Photographing Competitions

[johnnywalker]

I have been asked to photograph some friends in an upcoming competition. Not having done this before I would love any feedback on how to go about it. I've attended competitions before as a spectator.
I'll be using an SLR and have a variety of lenses I could use.
Am I right to assume it would be better to use high speed film (I don't have a digital camera :( ) instead of flash which is very flat and unflattering. If that is the case, would I then need to use filters to compensate for the different lighting?
Also, would a monopod be a benefit or a hindrance?
Any hints and tips would be great. I'd really like to be able to provide my friends with good pictures.

[Adwiz]

Photographing ballroom dance, especially competitions, is very difficult. I was a professional fashion and wedding photographer for several years before getting into the advertising business, but I'm still interested in photography and started shooting comps for pleasure. I was blown away by how hard it is.

One of the challenges is the low light levels. Even when push processing my film to 2000 ISO many of the images didn't have enough light, and the grain was of course noticeable. And this was in a surprisingly bright comp venue!

Because things move so fast, you need to have a high enough shutter speed, and that's where the problems begin. Let's say you set a minimum speed (without flash) of 1/125th sec. Your aperture now needs to be so large to capture enough light that you'll have a very narrow depth of field, leading to big focusing challenges.

One of the best techniques I found is to use "slow sync" flash. This lets you capture the motion with a slow shutter speed (1/30th or even less), creating a wonderful high-energy blurring of the action, but the flash will freeze the subjects as well. Gives you a kind of combo effect with sharpness and motion at the same time. Tricky to do well but the effect looks great when you get it right. You'll need to compensate a bit for a slight tint towards the reds when doing slow sync shots.

Digital cameras are much better, as the newer models are much "faster" than film can be, letting you take crisp shots without a flash. With film cameras, try to use the best light-gathering lens you can (an aperture of 3.5 or faster is vital).

When push-processing your film, make sure they process it for the finest grain possible. I've found an ISO of 1200 to be pretty good, using 400 speed slide film as the base. Higher numbers just increase grain to unacceptable levels. Also, make sure you test the push processing. Never give the film house the entire batch. What I do is shoot some test frames in the venue on a small roll just for pre-testing. When they process that, they can see where adjustments need to be made. Then process each roll separately to make sure there are no surpises.

Finally, shoot tons of stuff. It is so hard to capture the right moment, even in a lunge movement or oversway. Everything might seem perfect but there will generally be some issue, including another couple's position in the frame. The pros go through a roll every dance.

[SDsalsaguy]

Hiya JW-
Personally I shoot 400 speed film with my camera set to 1/125 (or sometimes 1/90). I do use flash, as I feel that this helps generate a crispness to the capture otherwise lacking in film photography. My advice on this front is use as powerful a flash as you can/have with as poweful a power source as possible (I shoot with a Cannon so use a Cannon 540 EZ flash powered by a Quantum Turbo and Quantum 1 battery in tandem). I find that this gives me the fastest recycling of my flash while giving me the sharpness I want. Adwiz's suggestions will, of course, help you avoid the problem of lag in recycling, but shows more grain as he has also noted. For a sample of some of the images I've captured my way, you can see my submissions to the DF photo album (http://www.dance-forums.com/album/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=42).

HTH and, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[Vince A]

Adwiz and SD,
Since we're discussing help and hints, and digital cameras were mentioned . . . I have a question for you along the same lines . . .

I am very familiar with 35mm cameras/equipment, and have quite a lot of it laying around. But since I purchased a digital camera, I have not used the 35mm stuff in well over a year-and-a-half.

The digital camera gives great pictures! Easy to operate, easy to print, easy to download to the 'Net/E-mail, etc.

My question is on 'the flash' and 'auto focus.' I mostly take action photos - dancing, soccer, etc. - with the camera. I know most of my wife's routines, and know when a good pose is coming up. I have to find them in the viewfinder, push the button down part way, continue moving with them, and as they pose, I push the rest of the way down. A second to two seconds later . . . it flashes and takes the picutre - way, way after the darn pose!

What am I doing wrong? What setting do I need to get it off of? Suggestions - other than manual focus???

Camera - Olympus 4000

Thanks in advance . . .

[johnnywalker]

Thanks for the reply guys. I guess it's all trial and error. I think i'll try a combination of flash and non flash. I have a Metz 45CT4 with Quantam Turbo battery. I haven't yet given thought as to which film i'll be using.
It certainly sounds as though there's more to consider than I would have thought. Thanks for the info on light Adwiz. I would have thought there would be enough light given how bright competitions seem to be. I guess dancers do move at a faster pace than we realise.
SDSalsaguy - I too use Canon EOSs. I've often looked at the 540EZ. Would you recommend it?

[johnnywalker]

Finally got a chance to see your photos SD and I must say they're really good. I won't be posting any just yet until I can achieve similar results.
How difficult would positioning be? Do you stay in the one spot? Are the corners the best locations or somewhere along the side?

[SDsalsaguy]

Vince-
I don't shoot digital yet (the camera body I'd need to equal my current film based one would run me $1,500), so can't really help you out too much. Unless you can adjust the ASA speed or can add a flah though, it doesn't sound like you can do too much more. Porfirio might be able to give you some advice as he shoots a non-SLR digital camera at ballroom comps and gets some good shots. Maybe try PMing him about this thread?

JW-
I'm glad you liked some of my shots. :D :oops: :oops: :oops:

Regarding the 540EZ, I really like it! I typically mount it off camera on a flash bracket to get a little more shape and depth, but other than that I just let it do its own thing and it's really done a great job for me. If you have TTL metering with your Metz though, you may already have what you need... especially if you already have the Quantum Turbo. Even with the battery pack, remember that the action will happen faster than your flash will recharge.

As far as positioning, I've found corners to offer the most versatil position... unless you can get dead center on a long side (only the hired photographer has really been able to get away with standing center/long side at the comps I've been to though). What lense will you be using by the way? My default lense has been a 28-200 Cannon zoom (from around 150-200 it sometimes gets a bit slow -- depends on floor position and lightoing -- and with bigger glass I could probably do more, but a student budget doesn't really lend itself to better camera equipment :( ).

[johnnywalker]

SD - Definitely good shots you have there. I would think isolating the subjects as you have done would not always be that easy. Especially with everyone vying for the same floor space.
In the telephoto range I would be using a 100-300mm. I also have a 135mm prime I could use and wasn't certain if a wide angle would be of any use.
I work full time but still find it's expensive buying equipment. I actually started buying stuff from the States recently. I have bought a couple of items from KEH in Atlanta. Their prices were great, condition of equipment excellent (even better than what they rate) and service was superb. The entire transaction for each item took less than week (I placed the order on a Wednesday and received the goods by the following Monday).

[SDsalsaguy]

Hmmm, 100-300 might give you some trouble. What style are your friends dancing (i.e. Latin or Ballroom)?

[Adwiz]

I push the rest of the way down. A second to two seconds later . . . it flashes and takes the picutre - way, way after the darn pose!

What am I doing wrong? What setting do I need to get it off of? Suggestions - other than manual focus???

There can be several reasons. I've run into this with both digital and film cameras, and it is maddening!

One issue is that sometimes the auto focus can't quite fix on a specific point. This happens a lot with my wife's Nikon Pronea, especially with dark costumes. This can happen when there are multiple items in the focus sampling area, and is most common if the subject is standing at an angle, because the focus can't pick between the closer and farther part of the body.

Another issue is that some cameras take a long time to calculate all the aspects of lighting, etc. Even though you've pushed the shutter button part way, thinking you've "locked" the focus and exposure, this may not be happening as you expect.

My guess is that it's the focus issue, as that is very common. The only workaround is to focus manually. My ancient Nikon F2S (no autofocus) never has problems like that, while all three of our autofocus cameras sometimes have that shutter lag.

[johnnywalker]

Hmmm, 100-300 might give you some trouble. What style are your friends dancing (i.e. Latin or Ballroom)?

They'll be competing in both to my knowledge. My wife has a 75-200 which I could probably borrow.
Would you think the 300mm range is too long? Maybe I can just focus on their wonderful expressions :D

Adwiz - If I wasn't a Canon person I would love to own either the F2 or FM2. Such classic cameras. Hmmm...maybe a Leica would be nice; or possibly even a Hasselblad.

[SDsalsaguy]

Hmmm, 100-300 might give you some trouble. What style are your friends dancing (i.e. Latin or Ballroom)?
They'll be competing in both to my knowledge. My wife has a 75-200 which I could probably borrow.
Would you think the 300mm range is too long? Maybe I can just focus on their wonderful expressions :D
being able to go out to 300 is fine... not being able to back out any further than 100 can really get you "jammed up" though, depending where on the floor they set up. If they're right in front of you in, say, cha cha or rumba, you wouldn't be able to get anything else. FYI, I get 90% of my shots with a 28-200 (3.5-5.6) lense.

[johnnywalker]

...being able to go out to 300 is fine... not being able to back out any further than 100 can really get you "jammed up" though, depending where on the floor they set up. If they're right in front of you in, say, cha cha or rumba, you wouldn't be able to get anything else. FYI, I get 90% of my shots with a 28-200 (3.5-5.6) lense.

Oh that's cool. I have a 28-90mm I could use. Out of interest, what film do you use?

[Adwiz]

Adwiz - If I wasn't a Canon person I would love to own either the F2 or FM2. Such classic cameras.

I started with Canon and will be going back to that brand when I move to a digital SLR. I'm saving up for a D10 but dance expenses keep getting in the way. I never seem to make any headway towards my new camera. :( :D

[SDsalsaguy]

Out of interest, what film do you use?
My film of choice is Kodak Supra (ISO 400). But this also depends where I'm getting my developing done for any set of prints. When I shoot in bulk (say 10+ rolls at a time), I go somewhere else that uses Fuji chemistry and paper, so I'll tend to switch to Fuji Superia (ISO 400). (I've found that I just tend to prefer my prints when the film, chemistry, and paper all match -- probably because of common crystal structures, etc.)

HTH

[Flat Shoes]

As mentioned, shooting dancing is difficult. It is action photo, the lighting is bad, it is difficult to find a decent place to shoot from.

If you're not digital, but using film, I would use a flash. Then you don't have to worry about color-filters, and it's easier to freeze the action. Still you should use a fast film, like 400 or 800. A bit dependent on the power of your flash. I think 400 would be enough.

What ocjective to use is also difficult to choose. From my experience shooting swing dancers, I switch back and forth a lot as the couple is coming closer or is further away. This also depends on how close to the floor you are.

The best would be to have two cameras (and two photographers), one with a wide angle in the range 28-50mm for when the couples are close, and more of a zoom 50-300 for closeups of faces or when the couple is further away.

But keep in mind, your flash has a limited range. If shooting above flash range, you will get grainy and uninteresting pictures. The range can be extended with faster films, but I think your priority should be close range photos.

A zoom-lense is always good, but they are more costly and usually has a lower maximum aperture. As mentioned before, you should have fast lenses. I recommend 2.8 or faster.

One tactic would be if you knew where on the floor the couples would be when they we're posing, and aim to shoot them at this point. Or maybe just shoot them when they're passing by this point, if they're moving around. That would give fewer pictures, but maybe a higher chance of getting a few shots right.

Using the technicue of focusing on one part of the floor, it is possible to use a tripod. However in my experience, a tripod slows me down too much.

But you can set up an alternative tactic. By standing further away, with a fast film, a decent telezoom (f.x 70-200 F2.8), a filter for color correction (or a special film made for indoor lighting conditions) you can get som good picture of poses. It is difficult shooting action this way, since you need to use longer exposure time to compensate for bad lighting an no flash, and that will cause a lot of motion blur as the couples move about.

You can also try shooting at a closer range without flash, but with handheld panning. But that is really difficult. Never tried it myself.

My best advice is: use a fast 50mm (Canon F1.8 or Canon F1.4), or wider. Get quite close to the floor. Use a flash and an ISO 400 film. Use handheld. And spend film like a true madman. :!:

[Vince A]

Thanks SD and Adwiz,

I plan on "thinking 35mm" and setting up the digital just how I would set up my 35mm . . . but will slow the flash and go to manual focus.

Thanks for getting me to think about this . . .

[SDsalsaguy]

My 28-200 provides an excellent set of framing options but, as Flat Shoes highlights, a faster lense would be ideal.

[johnnywalker]

Thanks Flat Shoes

I had thought about using the 50mm 1.8 and also (as SD stated) using a 28mm 2.8 that I have for the event. I fortunately have two bodies but only the one flash so I may alternate between flash and non-flash or otherwise (having two brackets) frantically swap the flash unit between cameras.
Like Adwiz, i'd love to buy one of the Canon digitals but it's an expense I cannot meet at the moment (upcoming dentist appointment...I can see them driving away in a new Porsche by the time they've finished with me :( ). Also, as has been said many times before, it's not the equipment but the person behind the camera. Still, it looks like a very nice toy.
The 28-200 option obviously works for you SD as I wouldn't fault your pictures. Sometimes i'd like a lens that encompasses such a range because sometimes I couldn't be bothered carrying so much gear. Personally, I doubt either I or my friends (who are competing) will be enlarging the photos to anything larger than 8x10 or 11x14 so i'll be happy to get reasonably sharp photos. Perhaps I should start practising in the studio.

[SDsalsaguy]

Perhaps I should start practising in the studio.
Actually, if you have a chance to preview the routines, i.e. see where the hits and lines are, that can really help.

[Vince A]

Just knowing the footwork and counts should tell you when they "might" do something!!!!

Jonathan,
By the way, on the digital . . the manual focus is a preset thing that the operator has to set each time for distance. You have to go into menu to change that distance each time, or it is locked in to the last setting that I preset in - if that makes sense.

So I would have to take "all" pictures at that same distance ro go back to auto AF . . . time to get out the ol' 35mm, me thinks . . .