Reply to Cometa -Non Dancing Partners

[el_de_la_esquina_rosada]

Dear Colometa,
I read your post, and I decided to start a new thread as I have a very different view and experience than most of the replies that you got.
My opinion is shaped by my own experience and my observations about what goes in the tango communities that I have attended.
Your fears are justified. One of the main purposes of Tango during its origins was to win the affection of women. People kept doing Tango because it worked for this purposes. Tango can be a very powerfull means of seducing women. Many people might tango for different reasons now, but this element remains there in this dance.
Tango can be very sensual and sexual and the dancers themselves are the only ones that might know of this. This will not happen in every dance and with every dancer, but it will certainly happen with at least a few of them. My friends and I have had all sorts of relationships (for romance, for fun, for only sex, etc) that have started with a "special" tango tanda. Many of these relationships were with not single women, and many of my friends had other relationships on the go. It is very easy to fall and get enticed into one of them after an argument or difficult period with your girlfriend.
Tango is simply a high risk activity for relationships. I have seen a lot of infedelities. I do not seriously date in the tango community.

[newbie]

I've seen several couples forming among pupils during my BR years. In AT I still have too see it happen. Seduction in AT is a roleplay game. "A three-minute date and then it's over."

[calandra]

Dear Colometa,
I read your post, and I decided to start a new thread as I have a very different view and experience than most of the replies that you got.
My opinion is shaped by my own experience and my observations about what goes in the tango communities that I have attended.
Your fears are justified. One of the main purposes of Tango during its origins was to win the affection of women. People kept doing Tango because it worked for this purposes. Tango can be a very powerfull means of seducing women. Many people might tango for different reasons now, but this element remains there in this dance.
Tango can be very sensual and sexual and the dancers themselves are the only ones that might know of this. This will not happen in every dance and with every dancer, but it will certainly happen with at least a few of them. My friends and I have had all sorts of relationships (for romance, for fun, for only sex, etc) that have started with a "special" tango tanda. Many of these relationships were with not single women, and many of my friends had other relationships on the go. It is very easy to fall and get enticed into one of them after an argument or difficult period with your girlfriend.
Tango is simply a high risk activity for relationships. I have seen a lot of infedelities. I do not seriously date in the tango community.

Are you bragging here, or actually trying to be helpful to the original poster who may or may not have a relationship that will survive tango, but is unlikely to have much confidence inspired by your 'experience'. Of course, if people are 'seducible' then that risk is out there. I agree it can happen. But to have 'many relationships' with 'not single women' points to a particular kind of man, who also, I agree is out there, (and perhaps more so on the tango scene). You don't say where you're from - I think things might be different in places like Argentina, etc. But last time I checked, in the average 'moral universe', infidelity is frowned upon. I don't think that tango should be used as some kind of 'excuse' (oh, I had a particulary hot/sexy/well-connected dance, etc. so it's ok) for that type of behavior by either sex.

[nucat78]

A man and a woman alone together is potentially a high risk activity, no matter what they're doing, whether it's tango, traveling, working on a project or ballroom dancing. If both parties want to seduce / be seduced, it will most likely happen.

Perhaps the individuals at your venues are more in the mind for dalliances than dancing.

[samina]

Are you bragging here, ... to have 'many relationships' with 'not single women' points to a particular kind of man

good points, calandra.

it is not "tango" that's to blame. what a sorry excuse...it is the dancers' beliefs, values, and choices. *period*. there is never, ever any other reason for those occurrences. if someone seeks out AT for either the potential thrill or opportunity to transgress, that's a personal choice.

[nucat78]

I wonder how many people have negative attitudes toward dancing or are jealous of dancing spouses, etc because of the continuing misperception that it's a "pick-up game".

When I was in high school we went to dances to pick up girls. Same for college. When my ex-SO went to few dances with a friend of hers and I couldn't go, I admit I was miffed, thinking there'd be guys crawling all over her. It was only after we started ballroom together that I realized how wrong my perception was.

[jennyisdancing]

I wonder how many people have negative attitudes toward dancing or are jealous of dancing spouses, etc because of the continuing misperception that it's a "pick-up game".

When I was in high school we went to dances to pick up girls. Same for college. When my ex-SO went to few dances with a friend of hers and I couldn't go, I admit I was miffed, thinking there'd be guys crawling all over her. It was only after we started ballroom together that I realized how wrong my perception was.

Common public perception of dancing is exactly as yours used to be, nucat. School dances and freestyle club dancing are dating/pickup scenes, and that's what the vast majority of people are familiar with. So naturally they assume that the other kinds of dances (i.e. AT, ballroom, etc.) are the same way. It doesn't help that most popular films depict dance scenes as romance or seduction - tango in particular goes all the way back to the silents with Rudy Valentino.

Whenever I talk to non-dance people about my dancing, I always have to explain this aspect. They are surprised to hear that even married people can go dancing and be with various partners throughout the evening.

[Indiana_Jay]

Whenever I talk to non-dance people about my dancing, I always have to explain this aspect. They are surprised to hear that even married people can go dancing and be with various partners throughout the evening.

Likewise, I often find myself using the phrase, "dancing for its own sake."

[Angel HI]

Esquina Rosada,

First let me welcome you to the DF. Secondly, having meant that sincerely, I, as has everyone else here, believe your post to be absurd. Samina's post sums it up again nicely,

"...it is not "tango" that's to blame. what a sorry excuse...it is the dancers' beliefs, values, and choices. *period*. there is never, ever any other reason for those occurrences. if someone seeks out AT for either the potential thrill or opportunity to transgress, that's a personal choice..."

[Heather2007]

It is very easy to fall and get enticed into one of them after an argument or difficult period with your girlfriend.
Tango is simply a high risk activity for relationships. I have seen a lot of infedelities. I do not seriously date in the tango community.

Although I did not entirely disagree with all what you said, I will state (again and again), however, that Tango, like work, like shopping, like the pub, the gym and yes, dare I say it the other woman or man is never the cause of a relationship going south but as a result of. And personally for me, there simply is not enough time in the day for me to babysit somebody's insecurity (which is what jealousy is). And the first hint of any man exhibiting green monster tendandies - I'm off.

:rolleyes:Anyway, where are all these so called beautiful people in tango worth jacking in your present relationship for - I am yet to see any:lol:

[dchester]

Whenever I talk to non-dance people about my dancing, I always have to explain this aspect. They are surprised to hear that even married people can go dancing and be with various partners throughout the evening. Here is my observation. When my wife has lots of dances with other people, she is often feeling amorous when we get home, and I benefit from it. So sometimes I'll actually ask friends to go ask her to dance.

:cool:

[calandra]

Dear Colometa,
I have seen a lot of infedelities. I do not seriously date in the tango community.

The implication being that you 'seriously' date elsewhere and just screw in the tango community? How sad!

[Me]

The implication being that you 'seriously' date elsewhere and just screw in the tango community? How sad!

I was thinking the same thing. :(

[Heather2007]

The implication being that you 'seriously' date elsewhere and just screw in the tango community? How sad!

To be fair - how is this person's behaviour any different to that of one who only limits their shagging sessions to say, a nightclub, a pub, another area of the city, the gym, East European city breakaways (yep, I know guys...), office after-hours etc. That he/she limits their behaviour to the tango community should not make it any more distasteful, should it? How is the Tango Community any different to another social community? And of course, I use the word "distasteful". Is it? If such behavour involves two consenting adults? What is sad, is the sadness of the tone of the original post (Colameta?) and the sadness in the soul of that of the jealous lover?

[Angel HI]

I have to agree with Heather. Let's not get off topic. The shallowness of the OP's beliefs about AT depicts a sadness that is another issue. Psyhcoanalyzing her whys or wheres is counterproductive. At the risk of appearing 'whatever', let me quote my earlier post.....

Esquina Rosada,

"...it is not "tango" that's to blame. what a sorry excuse...it is the dancers' beliefs, values, and choices. *period*. there is never, ever any other reason for those occurrences. if someone seeks out AT for either the potential thrill or opportunity to transgress, that's a personal choice..."

Incidentally, d'chester, ....

Here is my observation. When my wife has lots of dances with other people, she is often feeling amorous when we get home, and I benefit from it. So sometimes I'll actually ask friends to go ask her to dance.

:cool:

LOL. :rocker:

[tangonuevo]

It seems that the thread has lost the thread of the original question. Non-dancing & dancing partners. I dance, my GF dances, we both get it and know that it is 'just a dance' and that 'just a dance' can be/is very fun. We dance socially and think nothing of it. If I am out of town, she goes dancing without me. No big deal.

However, for a non-dancing partner it can be outlandishly difficult to get that it is just a dance! And even if it is, why would my life partner rather spend his/her free evenings in the arms of another? What's wrong with bowling? Or golf?

I have seen quite a number of dancers either quit dancing or quit their life partner over this conflict. I beg of you not to minimize the possibility for hurt. That is an unfair representation to those who might have real fears over the dancing/non-dancing situation.

[Angel HI]

It seems that the thread has lost the thread of the original question. Non-dancing & dancing partners. I beg of you not to minimize the possibility for hurt. That is an unfair representation to those who might have real fears over the dancing/non-dancing situation.

Noble and true as your post might be, you are in error. The OP posted....

One of the main purposes of Tango during its origins was to win the affection of women.

Many people might tango for different reasons now, but this element remains there in this dance.

Tango can be very sensual and sexual ....it will certainly happen with at least a few of them. My friends and I have had all sorts of relationships (for romance, for fun, for only sex, etc) that have started with a "special" tango tanda. Many of these relationships were with not single women, and many of my friends had other relationships on the go.

Tango is simply a high risk activity for relationships. I have seen a lot of infedelities. I do not seriously date in the tango community.

This post is absurd. Tango is not danced for the explicit purpose of seducing and picking up women. Tango communities are not disguised sexual communes for married men looking for single girls who might be friends of the OP. The OP haas issues with something that has little to do w/ tango.

Heaher wrote: "...Tango, like work, like shopping, like the pub, the gym and yes, dare I say it the other woman or man is never the cause of a relationship going south but as a result of." This is the bottom line, and the best reply to the OP.

On a personal note, I find it interesting that the OP hasn't returned. :rolleyes:

[Heather2007]

I have seen quite a number of dancers either quit dancing or quit their life partner over this conflict. I beg of you not to minimize the possibility for hurt. That is an unfair representation to those who might have real fears over the dancing/non-dancing situation.

Any fear of one's partner dancing with another has nothing whatsoever to do with Tango but an issue which they brought into their relationship at the outset. Said issue being borne out of childhood trauma etc. or past relationship etc. There is absolutely no room for jealousy, possession, obsession in a relationship. Be it between friends, siblings, co-workers and you're intimate partner. It is negative and destructive and needs to be worked on either through oneself or that another. "My partner dancing with another..." is just an excuse to mask the deep insecurities that lies within.

[calandra]

However, for a non-dancing partner it can be outlandishly difficult to get that it is just a dance! And even if it is, why would my life partner rather spend his/her free evenings in the arms of another? What's wrong with bowling? Or golf?

I have seen quite a number of dancers either quit dancing or quit their life partner over this conflict. I beg of you not to minimize the possibility for hurt. That is an unfair representation to those who might have real fears over the dancing/non-dancing situation.

I do agree that social dance where there is physical contact between strangers (unlike the gym, office, golf, etc.) does have a slightly higher risk of 'the appearance of impropriety'. Just because one person is not there to meet someone, doesn't mean that a random person they dance with is in the same position. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the person in a relationship is free to walk away and leave the person looking for love to find someone else who is looking. If a romance blossoms - then great! And while there may (?) be a larger percentage of single people looking for love on the tango scene than the gym/golf/office and people are free to do what they like between consenting adults, I found the original poster's (of this thread) implication that women on the tango scene were somehow more promiscuous and therefore only worth sleeping with, not getting into a more serious relationship with, to be absurd.

On the Original Original Poster's dilemma, I think that while in the best of all possible worlds, jealousy would not be part of human nature, it is. Everyone's situation is different, and there is the capacity for hurt whenever a partner in a relationship is spending an inordinate amount of time doing something outside or detrimental to the relationship, or otherwise making the other person feel under-valued.
I think this is a problem for both people in the relationship, not just the person who happens to be feeling jealous (and I'm referring to a normal person with justified jealousy, not a paranoid).

Whew... wasn't expecting to read a psychological discourse this morning.

[Me]

Yes, I agree - very strange that they have not returned.


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b268/iloveseverus/troll-web.jpg

[Zoopsia59]

Noble and true as your post might be, you are in error. The OP posted....


I think Tangonuevo may have been refering to the poster (Colometa) who started this discussion in another thread by asking the question in the first place. The one the starter of this thread was responding to. At least that was MY impression.

[tangonuevo]

I think Tangonuevo may have been refering to the poster (Colometa) who started this discussion in another thread by asking the question in the first place. The one the starter of this thread was responding to. At least that was MY impression.
Yes, indeed. I felt that the original dancing-nondancing partner question was still important, was still contained within this thread, and I wanted to comment given the pain that I have seen come from this situation irrespective of whether we are talking AT, WCS, or whatever.

[Angel HI]

I think Tangonuevo may have been refering to the poster (Colometa) who started this discussion in another thread by asking the question in the first place. The one the starter of this thread was responding to. At least that was MY impression.

I understood, but thought being that the former issue was not specifically mentioned, and the first post took a different stand, that it would be confusing to mix the two. Colmeta's post was about jealousies/hurt; Esquina Rosada's was appalling and insulting.