Amateur Partnership Goals

[Corne]

I consider myself lucky to have an amateur dance partner.

We have danced together for the last 6 months (or should i say our first 6 months) for the joy of dancing and to get comfortable with one another in the ever decreasing personal space of standard dancing. I recently found myself totally losing interest in dancing and realized that it is because we don't have a properly defined goal to work towards.

What have we been doing so far ? Working exclusively on waltz trying
to nail the standard dancing basics, hoping to apply it to the other standard dances as well.

Here is the (usual) problem, my partner doesn't think he is good enough, or should i rephrase that, we are good enough to compete/showcase yet. On the other hand, will we ever be ready enough ?

I am aware that several different types of goals exist for example showcases, competition and performances.
For the amateur couples out there, how did you work through this stage to get to the first comp/performance/showcase ? Did you set some mini-goals like knowing 3 dances before we compete or reaching
a certain level of partnership-maturity ? What were those goals ? What would be good goals to set ?

Keep in mind that it is a one-way funded dance partnership and all the restrictions that comes with it.

Is it maybe time to reconsider the value of this partnership ? :confused:

[JANATHOME]

I am probably not the best person to respond... but will anyway!!

I do AM/AM with my husband and I guess we have a whole other set of dynamics as far as partnership communications... We know how to read each other so well, when it is time to back off, bite your tounge and be silent and when it is time to be painfully honest with each other... But back on topic.

If we thought that we had to get to a certain level or "be ready" I dont think we would ever make our way onto a competition dance floor. It is always never good enough, there is always "if we just had one more month." For us it can never be about judges marks , if it was we would of walked away years ago from incredible disappointment, not to mention total embarrasment!!! The question is always did we improve from the last comp... if we can say yes, we did good.

Last week-end at comp we brought out a new smooth waltz, was it ready... good lord, no, not even close.... Some might of decided to go with the routine we know, one where we can easily adjust our line of dance to any mishaps that occurs on the floor... We did not.... Instead we learned where the issues will be with a crowded floor, what we need to work on harder.

We think, just do it... The risk is that you earn a repuation with the judges of ..how do I say "suck" nicely....To the point that even when you are at your best, you have to be 100% better to even get thier attention..... Each one of us has to make a decision if it is worth the risk, to us it is.

Wish you luck in your decision.

[BasicsFirst]

At a certain level, you could say "yes" you'll NEVER be ready. On the other hand, my philosophy is: "we are ALWAYS ready". Ready to do what WE can do.

When we started (competing that is), we set a date in preparation (a particular comp) about six months downwind. Come heck or high water we DID that comp. That same dance season we did EVERY comp within our metropolitan area. Over the years we've become selective by supporting only the comps and promoters that we like, but we don't need to do every comp anymore. But I certainly recommend it in the beginning.

I've heard rumblings of this before, so-and-so has a partner but isn't ready yet. Never did see them dance, (I'm thinking they're not partnered anymore). Only you'll be able to tell... once you're sure your partner will really NEVER be ready, then yes it might be time to have a conversation (and perhaps move on).

[mummsie]

I consider myself lucky to have an amateur dance partner.

We have danced together for the last 6 months (or should i say our first 6 months) for the joy of dancing and to get comfortable with one another in the ever decreasing personal space of standard dancing. I recently found myself totally losing interest in dancing and realized that it is because we don't have a properly defined goal to work towards.

What have we been doing so far ? Working exclusively on waltz trying
to nail the standard dancing basics, hoping to apply it to the other standard dances as well.

Here is the (usual) problem, my partner doesn't think he is good enough, or should i rephrase that, we are good enough to compete/showcase yet. On the other hand, will we ever be ready enough ?

I am aware that several different types of goals exist for example showcases, competition and performances.
For the amateur couples out there, how did you work through this stage to get to the first comp/performance/showcase ? Did you set some mini-goals like knowing 3 dances before we compete or reaching
a certain level of partnership-maturity ? What were those goals ? What would be good goals to set ?

Keep in mind that it is a one-way funded dance partnership and all the restrictions that comes with it.

Is it maybe time to reconsider the value of this partnership ? :confused:

If you wait until you are ready - you will never get on the floor. You need to basically decide that in xx months you will enter and do your first competition. If you stuff up - who cares - only you. There will be another comp a few weeks down the track. Its a learning and growing experience. Some of your routines will work in a comp situation some won't but you won't know until you get out there and try it. Then you can start modifying and improving. We had a big mess last weekend in our tango right in front of the judges when somebody banged into us. We just learn from experience. Last night in practice we did a work around in case the same things happens again so we can keep going; but unless you are in that situation how will you ever know.!!! :-) Get out there and do it. - mummsie

[Chris Stratton]

What have we been doing so far ? Working exclusively on waltz trying to nail the standard dancing basics, hoping to apply it to the other standard dances as well.

You need to be working on all of the dances that would be expected at the level you might enter. Typically that's Waltz, Tango, and Quickstep for Bronze, foxtrot coming in at Silver, and Vw usually being optional as a seperate even if it's even offered before Champ.

And not just because of competition - also so you don't go stir crazy doing nothing but waltz!

Here is the (usual) problem, my partner doesn't think he is good enough, or should i rephrase that, we are good enough to compete/showcase yet. On the other hand, will we ever be ready enough ?

My view is that the longer you wait, the higher your expectations will be. If you just go out and do it as soon as you are at the point where you can get around the floor without crashing, then you have a baseline - you trust each other because you know what happens when it count, and you know it can only get better. And usually that first time out isn't half bad.

The college kids who hit their first competition with about a month of total dance experience have the easiest introduction to it all. Of course it works even better in that case because their are huge numbers of beginner peers to fill up those entry level events; an adult couple away from a large college dance scene may not have as many opportunities to enter a contested entry-level event. And they'll have to pay more to do it. But the basic idea still holds - get out there and do it, before you've invested your expectations to the point where it becomes impossible.

[WaltzElf]

I have always competed within two months of forming a new partnership.

Are we ready to dance at that stage at a level we’re happy with? No. Are we going to win? No. Are we going to walk off the floor disappointed? Oh yes.


But the only way to stay inspired and continue working hard is to get that first comp out of the way, and then start to see and feel the improvements in later comps. Five months in with my new partner and we’re winning our level, feeling great, and, if anything, picking up the training hours (we now literally train from 6 pm when I finish work to 11 pm every week night and put in some epic hours on weekends when we’re not competing).


So to answer your question – you should be competing now. Don’t set a goal to “know” a set number of dances – you learn those as they come up in competition – in fact, I know a couple who put their Tango together 30 minutes before getting on the competition floor for Open Amateur. They got slaughtered in that comp, but now their Tango looks great and they’re making the OA finals.


Rather, set a goal for the standard you want to be dancing at within a certain time. My partner and I want to turn professional within 2 years. So we do every comp, regardless of how bad it feels at the time, and force ourselves to improve rapidly.

[elisedance]

Great question - one that every couple has to face. I agree with the above - the essential thing is to get the first comp out of the way. Once you've done that you've 'killed the beast' as it were - and you have discovered if competition really is your goal. The thing is not to make it too precious. I'm an older AM dancer and started with pro/am while my partner competed many years prior to us starting to dance together so we did at least know what it was like to go out on the big floor.

You don't mention your coach. This is an area where you need a good one - ideally one that has had competition experience. If your's has not you might think of taking a lesson or two with a competing pro and get their opinion.

By the way, if your area is anything like mine finding a dance partner is harder than finding a life one. Don't quit unless you are sure its not working. However, there is a possibility that your partner simply is not interested in competition and is avoiding the subject. If that is the case you are either going to have to seek other goals (they can be selfish such as improving your AM skills in the search for a more driven parther) or simply to use this parther for social dancing.

[Joe]

If you don't get out there and find out what your dancing is like under competition conditions, how are you going to have realistic expectations of what it should be, and a realistic goal of what you want to work towards?

[Standarddancer]

I tend to agree with Joe & Chris, just go out there and compete; have a simple nice flowing routine (no need to make it too complicated); just go out there thinking it will just be another "run-thru" practice; you need to see how yourself doing under a real competition condition to be able to access your real comp goals.

I"ve seen couples who started competing when they are still "early" in their partnership; sometimes first few times were sort of "disaster" but they did get so much better and made tremendous improvements over the time. The comp experience actually help them to mature faster.

[skwiggy]

Yup. Compete early and often. There is no substitute for experience.

[reb]

Yup. Compete early and often. There is no substitute for experience.

Ditto.

[wooh]

Keep in mind that it is a one-way funded dance partnership and all the restrictions that comes with it.

Is it maybe time to reconsider the value of this partnership ? :confused:

"one-way funded dance partnership"???:confused:

[SwingWaltz]

I consider myself lucky to have an amateur dance partner.

We have danced together for the last 6 months (or should i say our first 6 months) for the joy of dancing and to get comfortable with one another in the ever decreasing personal space of standard dancing. I recently found myself totally losing interest in dancing and realized that it is because we don't have a properly defined goal to work towards.

Good to hear that you have found a partner you enjoy dancing with and you two are getting along well and getting close. Regards to personal space in standard dancing...I can only say "What personal space?" In ballroom, my partner and I try to think of ourselves as one. What ever I do reflect in what she end up doing. We try to match our body all the time. So no personal space at all, it's OUR space! Goal wise, how about dancing for the joy of dancing? That's our goal =)

Here is the (usual) problem, my partner doesn't think he is good enough, or should i rephrase that, we are good enough to compete/showcase yet. On the other hand, will we ever be ready enough ?

5 weeks after my partner and I danced together, we entered our first competition. It was for a bit of fun and we joked that we're going to get our ass kicked so bad and it would be really funny. Guess what, we ended up winning the competition. Not just winning, but we were the clear winner out there. So don't under estimate yourselves.

What we do in regards with competition is, we get together and look at the dances for the competition and look at the dances we know. If we both like what we are seeing, then we do the competition. We enter with no expectation to win anything, rather we enter because we can and we are going to have fun doing the competition. It's very important that you mutually agree on something rather than one person pushing the other person into something.

One way funded partnership
That's good. But sometimes people think, who ever is paying makes all the decision. But still try to reach a mutual agreement, after all regardless of who pays, it is still a PARTNERSHIP!

[Corne]

And not just because of competition - also so you don't go stir crazy doing nothing but waltz!

My view is that the longer you wait, the higher your expectations will be.

invested your expectations to the point where it becomes impossible.

Very interesting viewpoint of higher expectations the longer you wait. I will bring this up with our instructor and my dance partner.

[Corne]

You don't mention your coach. This is an area where you need a good one - ideally one that has had competition experience. If your's has not you might think of taking a lesson or two with a competing pro and get their opinion.

By the way, if your area is anything like mine finding a dance partner is harder than finding a life one.
However, there is a possibility that your partner simply is not interested in competition and is avoiding the subject. If that is the case you are either going to have to seek other goals (they can be selfish such as improving your AM skills in the search for a more driven parther) or simply to use this parther for social dancing.

Our coach is a local area judge, so obviously no longer competing, in fact hasn't competed in quite a while. Great idea of visiting with another coach for a lesson....

You hit the nail on the head, he is not interested in comp and avoiding the subject. Everytime i mention the word comp and 'us', he withdraws into his "shell". I can't get him to practice outside of lesson time either - we do practice right after lesson time for half an hour. So my goal should probably be a bit more selfish.

I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Corne]

The comp experience actually help them to mature faster.

This is great to know. Will bring this up with the involved parties.

[Corne]

"one-way funded dance partnership"???:confused:

I guess the confused smilie was more for the whole message, than for the quote. With all the good comments, the confusion about what communication bullet points i have/can use are slowly disappearing.

Just to clear it up, given that this partnership/lessons are funded by me and not equally paid for by both partners, i have to weigh the benefits vs. the cost of partnership constantly and decide if i am still happy with things. Our dance goals are not exactly holding hands right now....

[Standarddancer]

You hit the nail on the head, he is not interested in comp and avoiding the subject. Everytime i mention the word comp and 'us', he withdraws into his "shell". I can't get him to practice outside of lesson time either - we do practice right after lesson time for half an hour. So my goal should probably be a bit more selfish.



So the reason he won't get into comp is mainly because he believes he's "not good enough" or just shy? or just he's too busy in his life and his life is sort of pre-occupied with other things not related to dancing?

If you feel this partnership is worth it, you might need to sit down with him and discuss work/practice arrangement and check out his availibility to practice other than lesson time. let him know it's certainly not enough just to practice during lessons. Lessons are for receiving information, not for used for practice. If couples only use lesson time for practice, then lessons becomes "supervised practice" which are not efficient.

If he solely believe just because he's not "good enough", then he needs a lot of encouragement and motivations.

[Corne]

It's very important that you mutually agree on something rather than one person pushing the other person into something.

That's good. But sometimes people think, who ever is paying makes all the decision. But still try to reach a mutual agreement, after all regardless of who pays, it is still a PARTNERSHIP!

I very much ask his opinion on all matters and we make decisions jointly. It is just when it comes to comp decisions that he bails out. Everytime we talk about it, he uses a different excuse.

I actually feel like i need to push him a bit. He has got a lot of social dance experience, though standard dancing is relatively new to both of us.

When i said that i was a bit disappointed in the fact that we are not going to do the studio's small showcase, he agreed to do the showcase cause he didn't want me to be disappointed. Not exactly the right reason to do something. Unfortunately due to the date of showcase, we can't participate in the event.

Maybe, just maybe, he will bite into comp next year. Though, the next comp in town is a year from now.

[nucat78]

he is not interested in comp and avoiding the subject. Everytime i mention the word comp and 'us', he withdraws into his "shell". I can't get him to practice outside of lesson time either

Sounds as if you two have a basic incompatibility with dance goals. Maybe you could have a frank but "gentle" talk with him about it. Perhaps you can draw him out and find out what the issue really is.

[and123]

Whoa, sounds just like my ex-partner. Didn't want to practice, didn't want to compete. When we did compete, he made it a miserable experience for me by showing up late, being sloppy, forgetting things. I finally had enough and dropped him. If you're satisfied with a training partner, fine, but if you really want to compete and he doesn't, it'll eat away at you and create resentment.

[wooh]

Well, I have to wonder what the point of having an am partner is, if you're paying for everything, he won't practice much, and won't do the things that you want to do. Sounds like the costs of pro-am without any of the benefits.

I think you just need to have a talk about your goals. Does he just want a practice partner and you want a comp partner? Not everybody is actually interested in competing. He just may not want to compete or perform. It isn't even necessarily nerves or shyness, it could just be plain disinterest. Some people like to "just" dance. In which case, if that's not your goal (which it sounds like it isn't), then you have to decide if you can live with that.
BTW, I'd also be curious as to when he agreed to do the showcase. My husband is good about agreeing to do things when he knows it's too late to do them.:)

[nucat78]

My husband is good about agreeing to do things when he knows it's too late to do them.

Oh bloody hell! You're on to us.

[elisedance]

Well, I have to wonder what the point of having an am partner is, if you're paying for everything, he won't practice much, and won't do the things that you want to do. Sounds like the costs of pro-am without any of the benefits.



Good point. And a pro/am partner will do comps...

[Standarddancer]

but pro/am partner very expensive, you got to pay for each of his presense on the floor, gonna to cost at least few hundred of bucks even for a small comp even just a final

[elisedance]

Interestingly, I've now come accross three pros that do not charge for comps.

[JANATHOME]

I agree, one of the huge advantages of being AM is that you can make your own schedule and practice on your own time, no cost.... I would not even consider not putting in practice time, in between lessons, it seems like such a waste of money. After each lesson you have to work it through on your own, see what works, what you dont understand so you are ready for that next lesson with questions, comments, whatever.

All us married couples dont get into "hussy fits", as suggested on another thread... You just cant put us all into one basket. In the end I dont think that AM is any cheaper then pro-am. An AM will spend more dollars on lessons because it just takes longer to "get it" then dancing pro-am. What we save in entry fees we give up in lessons. It is all the same and all good.

We have scheduled practice sessions each week and do not view it any different than a scheduled lesson. One would not just say I dont feel like it and blow off a lesson, the exact same attitude has to be applied to practice sessions.

[Joe]

Come on girl, just discuss it with your coach. Your coach can talk to the dude and find out what his deal is with respect to comps.

[Standarddancer]

In the end I dont think that AM is any cheaper then pro-am. An AM will spend more dollars on lessons because it just takes longer to "get it" then dancing pro-am. What we save in entry fees we give up in lessons. It is all the same and all good.



that's very interesting point! "takes longer to get it" sounds like a long struggling process. But yes definitely saves entry fees.

[Standarddancer]

Interestingly, I've now come accross three pros that do not charge for comps.

are they new teachers or sort of established? Why they do it for free?

[elisedance]

are they new teachers or sort of established? Why they do it for free?

I think the key is that they were all independent. One of them explained that the reason was two fold - first, he makes enough out of the lessons and did not need to also charge for competition dances. Then, with a smile, he mentioned the 'best teacher award' - since dancing was free the students entered as many heats as they could physically stand and he often won. At many comps thats probably at least comparable to his fees. So its a win-win. Of course, there was no studio to support - and no chain.

Oh, and his students love him. Wonder why.... ;)

[Standarddancer]

I see, then this guy is smart, has good business sense! maybe it is important for his reputation to win "best teacher" award! definitely good for him and his students!