being called for and not a normal followers right turn. Of course sometimes I let the right hand go as and change the hammerlock into a normal turn when I'm playing around.

[Sagitta]

If you want a little combination that should work well for cuban style, I think...

FRom two handed open position, three 5th position/back breaks. On the 4th one use the back break as a wind up to do a 90 degrre left turn, letting your left hand slide and switching to holding the follower's right with your right hand. Follower stays in place for this half of teh basic 5-6-7/8. Then execute a followers right turn starting with a back break and switching hands. Then do sweetheart, (first half of basic) and get out of sweetheart by getting into a hammerlock (second half of basic). Then out of hammerlock, with a second spin of follower for additional oomph. To get back into closed you can slide up your right hand and do a big step on the 1st half of teh basic, or even better do a veil with your right hand, bringing the followers hand over your head on the slow. and slipping your right hand onto the followers back. Then on the second half of the basic do a CBL.

[DWise1]

I hate the thumb thing, too! I don't really care how the guy holds my hands, as long as his holds are fairly consistent so I know what to expect each time'round and NOT holding onto me limply or au contraire with a Vulcan death grip.

The thumb thing is almost universal for beginners. And it causes us guys a lot of trouble too. When the woman clamps down with her thumb, we can't lead her though most of the turns (I do mainly Lindy and WCS). And I remember leading one absolute beginner into her first turn; she grabbed my fingers tightly as she turned and I had to move very fast to keep getting a finger broken.

In the last series of Lindy classes, there was one beginner who almost literally was trying to use the Vulcan nerve pinch on me. Instead of resting her hand flat somewhere around the forward surface of my shoulder, she had it perched on fingertips between the shoulder and my neck. And the fingertips kept digging in. The pain didn't bother me that much, but it also made it difficult for her to let go in order to do a turn. I finally had to mention it to her and I haven't seen her since.

[Haz]

FRom two handed open position, three 5th position/back breaks. On the 4th one use the back break as a wind up to do a 90 degrre left turn, letting your left hand slide and switching to holding the follower's right with your right hand.

I know this'll sound like a stupid question but could someone explain a proper backbreak? Not finding too much help on the sites I have or google and can't exactly figure out what it means. Thanks.

[Sagitta]

Back break on 1, dancing on 1...take your body back instead of forward on the 1, making sure there is a weight change and that the foot is placed back instead of forward. (I talk of weight change as all too often people place their feet but don't move their body!! :( ) Back break can be done straight back or at angle to make the move more circular. Definitely circular when doing the continuous turns.

[Haz]

I thought it was typical to do the basic side step when dancing cuban? So the left foot is placed behind the right, rather then forward as is the normal step. Know of any video for this online?

[Sagitta]

I thought it was typical to do the basic side step when dancing cuban? So the left foot is placed behind the right, rather then forward as is the normal step. Know of any video for this online?

I think you're right there Haz. I'm not too sure, but I've seen people dance side to side, with a flick on the 4 and 8. Not sure in what context this side to side vs front and back motion is..., but for continuous turns I cannot execute unless I do back breaks. 5th position breaks where one first has the leader's left hand and follower's right hand between each other for one half a basic, and then leader's right and follower's left at the end of the other half of the basic, can be done, without back breaks.

(I just hope that what I am saying is correct...I still have been out latin dancing only one night in over a month and I'm pretty much a beginner to. Hopefully if I make a mistake another more knowledgable df member will chime in.)

[borikensalsero]

Friday night I danced with a beginner who was the total opposite of the death grip, she really had a completely different version of how to keep hand connection, one of the schools here in NY City teaches the open palm connection. Where both the leader and the follower have their hands opened and applying pressure to each other.

Well, I am really not used to the hold, plus when you are out social dancing I think both parties should go the “safer” way and use the “bent” fingers hold. At first I wanted to accommodate her by keeping my hand pressed against hers, but then I noticed that she didn’t have a command of the technique or the dance very well. So I actually placed my index on top of her hand to keep her from loosing the connection anytime I felt like she was about to loose my hand. It was rather funny as it was the only grip that I could come up with that would help me deal with her skills without having to do the thumb grip or a death grip. Hmmmm, If Haz hadn’t mention the grip I wouldn’t have even noticed that my grip automatically changed when I saw that we were about to loose connection because of the use of a technique I wasn’t used to.

[Haz]

Hehe...I'm right proud now that someone skilled actually used the grip ;). Even if I didn't come up with it, it's nice to know that there is a practical use for it :lol: . That palm pressure thing sounds like it could get mighty confusing. Both leader and follower would need to be used to it for anything with a more difficult leading movement wouldn't they?

[borikensalsero]

Hehe...I'm right proud now that someone skilled actually used the grip ;). Even if I didn't come up with it, it's nice to know that there is a practical use for it :lol: . That palm pressure thing sounds like it could get mighty confusing. Both leader and follower would need to be used to it for anything with a more difficult leading movement wouldn't they?

I used to do it with my lady sometimes along while back for spins, then after she explained that she felt a lot safer in a club environment if she had some kind of hold on my hand, I stopped doing it.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

Friday night I danced with a beginner who was the total opposite of the death grip, she really had a completely different version of how to keep hand connection, one of the schools here in NY City teaches the open palm connection. Where both the leader and the follower have their hands opened and applying pressure to each other.


This is what I used to do this about a year ago. It actually works fine if both parties apply just enough pressure to maintain the connection. The problem is that most girls don´t know how to do this. I used to get strange looks from some of them when I did this. They were afraid of loosing connection and flying away to a distant part of the dance floor... I stopped doing this and now use the bent fingers hold. The fright on their faces started to decrease... :wink:

Anyway, on those rare ocasions when I found a girl who knew how to apply the right amount of pressure, it felt REALLY good (better than the bent fingers hold oddly enough).

[Sagitta]

I agree with you there Mapleleaf Salsero! When done right I prefer the open palm connection over the other types of hand holds anytime. I feel more grounded...but, the majority of followers aren't comfortabel with it, so I don't do it.

[borikensalsero]

Here is one bad habit that I totally dislike when a leader does it.

I think it is called the "T-Stance", I don't know any name of any moves, well except the CBL. :D

Ok, why do guys feel that they have to have their hands up on to the level of the girl’s shoulders or heads when they are doing the T-Stance? Can't they see how uncomfortable it looks? Is it just me? or do we need to tell these guys to bring their arms down to waist level, palms up, and elbows not tucked in to their stomachs? God, it looks bad, and it has got to be so uncomfortable for the ladies...

I feel so bad when I see a girl trying to get good balance, and move sexy with their hands up in the air with their center of gravity all thrown out of whack... Guys smiling and girls looking like they are fighting for their life instead of dancing… Maybe it is just me, but heck, if I was a girl, I’d ask the dude to chill that I rather not do the T-Stance…

[Sabor]

ok boriken.. now all that remains for me to find out is.. what in funky muffins is a 'T-Stance'? :lol:.. unfortunately, i dont know the names of moves as well :wink:

[SDsalsaguy]

T-stance? I know a fair range of names but have never heard this one... :shock: :oops:

[borikensalsero]

lol... Hey, that is what I asked when my lady came for class talking about NY City salseros and T-Stance. I was, what the Heathro are you talking about? :lol:

A t-stance is when the male stops dancing, spreads his legs somewhat and puts arms out and somewhat widder than shoulder width giving the lady a base, one on which she holds the connection to his hands then starts doing shines while still holding to the guy as a base... God, I hope that was clear.

[SDsalsaguy]

Clear in that I know exactly what position you mean. But why in the world would anyone even think of calling that a T-stance??? :shock:

I mean seriously, wouldn't you think that a T-stance would describe something where your feet/legs were together (vs. more than shoulder width apart)? :?

[borikensalsero]

Clear in that I know exactly what position you mean. But why in the world would anyone even think of calling that a T-stance??? :shock:

I mean seriously, wouldn't you think that a T-stance would describe something where your feet/legs were together (vs. more than shoulder width apart)? :?

lol... I have no idea, I tried guessing what it was and couldn't come up with a thing... Looking from the bellybutton up it makes sense, but from the waist down... Hmmmmm Leaves a little to be desired.

I would call it the HULK stance :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Well, at least the H-stance! :lol:

[cocodrilo]

Me-oh-my! Don' t call it the "H stance" in Japan! "H" means to have sex over here!!!! :lol:

[danceguy]

Kung Fu moves? I would LOVE to see those!

Ask and ye shall receive! Below are just a few of the secret and deadly techniques of the clan of Kung Fu Ninja Salseras.

Salseros, beware! :shock: :oops: :shock:

The Spinning Elbow of Doom

This particularly devasting technique can be hidden away during a simple spin. The key point to this Ninja move is to remember not to keep your elbow close to your body. All you have to do is focus on your elbow flailing outwards as you finish your spin, and then let the guy have it! Remember, he's the leader so its his fault if he gets some broken teeth! :roll:

The Iron Aikido Grip of Death

Since we all know that lack of proper dance frame is a common problem from both male and female beginners, one way to rectify this is to hold onto your partner as tightly as possible. Remember, he is a tough, brute man who loves nothing better than than to have imprints of your Lee Press On's in his skin. If you keep your grip tight enough, you can easily anticipate his lead and quickly twirl off his arm and execute the Spinning Elbow of Doom. This quick and lighting fast combonation will lay even the biggest and strongest Salsero out cold! :lol:

The Flying Kabuki Hair Lash

This move is especially useful if a guy is getting too fresh with you. But to really make full use of this dreaded technique, having very long hair is essential. Keep your hair long and free flowing, and make sure to put some extra hairspray on for that extra wonderful stinging effect.

During any point in time where you are spinning quickly or doing some sexy styling, simply whip your hair into your partner's face. Remember, the longer the better, and aim for his eyes if you made sure to apply lots of hairspray. This will stun even the most seasoned Salsero, and leave him helpless before you so you can apply the technique below.

The Super Stomping Spiked Heels

This quick and extremely painful Kung Fu move can be applied at anytime. Simply stomp on your partner's foot with your pointed heels, which will cause him a significant amount of pain. Remember to dig in those heels for some extra damage, and rest assured if the guy is a groper, smelly or just a plain ol' jerk, he won't be asking you for another dance anytime soon! :D

This concludes our lesson today on Salsa Ninja Kung Fu. Until next time!

ScorpionGuy

[cocodrilo]

Hilarious, Scorpion guy! :lol:
I've already had a little training with a couple of those moves- the elbow technique I have practiced with my instructor on several occaisions and the Kabuki Hairlashing, well, I have a tress down to my hips so guys get that whether they ask for it or not! Once I made a braid(read: "whip") which resulted in continuous lashing of the guy I was dancing with at the time! Some guys I have danced with suggested they would wear goggles the next time, others get a kick out of "acting" lashed each time the hair comes around(this must be fun to watch!)...
Ha :lol: Ha :lol: Ha :lol: !!!

[D-spot]

Me-oh-my! Don' t call it the "H stance" in Japan! "H" means to have sex over here!!!! :lol:

Good pick-up line, and blame it on linguistic skills if it goes belly up.
D-spot
(strokes the palm, apparently in Italy it means something specific)

[squirrel]

SG, nice moves... I can apply them with a guy whose only purpose seems to be to press his body to mine during dancing... some of the moves are so good... they never invite me again!