When the Student is as good as the Teacher

[DanceMentor]

Do you know some students who dance better than their teacher? I recently took on a new student who is phenomenal, yet she said that she loves dancing with me, and plans to take lots of lessons. She can literally follow anything I dish out (especially in International Standard). Now I know for a fact that there are some things I know that she doesn't know. Also, it is a pleasure to have such a great student and you can bet I will be working on my dancing to help keep her coming back for more.
Your feedback is appreciated.

[Genesius Redux]

Not in dance--but in general, I think this is every teacher's dream, to have students who inspire them to become better as well. You're probably a great teacher, DM--lousy teachers always thrive on thinking of themselves as better than their students!

[pygmalion]

I had a teacher once who had much more experience than I, but who, through his laziness, was definitely on the track to be not as good a ballroom dancer as I. (I mentioned him in a couple other threads.)

My take? 1. Don't feel guilty about taking her money. She knows what she wants out of dance lessons, and if she's willing to buy lessons from you, she knows your value. 2. Share with her the things you know, but she doesn't. 3. Learn from her. Not necessarily dance, but I bet she can teach you a couple things. 4. Enjoy. I bet that's one of the few lessons during your day where you get to enjoy the dancing. Have fun with it.

[Kitty]

Do you know some students who dance better than their teacher? I recently took on a new student who is phenomenal, yet she said that she loves dancing with me, and plans to take lots of lessons. She can literally follow anything I dish out (especially in International Standard). Now I know for a fact that there are some things I know that she doesn't know. Also, it is a pleasure to have such a great student and you can bet I will be working on my dancing to help keep her coming back for more.
Your feedback is appreciated.

Maybe you should send her to a better teacher. Did you share with her what you think of her level compared to yours?

Even if you know more, she may need a real good competitive teacher who'd be able to teach her at faster pace. Or she may not need that, depending on what her goals are.

Teacher doesn't necessarily have to dance better than his/her student, but teacher should be able to point out what they have to work on.

[pygmalion]

Maybe he should talk to her about what her goals are, as you suggest, Kitty. Maybe she's looking to dance socially and have fun. If so, DM may be just the perfect teacher for her, since she'll get to practice what she wants to know.

Or she may have high level competitive or growth goals, in which case, she'd need to move on.

Either way, maybe the best place to start is with an honest talk. 8)

[tasche]

She may prefer to work with someone whose at the same level as her. it certainly would take the pressure off and would probably look like a better matched couple. Perhaps the solution is to keep on working with her if she wants to but suggest getting outside coaching that would probably benefit both of you ( you'll ahve to work out the fiscal aspect of that)

[DanceMentor]

I appreciate all of your replies. Right now, I am the most advanced male teacher at our studio. I have been working hard on improving my skills on her favorite dance -> quickstep. I'm going to give it my all, and I like the idea of getting coaching. I'm already planning on bringing some coaches, so I'll be sure to bring some coaches that are good in international stardard.

Though she can follow just about anything, she definitely needs help on some of the finer points, especially achieving a better dance position.

She seems to be having a blast. Her next lesson is on Friday, so hopefully things will go well.

Also, since I made the first post, yet another advanced student wants to take lessons from me. I've been accused of underrating myself. Maybe it's time I gave myself a little credit. :D

[Kitty]

She may prefer to work with someone whose at the same level as her. it certainly would take the pressure off and would probably look like a better matched couple. Perhaps the solution is to keep on working with her if she wants to but suggest getting outside coaching that would probably benefit both of you ( you'll ahve to work out the fiscal aspect of that)

Yes, but then he is not a teacher, he is a practice partner. She should realize she is paying for a partner for practice, not a teacher. If she could find an amateur partner at her level, he'd practice with her for free.

I consider a good enough teacher for myself a person who'd be able to place in an amateur open level competition. For people who just need steps, not so much technique, a less skilled teacher is fine, but if she doesn't need help with steps, she might need a real competitive coach.

[tasche]

Its not really the same as a practice partner. A pratice partner is not really going to correct you in ways an trained teacher can.

"If she could find an amateur partner at her level, he'd practice with her for free."

But unfortunately thats a big IF. Finding a partner at her level in her area in her style not already with etc is not the easiest thing in thw world and I'm sure that if she could she would.

Working with someone at her level rather than say a world class instrutor as it will make the transition in am/am easier.

There are other things to factor in she can trust in DM to be there when he says he will, be on task, not quit on her, not dump her for something better etc is more than worth the price of the lesson.

All I'm saying is the equation is more complicated than $ and sense

DM dont underate yourself as long as people are paying for your service and enjoying then it is valuable

[MadamSamba]

DM, the other thing to consider is that perhaps she already knows how good she is and, similarly, knows how good you are and, as Kitty and Tasche say, just wants to practice with someone who is at her level, but also capable of teaching her as she goes.

Also, what does she do? Perhaps she teaches lower-level classes or some such. I know of one Latin teacher who told one of her students she wouldn't be taking him for any post gold-level medals because she had not kept her skills up and couldn't do him justice. She'd taught him from pre-bronze level and, after a few years, he was as good as her...

I regularly see her at non-ballroom dancing workshops and classes because she likes to keep her skills up to date, so one week I might be learning from her and the next, at another venue, she might be in my class! She may simply be wanting to hone her already developed skills, rather than learn as much as, say, a less experienced student.

Also, it's nice of you to even worry about such things...good to know that there are some dance teachers out there who actually care for their students...had an interesting experience last week, will post it in another thread, but it certainly got me thinking about the ethics of some dance teachers...

[Kitty]

Its not really the same as a practice partner. A pratice partner is not really going to correct you in ways an trained teacher can.



There are other things to factor in she can trust in DM to be there when he says he will, be on task, not quit on her, not dump her for something better etc is more than worth the price of the lesson.


If he is at her level, he wouldn't be able to correct her as much as a more skilled teacher could, so the lessons wouldn't be as effective.

A good amateur partner wouldn't do those things that you said, although I agree that finding a good partner is a big issue.

Anyway, I am not saying there is no value for her in lessons with DM. I am saying that if she cannot fully benefit from those lessons DM should not be embarrassed to tell her that she might want to move on to lessons with a better teacher.

Also I don't think a competitive coach is necessarily a good dancer, but a person who either was a good dancer or trained good dancers.

I know a guy (quite talented) who took a one or two private lessons a week at an Arthur Murray for three years in a row, but he is not actually that great a dancer (upper bronse level), despite the time and money spent. I think that is due to the quality of lessons he was taking. Few other guys I know that practiced with a competitive coach took less privates, but went up to silver in the same time.

I'm just saying, when a person is not a beginner, and steps aren't all that person cares about, better coach is very valuable. (for beginners I don't think it makes a lot of difference if their teacher is a World Champion).

[tasche]

We are assuming of course that there is a better teach to passher on to in "Third Rock" not everywhere in the country is like cali where you can't dance anywhere without tripping up over a world class pro.

[pygmalion]

Good point, tasche.

[KevinL]

Do you know some students who dance better than their teacher? I recently took on a new student who is phenomenal, yet she said that she loves dancing with me, and plans to take lots of lessons. She can literally follow anything I dish out (especially in International Standard).

As I read this it sounds like the woman is an excellent, well-balanced dancer, not that she has any particular dance skill. She might just be catching on very quickly.

As several others have pointed out, there might not be anyone else available in their area for her to take lessons with. Maybe DanceMentor, (despite his apparent low opinion of himself) is the best teacher in his geographic area. He wants to bring in external experts, after all!

Talk to her about her goals, and what you both might get out of working together. Given that she will soon challange your teaching skills, maybe you can cut a deal for cheaper lessons when she catches up to you and you are using her for some of your practice/learning time.

Keep us posted!

Kevin

[DancingMommy]

I appreciate all of your replies. Right now, I am the most advanced male teacher at our studio. I have been working hard on improving my skills on her favorite dance -> quickstep. I'm going to give it my all, and I like the idea of getting coaching. I'm already planning on bringing some coaches, so I'll be sure to bring some coaches that are good in international stardard.

Do get in touch with my (erstwhile) coach. He's a dream as far as Standard goes and I think you'd click well with him. He's such a great guy!!! I miss taking lessons, but I'm on sebbatical right now...

[DanceMentor]

I forgot ... who is your coach?

[Leon Pieket]

Several years ago I had myself lessions in Latin American dancing.
I found it quite interesting to dance with the coach (man and woman).
I can't say myself if I was as good as the coach but one thing is for sure, if I found that time a partner as good as the coach was then that had been great. Unfortunately there weren't much of talented woman then.
As a student I was only hoping that the coach could be my partner, but when dancing in a lesson with her and him all dreams were furfilled.
It gives you so much feedback when dancing with your coach, truely amazing. It was also a pleasure to see how the coaches were reacting when i was dancing with them, I could always notice that something was going on in the good way. The best thing of my periode in dancing that the coach felt exact where my level was, if we came at that point he/she used to put the level higher and higher. From this place, I would like to thank them again for that. If they read this, they know who they are. ;)

[Sagitta]

Welcome to df Leon Pieket!! And thanks for sharing your experiences with us.