1,2,3 or quick quick slow

[dragon3085]

When you need to count for salsa, like for a routine or when learning new techniques for example (as opposed to just dancing in da club") Which method do you prefer. I learned with quicks and slows and thought they were great- until someone pointed out to me that they were foot inspecific. In other words if your a guy and your dancing say on the 1- You know if your are counting with number that 1 is the left foot and the 5 is the Right foot. So if you trying to come out a shine or maybe a particulary complex pattern you can avoid foot confusion. I think this is a powerful tool especially for intermediate level dancers who are starting to get into the nitty gritty stuff. Any thought? Opinions?

Patrick

[tj]

When you need to count for salsa, like for a routine or when learning new techniques for example (as opposed to just dancing in da club") Which method do you prefer. I learned with quicks and slows and thought they were great- until someone pointed out to me that they were foot inspecific. In other words if your a guy and your dancing say on the 1- You know if your are counting with number that 1 is the left foot and the 5 is the Right foot. So if you trying to come out a shine or maybe a particulary complex pattern you can avoid foot confusion. I think this is a powerful tool especially for intermediate level dancers who are starting to get into the nitty gritty stuff. Any thought? Opinions?

Patrick

Two things come to mind:

If/when someone's doing a complex pattern, and if one of them can't keep 1's and 5's right, that's a bad thing. The dance connection is going to break down because the lead won't match up properly with the follow's footwork.

If/when someone's doing a shine, gets off beat, but starts up afterwards right back on beat, then it's perfectly acceptable.

One of the best dancers in Seattle has a tendency to get off beat, especially during his shines. It also depends on the level of the follow that he's dancing with, too.

[borikensalsero]

Different people use different techniques. To me there is no difference between the quick slow and the numbers. If you don't know that you need to get onto a given beat with a foot, then it has more to do than just numbers.

All I know is that when I hear the one no matter if my feet are up in the air, I should be getting ready to step with either the left foward or the right back. The music itself counts, why should I count? However, it helps a lot of people out, so I see its purpose and use. As for me, I rather do without them, I let the music count for me, and know what foot goes where given the beat the music is on.

[dragon3085]

One of the best dancers in Seattle has a tendency to get off beat, especially during his shines. It also depends on the level of the follow that he's dancing with, too.

Tim, You don't get off beat. :twisted:

[Sagitta]

I cannot count! :oops: Why do I say this? Yesterday night I was doing rueda and someone told me you keep on drifting to dancing on 2. It just so happened that I found it natural to do so for that particular song we were playing. I always try to let my body respond to the music, rather then dictating to the music what I want to do. It took a great deal of concentration on my part to dance on 3 as the other were doing.

Because of the variety of ways one can break forward, on1, on2, on3...I feel that learning moves as quick, quick, slow works out better.

[borikensalsero]

I cannot count! :oops: Why do I say this? Yesterday night I was doing rueda and someone told me you keep on drifting to dancing on 2. It just so happened that I found it natural to do so for that particular song we were playing. I always try to let my body respond to the music, rather then dictating to the music what I want to do. It took a great deal of concentration on my part to dance on 3 as the other were doing.

I couldn't count for a long while. My Lady Love used to ask me how in the world I used to stay on beat if I didn't know the count. Like you, I just allowed my body to go with what it felt was right. That happend to be the 2.

to me it never mattered where the 1 or 5 where. Once I was on beat, I wouldn't switch the one or the five. Those beats never mattered, what mattered was staying on the same beat I strated the dance with.

[mellody43]

TJ: You're in Seattle? Me too! Where do you like to go dancing?

I prefer counting 1-8 when learning a new step. Of course, I haven't taken a lesson for anything other than learning the basic and for that all I needed was quick-quick-slow... For more involved, partnered moves that really take the entire 8 counts I do need a little counting the first few times.

=)
Melissa

[Genesius Redux]

The teachers at the club where I dance use numbers, but the numbers don't correspond to beats--only to the steps. So they say 1, 2, 3--4, 5, 6. And they tell people to pause on 3 and 6. As a musician, this would have way confused me if I hadn't had dance experience.

When I show someone new a basic, I'll sometimes use directional words, like "Forward, Step, Back, Back, Step, Forward," in rhythm. Quicks and slows only tell you the rhythm--not the steps. That's fine if you're just doing a basic. But even a simple cross-body lead, "Forward, Side, Side, (Forward) Pivot, Forward, Forward," can benefit by descriptions of steps. Or "Break, 5th, Dig; Swivel, Swivel, Together; Side, Break, Together, Side, Break, Together."

So I said I prefer quicks and slows, but like Boriken says--I can hear the rhythm and I want to learn the steps.

[tj]

TJ: You're in Seattle? Me too! Where do you like to go dancing?


...Thread hijacking alert! :roll:

Mostly the Century on Thurs/Sat. Occasionally the Wilsonian (haven't been in over a month) on Tues. And this past Wednesday night, I checked out Dance Underground hosted by Cebrina.

I've been taking classes by Marcello on Mondays, and plan on checking out some of the other instructors eventually.

The nice thing about the Seattle salsa scene is that it's so large and that there's a place to go every night of the week. I may have danced with you in the past, Melissa, but honestly, I don't recognize you from your avatar. I came (and learned) from a much smaller scene (Denver) so I'm used to knowing *everybody* which just won't happen in a scene where they can fill a 4000' ballroom with 400-500 dancers.

So where do you usually go? I think I recall you saying that you're going dancing tonight - are you checking out Cambalache? Actually, I'm skipping tonight, mostly cuz I'm beat after dancing 4 out of the past 6 days. Plus I want to save up energy since I've been invited to go dancing in Portland Saturday night (never been).

Save a dance for me in the near future, k?

[tj]

One of the best dancers in Seattle has a tendency to get off beat, especially during his shines. It also depends on the level of the follow that he's dancing with, too.

Tim, You don't get off beat. :twisted:

Lol! Thank you, Patrick...

[mellody43]

TJ: Just sent you a message.

Cebrina is amazing - I saw her dancing at the Century a week or so ago and was like this: :shock: the whole time. hehe!

I do not have anywhere that amount of moves or shines -- *weep*

Must. Take. Lessons.

[Vince A]

I voted "do not count," as is evidenced by my inept dancing abilities . . . however, just recently, I started using chemical formulas as a suitable sub for counting!!!

[tj]

Cebrina is amazing - I saw her dancing at the Century a week or so ago and was like this: :shock: the whole time. hehe!

She's an amazing dancer.


I do not have anywhere that amount of moves or shines -- *weep*

Not many do!

IMHO, sheer numbers of moves/shines does not make the dancer...


Must. Take. Lessons.
Nah - take 'em if you find it useful and fun. If/when a person takes lessons cuz they want to dance like Instructor "X", I think they're putting way too high expectations on themselves.

I've come across lots and lots of people who talk about how they must do "X", and then never do it. I think it's just human nature at work. Isn't there a thread on this somewhere?

[pygmalion]

LOL. I only count if my partner needs/wants me to count for him. :wink: 8)

[Sagitta]

Must. Take. Lessons.
Nah - take 'em if you find it useful and fun. If/when a person takes lessons cuz they want to dance like Instructor "X", I think they're putting way too high expectations on themselves.

I've come across lots and lots of people who talk about how they must do "X", and then never do it. I think it's just human nature at work. Isn't there a thread on this somewhere?

The procrastination thread in da.

[tj]

Must. Take. Lessons.
Nah - take 'em if you find it useful and fun. If/when a person takes lessons cuz they want to dance like Instructor "X", I think they're putting way too high expectations on themselves.

I've come across lots and lots of people who talk about how they must do "X", and then never do it. I think it's just human nature at work. Isn't there a thread on this somewhere?

The procrastination thread in da.

I'll look for it later. :wink:

[Danish Guy]

I feel the quick quick slow have too much ballroom feeling.

I always use the 123, 567 count learning new moves or shines.
This open up for the 12345678 count, if this matches the steps, or 123. 5 and 6 and 7 if things are speeding up.

Dancing the moves, I have a feel for the beat more then a count.
(But working on being in the music)
To “reconstruct” a move the counts are great.

[Jack]

I usually go 123 567 or quick quick slow

[mellody43]

Nah - take 'em if you find it useful and fun.
I would find them useful and fun, definitely. I don't really know where I fit in - intermediate, I'd guess, but I don't know the names of any moves. Oh well =)

[tj]

Nah - take 'em if you find it useful and fun.
I would find them useful and fun, definitely. I don't really know where I fit in - intermediate, I'd guess,

Only one way to find out! It's probably better to take something too hard rather than be bored in something too easy. And I've seen beginners take advanced classes here in Seattle, so you'll more likely than not, be ahead of the curve.

As far as I know, there's only one instructor in town who insists you pass certain classes before moving up in level.


but I don't know the names of any moves. Oh well =)

I don't think it's important that you do... Even leads don't need this unless you're trying to communicate patterns with buddies over the 'Net or if you're learning rueda.

[mellody43]

So who is the one instructor who insists on following the "plan"? =)
(Wondering if it's Hallie at the Century?)

Melissa

[tj]

So who is the one instructor who insists on following the "plan"? =)
(Wondering if it's Hallie at the Century?)

Melissa

Yup, she's the one I heard that does.

I think it's a good thing. There are too many students in the "Advanced" class that I've been taking that don't even know a CBL or can properly stay on beat.

It's a case of dancers trying to do too much, and focusing on moves and patterns rather than technique and fundamentals. I don't find it coincidental that so many people leave really really quickly once class ends (even though they'll play music after lesson and let you dance for hours if you want).

I got "interrogated" once when I was visiting London. I couldn't find the club, and was like 20 minutes late getting there. The class (before open dancing) had about 5-6 more follows than leads, so I just walked up next to one of the follows. The instructor stopped the whole class and started asking me questions. It was good thing.

Have fun tonight! I'm finally leaving work and going home...

[ShyDancer]

I use an assortment of counts..depends what dance Im doing!

Lets just use Parma Waltz as an example, I count that as 123, 223, 323,423, walk w,w,w, Toe, toe ,toe lower, t,t,tl t,t,tl, t,t,tl , push, out swivel, out, in ,out ,in, 123, 223, 323,423,523,624,723, side close.

Kinda confusing to anyone who knows the dance, Even my teacher stopped me to ask why on earth I was counting like that :lol: but its how my mind works!

But for The tangoette, I always use S S Q Q S.

Its hard for even me to understand why I do it :lol: :lol:

I just do whatever tricks my mind best into remebering it all!

[johnnywalker]

It depends on what i'm dancing. For example, i'll use quicks and slows in Tango (as I have a tendency to speed things up) whereas I prefer to count in latin dances.
I remember a previous ballroom instructor use to replace slow with 'slowly' when I was first learning to waltz due to my desire to accelerate. She would yell it out from across the floor to ensure I did it correctly.
In rueda I would occassionally play around and put some partners off who would count aloud. Instead of 123/567 I would be saying 483/596 or any other combination of numbers. Thankfully, no one really got annoyed with me.

[Haz]

In rueda I would occassionally play around and put some partners off who would count aloud. Instead of 123/567 I would be saying 483/596 or any other combination of numbers. Thankfully, no one really got annoyed with me.

Hehe, I'm going to try that next salsa class. Sounds like a laugh and a half.

[salsachinita]

TJ: You're in Seattle? Me too! Where do you like to go dancing?


...Thread hijacking alert! :roll:

Consider this thread hijacked s'more :wink: !

TJ & Melissa, I LOOOOOVE Seattle....! Apart from Melbourne it would be the other place I'd consider living.

When I last visited, the salsa scene was still relatively small (same size as Melbourne), with great vibes. Is Gustavo ("El General") still part of the scene.....?

What's the scene like now...? *PM me if you like....as we don't want to hijack this thread too much :lol: *

[youngsta]

I don't use either of them. Like boriken I let the music do all the work. It's just natural for me to hear it.

...TJ get down here so I can see your skills! :lol:

[Soñador]

I don't use either of them. Like boriken I let the music do all the work. It's just natural for me to hear it.

Heheh same here xcept when I learn some new moves then I use the 1, 2, 3. I dunno how people can learn something with quick, quick, slow...

[Sagitta]

I do. When I learn a move I focus on when the move is executed based on my feet movement. For this the count is irrelevant. When I break I have the quicks, and then the slow. Based on internalized ideas such as these I work out the moves. This actually make sit easier for when I break on 1 or 3. I know my body is in such a position and so I can execute particular moves a certain way.

(By the way, I can talk a good deal about stuff, but I'm still a raw beginner. But, I'm all about learning ways to cram as much as possible into the shortest period of time.)

[tj]

...TJ get down here so I can see your skills! :lol:

Lol! Easy there, big boy! I better deflate your expectations of me!

Yes, I'm familiar with the latest moves/patterns that are popular here in Seattle, (and that we didn't do in Denver, - well, at least last spring - maybe it's been brought there by now). And yes, I believe I can do them with the majority of the follows that I know from Denver (aka Mabry, Judith, Donna, Cece, Amy, Amanda, Lila, et al). And yes, I've become quite disciplined when it comes to staying in the slot.

But....

In no way, shape, or form am I as good as the best dancers here in Seattle. The shines and body isolations and styling are outstanding. It's something that I'm only beginning to pick up. If you show me a pattern, I can probably figure it out - but if someone is syncopating and body isolating, I probably can't. And I'm still a bit of a novice when it comes to improvising to the music.

[youngsta]

...TJ get down here so I can see your skills! :lol:

Lol! Easy there, big boy! I better deflate your expectations of me!

Yes, I'm familiar with the latest moves/patterns that are popular here in Seattle, (and that we didn't do in Denver, - well, at least last spring - maybe it's been brought there by now). And yes, I believe I can do them with the majority of the follows that I know from Denver (aka Mabry, Judith, Donna, Cece, Amy, Amanda, Lila, et al). And yes, I've become quite disciplined when it comes to staying in the slot.
First off I MUST have seen you before. You named pretty much every one of the regulars I dance with. Secondly, I wasn't trying to put any pressure on you. Sounds like we're probably around the same skill level. I just enjoy watching others do their thing.

[squirrel]

:) I think that both 123 567 and quick quick slow counts are very useful... i use them both when teaching... i also use left right left, right left right to point to the foot that should be moved, since some beginners have the tendency to move the same foot on both 123 and 567... :)

[tj]

...TJ get down here so I can see your skills! :lol:

Lol! Easy there, big boy! I better deflate your expectations of me!

Yes, I'm familiar with the latest moves/patterns that are popular here in Seattle, (and that we didn't do in Denver, - well, at least last spring - maybe it's been brought there by now). And yes, I believe I can do them with the majority of the follows that I know from Denver (aka Mabry, Judith, Donna, Cece, Amy, Amanda, Lila, et al). And yes, I've become quite disciplined when it comes to staying in the slot.
First off I MUST have seen you before. You named pretty much every one of the regulars I dance with.
Lol! We probably have seen each other. I used to be a regular at Matties.


Secondly, I wasn't trying to put any pressure on you. Sounds like we're probably around the same skill level. I just enjoy watching others do their thing.

Sounds good! Me, too.

[MapleLeaf Salsero]

I never count when dancing socially. I hear the music and just dance.

At the studio, I sometimes count when learning/practicing a new pattern (especially when there´s no music). So for me it´s the 123 567 (never done the quick quick slow thing before in my life, except in ballroom rumba).