Cuban vs cross body music

[Posh salsa girl]

As someone who can dance both Cuban and cross body, I am happy to dance both styles to any kind of salsa music. However, I sometimes find if I ask a guy to dance Cuban he won't because 'it's not a Cuban track'. How can I differentiate between Cuban and crossbody music???

[sweavo]

Coo, a tough question to answer quickly on a forum. A big giveaway is if the tune has a bass drum on 3 and 4 ... that pretty much never happens on cross-body music. The salsa-music of choice in Cuba is called "timba" and evolved a couple of major steps since the US embargo cut off Cuba's influence on salsa music in North America. To me it sounds like it is tumbling over itself more... instrument parts seem to cut in over the top of one another more.

If you search on youtube for "timba" and then for "mambo" or "NY salsa" you should get a few very different feelings of music.

Hope that helps!

[tj]

Welcome to DF, Posh Salsa Girl.

As I mentioned to Jake, we also have a "sister" forum, www.salsaforums.com

[Posh salsa girl]

Thanks sweavo, I'll give it a try!

If you can give me any specific examples, that would be good also.. :wink:

[englezul]

It has this jumpy feel to it, and the texture sounds generally brighter. I believe the cowbells sound lighter than in new yorikan salsa and the patterns are less syncopated or not syncopated at all.

[Posh salsa girl]

Do you mean Cuban has a jumpy feel to it or NY??

[sweavo]

Lol. That's the problem with text! You might thing timba's more jumpy and I might think there's nothing more jumpy than Sonora Carruseles (colombian).

Seriously, youtubing for Timba will get you pure cuban salsa. youtubing for "salsa" will get you all sorts, and youtubing for "mambo" will get you another set of stuff. The stuff that's in both "salsa" and "mambo" categories will mostly be cross-body salsa; the stuff in "timba" category will be purely cuban salsa.

[MacMoto]

Here are some of the songs typically associated with Cuban style salsa dancing (timba):
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hBQGoSShv54
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-YE_QFzce68
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WIwcSG7wb3A

Here are some of the songs typically associated with on2 crossbody salsa dancing (mambo/latin jazz):
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-z5fzuavXGA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fOioo4HYAVE
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fjvLEncH5so

Then there's a whole lot of salsa songs good for crossbody but not great for Cuban style:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1CoAw0Wdnhk
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNaepvNiOY
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Zusb4nIxR1o
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C_hNUnTVHDs

[sweavo]

well done mac! I must get my youtube access fixed!

[tangotime]

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How can I differentiate between Cuban and crossbody music???


There is a very comprehensive, extensive list on Salsa/Jive.. a UK site

[Posh salsa girl]

Many thanks MacMoto, that's really helpful!! :-)

[timberamayor]

As someone who can dance both Cuban and cross body, I am happy to dance both styles to any kind of salsa music. However, I sometimes find if I ask a guy to dance Cuban he won't because 'it's not a Cuban track'. How can I differentiate between Cuban and crossbody music???

Once you've listened to enough Cuban music you'll hear the difference immediately. But many dance instructors don't play Cuban music, even when teaching casino and rueda de casino because they are afraid it will be too hard for students to find the beat. I disagree with that. I think it is underestimating the intelligence of the dancers. But I suspect that your teachers have not been playing Cuban music in your classes (assuming also that you learned cuban dancing in class) or you would recognize the difference.

For everything you ever wanted to know about Timba but were afraid to ask check out http://www.timba.com. There are sections about all the major Timba artists and a whole educational section that breaks down the music into individual instruments and shows how they work together in an arrangement. As well as a break down of "clave debates".

You can my video playlists at YouTube where you can find videos by timba artists.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=timberamayor&view=playlists

My favorites timba groups right now are
Los Van Van
Orquesta Revé
Manolito y Su Trabuco
Pupy y los que son son
Havana D'Primera
Maykel Blanco y Salsa Mayor

englezul said: It has this jumpy feel to it, and the texture sounds generally brighter. I believe the cowbells sound lighter than in new yorikan salsa and the patterns are less syncopated or not syncopated at all.

Interesting. Actually it is more synchopated than regular salsa, it is poly-polyrhythmic. There are usually more percussion instruments than in regular salsa, and the bass, drums and horns often incorprate funk into the music. At the same time the "foreign" influences are balanced by an increased afro-cuban element which can often be heard in the interplay between the kick-drum and the bass in a way that is similar to the batá drums used in afro-cuban religious music.

From a Timba fan point of view, the reason many Cuban style dancers prefer timba is because it is simply more exciting to us. There is a lot more happening with multiple climaxes in the song. Things explode when the montuno arrives and with each new coro there are changes to the rhythmic pattens that affect how the dancers react. There are sections where the bass starts playing long drawn out notes and much of the percussion will drop out or change it's pattern significantly. When this happens the dancers stop the turn patterns and switch to despelote or tembleque or maybe even afro-cuban rumba. Sometimes the songs will also have sudden changes in tempo, like a major tempo drop. All of this combines to make for a very exciting experience with each song. Of course each band does it in their own way so no two bands sound the same.

Here is one of my favorite casino videos. The song is "Nube pasajera" by La Charanga Habanera and is an excellent example of all the aspects of timba music that I was mentioning and a classic Timba song. You can also see how the dancers react to the changes in the rhythm section. In this video they most often switch to afro-cuban rumba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-30RzT2wn64