Follower's Embellishments

[Zoopsia59]

So.. here's the thread. Questions? Suggestions? Comments?

(From Jenny's post in another thread)
One of the workshops was Maria teaching embellishments. She had us go through some exercises where we practiced various moves solo. I guess I was hoping she would have us do the embellishments with partners, so we could get a clear idea of when to use them appropriately, i.e. not disturbing the lead, which other steps should we use them with, etc.

I don't mean that as a criticism necessarily because, as said above, her workshop may simply have been better suited for someone more advanced? I presume a more advanced person would already know when to use embellishments and would have benefited just from learning the specifics as provided in the solo exercises

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

I picked most of mine watching other people, and from videos. A few came out of screw-ups :)

[Zoopsia59]

One of the workshops was Maria teaching embellishments. She had us go through some exercises where we practiced various moves solo. I guess I was hoping she would have us do the embellishments with partners, so we could get a clear idea of when to use them appropriately, i.e. not disturbing the lead, which other steps should we use them with, etc.

I don't mean that as a criticism necessarily because, as said above, her workshop may simply have been better suited for someone more advanced? I presume a more advanced person would already know when to use embellishments and would have benefited just from learning the specifics as provided in the solo exercises

I teach embellishments solo also (although it is useful to give people ideas about where to put them)

There are a variety of easy general embellishment type things... beats in front or back, taps... etc. What I have found when teaching the followers who want to embellish and have not been successful with it is that they can't do them because of some combination of the following that has little to do with not knowing where to put them:

They haven't developed the proper technique habits to be in enough control ie:

They aren't getting their weight transfered completely or quickly.

They don't collect or pass through middle (which is where some of the easiest embellishments occur)

They either don't hear the beats between the beats in the rhythm, or in fact haven't really thought that much about the music and are just letting the leader deal with it.

They just aren't used to moving fast enough (which is made worse by dancing with leaders who ignore the music and just drift around slowly because they can't figure out what they are doing)

They think the embellishment is about the foot. They try to control the foot rather than the leg from the hip and their leg isn't really in their control.

All these things can be practiced alone. I wonder how many followers ever just put on the music at home and dance around their kitchen to it without worrying about remembering any "moves" or "steps". Just play with the music for fun. I do it all the time. But I've talked to people who "dont know what to do" when they play the music at home.

The one thing that is a given about embellishments is that unless you are going to limit yourself to doing them only during moves where the leader has to wait for you anyway (like stepping over his planted foot) you're going to have to be able to move quickly. I don't see alot of teachers getting people (leaders or followers) to move briskly and energetically. The more complicated the class's "step" gets the slower it all seems to get. I guess that's natural, but around here, many of the people haven't yet learned to do even the simplist things and keep up with the music so I don't think they should be moving on to a complicated pattern.

Some embellishments involve making the move you are led bigger, but many of them happen between led moves and you have to be able to either get in and get out, or abort.

You probably don't know where to put them because you don't see where you have time. But you actually have time everytime the leader only leads a "slow". But you have to hustle!

[Zoopsia59]

when to use them appropriately, i.e. not disturbing the lead, which other steps should we use them with, etc.

About the easiest most natural place to stick in a small embellishment is when you are passing through collected middle during a step. If you are reaching back, its pretty natural to do a little beat at the ankle in front (cross the leg) before continuing on back. If you are reaching forward, you can do the beat in back as your leg comes through.

These are also easy to stick in during ochos because of the natural movement in a pivoting ocho.

you can also do the reverse (beat in back as you reach from front to back or beat in front as you reach from back to front) but that seems much harder for most people.

You can also do a tap in back with your back foot as you take weight off it for a forward step, or tap in middle as you go through middle on any step (I find the horizontal beats much easier than moving my leg or foot vertically for a tap in the middle, but that might just be me)

Try those ideas and see how it goes for you. Remember, you do this on the quick beat (half beat) when led on the slow beats. You probably can't fit an embellishment in when you are stepping on quicks. So if your leader leads the cross as a quick-quick, you're not going to be embellishing while you are getting there. But if he leads the side to the right and back on the left as slows, you can do a beat in front with your right as you collect with it after the back step on your left. (So easy to show... so hard to talk about!)

make sense?

[mshedgehog]

I think the advice above is spot on.

More specifically from my own experience - as a beginner I decided that embellishments were supposed to be my personal self-expressive response to the music and the lead. I wanted that to be entirely mine, and I felt I might need quite a lot of time to develop such a response. So I deliberately decided I would not think about them at all until I found I actually wanted to do one in a specific place. Then I thought I would go and ask someone how to achieve it physically.

But after a while, when I had got my balance and some confidence and wasn't feeling rushed, and having completely forgotten about the whole question, I found that the simple ones - just the little taps with the free leg in between steps - started happening naturally all by themselves. I was not aware of wanting to do them. They are just there in the music, and I was enjoying dancing around to the music, and I just went - oh! Where did that come from? Pompity pompity pom.

They were very shy at first, and they are still fairly modest, I suppose, I am no knee-waver, but it is like daisies growing in grass, sometimes you get quite a few.

Once that happened, I watched a few videos of ones I couldn't do, and tried to work out what would have to happen in my technique so that they felt as natural as the little taps. That's what the great advice above is about.

I hadn't thought about where they go in terms of steps. Little taps happen naturally when I am asked to step forward, and circles and squiggles happen in pauses. I personally do a lot more taps than squiggles, because I just like them more, and anyway a lot of pauses are pauses because there's a pause, and I don't particularly feel like filling it with squiggle.

The only one I can think of that goes strongly with a specific step, for me, is that a beat-in-front happens very naturally between the back step and the side step of a turn. It was a long time before I could do this at all, then suddenly I found out what to do with my free hip, and now it seems so natural I have to remind myself to leave it out sometimes. I am annoyed that it's become habitual and I have in the back of my mind that I should allow it to happen somewhere else - anywhere else! So it doesn't become amusical, unexpressive and pointless.

I want to only do them when the music makes me feel like it. Otherwise I prefer to leave them out. I think that the decision whether to do one at any specific time is a very personal, aesthetic, musical decision which I make among whatever options I have, given my skill level. And I really feel strongly about it being completely mine.

You can see that story depended a lot on my learning style - so of course it would be quite different for you and this might be totally useless.

[calandra]

Quote: All these things can be practiced alone. I wonder how many followers ever just put on the music at home and dance around their kitchen to it without worrying about remembering any "moves" or "steps". Just play with the music for fun. I do it all the time. But I've talked to people who "dont know what to do" when they play the music at home.


I'm 100% in agreement with this. You can accomplish a lot with a wall, or even just walking around in your tango shoes. I have a normal 'practice' routine for embellishments that lasts about 4-6 songs (walking, taps, foot flexes, crosses, spins, boleos & loads more) then usually do 'freestyle' for a few more songs. I've learned the embellishments in class, or watching other people at milongas, or making them up, and when you've practiced them enough, it begins to come naturally where to put them in. It's all about muscle memory - there are enough things to think about when dancing with a partner, so the more you practice the embellishments on your own, the easier it is to put everything together.

[Heather2007]

Quote: All these things can be practiced alone. You can accomplish a lot with a wall, or even just walking around in your tango shoes. I have a normal 'practice' routine for embellishments that lasts about 4-6 songs (walking, taps, foot flexes, crosses, spins, boleos & loads more) then usually do 'freestyle' for a few more songs. I've learned the embellishments in class, or watching other people at milongas, or making them up, and when you've practiced them enough, it begins to come naturally where to put them in. It's all about muscle memory - there are enough things to think about when dancing with a partner, so the more you practice the embellishments on your own, the easier it is to put everything together.

Too true and absolutely!! I don't think I ever practiced any embellishment in anyclass. Just me, the broom, sometimes alone in the lift in front of the mirror. The empty stairwell, bus-stops (funny looks all around), sitting at my desk. I even got inspiration from watching cats:kitty:

____________________________________
Who has skill in the art of music is of good temperament and fitted for all things.
Luther, Martin

[Joe]

Doesn't Maleva have a series of videos of adornos?

[jennyisdancing]

Doesn't Maleva have a series of videos of adornos?

She does, and I've seen them...she's excellent but she moves very quickly and it's not shown in the context of dancing with a partner. I learn more from watching her and others dancing with partners, so I can see where the embellishments fit in with different steps, with the lead, and with the song.

And I do dance on my own at home, all the time, to every kind of music. I've done that since childhood. I hear the music and it's very clear to me where, musically, the accents are.

Again, for me it's not a musical question, it's a technical question - learning which kinds of moves might work well with certain types of steps, seeing a (slow motion) breakdown of it, and training my muscles to do it. I'm not saying that I want a rule of "do this embellishment with this step", but rather I just need to see examples, and I can develop my own style and choices as I get more comfortable.

[Heather2007]

A readable site I came across while surfing with Jenny in mind:together:

http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html (http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html)

[Zoopsia59]

A readable site I came across while surfing with Jenny in mind:together:

http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html (http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html)

Great article.

When it comes to tango, embellishing and the role of technique, I am reminded of the principle of Shibumi...

"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away"

[jennyisdancing]

A readable site I came across while surfing with Jenny in mind:together:

http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html (http://tangosalonadelaide.blogspot.com/2008/09/to-decorate-or-not-to-decorate.html)

Thanks - and I noted one of the comments on that article:

There is value in showing people common adornments or methods of adorning so that when the urge finally comes upon them they will have a basic lexicon that they can begin to express themselves with. Exactly what I have been trying to say. I need specifics, not things like "embellish when the spirit moves you", which is obvious. I just don't have the vocabulary nor the knowledge of how to use the vocabulary within a complete sentence.

Yes, I can pick up some by trial and error, but I will learn faster if shown methodically. I don't know of any local classes in my area where this is taught. That's why I took the workshop that I referred to. In the case of that workshop, we were given some vocabulary (actual embellishments), but not shown how to use it in a sentence (within a step) or in conversation (dancing with a partner).

[Lilly_of_the_valley]

Thanks - and I noted one of the comments on that article:

Exactly what I have been trying to say. I need specifics, not things like "embellish when the spirit moves you", which is obvious. I just don't have the vocabulary nor the knowledge of how to use the vocabulary within a complete sentence.

Yes, I can pick up some by trial and error, but I will learn faster if shown methodically. I don't know of any local classes in my area where this is taught. That's why I took the workshop that I referred to. In the case of that workshop, we were given some vocabulary (actual embellishments), but not shown how to use it in a sentence (within a step) or in conversation (dancing with a partner).

Do you have regular classes in your area that are taught by a couple? If you do, and the lady of the couple uses the embellishments in her dancing, big chances are, they introduce them in their classes, in a context. All our local instructors I have taken classes with, done that, at least to some extent.

[jennyisdancing]

Do you have regular classes in your area that are taught by a couple? If you do, and the lady of the couple uses the embellishments in her dancing, big chances are, they introduce them in their classes, in a context. All our local instructors I have taken classes with, done that, at least to some extent.

My most recent teacher, whom I like a lot, is a female, but she didn't go over embellishments much. The only one I remember is during a calesita, using your free leg to trace a circle. Really, none of my dance classes (tango or otherwise) spend much attention on teaching followers' styling. Nearly all the time is spent on the leaders' part, and a certain amount of follower's technique, but for styling, I usually have to seek out special workshops.

[Zoopsia59]

none of my dance classes (tango or otherwise) spend much attention on teaching followers' styling. Nearly all the time is spent on the leaders' part,.

This is EXACTLY why I decided to start teaching a class just for that. Too bad you aren't near my area... I need more students before the studio cancels me!

[dchester]

My most recent teacher, whom I like a lot, is a female, but she didn't go over embellishments much. The only one I remember is during a calesita, using your free leg to trace a circle. Really, none of my dance classes (tango or otherwise) spend much attention on teaching followers' styling. Nearly all the time is spent on the leaders' part, and a certain amount of follower's technique, but for styling, I usually have to seek out special workshops. That's because we usually need more help than you ladies do.

:(

[jennyisdancing]

That's because we usually need more help than you ladies do.

:(

:together:

Aw...I wasn't complaining. Believe me, the followers appreciate good leaders!

[Aurora]

MsHedgehog, I want to give you a huuuuge hug. You seem to have written exactly the post I would have written! I did just what you did - deliberately ignored embellishments until I felt much more confident with the basics, until one day I was doing little taps and things without thinking about it! I am just now getting to where I want to try learning other embellishments, but I still really like modest, sparse embellishments with a focus on being musical. Really, you wrote my reply for me. :)

The only thing I would add is that, as I consciously try to add more complicated embellishments to my repertoire, I tend to practice them a lot in practicas. I warn my leaders that I am experimenting, and then I go for it. Most embellishments are ones that I have seen in context, so I know where people usually put them and just have to work on fitting them in there myself.

- Modern Tanguera

[Angel HI]

I teach embellishments solo also (although it is useful to give people ideas about where to put them)

I, also, do classes, both solo and partnered, specifically for this. In the solo classes, we use a ballet barre to understand/develop the movement/s. In the partnered classes, we, of course, learn how to employ them.

These are great, and, IMO, warranted iteration:

What I have found when teaching the followers who want to embellish and have not been successful with it is that they can't do them because of some combination of the following that has little to do with not knowing where to put them:

They haven't developed the proper technique habits to be in enough control ie:

They aren't getting their weight transfered completely or quickly.

They don't collect or pass through middle (which is where some of the easiest embellishments occur)

They either don't hear the beats between the beats in the rhythm, or in fact haven't really thought that much about the music and are just letting the leader deal with it.

They just aren't used to moving fast enough (which is made worse by dancing with leaders who ignore the music and just drift around slowly because they can't figure out what they are doing)

They think the embellishment is about the foot. They try to control the foot rather than the leg from the hip and their leg isn't really in their control.

Some embellishments involve making the move you are led bigger, but many of them happen between led moves and you have to be able to either get in and get out, or abort.

(my red/bold)

I highlighlighted some b/c I find to be one of the few who seem to stress these points in "every" class...the important concept/understanding of "middle" in tango. Again, Zoops, it seems that you and I have some getting together to do. :D

[Joe]

not disturbing the lead
Actually, this is probably the absolute first thing you should teach about adornos.

[Zoopsia59]

Again, Zoops, it seems that you and I have some getting together to do. :D

Or we can just let it be a lifelong dream and never ruin the fantasy.
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Nah... lets get together....;)

[Steve Pastor]

Have to say that I like the way this thread has developed. There for a while I was plagued with women who seemed more interested in using me as a prop while they did adornments than they did in dancing tango with me.
Maybe that story won't be repeated ad infinitum.

[Ampster]

Examples of female embellishments. I think these feet belong to Jennifer Bratt

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[Joe]

I think Jennifer Bratt must be Imelda Marcos' lost daughter or something. :)