Argentine Tango circa 1900 - 1925

[Steve Pastor]

I remember reading at least two posts by Richard Powers, dance historian at Standford years ago, and was surprised at the content. I thought I had saved a copy of those posts, but I have been unable to find them. I also have not been able to find them on the web where I had originally seen them. Stuff appearing from the web? What a surprise!
Anyhow, this was the best I could do. It is a summary of sorts of his two longer posts.

Richard Powers August 27, 1999 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.dance/msg/fa926802e893866c

Most Argentines think that social dancers similarly changed their tango.
Yes and no.

I've spent quite a bit of time on the evolution of both dances, going
back to descriptions of original forms from the beginning of the century.

Yes, of course, today's International competition versions have added
lots of ballroom styling and variations.
--> BUT <--
Not many people know that today's informal social ballroom samba and tango are largely unchanged from the original Brazilian samba and Argentine tango.
The Brazilians and Argentines have actually changed these dances more over the years than social ballroom dancers have. (Which is fine -- they are certainly allowed to change their own dances).

If you are interested, here is the story. You won't read this in any
book... the research is too new:

This same dynamic happened to the Argentine tango when it was transplanted to Paris around 1908-10 and found fertile soil there. Europeans and Americans discovered a dance called tango, decided they loved it, and kept it as a permanent addition to their collection of dances.

With the exception of much-changed "International" (British) competition
ballroom tango (with the non-Argentine head-snaps), social dancers have
had little reason to reconfigure the version they adopted in 1910. So
they didn't change it much. Really.

In Buenos and Montevideo, the tango changed, and changed again, like any living tradition.

Juan Carlos Copes told me that when he traveled to New York City dance
studios in 1959 to teach the Argentine tango as it had evolved in its
homeland over fifty years, most of the studios said, "No thank you, we
already *have* a dance called tango and we don't need a different one."
So he had to wait another 20 years before the northern hemisphere was
ready to accept the newer tango Argentino.

Yes, I have detailed, illustrated descriptions of El Tango Argentino de
Salon written by Argentine dance instructors in Buenos Aires in 1914, and
it is (was) VERY similar to today's social ballroom tango, and not too
much like today's tango Argentino. Again because 'gringo' dancers have
had no reason to change it, and Argentines have.

Richard

[tangotime]

I


This same dynamic happened to the Argentine tango when it was transplanted to Paris around 1908-10 and found fertile soil there.







Here are additions to the " timeline ". Circa 1912.. London ballrooms were holding regular tango " Tea " dances, primarily to a Habanera rhythm, but after the war of 1914/18 ,this was supplanted by a Milonga rhythm , and , the 1st Tango to be included in World. comp. was won by a couple from B.Aires in 1913.
.Championships at this time were 1 dance events, and all were held in France.

The current style the English use, didnt begin take its first form till the 20s and was a much milder version of what we see today. The beginnings of todays version ,is attributed to an Amat. couple from Germany , who danced in the 1936 B/Pool comp., using the staccato action .

This was developed even further, to todays interpretation ,by Henry Jacques and Len Scrivener .
.

[Angel HI]

Also, it was Juan Carlos Cope's long time partner, Maria Nieves, who said in an U.S. interview a few years ago, "The Argentine Tango is the only authentic tango. The American Tango is, actually, a reasonable representation of it, when it is danced well...like the Argentine. The European tango...is another dance altogether...wishing it were tango."

Loved it. In a subsequent conversation, I asked her to expound. She said, "When I have seen the amer tango danced w/o the stacattoed stiffness that it seems to enjoy, it can be watched as something closely coming from Authentic tango. It is danced in ones and threes...like our AT. The European tango is stiffened and stuffy and rigid, and danced in 2's, and this, in my opinion, loses the flavor...the innate naturalness."

Just sharing.

[tangotime]

European tango is stiffened and stuffy and rigid, and danced in 2's, and this, in my opinion, loses the flavor...the innate naturalness."

Just sharing.


There was as time when I would have defended the " other " style, but, once having tried T/A, ( Just like Eng. style Latin ) one can make a very considered opinion on the differences ( which are somewhat monumental )

The competitive arena , has always had a knack, for what many consider a dilution and over embellishment ,of the original forms of pretty much all social dances... (Its called progress... ?? )

[Steve Pastor]

"Then he (Lampazo, the late and legendary tanguero of Villa Urquiza) held up his hands a second time, bringing them in close to each other, pisitioning them vertical and parallel. THis was tango liso (smoothed over tango), whcih emerged about 1905-10, according to Jorge Novati and Ines Cuello, historinas of Argentine dance. He was diagramming, at the same time, tango de salon, the tango as it was codified in a dance instruction book published by Nicanor Lima in 1916. In both liso and salon, dancers hold the back straight."
"Tango - The Art History of Love" (TAHT) page 152

Note, by 1916 in Argentina in both liso and salon "dancers hold the back straight".

Also, a "codified" tango was presented by an Argentine in 1916.

[Steve Pastor]

From the book "Tango!..."

"the fierce, lubricious aggressiveness favoured in the outer barrios eventually faded away - though reconstructions of it , in "performance tangos", can still be seen to spectacular effect in shows such as "Tango Argentino" of the 1980s."

[Gssh]

This is one of the ideas that i have never gotten my head really around - but then i am not clear what the "informal social ballroom tango" that he refers to as opposed to the competition ballroom tango that i have seen looks like.
One of the earlies performances of AT i know of is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fpCj5hY_U

(which, if this is eduardo arolas has to be before 1924).

(there are other early pieces, like http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298) but this is (seems to be?) for an argentine audience.)

Now i see quite a few elements that seem to be technically mirrorred more in ballroom than in modern tango (both facing the same direction, the other couple doing a promende, ), but overall it looks to me very much like a modern AT / or a slow modern milonga, and not a modern ballroom dance - i am not sure how this comes accross in the written descriptions he is referring to, but the vibe and movement logic is very AT, and i have stolen a few ideas for my own dancing, something that never happens with modern ballroom. I just simply dont see how this pre-1924 performance is unchanged represented by modern ballroom tango.

(interesting details: at 1:10 they break the embrace, the candombe jumps 1:46 that is used only in milonga nowadays, and the general fact that vertical changes are a big element of their style, and there are tons of little saccadas going on)

Gssh

[bordertangoman]

This is one of the ideas that i have never gotten my head really around - but then i am not clear what the "informal social ballroom tango" that he refers to as opposed to the competition ballroom tango that i have seen looks like.
One of the earlies performances of AT i know of is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fpCj5hY_U

(which, if this is eduardo arolas has to be before 1924).

(there are other early pieces, like http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298) but this is (seems to be?) for an argentine audience.)

Now i see quite a few elements that seem to be technically mirrorred more in ballroom than in modern tango (both facing the same direction, the other couple doing a promende, ), but overall it looks to me very much like a modern AT / or a slow modern milonga, and not a modern ballroom dance - i am not sure how this comes accross in the written descriptions he is referring to, but the vibe and movement logic is very AT, and i have stolen a few ideas for my own dancing, something that never happens with modern ballroom. I just simply dont see how this pre-1924 performance is unchanged represented by modern ballroom tango.

(interesting details: at 1:10 they break the embrace, the candombe jumps 1:46 that is used only in milonga nowadays, and the general fact that vertical changes are a big element of their style, and there are tons of little saccadas going on)

Gssh

what great clip.

[tangotime]

but then i am not clear what the "informal social ballroom tango" that he refers to as opposed to the competition ballroom tango that i have seen looks like.


My guess might be a reference to the American style Bronze social ? . This does incorporate several modified variations in its concept from T/A ( after all, that where they got it from ! )

I actually teach the Amer. style Tango to my beginners classes in the U.K. , and reserve my other 2 styles as separate entities . As they progress, I sometimes add elements from the other styles ,as deemed necessary .

[bastet]

This is one of the ideas that i have never gotten my head really around - but then i am not clear what the "informal social ballroom tango" that he refers to as opposed to the competition ballroom tango that i have seen looks like.
One of the earlies performances of AT i know of is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fpCj5hY_U

(which, if this is eduardo arolas has to be before 1924).

(there are other early pieces, like http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298 (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17298) but this is (seems to be?) for an argentine audience.)

Now i see quite a few elements that seem to be technically mirrorred more in ballroom than in modern tango (both facing the same direction, the other couple doing a promende, ), but overall it looks to me very much like a modern AT / or a slow modern milonga, and not a modern ballroom dance - i am not sure how this comes accross in the written descriptions he is referring to, but the vibe and movement logic is very AT, and i have stolen a few ideas for my own dancing, something that never happens with modern ballroom. I just simply dont see how this pre-1924 performance is unchanged represented by modern ballroom tango.

(interesting details: at 1:10 they break the embrace, the candombe jumps 1:46 that is used only in milonga nowadays, and the general fact that vertical changes are a big element of their style, and there are tons of little saccadas going on)

Gssh

I think it is later than 1924- the main dancers clothing is all wrong for anything before 1930. Dropped waist, rather than accentuated waist and blouse was fashionable. And the shoes are more in line with the 1930's- thick and chunky.

But i do know that some of the bronze American tango has it's basis in early AT...I think the people to watch for that would be the background dancers rather than the "cutting edge" couple.

You might see more of that in the background dancers in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yv9V-3APpc&feature=related

[jennyisdancing]

yeah, the one gssh posted has to be later than 1924 - "talkies" weren't around then. And the clothes and ladies' hairstyles definitely look 1940's to me. Both clips are really cool, though.

I think it is later than 1924- the main dancers clothing is all wrong for anything before 1930. Dropped waist, rather than accentuated waist and blouse was fashionable. And the shoes are more in line with the 1930's- thick and chunky.

But i do know that some of the bronze American tango has it's basis in early AT...I think the people to watch for that would be the background dancers rather than the "cutting edge" couple.

You might see more of that in the background dancers in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yv9V-3APpc&feature=related

[bordertangoman]

in this interview with Oscar Casas are clips of dancers and orchestas; most too short

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUU5zBzDQAo

[opendoor]

@ .. Most Argentines think that social dancers similarly changed their tango. Yes and no.

Hi Steve, good post, intersting thread: I would agree, like in biology (evolution theory), the english and international T has conserved ancient attributes, while changing other stuff at the same time.

@ ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fpCj5hY_U .. which .. has to be before 1924...

Some time ago I posted the Arolas vid at the video section together with the question, what style actually is shown. I suppose it is Orillero. There was no definite answer, so, what do you think?

And finally, I think there is a similar developement in the argentine walz: Remember, BTM posted that Hugo de Carril vid (http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=697220&postcount=51) (dancing and singing Desde el Alma). Have you seen him and the people in the background dancing vals ? Its almost like rural people in Germany or Austria would try to dance VW today.

[Steve Pastor]

One day I'm going to be able to make Youtube work.
And I'm really not anywhere close to beign an expert on styles.

In the meantime...
One of the reasons I post this stuff, is that when you read about "old" tango, I mean REALLY old tango, both the music and the dance, and you consider that it's been around for over 100 years, it gets really hard to think narrowly about the thing.
When I see the variety in the embace, the position of the arms, etc, of photographs and sheet music covers.... It's just all over the place. There are several photos of both man/woman couples, and even men practicing together (these guys were on their way to a milonga somewhere, according to the text) where the are completely open with bodies parallel, with joined arms pointing straight out.

A bit more from the boook...
"in the course of time it became popular in dance halls patronized by Italian immigrants... Here the wilder and more aggressive cortes and quebradas were toned down, and what became known as tango liso emerged." This has been called the "Italianization" of tango, and professional dancers were known to have worked in these halls.
Keep in mind that this happened BEFORE tango went to Paris.

And you know, I have yet to see vals mentioned in these books.
I'm beginning to think that it's like when a "Western Swing" band plays blues, or waltz. (which they did a lot) Is it a "Western Swing Blues" or a "Western Swing Waltz" or is it simply a blues played by a Western Swing band, and a waltz played by a Western Swing band?
When Elvis did "Milk Cow Blues" uptempo, WAY uptempo, was it a Rockabilly Blues, or a blues in the Rockabilly style, or what?

[hbboogie1]

One day I'm going to be able to make Youtube work.
And I'm really not anywhere close to beign an expert on styles.

In the meantime...
One of the reasons I post this stuff, is that when you read about "old" tango, I mean REALLY old tango, both the music and the dance, and you consider that it's been around for over 100 years, it gets really hard to think narrowly about the thing.
When I see the variety in the embace, the position of the arms, etc, of photographs and sheet music covers.... It's just all over the place. There are several photos of both man/woman couples, and even men practicing together (these guys were on their way to a milonga somewhere, according to the text) where the are completely open with bodies parallel, with joined arms pointing straight out.

A bit more from the boook...
"in the course of time it became popular in dance halls patronized by Italian immigrants... Here the wilder and more aggressive cortes and quebradas were toned down, and what became known as tango liso emerged." This has been called the "Italianization" of tango, and professional dancers were known to have worked in these halls.
Keep in mind that this happened BEFORE tango went to Paris.

And you know, I have yet to see vals mentioned in these books.
I'm beginning to think that it's like when a "Western Swing" band plays blues, or waltz. (which they did a lot) Is it a "Western Swing Blues" or a "Western Swing Waltz" or is it simply a blues played by a Western Swing band, and a waltz played by a Western Swing band?
When Elvis did "Milk Cow Blues" uptempo, WAY uptempo, was it a Rockabilly Blues, or a blues in the Rockabilly style, or what?

Steve I'm not an expert on orgins of vals but this sounds interesting

Vals Peruano (Waltz)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Vals (Peruvian))
The Vals Peruano (known in Peru as the Vals Criollo) is an adaptation of the European Waltz brought to the Americas during colonial times by Spain. In the Viceroyalty of Peru, the Waltz was slowly changed to the likings of the Criollo people. After the independence of Peru, the dance became symbolic of that nations culture as it gained widespread popularity in the country. By that point, the introduction of more musical styles (including African and Andean influences) made it characteristic of the Peruvian music genre known as Música criolla. Even though the dance was at first mainly restricted to the social classes of high status, during the 1930s it further expanded in the Peruvian middle and lower class neighborhoods. In the 1940s, composer and guitarist Oscar Aviles created a unique sound that made the now called Vals Criollo and music more distinct from the European Waltz and other dances of South America such as the Tango. By the 1950s, popular composer and singer Chabuca Granda helped in making the music widely known throughout Latin America, and the name Vals Peruano in time became used to refer to the dance in countries outside of Peru. At the height of its national and international popularity, the sounds of the 1970s were introduced into the Vals Peruano by musicians and singers such as Lucha Reyes. In modern times, the Vals Peruano remains a widely popular symbol of Peruvian culture and still holds a certain degree of popularity in Latin American society.

[hbboogie1]

Steve I'm not an expert on orgins of vals but this sounds interesting

Vals Peruano (Waltz)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Vals (Peruvian))
The Vals Peruano (known in Peru as the Vals Criollo) is an adaptation of the European Waltz brought to the Americas during colonial times by Spain. In the Viceroyalty of Peru, the Waltz was slowly changed to the likings of the Criollo people. After the independence of Peru, the dance became symbolic of that nations culture as it gained widespread popularity in the country. By that point, the introduction of more musical styles (including African and Andean influences) made it characteristic of the Peruvian music genre known as Música criolla. Even though the dance was at first mainly restricted to the social classes of high status, during the 1930s it further expanded in the Peruvian middle and lower class neighborhoods. In the 1940s, composer and guitarist Oscar Aviles created a unique sound that made the now called Vals Criollo and music more distinct from the European Waltz and other dances of South America such as the Tango. By the 1950s, popular composer and singer Chabuca Granda helped in making the music widely known throughout Latin America, and the name Vals Peruano in time became used to refer to the dance in countries outside of Peru. At the height of its national and international popularity, the sounds of the 1970s were introduced into the Vals Peruano by musicians and singers such as Lucha Reyes. In modern times, the Vals Peruano remains a widely popular symbol of Peruvian culture and still holds a certain degree of popularity in Latin American society.

Steve check out you tube
Historia del Vals Peruano (5 de 5)
This is a tribute to Ojeda if you speak spanish it's helpful if not you will certainally recognize his music.

[Gssh]

Well, i did some more research, and now i am pretty sure that the video i posted was way later - i kept in my list of favourite videos mainly for the dancing. The bandoneon player is actually not eduardo arolas, but it is juan jose miguez who plays eduardo arolas in the 1951 movie "derecho viejo" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121197) a movie about eduardo arolas - so this is an example of what a 1951 argentine director thought was acceptable as a depiction of early social tango.

Oh well, that will teach me to post before doing proper research. I apologize for this misleading comment. It is still an interesting performance, but it offers no clue about early dancing whatsoever. Instead it is a 1950's recreation of early dance, and more part of the creation of the mythology of early tango than the history of early tango.

Sorry.

Gssh

[opendoor]

Well, i did some more research, ... the bandoneon player is actually not eduardo arolas, but it is juan jose miguez who plays eduardo arolas in the 1951 movie "derecho viejo"

Wow, thanks for clarification!! Always thought Arolas must have been starving, as haggard as he looks in that clip.


Steve check out you tube Historia del Vals Peruano (5 de 5) This is a tribute to Ojeda if you speak spanish it's helpful if not you will certainally recognize his music.

in this respect I posted the peruvian vals video, too: http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=32695

[Angel HI]

Vals Peruano (Waltz)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Vals (Peruvian))

The Vals Peruano (known in Peru as the Vals Criollo) is an adaptation of the European Waltz brought to the Americas during colonial times by Spain.This might be a misprint or misread, or perhaps I have incomplete info. I was in conversation with a friend from Peru who says that the vals from Peru was/is Vals Peruano. That it was adapted from the VW from Europe, and was danced with what actually resembles a country/western waltz today, but without so much travelling around the floor. The main movement was more side to side.

The Vals Criollo, very much like what we see today, was actually the argentine version of vals boston from the US (that should tick off some persons :rolleyes: ). Certainly there was vals before then, but it was danced differently.

[bastet]

Well, i did some more research, and now i am pretty sure that the video i posted was way later - i kept in my list of favourite videos mainly for the dancing. The bandoneon player is actually not eduardo arolas, but it is juan jose miguez who plays eduardo arolas in the 1951 movie "derecho viejo" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121197) a movie about eduardo arolas - so this is an example of what a 1951 argentine director thought was acceptable as a depiction of early social tango.

Oh well, that will teach me to post before doing proper research. I apologize for this misleading comment. It is still an interesting performance, but it offers no clue about early dancing whatsoever. Instead it is a 1950's recreation of early dance, and more part of the creation of the mythology of early tango than the history of early tango.

Sorry.

Gssh

I kind of thought something like that might have been the case...seeing as the background female dancers all had floor length attire (sort of pre- 1920 style) but the main female dancer was wearing something rather a bit racier (a skirt with a button up front exposed to the mid thigh).

That was some great researching!

[bordertangoman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrcTQV3ppnI

can anyone translate please?

i've never managed to get a copy of this film

but in this clip there's Pugliese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5F3YI-lJMM&feature=related

[bastet]

Well, i did some more research, and now i am pretty sure that the video i posted was way later - i kept in my list of favourite videos mainly for the dancing. The bandoneon player is actually not eduardo arolas, but it is juan jose miguez who plays eduardo arolas in the 1951 movie "derecho viejo" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121197) a movie about eduardo arolas - so this is an example of what a 1951 argentine director thought was acceptable as a depiction of early social tango.

Oh well, that will teach me to post before doing proper research. I apologize for this misleading comment. It is still an interesting performance, but it offers no clue about early dancing whatsoever. Instead it is a 1950's recreation of early dance, and more part of the creation of the mythology of early tango than the history of early tango.

Sorry.

Gssh

Just as an aside...I did a little more looking around and Ney Melo cites the performance dancers in the video as:

The dancers Lita y Jose Mendez from the argentine movie "Derecho viejo" (1951) about bandoneon player Eduardo Arolas who died at the age of 32.

[bastet]

the two video's that I have found that are earlier than 1940 are the one I posted yesterday from 1933 with El Cachafaz and Carmencita Calderon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yv9V-3APpc&feature=related

and possibly this one, year unknown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nrxyhpDHhE&feature=related

I can't remember havign found anything earlier than this.

[opendoor]

.. found anything earlier than this.

May be this one http://www.tangoevolution.com/popup_largerimage.cfm?id=83 posted by the Tango Evolution Club in Atlanta ?


BTW, what Cachafaz and Calderón are dancing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yv9V-3APpc), I would call Orillero style (Canyengue with figures and showy stuff). Whereas the people in the Melodias Porteñas vid were dancing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nrxyhpDHhE) something close to nowadays Milonguero style.

[opendoor]

And here some more Carmencita Calderón vids:

an interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhQOp9is5ik

kind of a lesson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z219e03AmWg

and her birthday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuLVZnEpg4E

Enjoy !

[Steve Pastor]

One thing led to another and ....

http://www.todotango.com/english/creadores/bsimarra.asp

competitor...wore gaucho gear including spurs...

Hmmm

[larrynla]

Christine Dennison's web site includes several books on antique tango. You can download them for a few pounds from her web site.

http://totaltango.com

I did this for her "Secrets of the Tango - 1914" which also requires you download a free viewer similar to the Acrobat Reader.

The dance described reminded me of the American tango, with cortes both forward and back, and to the side. The steps were fairly simple walking steps with a steady rhythm.

The music played in the mid-teens were similar to this example recorded in 1912.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRLJKaGReqA


Laer Carroll

[larrynla]

What Chachafaz and Calderon were doing in the 1933 film was a showy version of tango such as you might see on the stage. No one in polite society would do as Cachafaz does at about one minute: kick his partner's butt.

In the background you see people doing social dancing: simple, smooth steps, mostly molinetes (giros). This is true of all the (few) black-and-white movies I've seen from Argentina in the 30s and later.

In these movies you see what popular movie makers consider polite high-class dancers of the day would do in public, with an occasional fancy performance by a character shown as being amusing, but atypical.

The movies were telling stories and the dancing was incidental, but my guess is that what we're seeing is typical of tango in the Golden Age.


Laer Carroll

[jantango]

When I want to know something about tango, whether on an orchestra, singer, or lyrics, I go directly to TodoTango.com where I usually find what I'm searching for.

This site is a wealth of information and the labor of love of Ricardo Garcia Blaya. The English translations are excellent. The Chronicles include historical information that has been researched and connected with links for more details.

I came across this article http://www.todotango.com/english/biblioteca/cronicas/cronica_millon_de_tangos.asp#Tope about the number of tangos. Blaya teaches a course at the Academia Nactional del Tango and tirelessly investigates unrecorded and unpublished compositions.

[piimapoika]

I downloaded "Secrets of the Tango - 1914" at a cost of £7.99, together with the ebook viewer, but the viewer will not run. Christine Denniston's site says report problems directly to ebookpro, which I have done, but I would urge anyone thinking of buying this to hold fire until I can report what ebookpro said.

[opendoor]

The by far most detailed recent work on the origins of TA before 1920 is unfortunately still in German and so restricted to a smaller group of readers. I´m still crawling very slowly through the 440 pages.

It is a PHD thesis on Tango, and its for free on google-books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=R3PTbiFavPYC&printsec=toc&hl=de&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0

The book has a very amibitious view on the music theory. Jorgen Torp is the "Tango-Professor" of our town. Think you can mail him, if you have a question.

Jtorp@t-online.de
http://www.uni-hamburg.de/Musikwissenschaft/Torp.html

[totaltango support]

We are terribly sorry to hear that there has been been a problem. Recently the eBookPro software has become less reliable, and we are trying to solve the problem. We are very unhappy about the current situation.

There is an alternative version of the software which does not use the eBookPro reader and has been completely stable. We originally developed this version for people wanting to view the material on a computer without an internet connection who could not register automatically on line. You will find full instructions at
http://www.totaltango.com/download/solutionsecrets.html

Someone mentioned that the content reminded them of American Tango. American Tango was originally invented by Vernon and Irene Castle around this time, and was based on Tango steps they had picked up in Paris, so it should not be too surprising to find some resonances. There's more on this, and on how the name Tango came to be applied to so many different dances, in the book "The Meaning of Tango"
http://www.totaltango.com/acatalog/tango_the_meaning_of_tango_49.html

Thanks

Helena
totaltango.com support

[Steve Pastor]

The Vals Criollo, very much like what we see today, was actually the argentine version of vals boston from the US (that should tick off some persons :rolleyes: ). Certainly there was vals before then, but it was danced differently. Angel

Wow, finally found "this ole thread".

Not only the "Boston", but the Hesitation Waltz. I mentioned somewhere else that I have a dvd with dances from the teens of the 20th century. I've got more notes at home, but for now will just say that the rhythmic "freedom" in dancing "vals" at an AT milonga or practica sure looks like the "Freedom" or having canter rhythm (also called Duck Walk, but without the rising on the toes), and dancing a one step to waltz as seen in popular "ballroom dances" of the teens and twenties.

What we dance now as vals looks like elements, and even an approach to dancing, of several of these old time dances.
We know that some early tango music had a ragtime sound and feel ("Ragtime Tango", meaning... it isn't Argentine?)
An interesting question is, did the ballroom dances of the time influence "Argentine Tango", as did the music of the time?

BTW, tried to reserve a copy of the book by Denniston, and I won't be able to get to it for some time, so here is the first review I came across.
"great names of tango get, at best, perfunctory mention and the long and contentious history of the dance and the music (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-meaning-of-tango-by-christine-denniston-765129.html#) is glossed over. The great slabs of Golden Age propaganda are as dull as a sequence of badly done ochos."
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/the-meaning-of-tango-by-christine-denniston-765129.html

[totaltango support]

Of the many reviews of the book on line now, it seems a pity that the first one you found was the only negative one I've seen. I thought it was odd, and anyone interested in this thread may think so too, that the main criticism of a book on the history of a dance is that it spends too much time talking about the past. (I also wondered why so much of the review was taken up with a description of a lesson taught by someone who wasn't the author and claimed no connection with the author.)

My favourite review is on amazon, written by a couple who met dancing in Buenos Aires and have been married for more than 50 years - they call it a "must-read" book.

But I'll be really interested to know what you think about it when you've had a chance to read it.

Helena

[JohnEm]

My favourite review is on amazon, written by a couple who met dancing in Buenos Aires and have been married for more than 50 years - they call it a "must-read" book.

For clarification from the TotalTango website:
totaltango.com founder Christine Denniston (http://www.totaltango.com/acatalog/tango_christine_denniston_77.html) says,
"For me, dancing Tango has always been a joy.
One of the most striking experiences of my first trip to Buenos Aires,
many years ago, was seeing the look of joy on the faces
of the most experienced dancers there.

So you would want to choose the most favourable review!


But I'll be really interested to know what you think about it
when you've had a chance to read it.
Well I have it. And it is a bit of a mix.
I have no argument with the motivation and intent of the book.

After a bad teacher experience I was on the point of stopping Tango
but the thought of throwing all the learning away stopped me, just.
So in an effort to work out what the dance was really about I returned
to the little red book amongst other things.

I've just done that again and my copy falls open at Page 38
in a section called "The Attitude of Men to their Own Feet".
That became one of the clues.

I'm afraid though, at that time, I thought the teaching part
was all but useless with its rather unhelpful, difficult diagrams.

[totaltango support]

I apologise if I didn't make it clear that there's a connection! I'd assumed it was implied by my previous post, but of course, not everyone will have read that, so I should state it explicitly every time.

It's not so much that it's my favourite review because it's the "most favourable" - there have been a lot of very favourable reviews. It's that the purpose of the book was to record the experience of the dancers who learned to dance in Buenos Aires during the Golden Age, so when people of that generation who have never met the author say the book accurately represents their own experience of dancing Tango in Buenos Aires at that time, that's kind of special.

Though, of course, not everyone thinks that the experience of people who danced Tango in Buenos Aires in the Golden Age is in any way relevant to how they dance Tango today - and this book clearly isn't for those that don't.

I'm glad that you found a useful clue that helped your own dancing in the book. That has to be a good thing, right?

Helena

[JohnEm]

I apologise if I didn't make it clear that there's a connection!
I'd assumed it was implied by my previous post, but of course, not everyone
will have read that, so I should state it explicitly every time.
. . . . . . . . .

Though, of course, not everyone thinks that the experience of people
who danced Tango in Buenos Aires in the Golden Age is in any way relevant
to how they dance Tango today - and this book clearly isn't for those that don't.
I almost wish you hadn't said that. If more people did read the little red book
then perhaps more people would find their own tango by forgetting
the steps and concentrating on movement within the embrace.


I'm glad that you found a useful clue that helped your own dancing
in the book. That has to be a good thing, right?
Absolutely it is. And there are other good things too.
But mixed up in it are the not so good as well.

I just think that other more meaningful information could have
been included instead of some rather awkward teaching.

Would I recommend anyone learning Tango buying it - yes of course.
Especially at the remarkably cheap price it is on sale at Amazon now,
not that it was expensive in the first place.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meaning-Tango-Story-Argentinian-Dance/dp/1906032165/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284125354&sr=1-1

[totaltango support]

I'm glad you feel it's a book you can recommend.

Since I have a connection :-) , can I just say that there isn't any part of the book that was intended by the author to be seen as a lesson, so I find it very interesting (and will pass on) that you are reading the Technique section (I assume it's that bit) that way.

That section was meant to be an explanation of why Golden Age dancers made certain technical choices and how those fitted in with their overall philosophy, rather than as an instruction manual. In a world where it seems no two dancers can agree on how or even whether the cross is led and followed, it was intended to be a point of reference to help facilitate the debate in the future as the Tango evolves and changes.

It may be that a further clarification needs to be added if there's ever a second edition!

(I gather it's coming out in Greek translation very soon - maybe they can add something!)

Helena

[v22TTC]

Would I recommend anyone learning Tango buying it - yes of course.
Especially at the remarkably cheap price it is on sale at Amazon now,
not that it was expensive in the first place.


Sold!:D If for no other reason than that I'm greatly intrigued by "The Attitude of Men to their Own Feet".

I've also found it best to take a completely inverted view of anything the mainstream media says: if the Independent says it's cack, then it's most likely pretty good....:roll:

[UKDancer]

I think I paid about £8 for my copy. It's very interesting but printed on very grotty paper so the illustrations don't reproduce well. What does anyone make of David Turner's A Passion for Tango? These are the two books I keep going back to.

[totaltango support]

The first printing was on grotty paper (the publishers thought it looked historical, but it was just a bad choice), but the second printing, which was done last summer, is on much better, whiter paper, so you should be fine if you get it now.

Helena

[UKDancer]

I looked again on amazon and it's under £7, which can include delivery if you don't mind waiting a few days (UK only, obviously). That's tremendous value, and I would say every tango dancer should read it, whether or not they agree with the writer's approach to the dance.

[Angel HI]

Haven't had the chance to welcome TTS and UK Dancer to the forums. Bienvenue a tous.