Men dancing with men

[Chiron]

But I have to say that a lot of the guys around here like a good lead now and then :-)
I think it's a bit of machismo, actually... `This following thing isn't so hard - I can do it just as well as the girls!'

Yeah right ;-)

There seems to be a bit of conversation about this in another thread so I thought I would break it off into a new thread.

How many of the guys here have danced with other guys?
For the women... what do think when you see two guys dancing together?

As for me I'll admit I like a good lead now and then. I'll admit there is some machismo in showing I can follow ;). I've danced standard and latin with some of the male pros at the studio. When I've danced latin the charactistic of the dance changes some, flirting is gone and it is more competitive (sort of like when you are wrestling with your brother) and everything also becomes a lot harder and sharper.

[etp777]

I've done it with pros at studio with some regularity in classes/lessons, but never at a party or anywhere else.

[anp73ga31]

We encourage/prod the guys to do it at our USA Dance parties. The girls dance swing together and hustle, and wooh and I do a mean VW together, so we always send wooh's husband to try to see who will dance with him. Some of the guys will run from him, but quite a few step up to the plate and have produced lots of laughter and tons of applause from others watching. We love it because to us it shows how confident a guy is in his manliness to be able to dance with another man without feeling self concious. We've had some who have even put on quite the show, and of course got resounding applause from those watching! Great fun to loosen everyone up!

[Phil Owl]

We encourage/prod the guys to do it at our USA Dance parties. The girls dance swing together and hustle, and wooh and I do a mean VW together, so we always send wooh's husband to try to see who will dance with him. Some of the guys will run from him, but quite a few step up to the plate and have produced lots of laughter and tons of applause from others watching. We love it because to us it shows how confident a guy is in his manliness to be able to dance with another man without feeling self concious. We've had some who have even put on quite the show, and of course got resounding applause from those watching! Great fun to loosen everyone up!

Even though I have NEVER been able to get myself to do this (just how I'm wired I guess), I do find it oddly entertaining. You and wooh also do a mean VW alright, especially to that song from "Harry Potter"! :mrgreen:

Wooh's husband just cracks me up something fierce, especially when he does that slide like Kramer on Seinfeld! Did he study episodes of "Seinfeld" for days or weeks straight? He does that so well! :rocker::cheers:

[anp73ga31]

Wooh's husband just cracks me up something fierce, especially when he does that slide like Kramer on Seinfeld! Did he study episodes of "Seinfeld" for days or weeks straight? He does that so well! :rocker::cheers:

I dont know where he got it from, but it's become his signature move now so that even when he doesnt do it, he gets requests for him to do it. ha ha! :D

[fascination]

We encourage/prod the guys to do it at our USA Dance parties. The girls dance swing together and hustle, and wooh and I do a mean VW together, so we always send wooh's husband to try to see who will dance with him. Some of the guys will run from him, but quite a few step up to the plate and have produced lots of laughter and tons of applause from others watching. We love it because to us it shows how confident a guy is in his manliness to be able to dance with another man without feeling self concious. We've had some who have even put on quite the show, and of course got resounding applause from those watching! Great fun to loosen everyone up!my fenale BFF and another girlfriend of hers do a mean bachata together...it's all good

[Phil Owl]

I dont know where he got it from, but it's become his signature move now so that even when he doesnt do it, he gets requests for him to do it. ha ha! :D

Who knows, he just might spark a new dance craze yet :uplaugh:

[_malakawa_]

slavik is dancing with a men here in the studio when he is teaching. I am also dancing with a woman. That is normal when you are a teacher.

i don't have nothing against gay people, actually i have a lots of gay friends, and I love to go shopping with them. :p (while my BF is driving me crazy when we are going shopping).

But when it comes to ballroom dancing, i don't like the combination of same sex. It is a little bit strange to see 2 guys dancing Intl. Rumba.

[davedove]

I have danced with another man in class, but it was because he was learning to follow in preparation for becoming an instructor.

He did tell me I had strong leads.;)

[swan]

Well, this ought to go to the Video portion. But former World & Blackpool Champion (Augusto Schiavo) & Blackpool Finalist (Massimo Giorgianni) certainly have brought Man Dancing with Man to new Heights ! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqhsrM0CjsU

[samina]

It's big in the NY/NJ hustle scene. And most pros I've spoken with say they love to follow. My old BF, a hustle dancer, did. Was fun to watch him in that role.

And then there's one of my few regrets in life, the evening I missed Baricchi and Giampiero dance standard together in a lengthy workshop demonstration. Dear me...that wouldve been something!

Anyway, I see men dancing with men all the time in studios. Would be fun to see more of it in socials!

[DanceMentor]

I was dancing with a man during a lesson with a couple I teach, and one of the other instructors said:
"You two look so nice together"
And I said:
"Yea, we are working on our wedding dance", and everybody laughed. :)

When I am working with a couple, I try not to dance with either of them two much. I prefer to have them dance mostly together, as this is how they practice. Mainly, I just do this to help get the feeling in the body for a step.

[swan]

My friend's husband/dance partner, who's about my built & height, once tried dancing V. Waltz with my partner. My friend & I took a look & told them that if they ever want to pocket a World title, they'd be better off with each other than with us! That was one V. Waltz done the right way! Powerful, no overshaping & just flowed. WOW!

[tanya_the_dancer]

For the women... what do think when you see two guys dancing together?


Is there a shortage of girls in their area???

[samina]

My friend's husband/dance partner, who's about my built & height, once tried dancing V. Waltz with my partner. My friend & I took a look & told them that if they ever want to pocket a World title, they'd be better off with each other than with us! That was one V. Waltz done the right way! Powerful, no overshaping & just flowed. WOW!

Wow indeed. I would love to dance as prettily as either one of my instructors... :)

[cornutt]

I've done it, but I always find it awkward. Has nothing to do with any sexual connotation -- I just don't like the way that men move. :D If I'm going to follow, I'd much rather reverse roles with a woman.

[elisedance]

I've done it, but I always find it awkward. Has nothing to do with any sexual connotation -- I just don't like the way that men move. :D If I'm going to follow, I'd much rather reverse roles with a woman.

I am so coming to Alabama one day... :)

[kayak]

Outside of class situations, I have no interest in dancing with a guy. Plus, there are always more ladies than guys at dances. So they would shoot both guys because that leaves two ladies sitting out :)

[waltzguy]

Outside of class situations, I have no interest in dancing with a guy. Plus, there are always more ladies than guys at dances. So they would shoot both guys because that leaves two ladies sitting out :)

So what's the best way to overcome this problem and still be a male follower?

Get the lady to lead, and the man to follow. I have done this before at a social. I have never danced man-man at a social.

[White Chacha]

... If I'm going to follow, I'd much rather reverse roles with a woman.

Done that too. I know a couple of strong lady leaders :-)

And Swan, thanks much for the Massimo/Augusto clip. That was great!

[suburbaknght]

I'm of the firm belief that all men should practice following and all women should practice leading. Nothing makes you more aware of your partner than stepping into his or her role.

That said, I do enjoy following on occasion - usually smooth more than rhythm - and I may be doing same sex competition before regular competition due to delay in reinstating my amateur status (same sex comps don't always draw a distinction).

[Gorme]

So what's the best way to overcome this problem and still be a male follower?

Get the lady to lead, and the man to follow. I have done this before at a social. I have never danced man-man at a social.

Around here, the only dance a man-man situation would work on without incurring female wrath is V.Waltz. There's an shortage of women who can do that dance. So the remaining guys either dance it alone or with each other.

[fascination]

my favorite...hands down...I simply adore VW

[Peaches]

I've seen it a few times.

One teacher I know will often dance WCS as a follow, usually with a particular student (with whom he's good friends) who gets very embarrassed to be dancing with another guy. The teacher hams it up, and it's just hilarious to watch.

I've seen it a few times with AT. Open embrace. It started out as a joke--it was one guy's birthday dance, and another male teacher joined the rotation...and kept it. It was fascinating to watch, because it completely changed the look of the dance. I wish I'd gotten it on video, because it was beautiful. I found the same thing other times, as well--the character of the dance just becomes very different, very powerful somehow.

As for girls & girls--I've danced close embrace AT with a woman before. Several times throughout the particular evening, since there was a shortage of leaders, and she was good. Aside from the technical difficulties of boobs being in the way (she was rather well-endowed) which dampens the feel of the lead, it was great. I found her to be an inordinately considerate leader. I could feel her understanding of what I needed as a follower, and it was awesome. I'd jump at the chance to follow a woman again.

[dancepro]

There seems to be a bit of conversation about this in another thread so I thought I would break it off into a new thread.

How many of the guys here have danced with other guys?
For the women... what do think when you see two guys dancing together?

As for me I'll admit I like a good lead now and then. I'll admit there is some machismo in showing I can follow ;). I've danced standard and latin with some of the male pros at the studio. When I've danced latin the charactistic of the dance changes some, flirting is gone and it is more competitive (sort of like when you are wrestling with your brother) and everything also becomes a lot harder and sharper.

I actually teach a couple (man/man). They each counldn't find a partner that was willing to practice as much and as hard as they wanted. They both looked for partners for a about six month and finally decided to dance together. They are going to some big competitions in Europe. One of the competitions was in Denmark and the other was in either Holland or Germany. I do think one of the competitions was the World Championship and the other was Guy Olympics.

How do I feel about teaching them? Not a problem. To me the important thing is, they want to dance and they are eager to learn, two of the most important things for dancers. I just had get used to use the terms initiator and responder again as I have not used those terms like that since moving to the US.

Dancepro

[dbk]

I think it would be ABnormal at one of our social dances for guys not to dance together at least one or two times. I guess that's just how my team rolls... most of our guys are pretty darn secure. :)

[elisedance]

my favorite...hands down...I simply adore VW

[F: I think a trip to San Jose may be in order :roll:]

[fascination]

as fast as I can driver there ;)

[elisedance]

I actually teach a couple (man/man). They each counldn't find a partner that was willing to practice as much and as hard as they wanted. They both looked for partners for a about six month and finally decided to dance together. They are going to some big competitions in Europe. One of the competitions was in Denmark and the other was in either Holland or Germany. I do think one of the competitions was the World Championship and the other was Guy Olympics.

How do I feel about teaching them? Not a problem. To me the important thing is, they want to dance and they are eager to learn, two of the most important things for dancers. I just had get used to use the terms initiator and responder again as I have not used those terms like that since moving to the US.

Dancepro


Do they alternate lead/follow or has one switched?

[nucat78]

I have danced a few steps with my studio owner in classes. He wanted the guys to see what a particular lead should feel like. Didn't bother me and I really was curious to see what kind of lead he is, but I doubt I'd dance at a social with another guy.

I'm told, and I have no idea if this is accurate, that Argentine tango was originally danced by men together and it was a macho thing sort of like an upright wrestling match and to see who had the best moves.

[elisedance]

The version I heard was that they learned it with each other in order to dance with the brothel women - women being rather scarce at that time. I tried to check this out but I don't think anyone really knows....

[tanya_the_dancer]

I think it would be ABnormal at one of our social dances for guys not to dance together at least one or two times. I guess that's just how my team rolls... most of our guys are pretty darn secure. :)

Dancing guys are in such short supply here that it would look strange (like why are they doing it when there are so many available girls). This year the university team even had girl-girl showcase, and there is apparent shortage of new guys (there's a bunch of guys who were part of the ballroom club for at least a year or more, and there is a bunch of new girls, but no new guys from the looks of it).

[Peaches]

The version I heard was that they learned it with each other in order to dance with the brothel women - women being rather scarce at that time. I tried to check this out but I don't think anyone really knows....

I'm told, and I have no idea if this is accurate, that Argentine tango was originally danced by men together and it was a macho thing sort of like an upright wrestling match and to see who had the best moves.I've heard varying stories about the origins. The story which seemed to have gotten the most credence, based on the reactions of the other Argentines in the room, does, indeed involve women in brothels and men dancing with men...but not in the either of these ways. It's an interesting story (and who knows if it's true), but it's completely OT. (And, since it's me, it would be long in the telling.)

[dancepro]

Do they alternate lead/follow or has one switched?

Part of the criteria (in the Worlds and the Olympics) is that they should shift between who is the initiator and who is the responder. So yes, they have to understand the difference between the yin energy and the yang energy. They tend to get very good at understanding the difference after a few lessons.

Dancepro

[Gorme]

[F: I think a trip to San Jose may be in order :roll:]

BOT...but this city made yahoo news of most men to women imbalance ratio of 17% more men to women. Now carry that over to the ballroom dance scene.

[elisedance]

BOT...but this city made yahoo news of most men to women imbalance ratio of 17% more men to women. Now carry that over to the ballroom dance scene.

Before we move we need one more number - the fraction of men in same sex ballroom ... ;)

[kayak]

So what's the best way to overcome this problem and still be a male follower?

Get the lady to lead, and the man to follow. I have done this before at a social. I have never danced man-man at a social.

I guess my answer would be why would you want to? Is the goal to be a better leader because you can follow kind of like dance practice or to really dance the ladies part?

As a guy, the challenge of dancing with a lady leader is mass. If we are thinking about leading with our centers, ladies naturally move out of the way to avoid getting run over. As a guy follower, I can just stand there and let her run into me. So it is truly by option that I move the way my roll as a follower says I should.

[kayak]

I think it would be ABnormal at one of our social dances for guys not to dance together at least one or two times. I guess that's just how my team rolls... most of our guys are pretty darn secure. :)

Even if you are secure from any homophobia, how does your group avoid the competitive nature of being guys? Most guys I know really want to be better than the other guy. They also want to be the team captain.

Wrestling is an example of guys being secure that being near another man will not suddenly make them gay. Still, there are very few guys who are happy getting pushed around and pinned.

[Stagekat]

I really enjoy seeing two guys dancing... or two gals... well I enjoy anything that is considered out of the "norm"... I've always told my pro he makes a prettier follow than I do. :-)

I'll have to see if I can find it... there is a you tube video I saw of a same-gender salsa competition... I think it was held in Las Vegas... but it was really cool! I happened across it by accident... must go look....

[waltzguy]

Where I am, male-male dancing at a social is never seen.

[fascination]

and rare here as well... when it does occur there is much bravado and the like

[waltzguy]

Around here, the only dance a man-man situation would work on without incurring female wrath is V.Waltz. There's an shortage of women who can do that dance. So the remaining guys either dance it alone or with each other.

I presume this is because of the symmetrical nature of the VW. Well, that is, until you do the check between flecks.

[kayak]

Where I am, male-male dancing at a social is never seen.

Yea, it never happens where I am at except as a silly caricature dance. I don't see that changing anytime soon around here.

[drejenpha]

The best feedback I get from people at my level is when I lead another man. Some problems just aren't as evident to your follow as they are to another lead when dancing with them.

We always have same-sex dances when we hold social events, everyone has fun doing something different. It's pretty much constantly have people working on same-sex choreography so that they can do well in fun dances at competitions. Some of us at Penn State are just big on fun dances, be they same sex, 3 person, or otherwise, to the extent that we'll take normal fun dances and make them into same-sex or 3ways. Will have to try Vwaltz with one of the guys I dance with at some point.

[dbk]

Even if you are secure from any homophobia, how does your group avoid the competitive nature of being guys? Most guys I know really want to be better than the other guy. They also want to be the team captain.

Wrestling is an example of guys being secure that being near another man will not suddenly make them gay. Still, there are very few guys who are happy getting pushed around and pinned.

Like I said, they're most of them secure... not just from fearing homosexuality, but from fearing other guys. At least for the most part, obviously. I'm not surrounded by a bunch of angels or anything :) They just tend not to be the whole "aggressive" type.

No one on our team (to my knowledge) thinks that dance partners are fighting each other for control, so there's no reason a male-male couple should fight for control when a male-female couple doesn't. Honestly, to me, if I guy thinks being led by a man means being dominated by him... doesn't that mean he thinks he's dominating a woman when he leads her?

[Hank]

I often dance with other men because of the shortage of women where I dance. I follow all the dances that I lead and find following relaxing and fun. I know several men who also follow, and we don't have any hangups about dancing with other men, so when there aren't enough women, we dance with each other. We usually switch who is following half-way thru a song because everybody wants to follow.

Men have more mass and muscle, so they move with more momentum and match my energy in a way that a woman can't. I enjoy it in the same way that I enjoy playing team sports with men, such as basketball and football. I get a feeling of vitality and power that comes from working as a team with men in a physical activity.

Some people think that watching us men dance is funny while others think it's stupid, none of which bothers me enough to stop.

[kayak]

No one on our team (to my knowledge) thinks that dance partners are fighting each other for control, so there's no reason a male-male couple should fight for control when a male-female couple doesn't. Honestly, to me, if I guy thinks being led by a man means being dominated by him... doesn't that mean he thinks he's dominating a woman when he leads her?

I am not sure, but I don't think it is a matter of being insecure? It seems like a natural selection issue to me? A guy isn't competing with a girl, he is usually competing for her. So he has to demonstrate strength and success over the other guys in a way he doesn't with a female partner. Women trend towards the guy who is better.

[elisedance]

No one on our team (to my knowledge) thinks that dance partners are fighting each other for control, so there's no reason a male-male couple should fight for control when a male-female couple doesn't. Honestly, to me, if I guy thinks being led by a man means being dominated by him... doesn't that mean he thinks he's dominating a woman when he leads her?

I agree with Kayak - men and women posture and compete with each other for primacy - but that does not mean they use the same behaviour to each other, far from it. When you get down to it we are not that different from apes (see Van lawick goodall classic:in the shaddow of man) or lions. Put two guys together with or without women present and they establish a pecking order. Of course that does not necessarily mean the women will pick the prime one, though they may well feel more attracted to him.

[dbk]

Personally, I don't think this is "instict" in humans, but learned socially. I've come to that conclusion from countless sociology classes that review both sides of the argument.

But whether that is true or not (and I'd really rather not debate it here), most of the guys on my team don't do it, at least not physically. That's... about all there is to it.

[fascination]

not sure which thing you are specifically referring to, but if it is orientation, you are correct, we won't be debating it here

[elisedance]

They don't? Thats interesting - so you treat each other as total equals?

I was wondering if my views are age-dependent. When I was a teenager we hung out generally with one friend. My son's teenage years they got together in quite large groups - 20 or so piled into one room. Maybe this affects how people interact for a lifetime and things have changed! Goodness, we've evolved from apes to pre-humans!

[danceronice]

It's not age-dependent. Whether people acknoweldge it or not, there is always a heirarchy. And it really IS amusingly similar to behavior in primate troops. (Honestly, someday I'm writing a paper on studio interaction in the style of Goodall. It would TOTALLY work.)

*anthropologist hat off*

[Angel HI]

Personally, I don't think this is "instict" in humans, but learned socially. I've come to that conclusion from countless sociology classes that review both sides of the argument.

But whether that is true or not (and I'd really rather not debate it here), most of the guys on my team don't do it, at least not physically. That's... about all there is to it.
not sure which thing you are specifically referring to, but if it is orientation, you are correct, we won't be debating it here
No, Fasc. What he is referring to is whether or not the sense of not displaying/sharing closeness/intimacy is inherent or sociological (learned). And, I agree that it is learned.

There is no real wrong w/ dancing w/ a man, and it is seen often. Socially, save for the situations/circumstances posted in this thread, this is simply inappropriate (even for females). It is just not the thing to do to leave guys/ladies, respectively, sitting when unnecessary.

[elisedance]

There is no real wrong w/ dancing w/ a man, and it is seen often.

Glad to hear that - I do it often, did it for 3hrs last night :p:p
(I know, that was an unfair quote - just couldn't resist....:car:)

[fascination]

thanks angel I just wasn't clear b/c it seemed like no big deal to have any other debate on issues near to the topic...so I was a bit mystified as to why any other surrounding issue couldn't be discussed...must have been a long day

[kayak]

Personally, I don't think this is "instict" in humans, but learned socially. I've come to that conclusion from countless sociology classes that review both sides of the argument.

But whether that is true or not (and I'd really rather not debate it here), most of the guys on my team don't do it, at least not physically. That's... about all there is to it.

Cool, I wasn't trying to start a sociology discussion. I was just responding to your question about whether guys are out to dominate their female partner.

Enjoy your team time. My experience is your situation is pretty unique although there are certainly efforts going to change society.

The Swing Dance Council has been having all kinds of trials and tribulations with reversed rolls in comps that are worth reading.

[elisedance]

Once you get serious about learning ballroom, reversed role dancing with coaches is simply required reading unless you want to pay for two at each lesson (which is how one top teaching couple do it here).

[LCbaseball22]

I've wondered about this myself. Would love to have a space to dance in my house and it's an old house with hardwood floors but unfortunately in no shape for dancing. We're talking nails sticking up, loose floorboards, etc :lol:

We do have limited space in our kitchen which has linoleum flooring and that works pretty well for fairly stationary dances such as Swing and Salsa...but that's about it. I'm actually going to start teaching a friend of mine to dance tomorrow. Unfortunately not the girl I've mentioned before...she says she'd love to learn but hasn't made much effort to accomodate when we can meet, so I'm teaching one of my male friends now, lol. And I guess we'll just use our kitchen since I'm going to start him off with East Coast Swing.

On that note, I don't mean to hijack the thread but what are your guys thoughts on men dancing together?

Our instructor actually says trying to follow another man's lead gives you a better sense for leading since you've put yourself in the girl's shoes and will have realized what does and doesn't work very well or whatever.

Well here's why I ask. I was going to suggest to this friend that I teach him to dance and I could be his practice partner until he has the confidence to actually go to a dance. I'd get the benefit of learning to follow, which would give me a better sense for leading and also improve my ability to teach girls. (and a lot of girls have asked me to but it's hard when you don't know the ladies footwork very well) However, if we tried to go some place more public (say when we get to the traveling dances) what is the social perception of two guys dancing together...that it's gay, right?

[Bailamosdance]

However, if we tried to go some place more public (say when we get to the traveling dances) what is the social perception of two guys dancing together...that it's gay, right?

Only to homophobes. To everyone else who has evolved as adults, it is called dancing. Folks who are judgemental or racist, homophobic or other, do not belong in today's world, and most of all do not belong in the beautiful artform we call dance.

[LCbaseball22]

Only to homophobes. To everyone else who has evolved as adults, it is called dancing. Folks who are judgemental or racist, homophobic or other, do not belong in today's world, and most of all do not belong in the beautiful artform we call dance.

Right, but how often do you see two guys dancing together? I just don't think it's very socially accepted. Note that I don't have a problem with it myself...I'm just a bit concerned what others might think if we went to say an athletic club and danced together in the gym.

[Bailamosdance]

Right, but how often do you see two guys dancing together? I just don't think it's very socially accepted. Note that I don't have a problem with it myself...I'm just a bit concerned what others might think if we went to say an athletic club and danced together in the gym.

Well, you cannot police what others think, and you can not run your life based on what others think. Sorry to be so spiritual on you LOL but what people think comes from THEIR lifestyles and hang ups. They shouldn't determine what you do or think!

Are you in a flyover state? Then yes you may not see folks dancing together... you should for sure be the first - and defend it, to your not so evolved friends...

[danceronice]

I think it's less socially acceptable in dance venues because there are usually fewer men than women and unless you also have a corresponding population of women who can lead, it's just cutting two female follows out. There's usually no social NEED for two men to dance together because of absence of partners at a party or a club situation. I wouldn't suggest doing it unless the other male was terrified to dance with anyone else or if you were actually involved, because otherwise it just ends up leaving follows sitting.

As for practicing, no one would raise an eyebrow if it were two women (as male practice partners are hard to come by) or if it were a man taking a lesson from a male teacher.

[fascination]

Only to homophobes. To everyone else who has evolved as adults, it is called dancing. Folks who are judgemental or racist, homophobic or other, do not belong in today's world, and most of all do not belong in the beautiful artform we call dance.
if we want to explore this further we can start a new thread on it...however, I will say that that perspective is a luxury that people in "fly-over" states don't have...because the vast heartland is not at all in agreement about what "today's world" should look like....

[fascination]

so ...let's keep this thread about flooring ...and take the worthy topic of two dudes dancing elsewhere

[freeageless]

so ...let's keep this thread about flooring ...and take the worthy topic of two dudes dancing elsewhere

Fascination, I completely agree. Those who want to talk about two men dancing together need to start their own thread-not hijack the OP's thread.

[QMSF]

No one ever asks me, which is a shame as I'm a darn good follower...

[LCbaseball22]

What is a "fly-over" state? I live in the Inland Northwest, if that helps.

Note that this would only be for practice, until he gets confident enough to dance with ladies. He doesn't have the same luxury as me of taking a University dance class and practicing with girls as you learn...so I thought I'd be his dance partner while he's learning and at the same time I'd get the benefit that come from a guy experiencing the follower's perspective. I've been to group lessons before where there weren't enough ladies so the male instructor filled in, so it's nothing new...I just don't know what people would think about 2 young men dancing together if I was to try to teach him someplace out in public. I mean neither of us looks old enough to be an actual dance instructor, so I'm guessing they'd just think we're two gay guys dancing together and I don't want them getting that impression...or heaven forbid we are seen by someone we know.

[Casayoto]

To answer your question from before, if I saw two guys dancing with each other exclusively at a social, yes, I would probably assume they were gay. Now the question of how you feel about that, and whether that's an appearance you're comfortable with is up to you. If you're uncomfortable with people making an incorrect assumption about you, that doesn't necessarily make you a homophobe.

[Bailamosdance]

To answer your question from before, if I saw two guys dancing with each other exclusively at a social, yes, I would probably assume they were gay. Now the question of how you feel about that, and whether that's an appearance you're comfortable with is up to you. If you're uncomfortable with people making an incorrect assumption about you, that doesn't necessarily make you a homophobe.

Taking that to the next level, I guess we need to assume that everyone who dances together exclusively must be a couple, or sexually involved.

NOT!!

[LCbaseball22]

Taking that to the next level, I guess we need to assume that everyone who dances together exclusively must be a couple, or sexually involved.

NOT!!

Yes, not the case...unfortunately. I danced with a female friend (who I have the hots for btw) at a club all night this last weekend, but later found out she already has a boyfriend. One who doesn't dance I might add. She needs to ditch him and find someone more fun and considerate of her love for dancing, like me :p You know that is something I just don't get. She is not the first girl I have known who loves to dance but has a lame bf who absolutely refuses to. Now granted it's a bit hypocritical of me to say this since for the longest time I wanted nothing to do with dancing myself, but if you ask me, if you love someone you'd be willing to do anything for them...

[ajiboyet]

Fascination, I completely agree. Those who want to talk about two men dancing together need to start their own thread-not hijack the OP's thread.

I thought this thread was about men dancing together. Interesting thread, BTW...

[fascination]

this thread is...that post was moved from another thread

[LCbaseball22]

Sorry, I get off on tangents...it related to what the person before me was saying.

[fascination]

please try to stay on the topic on hand or start a new thread...it is a nightmare for the staff when the content of a thread has nothing to do with the thread...thanks

[ajiboyet]

I've never followed a guy. I'd like to try it out sometime...

[Benjy]

To answer your question from before, if I saw two guys dancing with each other exclusively at a social, yes, I would probably assume they were gay. Now the question of how you feel about that, and whether that's an appearance you're comfortable with is up to you. If you're uncomfortable with people making an incorrect assumption about you, that doesn't necessarily make you a homophobe.


I agree. Not that it's fair... I dance exclusively with girls at socials, and then equivalent assumption about me doesn't hold true, so it's not a particularly just system, but it's what you'd expect when 95% of people are one way and 5% are another... the vast majority is considered the default.

Anyway, I think it is extremely important in the development of a high level dancer to understand the opposite part. It's more important for guys to follow than girls to lead, in my opinion, and almost universally guys at the championship level can follow and usually dance the girl's part to some degree... whereas many of our girls cannot do our parts. My partner can lead. I made her learn :P

[danceronice]

To answer the one question: "fly-over country" is a term (it can be derrogatory, as I sense it was used in this context, or not) for...the overwhelming majority of the continental United States. And culturally speaking most of the Deep South, some of upstate New York, really belongs in the category, too, while Chicago, for whatever it's worth, doesn't--it's the places people "fly over" going from NY to the West Coast (ie California.) The allegedly more "sophisticated" places, while the 'flyover states' are where all those backwards rubes who can't handle two men dancing live, apparently. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic.)

I would like to learn to lead. I don't think I'd like to social dance with other women, though but it would be fun to try leading a guy.

[LCbaseball22]

I would like to learn to lead. I don't think I'd like to social dance with other women, though but it would be fun to try leading a guy.

For whatever reason the friend I danced with at the club was really into this, kept trying to take over the leading...having me do turns and stuff, lol.

Technically I've never followed another guy's lead other then the occasional "here let me show you why this doesn't work so well for the girl" sort of thing and I stumbled through the ladies steps as they were trying to demonstrate. As I mentioned before I have danced with male instructors before though. Depending whether or not we can get the house to ourselves today I may have my first true experience trying to follow...kinda anxious, lol.

[ViviDancer]

Well I'd think it'd be weird for two guys to be dancing together, especially if it was standard. However, saying that, I do enjoy being the follower, both in standard and latin, partly to show that I can do it, and partly because to get a fuller understanding of a certain figure, you have to understand both the male and female steps.

So occasionally, I do change roles with my partner and we just have fun and learn at the same time. But guy-guy? Haha don't think I'll try it anytime soon xP

[Bailamosdance]

I'd like to point out that to truly understand partner dance you must do both parts - in fact to become a certified teacher, you HAVE to. Just sayin'...

[Bailamosdance]

Well I'd think it'd be weird for two guys to be dancing together, especially if it was standard. However, saying that, I do enjoy being the follower, both in standard and latin, partly to show that I can do it, and partly because to get a fuller understanding of a certain figure, you have to understand both the male and female steps.

So occasionally, I do change roles with my partner and we just have fun and learn at the same time. But guy-guy? Haha don't think I'll try it anytime soon xP

How does your teacher teach you, then?

[LCbaseball22]

I'd like to point out that to truly understand partner dance you must do both parts - in fact to become a certified teacher, you HAVE to. Just sayin'...

Oh, really? :) So do wannabe male instructors learn following by dancing with male instructors or do they swap roles with a woman?

[UKDancer]

Oh, really? :) So do wannabe male instructors learn following by dancing with male instructors or do they swap roles with a woman?

Both, probably. It certainly never bothered me, why would it?

[Bailamosdance]

Oh, really? :) So do wannabe male instructors learn following by dancing with male instructors or do they swap roles with a woman?

yes of course.

[pinkstuff]

Oh, really? :) So do wannabe male instructors learn following by dancing with male instructors or do they swap roles with a woman?

Male with male. Frequently seen at my studio.

Not sure what the issue is. Having recently seen two high-level male dancers do standard together - they looked fab together & if I, as a follow, could achieve that level of grace & elegance in standard, I would be very happy :D Same-sex dancing is interesting & I think there are different challenges - I watched a competition recently & there was lots of lead-follow swaps during choreography so clearly both partners had a good understanding of both roles. Made for interesting (& challenging!) watching.

[danceronice]

People who become really good teachers take from teachers of both sexes. Most of their students will be the opposite role (leads usually teach follows and vice-versa in private lessons) so they really need to know where the student's coming from.

[dlliba10]

How many of the guys here have danced with other guys?
... When I've danced latin the charactistic of the dance changes some, flirting is gone and it is more competitive (sort of like when you are wrestling with your brother) and everything also becomes a lot harder and sharper.

To return to OP's original question, I have no shame in admitting I like following a guy almost as much as (if not as much as) leading a girl. After following something, it makes it so much easier for me to figure out how to lead it. Getting both sides of the picture is crucial to becoming a better dancer. Plus, follows get to do all the fun stuff. It's really unfair sometimes. I love the chicken walks in swing ...

At socials, a few male friends from my team and I make it a point to dance together in varying combinations, no matter what dance or style, 1) because of the benefits above and 2) because it's just so much fun to hang out with each other and entertain ourselves (and, most often, those watching us). Then again, our team always does notoriously well at fun dance same-sex rumbas at collegiate comps, so perhaps we're just automatically conditioned ...

[wooh]

I love the chicken walks in swing ...


If we ever dance together, when it comes to chicken walks, I'll happily trade roles with ya... :p

[piimapoika]

Here is a clip of two alpha males dancing together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiX0bSspyQs

[famfam]

I'm a male, and at socials I've followed before, simply because I think it's fun, most people I know just think I'm a surprisingly good follow, and as far as I know no one has really cared much otherwise. I'd follow a guy or a girl, but guys are just better at it :) although I have followed both

[ajiboyet]

FWIW There's a video of Kryklyvyy and Killick dancing together in the videos section. There wasn't any clear cut leading and following though. Cha cha and paso doble.

[dlliba10]

If we ever dance together, when it comes to chicken walks, I'll happily trade roles with ya... :p

It's a deal! :D

[bclure]

Ok, a little selfish here.. BUT I would really like to feel like it is ok to go to group classes as a follow. It's ok for the ladies to come as leaders. I have actually had a guy refuse to dance with me and in most cases, there is some level of weirdness no matter what. Too much nervous humor... shut up and dance! Most days I am comfortable and want to give back to the community by being a strong leader through the rotations, but some days, it's about me darn it. ;)

[wooh]

Some women get weirded out by women leading in group lessons too. But I can see it being worse for men.

[DanceLightly]

In my courses, I allow everyone to sign up in advance as leaders or followers and then they can dance what they want for the entire course. I do it this way for a number of reasons, including such requests from male students to learn to follow and ladies to lead. It's not a problem for me or my students this way. It would be a problem, for example, if I ran a drop in class and 3 of my 5 men decided to dance as follows... would throw the whole balance off and tick off some of female clients. In addition, because it is up front about having the option to lead or follow, my students are a bit more open to the idea.

[chomsky]

Although I only started dancing less than a year ago, I am also learning how to lead with a friend of mine who is a follow.
It's quite an experience changing roles. I don't see why it shouldn't be ok for men to learn how to be follows. It's the magic of dance;dance transcends sexes, there are no limits. There is no weight limit, no age limit, no ability-disability limit. Why should there be sex discrimination?
I love seeing men dance together, not only for personal reasons, but because I find it really beautiful. It's the combination of two strengths, while with two women dancing together, it's the combination of their grace.

[ajiboyet]

It's the magic of dance;dance transcends sexes, there are no limits.

Er...not when it's ballroom dancing, no.

[mindputtee]

I've never noticed guys having problems dancing with guys at any of the classes I've been at. This year at MIT a few of my guy friends did latin together and were getting quite a bit of cheering from the audience, it was good fun. I (as a tall woman) enjoy leading some of my shorter male friends in ballroom once in a while. It's good fun and in the reverse role waltz at DCDI last year my friend and I actually finaled. It gives me a chance to appreciate how hard the leaders work.

I also occasionally pop in on the newbie classes the older members of the university team have and if there are not enough leaders I'll lead so that every one gets a chance to dance. Maybe it is that from an early point in our dance experience we dance with the same sex so it's no big deal to us.

Oh and I forgot, at Ohio last year one of our newbies was TBA and couldn't find a leader so I offered to dance with her so that she could get a chance to dance. We actually made a call back or two and it made both her and I so happy.

[laucy.my]

There are not enough guys dancing for them to be able to do that, at least where I am here. Unless when dear instructor who is a male, tries to demonstrate the female part to the students with the help of another male student. I am helping out instructor with beginners class and there is only one male student there, with 10 other females. I had to help instructor lead the females but I guess because there are sections like Ladies' Events in competitions, it isn't really that weird for them.

[dlliba10]

This year at MIT a few of my guy friends did latin together and were getting quite a bit of cheering from the audience, it was good fun.

:o They were AWESOME!

I don't know -- for me, it boils down to the fact that I would feel awful asking my follow to do something I couldn't / wouldn't do myself. So, I work on my following with other men leading to make myself a better leader by knowing what my follow feels and is being asked to do. Granted, I can really only do this in cha and rumba so far, but that's the point of practice, isn't it? ;)

[tassel45]

with pros in studios and during classes, sure. You are only an expert when you can do male and female steps (I can't) very well. Goes for both males and femals.