View Full Version : Can I dance pro as an amateur?
tangoking
09-11-2008, 09:03 PM
I have a lady friend who is an excellent dancer. She started teaching at FADS when she was only 17 years old, and now can't dance amateur. I have never taught, still have amateur status. I would like to compete with this lovely lady, but want to maintain my amateur status.
If we dance pro/am, the judges will just base their marks on the guys, right? I want us to be judged as a couple. That leaves pro/pro. Can I dance in a pro/pro comp and stay an amateur?
Good questions tangoking
Judging pro/am - only the pro/am student is judged in single dance events - as you move up and enter scholarships, etc., the couple will be judged.
I believe once you compete as a pro or declare yourself a pro, you're a pro (we'll need some others to weigh in here on that).
Another option is for the lady to petition USA Dance to become an amateur - assuming this is granted, then you two could compete as an amateur couple.
Depends on your choices of livelihood vs being a couple . . . choices . . .
SDsalsaguy
09-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Dancing as a pro makes you a pro! (NDCA, USA Dance, IDSF, WDC, etc., all agree on this point)
Laura
09-11-2008, 10:48 PM
If we dance pro/am, the judges will just base their marks on the guys, right? I want us to be judged as a couple.
Then enter the Open-level events -- if you're in Open Gold, Gold Star, Gold Bar, or Advanced, and especially if you do the Open Championships and Scholarships, then the Pro/Am couple is judged as a unit.
Your other options are to turn pro, or for her to try to reinstate into being an Amateur.
tangoking
09-11-2008, 11:47 PM
Thanks for your responses!
_malakawa_
09-12-2008, 01:45 PM
Then enter the Open-level events -- if you're in Open Gold, Gold Star, Gold Bar, or Advanced, and especially if you do the Open Championships and Scholarships, then the Pro/Am couple is judged as a unit.
Your other options are to turn pro, or for her to try to reinstate into being an Amateur.
:confused:
they told me differently. If you are dancing open or close and you are dancing Pro/Am they will mark only Am.
Laura
09-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Well, I'm just going by what I've been told after having 10 years experience in NDCA competitions. Your chain might be different...so I guess if Tangoking wants to stay in the FADS system, then his choice is to turn pro. But if he goes on the outside, then there are more options.
_malakawa_
09-12-2008, 02:40 PM
Well, I'm just going by what I've been told after having 10 years experience in NDCA competitions. Your chain might be different...so I guess if Tangoking wants to stay in the FADS system, then his choice is to turn pro. But if he goes on the outside, then there are more options.
;)
truth.
Standarddancer
09-12-2008, 04:23 PM
Assuming probably this girl doesn't want to stay in FADS anymore and even though she had competed in some comps as pro, might still be able to re-instate as amateur unless she won some major titles such as National RS first place.
Laura
09-12-2008, 05:12 PM
might still be able to re-instate as amateur unless she won some major titles such as National RS first place.
And even that hasn't proven to be a hinderence in the past.
Standarddancer
09-14-2008, 08:54 PM
lol. I know what you are talking about. let's don't get into detail of that since it's sensitive topic and very much likely to open a can of worm
elisedance
10-13-2008, 02:35 AM
OK so I went to a competition a few weeks ago and there was a lady dancer who both partnered pro/am students AND competed as the student in a pro/am with a pro (a studio owner).
So how can that happen???
Non-sanctioned comp maybe?
elisedance
10-13-2008, 02:51 AM
Nope - this one was...
Looks like someone was breaking the rules then.:) It's one thing to compete as an am, but be teaching out in the world. It's even one thing to compete as an am at comp A and a pro at comp B. But pretty audacious to do it at one comp.
elisedance
10-13-2008, 03:00 AM
It was so obvious I'm actually scared to ask. Probably I should leave it alone but find it hard to do that :rolleyes:
elisedance
10-13-2008, 03:26 AM
Thinking about it a bit, I can only presume that she is an amateur but was standing in for a pro. Probably kosher for a small competition.
Are you sure she wasn't dancing "student/student" with the other students?
elisedance
10-13-2008, 07:27 AM
Good question Joe - maybe thats the (partial) answer. How could one tell? However, she also entered in the showcase with two students, was listed in the same slate and stood in the same line up as the rest of the pro/ams at the end...
Larinda McRaven
10-13-2008, 08:28 AM
It doesn't happen. You are mistaken in what you assume her role was.
Student/Student is more likely. And the youth circut has a "singles" division that can be very confusing for someone who doesn't know what is going on as well.
If you can provide and name and a place and a heat list... it can be explained.
Ahhhh, student/student. I was thinking she might have been dancing amateur, but seemed like that would have been different heats. But totally forgot the student/student angle. Once again Larinda finds us an innocent explanation when we're looking for evil! Mean Larinda, why must you ruin all of our conspiracy theories?:p:)
etp777
10-13-2008, 03:56 PM
She still hasn't ruined our conspiracy theories about the economy. :) In fact, was encouraging them. ;)
Larinda McRaven
10-13-2008, 04:01 PM
http://i.pbase.com/o4/70/681170/1/63050093.2kMeq9Ah.Evilsmiley.gif
evil... just plain evil!
etp777
10-13-2008, 04:02 PM
hahaha. You can pretend all you want Larinda, but dogs are much better judges of character than people are, and Isabelle wouldn't stick with someone evil. :)
Which reminds me, time to take a quick shower and then go visit "my" (aka parents' and sister's) dogs. :)
hahaha. You can pretend all you want Larinda, but dogs are much better judges of character than people are, and Isabelle wouldn't stick with someone evil.
Ah, you must not be part of the DNRC:
http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/dnrc/
elisedance
10-13-2008, 05:07 PM
Ahhhh, student/student. I was thinking she might have been dancing amateur, but seemed like that would have been different heats. But totally forgot the student/student angle. Once again Larinda finds us an innocent explanation when we're looking for evil! Mean Larinda, why must you ruin all of our conspiracy theories?:p:)
I think Joe raised the possibility first - but if that was the case they would not be in the same awards as the pro-ams (of six couples she danced with two and the others were all pro/am). She took fourth and six wth her partners. Or can showcase be pro/am-student/student??
Larinda McRaven
10-13-2008, 07:05 PM
Again, you are going to need to show us the heat list because I can't follow your explaination.
elisedance
10-13-2008, 08:20 PM
Sorry, I don't want to share the heat list Lrinda, thats not fair on the competitors or the organizers and I simply don't want to stir things up that much.
Perhaps we should just foget it.
Larinda McRaven
10-13-2008, 08:34 PM
I guess we have to forget it because if you are unwilling to back up your statement there is no use trying to guess what you are alleging.
elisedance
10-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Exactly Larinda, thanks for being so understanding :)
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how rules violations are perpetuated... :rolleyes:
elisedance
10-14-2008, 07:03 AM
Sorry Joe, I'm not sure what you mean.
Spotters of potential violations who are afraid to point them out...
I wouldn't say "afraid to point them out." I would say, being cautious not to cry wolf and risk discrediting an innocent wolf. (Does that mixed metaphor make sense to those that haven't been awake all night?)
Thing is, if this really was a rule violation, it was obvious enough that someone in charge at this thing should have noticed. So I have to believe that it was either something that can be written off with an innocent explanation, or it was a rule violation but the organizers wouldn't care if someone did report it.
elisedance
10-14-2008, 07:53 AM
Thanks Wooh, exactly. And Joe, IMO its not a good idea to immediately assume that something has no validity just because someone will not go into details. I had listed the actual competitors, as requested, I would almost certainly have been in violation of DF rules.
Please be assured that backing off was an act of discresion not a retraction - and I would have hoped that you would know me better than that by now. Indeed, if you really would like more details then please contact me by my personal email (not through DF) - its on my page.
You don't need to post anyone's name in order to post full details. "Couple 345 danced Heat X, Heat Y, and Heat Z at Competition ABC. The results are available at Website PDQ." That is not gossip nor speculation. Obviously, their names will become known, but once it is determined whether or not there is any shadiness, they will either be cleared as sandbaggers or outed.
elisedance
10-15-2008, 07:43 AM
I was simply raising an anomaly to see if anyone had any ideas to explain it, not to run a kangaroo court and pass judgement, as you suggest. Indeed, to a point that worked as planned - you came up with the suggestion that I had not considered that they were a student-student couple. Unfortunately, when I went over the heats that did could not explain the whole scenario.
Since I also pointed out that I wanted to treat this with some delicacy - and to ensure that there were NO accusations - it would have been nice if corresponders on the issue had respected that wish. Once additional details - ones that I did not want to divulge - were requested I very politely withdrew the issue from discussion. I would appreciate it if you could respect that wish.
I will be careful not to do the same again - either to ask for advice on a sensitive issue as that is obviously hard to sustain, or, on my part, to raise something that I can not (will not?) fully expound on as I now realize that what I did was really a teaser: initiating a discussion that because of my limitations could not be resolved.
Perhaps we can leave it at that?
Standarddancer
10-15-2008, 09:27 AM
for issues like that, pm or email works better than public forum discussion.
elisedance
10-15-2008, 10:49 AM
Absolutely SD - but if the die is cast publically, then it has to be recast so too.
Larinda McRaven
10-15-2008, 01:15 PM
Well pointing to the heat lists is not really outing anyone, they are publicly available regardless.
I was asking to see them more so that I could help you understand what you are looking at.
elisedance
10-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Perhaps I can get an electronic version to forward of list. Its not just their privacy I want to respect, its also my own ;)
Standarddancer
10-15-2008, 02:56 PM
probably send an pm to Larinda or Joe for heat lists since they volunteered to help?
elise, I understand your concern, you don't want the person to be able to know you are the one who pointed them out (although no names mentioned, but still it's indirectly pointed at someone if the person in question reads this forum). that's why pm or email better - email recipients might help to address your question and the person in question won't be able to "track you down"? ;)
elisedance
10-15-2008, 03:02 PM
probably send an pm to Larinda or Joe for heat lists since they volunteered to help?
elise, I understand your concern, you don't want the person to be able to know you are the one who pointed them out (although no names mentioned, but still it's indirectly pointed at someone if the person in question reads this forum). that's why pm or email better - email recipients might help to address your question and the person in question won't be able to "track you down"? ;)
Exactly SD. Dance communities are small and rather sensitive.
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