Dips?

[ShyDancer]

No not the eating variety :wink: :wink:

I love it when guys ask wether or not I mind dips (I don't). I can prepare for it (even though I have little idea of how it should be done, I handle myself ok and havent had any complaints!).
What gets me annoyed is 2 things

1. Guys that dip you too fast and without warning,
&
2. Guys who dip you really low and over their knee *ouch*


An old teacher told me once of a way to place your feet or knees to prevent being dipped without causing either of you any injury, does anyone know how to do this?.


Also does anyone have any other dipping tips for me? I have never been "officially" taught to dip, I have just picked it up dancing socially by guys who talk me thru it while they do it :lol: :lol:



(* had to edit that to say I dont mind dips!)

[Sagitta]

It depends on the person....I sometimes ask, and sometimes just do a small itsy witsy dip to see the follows reaction. A dip where I can easily take 100% of the weight. If they like it a bigger dip. If I've seen teh person being dipped before and really enjoying it, then there is no need to ask.

I believe that when a person is dipped they should support themselves as much as they can. If they didn't at 117 pounds - which I checked today out of idle curiosity as someone said I looked pulled down - I would not be able to dip many people. Most people are taller and heavier then me. :(

[Sagitta]

And try a serach on dips...a lot of interesting and useful topics come up like this one:

To dip or not to dip? (http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1662&highlight=dips)

[tj]

Also does anyone have any other dipping tips for me? I have never been "officially" taught to dip, I have just picked it up dancing socially by guys who talk me thru it while they do it :lol: :lol:

Lol! I have a friend who has proclaimed herself a "Dip Slut" (her term, not mine), which led into all sorts of double entendres like practicing safe dipping, etc.

Anyway, be careful of what you do with your head/neck. My aforementioned friend ended up hurting herself one night during a dance.

Proper technique is pretty important on dips, cuz the last thing we all want/need is for anyone to get injured.

Oh, and really deep dips can be a lot of fun, provided the two of you use proper technique.

Call it a lack of imagination, but more often than not, I'll usually take the easy way out and dip a gal during the dramatic pauses in a song. I've seen much more creative ways to play with the music than this, but hey, it's better to be doing something in time to it, right?

[TangoCharlie]

Hi there,

The main things with any dips/drop etc is protect your neck and back. With the neck, at the beginning of the dip, tuck your chin in slightly, then let your head roll naturally backwards as you go backwards. If you try to hold your head up, the neck muscles really don't like it! When coming up, just roll your head naturally forward as you straighten. Also make sure you're on your toes before doing in to the dip - that way you don't twist your back because your feet can't turn on the floor (looks better too). I usually straighten my outside leg because it looks better, and bring it in again to help the guy bring me up. It also helps the guy if you're as close to him as possible when you start the dip because then your weight is closer to him.

Hope this helps a bit! :)

[TangoCharlie]

Just noticed that you're in Australia ShyDancer. In that case, the best way to learn dips is to go to a few Ceroc lessons. :)

Depending on where you are...
cerocaustralia.com.au/
or there's heaps of other franchises around.

[Sagitta]

I haven't seen much of you around TangoCharlie, so just in case...welcome to df!! Thanks for the advice on dips. Why do you suggest ceroc over the other dances to learn dips? If I'm in the US what would be your choice of dance to learn dips?

[KevinL]

I often dip my partners, and I almost always ask before I do the first one. Most women seem to like doing dips, but I'm not going to go deep until I know they like them.

What bothers me most is those partners who feel how "strong" I am and then (it seems) purposefully throw their weight back. It sometimes seems as if they are trying to slam thier heads into the gound on purpose! OK, so that has never happened, but it always shocks me when women throw themselves backward and expect me to catch them!

Dips are great, but leaders should have "permission" to do them, and followers should support as much of their weight as possible.

Kevin

[cocodrilo]

I agree with Sagitta in that the person being dipped should support themelves as much as they can. I'm taller than most guys I dance with and I can't feel assured they'll be able to fully control any portion of my weight on their (sometimes skinny) arm, so I give them only my body to rest on their arm and am able to support myself balancing my weight half on the lower part of my body and the other half which is being suspended from the opposite end of the arch(part being dipped). For fancy dips I would prefer someone who is familiar with these moves before I attempt anything with them. I don't fancy the neck dips or even watching guys let the girl fall on the back of their heel and kicking it back up- as there is a high risk for injury(unless both dancers are familiar with these moves).

[salsachinita]

Just realised I'm in the Ballroom forum :oops: ........

Now, I've mention in several old threads that I love dips (while hate multiple spins)!

I can alos hold my weight during dips, most of the times.

My question is, some side-way dips are next to impossible for me to hold my own weight, as my both feet are almost paralelle to the ground........

I spoke to my lead just the other day, and he said it was perfectly ok to let him carry more weight (mine)......but I still feel like there had to be more I could do :oops: .

Comments....? Experiences...? Anyone?

[virginiadancegirl]

Dips are very much reliant on BOTH dancers comfort and ability. I would be very unlikely to do a dip on a social floor with someone I have not at least tried on with off the floor! I used to do a lot of dips with my ex-partner...and even with the trust and experience we had....we still had some near misses.

As far as tips - always trust the person dipping you! Also, a helpful piece of information I learned recently is when you're getting ready for the dip, you need to raise yourself to lower yourself...it helps keep your center where it needs to be. I saw a great explanation of this in a Dips and Drops video by the Savoys....

Hope this helps....a little ! :wink:

[D-spot]

Ladies, dress appropriately.
I have had two ladies ask me after the fact NOT to dip them as they were knickerless. Oops.
Okay, now I always ask.

Of course, it depends on what your aim is in determining wht appropriate dress is.
D-spot
(arms like an orang-utans, and a face like its bum)
(loves dips, oversways, contra-checks etc).
(apparently, also loves post-scripts)

[TangoCharlie]

Thanks for the welcome Sagitta. I've been lurking mostly! :)

I suggested Ceroc because we do heaps of dips and drops (especially in Australia and NZ) when dancing so they teach them really well and safely. Since Ceroc isn't in the US that I know of, I don't really know an alternative...

[pygmalion]

Ladies, dress appropriately.
I have had two ladies ask me after the fact NOT to dip them as they were knickerless. Oops.
Okay, now I always ask.



Not trying to be difficult here, but what the heck were they doing out dancing while knickerless? :shock: Boggles the mind, that does. It reminds me of an old Tracey Ullman skit where she's doing something outrageous like cheerleading, and every time the male cheerleader tries to coax her into a new move, she says, through gritted teeth, "I have no panties on!" Hilarious, in a sketch comedy skit. In real life, um, those ladies need to get a clue. Almost any spin will put all your "wares" on display. You don't have to wait to be dipped. :?

[tsb]

one thing i haven't seen mentioned yet is to try to keep both feet touching the floor - as soon as one foot leaves the floor your center of gravity changes and you partner may not be able to accomodate that shift in weight. another thing you may want to consider is developing a styling move with your arm that places your hand close to the floor so as to be able to catch yourself should it occur that your partner loses you.

i don't see too many dips executed in a ballroom setting though (except maybe in tango) so i'd be curious to find out in what context these dips are occurring.

[DancePoet]

Pygmalion's view was the same as mine as soon as I read D-Spot's post.

Dips may not happen often, but the spins do! Get a clue!

[ShyDancer]

one thing i haven't seen mentioned yet is to try to keep both feet touching the floor - as soon as one foot leaves the floor your center of gravity changes and you partner may not be able to accomodate that shift in weight. another thing you may want to consider is developing a styling move with your arm that places your hand close to the floor so as to be able to catch yourself should it occur that your partner loses you.

i don't see too many dips executed in a ballroom setting though (except maybe in tango) so i'd be curious to find out in what context these dips are occurring.

Some guys tell me to kick up a foot, if they dont I do keep both on the floor.

I havent had a single problem with weight bearing though,the first time I was dipped I was asked if I had been taught it before, When I said no he was suprised, and said I had a natural ability to carry my weight well.
Still not 100% sure I know exactly what he meant, and I dont know how I do it, I just relax really and it kinda goes from there :oops: :oops:

I get dipped in a few dances, Most commonly in barndance at my main studio.
At another studio, I can be dipped in anything, barndance being #1 there too, with Rumba, Jive, Cha Cha , Merengue all thrown into the mix!

[jon]

As far as tips - always trust the person dipping you!

I'd rephrase that as "always make sure you can trust a person before dipping with them". It applies in both directions, though the dipee is usually more vulnerable. Frex I have a somewhat weak left knee, so I can lead dips and provide support, but it's important that my partner not expect me to take her full weight, or try going very deep into the dip.

[tsb]

I get dipped in a few dances, Most commonly in barndance at my main studio.


i'm from the states and have no idea what "barndance" is. please do enlighten me!

[Sagitta]

I get dipped in a few dances, Most commonly in barndance at my main studio.


i'm from the states and have no idea what "barndance" is. please do enlighten me!

Me too, please!!

[jon]

i'm from the states and have no idea what "barndance" is. please do enlighten me!

Barn dances have been held in the US for centuries and still are... they are part of the background from which are drawn modern western square dancing, contra dancing, and other sorts of folk dancing. Don't know about funny furrin versions though.

[pygmalion]

furrin? I actually had to stop a minute and translate your accent. :lol: :lol:

[delamusica]

As to ballroom dances that use dips - I've seen and/or done them in chacha, rumba, tango, foxtrot (american), bolero, mambo, paso doble, and american waltz . . . so it's pretty practical even for us ballroom folk to know good dippin' technique. :)

[ShyDancer]

Its a progressive dance here in Aus, its done at every studio Ive ever been to, very simple and a lot of fun!
Its not the C&W barndance...Im not sure if there are any similarities between them.

Its done in open extended hold (called something different in the US but Im not sure what)
Ladies on the outside LOD and Men on the inside of the LOD

Lady
RF Forward
LF Forward
RF Forward
LF Kick! (lots of enegry in the kick makes it 2x fun!)

LF Back
RF Back
LF Side (face partner)
RF Close

LF Back (moving away from your partner)
RF Back
LF Back
RF Tap (no weight change)

Use these forward steps to move to new partner, and these steps are used to turn so that the lady will end up on the inside of LOD, (just add a small 1/4 swivel on each forward step)
RF Forward
LF Forward (swivel)
RF Forward (swivel)
LF Tap (should be inside LOD now)

LF Back (everyone will be moving in to the center)
RF Back
LF Back
RF Tap OR Dip here :D

Using same thing as above to turn in, use it now to turn back out
RF Forward
LF Forward (swivel)
RF Forward (swivel)
LF Close.

Now 4 chasse/waltz turns (123,223,323,423)and then straight into it all over again.!

For the guys, just read what is written above and change the Rights for Lefts (and you would dip the girl rather than be dipped :wink: :lol: :lol: )

[ShyDancer]

I forgot to mention, this is danced to a March rhythm :wink:

[tsb]

As to ballroom dances that use dips - I've seen and/or done them in chacha, rumba, tango, foxtrot (american), bolero, mambo, paso doble, and american waltz . . . so it's pretty practical even for us ballroom folk to know good dippin' technique. :)

the "over the knee" dips description is giving me an imagery i associate with aerials & drops i tend to do only salsa or swing. i do things like cortes all the time in ballroom.

[SDsalsaguy]

OK, in random order, dip tips...

Don't do dips with partners you can't trust! (And this one applies on both directions!!!)

Don't do dips when the space doesn't permit it!

If you're being dipped:

:arrow: Don't anticipate! This is even more crucial in dips than in any other following! What if the dipper needs to make a last minute change or adjustment, say to keep your head away from a wild elbow that the oblivious couple next to you just flung in your direction? If you anticipate where you're being dipped and go there on your own, it's really *not* your partners fault that you caught an elbow to the noggin!

:arrow: Never, ever, EVER, throw yourself into a dip! :x :evil: :x This is dangerous to you and to your partner! I've had my back severely hurt this way as my instinct was to catch my partner rather than let her fling herself to the floor (that'll teach me! :( ).

:arrow: If you're uncomfortable doing a dip, back out of doing it...but don't grab/clutch your partner! All this really does is pull him off balance as well... and probably put you both on the floor. (Again, I've had someone grab on to me -- in a workshop they had no business being in -- and totally wreck my back. Seriously, I couldn't walk without pain for 2 months! :x :evil: :( )

:arrow: Lift your hips! For more advanced dips you may not be able to support your own weight, but still lift your hips towards the sky -- this makes all the difference in the world! :D Seriously, don't think about taking your head back &/or down, but think about taking your hips UP!

:arrow: Closely related to lifting the hips, if the dip allows it, come up onto the balls (and even toes) of your feet, and bend your knees! (Obviously this doesn't apply to some variations, i.e. death drops, but the hip lifting still does!)

If you're doing the dipping:

:arrow: Make sure that your partner, the floor conditions, and your own abilities all allow for whatever dip you have in mind.

:arrow: Use leverage, not muscle! No matter what dips I'm doing, simple sit twists, surprise dips, neck drops, window shade death drops, over the knee (I'll return to this one in a moment given the comments already made in protest), etc., my own center weight, and my partner's, needs to be centered and lowered along that axis! If I "fling" her out to a side, I compromise my entire grounding and balance to catch/support her, and that's just asking for trouble!

:arrow: Use your knees! That's what they're there for after all, natures shock absorbers!

:arrow: Take as much time as you and your partner both need to recover from a dip! I get that you may want to come back in right "on beat," but guess what? If you wait, that same beat will come right back! (And within only eight beets too! :wink:) Seriously, trying to transition out of a dip when either of you is off balance is silly. It is likely to end up being of tempo &/or balance, and it'll look like $h!t. Why not just milk the recovery, look extra smooth & suave, and just come back in on the next measure :?:

:arrow: Okay, because I said I'd come back to this... across the knee dips. The problem isn't honestly the knee, it's how you get there and where the knee ends up. Knees are great things... both as shock absorbers and as structural support. They're also very dangerous things, as any martial artist well knows! Guys, being dropped across your knee is NOT a dip! It hurts! Being gently lowered, so that her weight is supported by your knee is something else entirely! Your arms do the lowering, it is controlled, supported, and gentle... and there is NO sudden contact. (I hope all you DF ladies would agree that this is an acceptable "across the knee" dip... if not though, please let me know... and please let me know why!!! So far everyone I have dipped in this way has liked it a lot, but I'm always trying to learn and grow!)

:arrow: And just because it can never be repeated too many times, protect your partner :!: :!: :!:



That's all for now as my brain is sizzled but good... if I think of anything else I'll try and remember to post. :?

[dancin_feet]

And I think a bit of an obvious one, if you are a lady and being dipped in a skirt, under NO circumstances lift one foot to your knee in a pose! Unless you are being dipped away from a wall, but even then ...... :oops:

Try to keep both legs down and together to avoid embarrassment of both yourself and others around you!! :D

[ShyDancer]

Great Tips SD!!

I just want to say though, that mine is from a beginners view...I havent been doing dips for very long at all.

I dont dislike the over the knee dips , more the way they are carried out by some leads. There is one lead who dips me beautifully over his knee. times it perfectly, smoothly and his knee somehow ends up comfortably in the small of my back . Some guys drop you hard onto the knee and thats an awful experience! Thank goodness for this guy otherwise I wouldnt know how nice it can be!




Never, ever, EVER, throw yourself into a dip!.

People do this? :shock: :shock: I wouldnt be brave enough to go throwing myself into any move on the dancefloor let alone in one that I could end up head first on the floor!

[ShyDancer]

And I think a bit of an obvious one, if you are a lady and being dipped in a skirt, under NO circumstances lift one foot to your knee in a pose! Unless you are being dipped away from a wall, but even then ...... :oops:

Try to keep both legs down and together to avoid embarrassment of both yourself and others around you!! :D


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I saw this happen! I posted it in funny stories on the dancefloor over in general dance discussion (I think!)

[Sagitta]

Never, ever, EVER, throw yourself into a dip!.

People do this? :shock: :shock: I wouldnt be brave enough to go throwing myself into any move on the dancefloor let alone in one that I could end up head first on the floor!

Oh they do. I'm terrified to do dips after my bad experiences. I'm extremely cautious. Some have no idea what a dip is and want to be taken down and up, just like a fair ride. :? They think they are helping by getting themselves down faster. Not!!

[tsb]

Never, ever, EVER, throw yourself into a dip!.

People do this? :shock: :shock: I wouldnt be brave enough to go throwing myself into any move on the dancefloor let alone in one that I could end up head first on the floor!

Oh they do. I'm terrified to do dips after my bad experiences. I'm extremely cautious. Some have no idea what a dip is and want to be taken down and up, just like a fair ride. :? They think they are helping by getting themselves down faster. Not!!

ugh! i had a partner i was dancing with for the first assume i was leading a dip and it was all i could do to lower her to the ground gently without hurting myself. i later discovered she was a lousy follower - back-led a LOT of stuff.

[Sabor]

Never, ever, EVER, throw yourself into a dip!.

People do this? :shock: :shock: I wouldnt be brave enough to go throwing myself into any move on the dancefloor let alone in one that I could end up head first on the floor!

Oh they do. I'm terrified to do dips after my bad experiences. I'm extremely cautious. Some have no idea what a dip is and want to be taken down and up, just like a fair ride. :? They think they are helping by getting themselves down faster. Not!!

ugh! i had a partner i was dancing with for the first assume i was leading a dip and it was all i could do to lower her to the ground gently without hurting myself. i later discovered she was a lousy follower - back-led a LOT of stuff.

yeah!.. that stuff is mucho dangerous! like they dont realize they could cause severe injury this way! :evil: and u know whats worse.. some of them keep doing it even after u explain to them why they shouldn't :shock: .. they think that u are the one who dont understand or doing it wrong!! can u believe it :!: :?: :!: .. more so they are very aggressive in their dance and keep throwing their weight around the whole dance like its some kind of wrestling championship cup match.. there are a few of them around here and i never dance with them again even when they ask me.. i hate to be rude.. but i have no other choice.. i dont like being tortured :?

[hopelessly_addicted]

Thanks for the welcome Sagitta. I've been lurking mostly! :)

I suggested Ceroc because we do heaps of dips and drops (especially in Australia and NZ) when dancing so they teach them really well and safely. Since Ceroc isn't in the US that I know of, I don't really know an alternative...

Hey I'm glad that you mentioned this! This guy that I love to be dipped by, he's got some Ceroc background. Sometimes when dancing socially (sorry, the dance is salsa...), he'd put his hand around my head to protect from people around.. I always wondered how he does these dips and now I know :D Perhaps I should take up Ceroc since I wanna improve in doing dips...

[luh]

I love dips! (the only reason i dance:D *not completely serious, but almost) I guess i was kind of known in our club to never let a girl leave before i dipped her. And never had a problem with it, - neither the girl, nor me. This http://homepages.gac.edu/~vhailper/pics/7c79.jpg is my favorite dip. I just love this one. (just to add - please don't try this at home out of this pic!)(btw, i only dipped girls from our club, no clue why)
But since I'm in europe, i haven't dipped _anyone_. Kind of sad. No clue why germans don't do them.(and the few other europeans i danced with, - i guess after one dance and no dipping for few months you don't just start dipping). I should ask. I miss it. Looks kind of emtpy when you just stop dancing in the end.
If anyone is interested I'm going to post it here.
luh
Just found one more dippic on my webpage. http://homepages.gac.edu/~vhailper/pics/68d1.jpg though i don't put her down that far.(the pic-people are friends of mine)

(technical edit by Larinda)

[Dave]

This http://homepages.gac.edu/~vhailper/pics/7c79.jpg is my favorite dip.
I have to say, I have never heard a move like that described as a dip! I would consider any move where the woman has no contact with the ground an aerial.

Where I dance (England), most women are happy to do dips (although asking if they are happy with dips/drops first is recommended). In contrast, doing aerials with anyone other than a regular practice partner will make you extremely unpopular.

If you want to do aerials while you're in Europe, why not try to find a rock'n'roll club? Germany has some of the top acrobatic R'n'R dancers in the world.

[leftfeetnyc]

That is not a dip at all.

In a dip one foot should remain on the ground and it's easy to execute with any follow (although beginners should becareful not to dip their head back as well as they can get whip lash)

Anything where the feet come off the ground requires paractice and training due to saftey measures and SHOULD NOT BE DONE ON A SOCIAL FLOOR!

Not only is it dangerous to an inexperienced follow or leader, but it is also dangerous to people around the couple.

[tsb]

Thanks for the welcome Sagitta. I've been lurking mostly! :)

I suggested Ceroc because we do heaps of dips and drops (especially in Australia and NZ) when dancing so they teach them really well and safely. Since Ceroc isn't in the US that I know of, I don't really know an alternative...

Hey I'm glad that you mentioned this! This guy that I love to be dipped by, he's got some Ceroc background. Sometimes when dancing socially (sorry, the dance is salsa...), he'd put his hand around my head to protect from people around.. I always wondered how he does these dips and now I know :D Perhaps I should take up Ceroc since I wanna improve in doing dips...

i've heard it both ways - cradle the follower's head, DON'T cradle her head. i avoid the controversy in social dancing by not taking a partner beyond a position where she still has some control over her weight distribution (unless she takes a foot off the floor of her own volition - in which case her whole center of mass tends to shift to being unsupported).

in performance routines, we've practiced & we're a known quantity to each other & in those cases i leave it to the preference to my partner.

[tsb]

luh, i don't think you really get the fact that a behavior you apparently take great pride in is something that would get you ostracized VERY quickly in our social dance circles. [Edited by DF staff, as per Guideline #4]

[SDsalsaguy]

Lets keep in mind that luh does more swing/lindy than anything else. maybe thhis is about a difference in the social genres?

[alemana]

someone of your ethnic background bla bla bla? you must be joking me.

[kansas49er]

someone of your ethnic background bla bla bla? you must be joking me.

beat me to it.

[luh]

wow such a load of answers. I'm not used to that.
Well i guess i should comment them.

@dave
That was considered a dip in our club. I don't know if that conflicts with aerials. I guess you should ask dnice to figure out something like that. He seems to know more about definitions and stuff than me.
It was not the only one, it was just the one i had on my hand (in the internet), and i really like it. We used it as end dip. Maybe I'm wrong, could be.

@leftfeetnyc
3 things to your post:
1. we practiced it,
2. we just did it when there was enough space around us (and yes she was okay with it), and yes i say _we_ because it was us who did it. People who didn't like to get dipped, - i never dipped. And no, i'd not dip if there wouldn't be enough space.
3. Our club had always plenty of space!

See, i always knew who did and who didn't know which move in the club. This way i only did those things which were doable and accepted (i really want to point this out, I'm not the bastard who does things like this with people who have no clue about it on a not-enough-space social dancefloor) by the lady. If there is something i keep an eye on, than it is to make the dance as fun for the follower as possible, which includes! that i don't do moves she can't do or she doesn't want to do.

@tsb
look at the comments above, i think that has the responds to you too.

[luh]

i think someone of your ethnic background should appreciate the truth in that just because everyone around you goes along with something, it doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

i don't really understand what you want to say with this. But if you are thinking of german history (if that is what you mean with ethnic background) than - i don't know what than, but that would pretty much freak me out. If you consider me someone from the late 30s early 40s, than i don't want to know about your other views on people from other countries.

if it isn't - and i hope so!, don't mind this post - if it is - please reconsider you view at the world!
luh

[leftfeetnyc]

Wow, now that things are getting snippy, lets cool down.

Luh, I was refering to the ariel it's self, not the picture. In general people should not do that in a social setting. I would assume you knew the lady in the photo with you and had practiced it prior to the photo and as the photo looked staged that you had plenty of space.

What I meant was that most club and social settings get crowded and many people, despite what is constantly said in favor of floorcraft, do not watch where they are going or who is around them. It can be dangerous. There are leaders out there who do not know their partners and toss them in the air, there are followers who backlead themselves into ariels. Additionally, this thread was started in Ballroom where your background is in ECS and now Lindy. Swing is much more apt to see ariels in a social setting than ballroom

[SDsalsaguy]

4. Please do not engage in name calling, attacks on a person's character, or profanity (no matter how subtle -- we take such activities seriously). Please report abusive behavior to a moderator. Please don't attempt to debate such posts. Penalties for abusive behavior may result in deletion of your username and posts, or banning your IP address.

[mamboqueen]

Thanks, Jonathan.


Luh - I wish my body was still able to do those kind of moves, but I wouldn't qualify them as "dips" either. Really looks more like acrobatics. But 10 points for you to be able to do them. I agree that it wouldn't really work well in a social situation, at least not anywhere I go. An exhibition, perhaps.

[luh]

Wow, now that things are getting snippy, lets cool down.

Luh, I was refering to the ariel it's self, not the picture. In general people should not do that in a social setting. I would assume you knew the lady in the photo with you and had practiced it prior to the photo and as the photo looked staged that you had plenty of space.


completely right. It was staged, it was with a friend of mine, in the last night i was in the us. we were out dancing.


What I meant was that most club and social settings get crowded and many people, despite what is constantly said in favor of floorcraft, do not watch where they are going or who is around them. It can be dangerous. There are leaders out there who do not know their partners and toss them in the air, there are followers who backlead themselves into ariels. Additionally, this thread was started in Ballroom where your background is in ECS and now Lindy. Swing is much more apt to see ariels in a social setting than ballroom

well than. I think we're on the same track. I just can repeat myself. I'd never do something like that, on a social || (it is meant as a logic or) crowded dancefloor + with someone i don't know.
@SDsalsaguy - thx, before mamboqueen answered i sent a message to larinda - as she seems to be one of the admins.
hope she or mamboqueen does something anyway!! I really feel attacked pretty badly.
luh

[cocodrilo]

Luh-
That is a COOL photo and you both looked like you were enjoying yourselves. I think a lot of members here have had bad experiences with people throwing them(the leads) into dips resulting in back trauma, as well as women who have been dropped by careless leads. You look like you were obviously being careful AND having fun!

On another, more painful note, a friend of mine broke a leg practicing salsa aerials last week! She will be off the dance floor for several months! I personally don't think salsa & aerials mix at all! :?

[mamboqueen]

I'm sorry about your friend, Cocodrillo. Time for a party in hizzoner? Honestly, I have always associated aerials with swing. I never think of salsa clubs as being roomy enough to have bodies flying.

[cocodrilo]

I'm sorry about your friend, Cocodrillo. Time for a party in hizzoner? Honestly, I have always associated aerials with swing. I never think of salsa clubs as being roomy enough to have bodies flying.
I've never seen aerials performed at a salsa club(thank goodness!) but I have seen them at performances.

[hopelessly_addicted]

i've heard it both ways - cradle the follower's head, DON'T cradle her head. i avoid the controversy in social dancing by not taking a partner beyond a position where she still has some control over her weight distribution (unless she takes a foot off the floor of her own volition - in which case her whole center of mass tends to shift to being unsupported).

I was unaware of the fact that there's a controversy in social dancing re: cradling followers' head. Anyone who knows about it, can you please enlighten me? :D

[leftfeetnyc]

I found it's mostly done in two ways...one by pros/advanced dancers with a beginner; they're trying to keep the follow from throwing her head back and possibly getting whiplash. The other is by people looking to make the dance a bit more sensual. Some followers dislike it as it messes up their hair. That's as much controversy as I know of.

[Larinda McRaven]

I love lift dips drops flips arials and tricks! :D They are fun and are a nice additions and to many dances... However, they are not for everyone, and I certainly would allow myself to dipped by a leader I was unfamiliar with or I didn't trust. But I can easily protect my body and neck if one happens to come out of nowhere.

The head cradle thing is a big deal. I can't stand my head to be cradled. If you are pushing up or supporting my head then I can't arch over in my back to lift my center up. Yet there are many coaches we have worked with that are afraid when we do a stunt and Steve doesn't support my head or neck. I guess there are two very distinct schools of thought on that one.

[luh]

Luh-
That is a COOL photo and you both looked like you were enjoying yourselves. I think a lot of members here have had bad experiences with people throwing them(the leads) into dips resulting in back trauma, as well as women who have been dropped by careless leads. You look like you were obviously being careful AND having fun!


glad you like it. always happy bout things like that. :D


On another, more painful note, a friend of mine broke a leg practicing salsa aerials last week! She will be off the dance floor for several months! I personally don't think salsa & aerials mix at all! :?

oh, I'm sorry for you friend. Good luck for that it gets better was fast as possible!
luh

[Sabor]

Yes another distinct school of thought is determined by color mostly..

if she's creamy white.. i use chocolate or strawberry dip

if she's dark brown.. i use cream or vanilla dip

if she's kinda tan.. no dip necessary :wink:

:lol:

[mamboqueen]

I'm a chocolate with cherry dip kinda girl myself....(we're talking DQ here, right??!!)

[cocodrilo]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:
:shock: What would your husband say??? :lol:

[pygmalion]

Wow. Gotta say I'm glad I missed this thread til now ... the snippy parts, at least. :?

Also, two things. 1.Nice-looking aerials, luh. Really nice. I'm glad you and your friend/partner practiced in advance. But I've gotta admit they look very nice, assuming, of course, that you had plenty of room and no one was caught by surprise.

And 2.You're kinda cute. Can't tell from your avatar. :wink: 8)

[Ms_Sunlight]

luh is cute. But then, I've got a thing for guys with curly hair :D :D :D

[Larinda McRaven]

Yes another distinct school of thought is determined by color mostly..

if she's creamy white.. i use chocolate or strawberry dip

if she's dark brown.. i use cream or vanilla dip

if she's kinda tan.. no dip necessary :wink:

:lol:

oh Sabor :wink: if only you were here earlier......

[cocodrilo]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:
:shock: What would your husband say??? :lol:
"What a mess!" :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:
:shock: What would your husband say??? :lol:
"What a mess!" :lol: :doh: :lol: :lol:

[Twilight_Elena]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:
:shock: What would your husband say??? :lol:
"What a mess!" :lol: :doh: :lol: :lol:

Erhm. You do all realise saganaki is just fried cheese, right? It's not supposed to be in a liquid form, so it can't be used as a dip. And if I were dipped in saganaki by one of the pretty cool guys we've got over here (Greece, that is) I'd slap him around for the cheese that gets stuck in my hair. :lol: :lol:

Twilight Elena

P.s. Being Greek is so cool sometimes. I get to correct all you guys. Heh. :P

[Twilight_Elena]

luh is cute. But then, I've got a thing for guys with curly hair :D :D :D

I like luh's curly hair too. It's very cute and all around lovely. I'd elaborate on that, but I'd be hitting on him. :roll: :P
But on a more general note, lots of hair is always good because you can grab onto it. Enough said. :wink:

Twilight Elena

[pygmalion]

I'd let a nice Greek guy dip me in saganaki... :lol:
:shock: What would your husband say??? :lol:
"What a mess!" :lol: :doh: :lol: :lol:

Erhm. You do all realise saganaki is just fried cheese, right? It's not supposed to be in a liquid form, so it can't be used as a dip. And if I were dipped in saganaki by one of the pretty cool guys we've got over here (Greece, that is) I'd slap him around for the cheese that gets stuck in my hair. :lol: :lol:

Twilight Elena

P.s. Being Greek is so cool sometimes. I get to correct all you guys. Heh. :P

Hmm. It has a Japanese-sounding name, so I assumed saganaki was Japanese. The things you learn in DF. :roll: :wink:

Fried cheese. Where I hail from, we call it ... fried cheese. :roll: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

[Twilight_Elena]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena

[Sagitta]

luh is cute. But then, I've got a thing for guys with curly hair :D :D :D

I have curly hair too and I salsa! :wink: :)

[SDsalsaguy]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena
:lol: Since when does someone need to be Greek to know about Greek food? :wink:

[Sagitta]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena

He's vegatarian. :)

[Twilight_Elena]

luh is cute. But then, I've got a thing for guys with curly hair :D :D :D

I have curly hair too and I salsa! :wink: :)

You just keep on adding to the good stuff list I've got on you, Sagitta... :wink:

Twilight Elena

[Twilight_Elena]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena
:lol: Since when does someone need to be Greek to know about Greek food? :wink:

Oh well, most of the time foreigners know basic stuff. Saganaki is sort of intermediate. The salsa equivalent would be a... sombrero!

Twilight Elena

[SDsalsaguy]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena
:lol: Since when does someone need to be Greek to know about Greek food? :wink:

Oh well, most of the time foreigners know basic stuff. Saganaki is sort of intermediate.
OK, now I've got to know... what do you count as basic, what as intermediate, and what as advanced? :lol:

[Twilight_Elena]

Oh well, most of the time foreigners know basic stuff. Saganaki is sort of intermediate.
OK, now I've got to know... what do you count as basic, what as intermediate, and what as advanced? :lol:

Hmm. Well, souvlaki, mousaka and ouzo are pretty basic Dile Que No, 1-2-3 5-6-7 kinda knowledge. It's like someone saying that Mexico=tacos. Now for other things, I can't really say for certain, but I'd be able to categorise if I had examples. After all, I'm not 100% sure if what I consider greek food is not international! :P

Twilight Elena

[cocodrilo]

OK, OK, you know I meant tzatziki, my slip up! Actually, the guy cuold dip me in the whole plate of mezedes & I'd be happy! :lol:

Saganaki might sound like Japanese- "Nagasaki", anyone?

[pygmalion]

Hey. Not making fun. Without the gutterals, facial expressions and gestures, who can tell? Not me. 8)

And what's tzatziki?

[pygmalion]

Oh. Cucumber-yogurt-dill sauce for dipping. Good for gyros or pita sandwiches. 8) Gotta love :google: :lol: :lol:

Now gyros, I can get into. Those are of Greek origin, right? They rock. :rocker:

I'll never forget my snotty girlfriend, Lisa, who used to blow a gasket because Americans often mis-pronounce gyro. So, everytime we'd go get gyros for lunch, she'd be there, shouting knowledgably above the noisy crowd, "It's pronounced he-rows, not ji-rows." Whatever. They taste good. :lol: :lol:

[cocodrilo]

Aren't those Turkish? The big kebab slab of meat that goes around vertically, on the barbecue, and strips of grilled meat are sliced off it? There's an absolutely fabulous place in Monastiraki that I like to go to when in Athens.

[pygmalion]

All I know is that place that sells gyros also sells souvlaki, a meat-based dish, and some layered, honey-filled pastry thingie. I'm pretty sure they're from Greece. 8)

[pygmalion]

Here's a picture of a gyro. It's kind of a wrap sandsich.

http://www.avgreekfestival.com/foods/gyro_sandwich%5B1%5D.gif

[mamboqueen]

I'm starving; can't even look at that picture. Tease!

[cocodrilo]

All I know is that place that sells gyros also sells souvlaki, a meat-based dish, and some layered, honey-filled pastry thingie. I'm pretty sure they're from Greece. 8)
Baklava is most likely the honey-filled pastry thingee. I LOVE it! Contains a zillion calories but it's fabulous! I ate a chocolate-covered one on Santorini last time that was greaaaaat. 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

... :shock: All this talk about greek delicatessen is making me veeeery hungry. Mostly because they're all 15 mins away. :P

Twilight Elena

[pygmalion]

All I know is that place that sells gyros also sells souvlaki, a meat-based dish, and some layered, honey-filled pastry thingie. I'm pretty sure they're from Greece. 8)
Baklava is most likely the honey-filled pastry thingee. I LOVE it! Contains a zillion calories but it's fabulous! I ate a chocolate-covered one on Santorini last time that was greaaaaat. 8)

Yeah. Yum. My Turkish next-door neighbor used to make it, too. But I'm not sure whether it's also a Turkish dish or she's just as adventurous cook.

Her company dinners were astonishing. Wow. Thousands of calories and worth every single one. 8)

Amazing that this thread used to be about dancing, no? :lol: :lol:

[Twilight_Elena]

Turkey and Greece have many in common as far as cooking is concerned because, after all, we were the Othoman Empire's slaves for 400 years, if anyone recalls from high school history. But greek cuisine is considerably lighter than Turkish cuisine.
Dancing, pygmalion? Just get me some baklava and a couple of forks and I'll be satisfied! (till I start craving for my salsa fix, of course) :lol:

Twilight Elena

[Twilight_Elena]

Oh. Cucumber-yogurt-dill sauce for dipping. Good for gyros or pita sandwiches. 8) Gotta love :google: :lol: :lol:

Actually, tzatziki is not just yogurt and cucumber. We put garlic in as well. Garlic is very essential for tzatziki!
Which means, of course, that you're a natural vampire reppellant for the rest of your stay in Greece. :roll: :lol:

Twilight Elena

[pygmalion]

But greek cuisine is considerably lighter than Turkish cuisine.


Yeah. The last time my neighbor did an authentic Turkish feast, she and her sister were cooking for almost a week in advance. The dishes are rich, heavy, and, oddly enough, have very subtle flavors, in some cases. Oh my goodness. To die for. 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

Ahem. Weren't we talking about dips? :roll: :lol:
I was wondering how on earth there are follows who can bend their backs so much that they're almost folded at dips. Is that put down to natural flexibility or is there some trick to it?

Twilight Elena

[SDsalsaguy]

Both! :wink:

[Twilight_Elena]

Both! :wink:

So what's the trick?

Twilight Elena

[pygmalion]

Dang! We're supposed to get back on topic now? :( :lol:

*bump*

Tricks to dips, anyone? 8)

[Twilight_Elena]

Dang! We're supposed to get back on topic now? :( :lol:

*bump*

Tricks to dips, anyone? 8)

Yeah, EM's wanna know!

Twilight Elena

[Sobrero]

LOL, saganaki isn't just any old fried cheese Jenn, it's a Greek cheese that's typically ignited table-side, in ouzo, and then extinguished with a squeeze of lemon. Most yummy!!!

...It's freaky how you people know so much about Greek stuff. :eyebrow: Got something to tell me?

Twilight Elena
:lol: Since when does someone need to be Greek to know about Greek food? :wink:

Oh well, most of the time foreigners know basic stuff. Saganaki is sort of intermediate.
OK, now I've got to know... what do you count as basic, what as intermediate, and what as advanced? :lol:

Actually I don't think that saganaki is that advanced knowledge! I know other foreignets that know it! however, as far as types of cheese are conserned the most famous greek cheeseis feta! however, there is no way that you can do a dip into feta! It is too hard, almost solid :lol:
Nice conversation by the way I did not know that so many people are interested in Greek Culture :lol: :lol:

[Twilight_Elena]

Yo, Sobrero! I'm trying to bring this topic back to subject here! :P :doh:
Don't tell you haven't had your share of dips (namely one) during the last salsa parties... :wink: :wink: Come on, tell us all about it! :raisebro:

Twilight Elena

[luh]

dangit, how am i supposed to read this thread with out blushing. :oops:
;)
Twilight_Elena:
you do garlic in the tzatziki? That's cool, i don't know how to say this in english, but i'd like to say, you're "sympathisch". dict.leo.org gives me a bunch of possible things it could be in english, but i couldn't decide, I'll just post them all, I'm sure you can figure out yourself which one i meant. ;)
I hope there is nothing under the possible hints of leo, which could be misinterpreted ;)

congenial
friendly
likable
likeable
simpatico
to take to so

off topic:
i like tzatziki just on plain bread.
luh

[pygmalion]

dangit, how am i supposed to read this thread with out blushing. :oops:


That's the whole idea. :wink: :D

[Sagitta]

dangit, how am i supposed to read this thread with out blushing. :oops:


That's the whole idea. :wink: :D

You'll never get me to blush, but my lady friends usually ahve no problem doing so. :P :)

[Twilight_Elena]

So the deep dips. How do you do them? And I mean the really low, the lady bending in half ones.

Twilight Elena

[cocodrilo]

So the deep dips. How do you do them? And I mean the really low, the lady bending in half ones.

Twilight Elena
First of all, the lady has to be flexible enough to do that, that's most of it! I'm practicing a few simple dips (to finish off a snappy salsa song!) when I lead some girl friends, but they're stiff as a board... :?

[Twilight_Elena]

So the deep dips. How do you do them? And I mean the really low, the lady bending in half ones.

Twilight Elena
First of all, the lady has to be flexible enough to do that, that's most of it! I'm practicing a few simple dips (to finish off a snappy salsa song!) when I lead some girl friends, but they're stiff as a board... :?

Flexibility is always a must, but I was hoping there are thinsg you can do to make them better. Any other tricks/secrets in deep dips?

Twilight Elena

[cocodrilo]

So the deep dips. How do you do them? And I mean the really low, the lady bending in half ones.

Twilight Elena
First of all, the lady has to be flexible enough to do that, that's most of it! I'm practicing a few simple dips (to finish off a snappy salsa song!) when I lead some girl friends, but they're stiff as a board... :?

Flexibility is always a must, but I was hoping there are thinsg you can do to make them better. Any other tricks/secrets in deep dips?

Twilight Elena
Instead of us trying to explain it, you should try it! Ask your instructor to practice with you. As you are aware from numerous other threads regarding dips, there is a danger factor involved(girl getting dropped, hitting your head, throwing out your back, etc) so the best way to get into it is by working with an instructor in the safe environment of a studio.

[Twilight_Elena]

My question was more theoretical than practical. After all, I don't plan on dooing such a deep dip in the near future, but I was just wondering if the whole thing has a big trick hidden behind it. I know they're dangerous, "don't try this at home" acrobatics. :wink:

Twilight Elena

[luh]

does it have to be with bending?
i remember that my salsateacher taught me to dip (yes - the feet were on the ground - not swingin' dips ) very deep, but she didn't have to bend to hard. i had to hold my left hand on her neck, and the other one on her back, and than just dipped her like 5 inches close to the floor. though it worked, it was a very uncool dip, because you really had the whole weight of your partner, and that seemed dangerous (more than the swingin' ones - there the follower has to do quite a few work in the dip herself).
luh

[cornutt]

I love lift dips drops flips arials and tricks! :D They are fun and are a nice additions and to many dances... However, they are not for everyone, and I certainly would allow myself to dipped by a leader I was unfamiliar with or I didn't trust.

My wife and I saw you and Steve at a performance do one where he starts to dip you, lets go, claps his hands over his head, and then catches you before you hit the floor. For some reason, she won't let me practice that on her. :wink:

Seriously, I don't do dips with anyone but a partner that I know and trust. One of the few advantages of being a big guy in dancing is that I'm pretty strong, and I can support my partner if her feet come out from under her or some such. But it's got to be a scary experience for a less experienced amateur. So I won't dip a woman unless I think she's up for it, even if she asks. My wife and I have a routine where I take her down to the floor and back up. I won't do that with anyone other than her, or our instructor.

[Dave]

My question was more theoretical than practical. After all, I don't plan on dooing such a deep dip in the near future, but I was just wondering if the whole thing has a big trick hidden behind it. I know they're dangerous, "don't try this at home" acrobatics. :wink:
If your main concern is doing a deep dip, you can do that without significantly arching your back. Other things being equal, the less you arch, the more weight the man has to take, but with the right technique, you can still support most of your weight.

As a man, I'm kind of hesitant to advise on that technique, but basically, you will take your weight on the foot closest to the man (not true for 100% of drops, but a good rule of thumb). As you lower, try to keep your center as close to that foot as possible, letting the other leg slide out, but keeping it on the floor! You want to take as much weight on the supporting foot as possible - it helps to try and raise your pelvis (so there is some arching involved, but just making sure your spine doesn't sag will make a big difference). For a deep dip you will probably find you end up with the heel of the supporting foot off the ground - this is normal.

Finally, do not let your head go back (unless you and your partner are very confident with the move). Turning to the side (i.e. facing the audience) generally looks better on a low dip, but more importantly, it's a lot safer - you don't want your head to be the thing that hits the ground if something goes wrong. The head is also heavy, with momentum of its own, so flinging it back makes things harder for the man, and can actually give the lady whiplash as well.

On the man's side, the #1 critical thing is to keep the lady's center close to you. Strength will not save you from overbalancing if she gets too far away from you. Keep your back as straight as possible - bend your legs rather than your back. Outside of performance dancing, don't "drop" the lady, lower her under control (fast drops put more strain on the body - a lot more strain if your technique isn't perfect).

When doing hand-to-hand drops (i.e. man is holding your hands/wrists rather than having an arm about your body), I'll add something I find helpful but I know a lot of people disagree with. If you trust the man, let your arms go straight (under control), and give him the responsibility for lowering and raising you safely. I find that much easier than if the lady "helps" by bending her arms.

[Sobrero]

Thank you Dave :notworth: :notworth:

This responce was very insightful!!
I think that now I can finally understand dips!!!

Sobrero

[Twilight_Elena]

Dave, you just solved many of my problems. :D

Twilight Elena