Why do women bother to learn to dance?

[KevinL]

Stereotypically speaking, in the US women love to/want to dance, and men want to avoid it.

I constantly hear from women that they want to learn to dance, or that they have always wanted to learn to dance. I almost never hear that from men. The closest I've heard is "all the singles ads say that they want a guy who can dance, so I guess I have to learn."

The problem, of course, is that partner dancing requires a partner, and if a woman doesn't have a partner they can't partner dance. It doesn't matter how many lessons a lady has taken, if she attends a wedding or party and there aren't any guys there who want to / know how to dance, she's stuck.

Why do women bother learning to dance if they don't have a built-in partner?

[Genesius Redux]

Women say they want to learn to dance--but when push comes to shove, they can be just as lazy as guys. At least guys, once they've made the decision to learn, actually are in it to learn. Many women, in my experience, don't really want to put in the effort they need to get better. That's why so many men here complain just as much as women do about how hard it is to find a partner.

[Adwiz]

I've noticed something interesting in this regard.

Men tend to be task and goal-oriented. They see something like learning to dance as a mission. They commit to a plan of action and stay with it until their mission (however they defined it) is accomplished. This gives them a sense of completion and where they get much of their sense of personal fulfilment from. Like Genesius, I've found that most guys who actually start to dance stay with it and discipline themselves to excel. I think it comes from this issue.

Women as a rule get much more of their sense of fulfilment from relationships. My take as a guy (I'm mostly guessing here) is that their desire to dance comes largely from a sense that it will enhance their strength in making and keeping relationships. It's elegant and desirable and very social, so they see it as something they ought to do to complete their sense of wholeness as a person. My experience in talking about this with a handful of women suggests that they don't see it nearly as much of a mission to complete but as a lifestyle choice. They do stay with it just like men do, but not with the mental intensity that men put towards it, even when they compete.

An example of this is one of my coaches mentioning that his women students will often sit or stand around in groups and talk during practice time, while the men just want to practice over and over quite intensely until practice time is "accomplished."

[Genesius Redux]

Hm. Yeah. 8)

[cl5814]

Many women, in my experience, don't really want to put in the effort they need to get better. That's why so many men here complain just as much as women do about how hard it is to find a partner.

Yes, i agree that some women do not want to improve their dance skills since of what help is it if they (women) are gold level dancers but all the men at the social dances are bronze level dancers. The women will never get to do her silver/gold level figures, so why bother learning it. At least in a social situation. I guess the same hold true had the roles been reversed.

The questions comes down to why you like to dance. For me it was the music and social interaction (i stare at a computer 8 hours a day :) )

[Chris Stratton]

I would rather see people work on the poise, balance, foot strength, etc needed to support fully developed dancing and have a chance of someday doing gold figures comfortably, than worry about the figures themselves.

If you find someone who it feels really good to do basic material with, learning to do fancy stuff is just a matter of putting in a few months of work together, because you already have the necessary fundamentals.

Unfortunately, many of the people in silver/gold classes are not in a position to learn what the class is teaching.

[Genesius Redux]

Many women, in my experience, don't really want to put in the effort they need to get better. That's why so many men here complain just as much as women do about how hard it is to find a partner.

Yes, i agree that some women do not want to improve their dance skills since of what help is it if they (women) are gold level dancers but all the men at the social dances are bronze level dancers. The women will never get to do her silver/gold level figures, so why bother learning it. At least in a social situation. I guess the same hold true had the roles been reversed.

Oh, I didn't mean those few women who actually learn to dance by going to a studio and taking lessons and social dancing and practicing. I mean the general people you run into at work or socially.

"So," she asks. "What have you got planned for the weekend?"

"Well, every Friday we go out salsa dancing, and..."

"Oh, really? That sounds like so much fun! I've wanted to really learn how to dance for a while now."

"Well, so why don't you come out with us?"

Week One--I was planning to go out to a concert.

Week Two--I was going to get together with some friends.

Week Three--I'm going out of town to see some old college pals.

Finally Week Four rolls around, she shows up at the club--she's used to sort of groovin to the music, and she's surprised that the steps aren't that easy to just pick up. And that there's technique involved. And she's like "show me this, show me that, show me everything," like she's suddenly going to absorb in one night stuff that you've been working on for two or three years, longer.

The moment it becomes something you have to work at, the moment it becomes something that requires a commitment, she's outta there.

Come on, guys--be honest. How many of you have had exactly the same kinds of experiences I'm talking about?

Women talk about dancing like it's some kind of feminine birthright, like childbirth or something, part of what you just are born with as a woman. And maybe because they're used to men who feel awkward dancing, they feel more in control or whatever because they don't have the same sort of reluctance. But once a man gets a little accomplished in dancing, all of that certainty drains away. And the man is like an interloper on the fields of femininity. Women only feel comfortable with him if he's gay--so he's already got this disenfranchised club membership card. But a straight guy who knows how to dance--most women, not the women on this forum, mind you, who are the exceptions--most women freak out and run in the other direction.

I suspect that dance has for many American women this status as an activity within which they can have their own sense of power. To mess with that power by appropriating some of it freaks them out.

Which is why, when taking out women who don't really know how to dance, men have to be very careful--almost bend over backwards--to make the women feel safe and accomplished and like they're naturally good. Again, the women on DF are exceptions--you're all out there learning how to do it. But guys, tell me the truth. Am I exaggerating? Is it not very difficult to take women out dancing if they've never danced before and make them feel comfortable? And is it not also true that these same women feel very free and comfortable in their relationships with gay men?

Getting back to the original question then--I'm sort of changing it. Why are women so reluctant to learn to dance when there are available male partners?

[spatten]

An interesting post GR, a true web of pyschological interactions to analyze.

I know this post will be full of generalizations - but that seems unavoidable in this topic. Many women I know, and I suspect many others, seem to be able to honestly enjoy activities at any level of profieciency without the annyoning need to progress that plagues many men, myself included. Men may not be able to enjoy dancing as easily at any level.

I think men who get interested in dance, are get caught up with an strong desire to be a better dancer. Maybe a large part of that is comes from the need to be strong and proficient in front of women. My guess is that women aren't really in this position and only decide to really improve their dancing when they learn to appreicate what dance offers.

I really need to learn how to quote on message boards, but until then, let me respond to your comments about good straight dancers. It has been my experience that many women melt under a good lead - regardless of the males sexual disposition. Maybe I have run into a few women who were put off that I could dance better than they -- but that seems a weak minority. My guess is the large percentage of women that "freak out and run the other way" are probably just young - but that is another topic.

Thanks,
Scott

[SDsalsaguy]

I really need to learn how to quote on message boards...
Scott, all that you need to do is code as follows:

[quote="users name you're quoting here, in qutation marks"]text you want to quote [/quote]

This coding, for example, would show up as:

text you want to quote

Hope that helps!

[spatten]

Hope that helps!

I think it helped alot, guess I will find out when I hit the submit button! But seriously, I appreciate it.

Scott

[SDsalsaguy]

:lol:

...looks like it worked! :D

Glad to be of assistance

[msc]

I would rather see people work on the poise, balance, foot strength, etc needed to support fully developed dancing and have a chance of someday doing gold figures comfortably, than worry about the figures themselves.

Absolutely.

As for the rest of this thread, it's so hard to generalize. I know quite a few women that are very advanced, yet have no partner due to various reasons that have nothing to do with the dance floor. Generally speaking, in almost every ballroom couple, the woman is better than the man (whether the man realizes it or not,) so I'm not even sure about the premise. I do think a lot of dancers, both male and female, often hit plateaus which they never escape, but usually the woman's plateau is higher than the guy's.

[jon]

Why do women bother learning to dance if they don't have a built-in partner?

Have there been any women responding in this thread yet? :-)

Women are more likely to learn the other role and to dance with each other. Women are more likely to line dance or solo dance. Seems consistent with your stereotype.

[pygmalion]

One woman responded, so far. I need to go off and measure my response, but I'll be back later.

[pygmalion]

Okay. So here's a scenario. You're a fifty two year old woman with two teenage kids and a recent divorce. You're a high powered professional with a decent sized pile of cash to spend any way you want. You also have a ton of free time in the evenings, and you've always wanted to ballroom dance. Exactly why should you NOT learn to dance? Because you don't have a built in partner? That doesn't look like an impediment to me. Just do what thousands of other self-respecting women do. Go pro-am. Spend the money, enjoy yourself immensely, and, if you're like me, go after dance-related goals with all the zeal you can muster. The generalization about women being less goal-oriented than men is just that -- a generalization, not universally applicable.

[SalsaGeek]

I know this too well. This happens to me a lot. Some women have no desire to stick with it when I tell them you can't expect to learn everything in one night. (This goes for men too) :wink:
They would get frustrated and quit. I met too many girls and guys that are like that. :(

Come on, guys--be honest. How many of you have had exactly the same kinds of experiences I'm talking about?

[pygmalion]

I honestly don't think those experiences are gender-specific. Some personalities are one way, some personalities another. There are both guys and gals who are quitters, and both gals and guys that will stick to it, to the death, I think.

[Chris Stratton]

One thing to remember is that with the excepction of those dragged to a few classes by their fiancee/girlfriend/wife, most men who actually make it in the door to dance lessons have already made a very big decision that dancing is something they want to make a serious try at - they've already invested so much of themselves overcoming reflexive objections that when they do walk in the door, it is with determination.

If they walk in to find a teacher who makes it possible for them to go efficiently from where they are to where they want to be, then they can quickly leave behind those who are less committed.

I guess this probably isn't unique (or universal) to men, but might apply to anyone who hits that first lesson only after breaking through a number of self-created obstacles.

[pygmalion]

I agree, Chris.

I have a close friend, a guy who was dragged to dance lessons first by his girl friend. Short story. They broke up. She quit. He stayed. But that's his personality and his experience, I think. He doesn't do anything badly, so his only option was to stick with dance at a level of commitment that enabled him to achieve excellence. I don't think his psyche allowed him any other option.

[peachexploration]

Okay. So here's a scenario. You're a fifty two year old woman with two teenage kids and a recent divorce. You're a high powered professional with a decent sized pile of cash to spend any way you want. You also have a ton of free time in the evenings, and you've always wanted to ballroom dance. Exactly why should you NOT learn to dance? Because you don't have a built in partner? That doesn't look like an impendiment to me. Just do what thousands of other self-respecting women do. Go pro-am. Spend the money, enjoy yourself immensely, and, if you're like me, go after dance-related goals with all the zeal you can muster. The generalization about women being less goal-oriented than men is just that -- a generalization, not universally applicable.

Pygmalion uses the perfect example here. Sure, it may be much easier to have a partner but what if you don't have that option? You'll be spending months/years waiting and all the while, time is passing you by when you could have been enjoying yourself. Also, depending on your upbringing, where you live, culture, etc. also determines partnership in social dancing. Not every guy likes ballroom, salsa, etc. Not every woman wants to compete. Some people love dancing, some people would rather play football. Some people start dancing to meet a romantic partner. Some dance JUST for the love of dance. In my circles, almost none of my friends dance Salsa. Alot of the time I am the only one who does in the group but why should I stop learning? Why should I wait on a partner? Why do I bother to learn to dance? I love to dance for me. :)

[Warren J. Dew]

Come on, guys--be honest. How many of you have had exactly the same kinds of experiences I'm talking about?
I've had some similar experiences, but a different explanation for it.

I think that women who are really serious about dancing to start with are more likely to choose ballet or modern over ballroom, so ballroom only gets a fraction of the women who are serious about dance. Of the women who only have a casual interest in dance, though, they'll all gravitate to ballroom because they figure it's easy - all they have to do is follow, right?

In the mean time, guys who are serious about dancing are far more likely to be interested in ballroom, where the guy gets as much of the limelight as the lady, than in ballet, where the guy plays only a supporting role. In the meantime, the guys who aren't serious about dance are likely not to even try ballroom - you have to learn to lead and all that stuff. It's easier to just join the company softball team.

In both cases, the nonserious outnumber the serious - and since it's nonserious guys that sometimes avoid ballroom, that results in a gender imbalance where there are more women than men overall. But because a lot of the serious women have selected some other form of dance, the guys that are actually serious about ballroom can outnumber the women who are.

But it's just a theory, I could easily be wrong.

[pygmalion]

For the record, I'm not fifty two with teenage kids. But my point is this: why should a woman wait on having a man around to achieve her joy in dancing or in life? If she wants to dance, let her dance.


Incidentally, my philosophy has created an excellent living for many a male dance pro. :wink: :lol: But, even if that scenario doesn't work out, jon is right. Women will dance together. I've led many a woman into a swing, rumba, or waltz. It's no big deal. I just wanna dance. :wink:

[peachexploration]

For the record, I'm not fifty two with teenage kids. But my point is this: why should a woman wait on a man around to achieve her joy in dancing or in life? If she wants to dance, let her dance. ......:

Amen, Pygmalion. P.S. We know you're only 21. :wink: :lol:

[pygmalion]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm not 21 either. But I was describing my older sister who IS 52 and has always wanted to dance. :wink:

[SalsaGeek]

Hehe, that's how I got into dancing. :lol:

I agree, Chris.

I have a close friend, a guy who was dragged to dance lessons first by his girl friend. Short story. They broke up. She quit. He stayed. But that's his personality and his experience, I think. He doesn't do anything badly, so his only option was to stick with dance at a level of commitment that enabled him to achieve excellence. I don't think his psyche allowed him any other option.

[spatten]

Warren,

I think you have made a valid observations about the motivations of women and ballroom. I am not sure your idea about why guys dance ballroom rings as true. I will have to consider this, but of course I maybe wrong.

I am trying to think of any serious guys I know dancing ballroom. I know is that I probably wasn't serious about dance before I was serious about ballroom. I'm guessing that is probably common. Ballet was never really an option for several reasons.

Scott

[etchuck]

I think I'm going to act contrarian for one case...

I don't know... maybe it's my sampling set. But while most guys wouldn't be interested in dancing if they were forced to do it, most guys who do take up dancing seem to do so for three reasons:

1) The chicks, and
2) The "escapism" from "reality", and
3) The chicks

I don't see that many problems with a lack of leading men in salsa or swing as I would in ballroom. The main reason is that at least with salsa, it's a "macho" thing, and once you get the confidence and the salsa rhythm down, just the ability to make a girl/woman (any girl/woman) move in a very sensual way makes him look damn cool too. Almost the same thing with swing (except there aren't any sensual moves there except for WCS)... though it's more that you're able to release and enjoy being completely childish with a girl/woman.

Of course, I'm trying to think of why I like doing ballroom so much. I think for me, it's the challenge of being "well-rounded" and do many different dances well, as opposed to doing just swing or just salsa. Not to mention, my love for orchestral music carries over better with ballroom dancing than hip-hop.

[tj]

I think I'm going to act contrarian for one case...

I don't know... maybe it's my sampling set. But while most guys wouldn't be interested in dancing if they were forced to do it, most guys who do take up dancing seem to do so for three reasons:

1) The chicks, and
2) The "escapism" from "reality", and
3) The chicks


That echoes my own experiences as well. Most guys I know started because of this.

In my own experiences, I'll generalize further that the younger set doesn't seem to find ballroom as appealing as salsa or swing. With the several different scenes that I've seen, ballroom has tended to have an older (and smaller) crowd. People will try it, but then decide to go where more of their peers are.

[pygmalion]

I'm not trying to be difficult, here, but this thread reminds me of a thread about six months ago (in the salsa forum, I think) It was called "What makes a good leader," and only men answered. Then, a couple days later, there was a companion thread,"what makes a good follower," and only men answered. Hmmm. What IS wrong with this picture? :wink: :lol: :lol:

[SDsalsaguy]

So why aren't the women responding/posting? Enquiring minds want to know... :wink:

[Kitty]

But because a lot of the serious women have selected some other form of dance, the guys that are actually serious about ballroom can outnumber the women who are.

But it's just a theory, I could easily be wrong.

So how does that go with the everyday observation of lack of male partners?

[pygmalion]

Hi, kitty. :D I won't poison the conversation with my point of view. Just wanted to say hello. :wink: :D

[mamboqueen]

Maybe no women are answering because you men just know it all :lol:

Okay; it is admittedly very hard for women to make the most out of dancing without a partner and much harder to find one than vice versa. I had one for 3 years, but got dumped because he found a girlfriend/partner. I am married and was grateful for the three years we partnered up. I took lessons for a while after that but then came to the *brilliant* conclusion that it was a waste of money for me to learn steps. So, I decided to find another studio and develop some style, technique and a better ability to follow. I will say that I became a better follower when I didn't have a regular partner anymore. I do still go social dancing, but I am starting to compete. I don't know how long I'll keep that up since it is an expensive endeavor and there is that retirement home I'd like to own some day!

In any event, most women I know dance because they simply love to dance. It was this way as long as I can remember, whether it was dancing at a disco, a wedding, a club, etc. No matter what type of dancing it is, there are always more women doing it.

[Chris Stratton]

But because a lot of the serious women have selected some other form of dance, the guys that are actually serious about ballroom can outnumber the women who are.

But it's just a theory, I could easily be wrong.

So how does that go with the everyday observation of lack of male partners?

Perhaps the more serious dancers tend to advance from uncomfortably awkward to well beyond the capabilities of most of the "might take dancing seriously if I ever had a partner" crowd quickly enough that the people waiting there don't get much of a chance at them.

College teams short on guys may want to consider not only if their recruiting makes the acitivity attractive, but also if the guys are getting the kind of training that lets them feel like they are making progress, as opposed to always being shown up by girls who may start with more confidence or prior movement training. (Though it would be fair to say that some consideration of the reverse may be true in a few settings, too)

[pygmalion]

Maybe no women are answering because you men just know it all :lol:


Hi mamboqueen! Welcome. Nice to know there's another sister in the house. :wink: :kissme:

[mamboqueen]

Thank you :wink:

I notice you're in the Sunshine State. I'm green with envy! All of my friends just came back all nice and tanned while I resemble steamed rice. I hope the dancing scene is good down there, because I aim to be there one day myself!

[pygmalion]

Pretty nice for social dancing where I am (Orlando.) For ballroom, you more or less have to wait for a competion if you're a competitive dancer, or go to South Flroida for stellar salsa. But yes, Florida's a fun place to dance. :D

[DancePoet]

I wouldn't say men know it all, I'm glad mamboqueen gave an answer, and I am interested in hearing from more women.

Some interesting ideas so far, but I don't have the foggiest idea how the question is best answered. I suspect there are a variety of reasons. And I'd be better qualified answering why I bothered to learn to dance. Probably better for another thread.

[pygmalion]

To be honest, I think women learn to dance for a variety of reasons, but this thread isn't worded in a way that will elicit those answers. This thread wants to address the gender disparities in available dance partners.; That's okay with me, too. :wink: 8)

[Hank]

My observation from dancing around the US is that the gender balance varies widely, and tends to mirror age demographics. At venues that attract dancers over age 65, women outnumber men by a wide margin. But, venues that attract younger dancers tend to have equal gender balance, or the men even slightly outnumber the women. For example, since salsa tends to be danced at bars and nightclubs, it attracts a younger crowd, and the men frequently outnumber the women. Also, men seem to take more lessons that do women, so although a beginning salsa group class might have a gender balance that is almost equal, at an intermediate or advanced salsa group class, the men frequently outnumber the women 2-1 or even 3-1.

I've also noticed that at ballroom competitions, the women competing pro-am greatly outnumber the men competing pro-am. The men seem to be more interested in am-am partnerships or social dancing in lieu of competition. I've also experienced great difficulty in convincing women to form an am-am competitive partnership. They seem quite content to compete pro-am instead. I can only speculate as to the reason, but I assume it's because pro-am gives them more control and is more convenient, which they prefer over the messiness of having to deal with a relationship, even a dance-only relationship.

[cocodrilo]

I have only danced salsa, so I cannot comment on ballroom, swing, etc. Here in Japan, the median age for ballroom dancers(or at least the ones I see practicing in all of the dance studios in my area) is like 55. They do it for their health, basically, but there are some couples who compete. Salsa dancing-hmm. Yes, a lot of guys do it "for the chicks" and some just go to our parties because they enjoy the music, LOOKING at the chicks, and drinking beer. The women I know tend to persevere more than the men, who are slaves to their employers, thus cannot attend classes as regularly as the women. I have seen both genders get discouraged, thanks to instructors throwing dead beginners into intermediate pairwork classes, and quit. Why do women dance salsa? Because it makes you feel like a woman, you can wear sexy clothes, it's a great sport, you keep yourself in fantastic shape and can meet fun people! I think this can appy to ALL forms of dance!
:D

[mamboqueen]

I was just joking about men knowing everything. We all know the truth :roll:

Pygmalion - I was in your area in December (whilst my friends were digging out of 3' of snow up here). We had a great time. Too much food availability, though. I'd be in big trouble!

Hank, I think you've touched on another relevant issue: demographics. You mention salsa....latin/hispanic men, and Asian men for that matter, seem to have a high prevalence in dance. If I went into a club in a hispanic community, there'd be a TON of men dancing there. If I went to the local non-latin suburb, you'd find one guy dancing with ten women (and they'd all be fighting each other for him!) I the latin culture is very music and dance oriented, and it's VERY much the norm for young boys to be moving/dancing at an early age and it isn't frowned upon as being "unmacho". I have to admit, although the steretype is that African Americans have a higher likelihood of having natural rythym, I don't see many of them out on the (ballroom) dance floor.

[peachexploration]

Stereotypically speaking, in the US women love to/want to dance, and men want to avoid it.

I constantly hear from women that they want to learn to dance, or that they have always wanted to learn to dance. I almost never hear that from men. The closest I've heard is "all the singles ads say that they want a guy who can dance, so I guess I have to learn."

The problem, of course, is that partner dancing requires a partner, and if a woman doesn't have a partner they can't partner dance. It doesn't matter how many lessons a lady has taken, if she attends a wedding or party and there aren't any guys there who want to / know how to dance, she's stuck.

Why do women bother learning to dance if they don't have a built-in partner?
Okay, here is what I'm getting from KevinL's question:
Why do women partner dance when alot of men dont? Why do women learn a partner dance when you have to dance alone? Why don't women do another kind of dance that doesn't need a partner? So the problem is not US (women) in particular. :lol: It's more of a heartache/headache question. Why should we (women) bother when the chance to partner dance is sometimes few and far between. Answer: There are many answers as there are individuals. Possible answers: "Well, I want to know just in case I do find a partner.", "I've always wanted to learn.", etc., etc. etc. My answer: I simply love to dance.

Let's try a counter question. Guys, why do you NOT partner dance when you know women want and/or love to partner dance?

[mamboqueen]

Good one! Unfortunately, the guys you want answering the question aren't reading this board!

My husband simply prefers fishing.

[peachexploration]

Good one! Unfortunately, the guys you want answering the question aren't reading this board!......

Exactly, Mamboqueen.

Oh, Welcome to the DF. Happy to have you here!! :D

[cocodrilo]

VERY interesting points, Peach!
BTW, I know a lot of women who don't like/prefer not to dance with a partner, myself included. :?

[elegance]

Hmm. I like peachexploration's take on the question, that was how I saw it too. As a female that is addicted to ballroom dance, I'm not really sure why I persist in partner dancing when it can be so hard to find a partner. It partially has to do with the increased variety of dances and music (and I'm more attracted to that type of music), and one major factor, that you tend to, and can, learn partner dancing at a much later age. If you missed the ballet boat :? in your childhood, when you feel the lack later, you can just take up ballroom or salsa. However, you're less likely to do much with ballet...
Now, I'm not sure why males don't take it up in the same numbers, although I know some think it has an effeminate connotation!

[Dancegal]

...But once a man gets a little accomplished in dancing, all of that certainty drains away. And the man is like an interloper on the fields of femininity. Women only feel comfortable with him if he's gay--so he's already got this disenfranchised club membership card. But a straight guy who knows how to dance--most women, not the women on this forum, mind you, who are the exceptions--most women freak out and run in the other direction.

I suspect that dance has for many American women this status as an activity within which they can have their own sense of power. To mess with that power by appropriating some of it freaks them out.


I'm not a ballroom dancer, but a swing (Lindy/WCS/ECS) and occasional salsa & country (Two-step/Polka) dancer so can't speak on ballroom men seeming less masculine (if that what was meant by the above). All I know is a man with a sense of rhythm who can dance is decidedly a sexier man in my book.

I sure don't get that second statement on dance as a women's activity, sense of power stuff, etc.

[ShyDancer]

Why do women bother learning to dance if they don't have a built-in partner?


I learn for fun, I enjoy doing it. Has nothing to do with meeting anyone, impressing anyone, wanting attention.
When Im dancing Im happy, and who doesnt want to be happy?


You see dancing on TV and think, wow thats awesome, Id love to give it a go, but stop and think for a minute, how many times have you seen something on TV that you'd like to try but never got around to it?
Some people (believe it or not!) just wont enjoy dancing.
Just like I havent enjoyed other activities I have tried out. I tried for a bit but it lost its appeal.

I dont think its so much a problem of not having a partner, every class Ive seen works on a rotation system, nearly every advertisement I see for dancing studios has "no partner required" written in bold.
Had I waited around for a partner Id still be longinly watching everyone else dance!

I dont believe women do it to fill an emotional void either... sure some probably do, but Id guess that they are the same women who regularly attend sporting events that they have little interest in, in hope of meeting a man.
They probably try out various social activities..........
And Men do that too.
These are the people that will never truly be a "Dancer"

[tasche]

I think to me women take up partner dancing bc from the very first class you get to dance. If you've never taken a structured dance class (ballet, tap, modern etc) then you may not understand what I mean by that.

In ballet you spend years ( though adult beginners can progress faster than a child due to "metal capability) learning exercises to train your muscles etc before you can "dance". Performance oprtunities are usually limited to end of year Nutcracker performances. With ballroom at the end of the lesson your dancing ( more or less )

For adult who has never taken formal dance classes to do so without the feedback of actually getting to dance ona regular basis may not get far. And here is the ultimate kicker particularly in ballet. Adult beginners are treated like second class dance citizens. At three of the studios I've taken classes no matter how much technique goes back to when I was 18 no matter how well I dance I will NEVER be allowed to perform with the "regular" students. ( being a parent in nutcracker doesn't count as its a walk on role) This attitude is prevant amongst most ballet studios.

I came in ballroom as a youngster where I had a steady supply of guys. About 17 that well dried up and I basically gave up until last year when I realised that america unlike where I grew up has this system where I can participate again without having to drag my spouse in kicking and screaming

We all have different circumstances I guess

[Chris Stratton]

In ballet you spend years ( though adult beginners can progress faster than a child due to "metal capability) learning exercises to train your muscles etc before you can "dance".

This is a good point... however it may also be true that the major failing of ballroom right now is an excessive fear of this kind of training. Ballroom dancing does not approach the physical demands of ballet, but even competent social dancing does require building some specific strength and flexbility not present in the untrained public.

It's long been claimed that the strength of a certain Boston-area collegiate program is in the tendancy to spend some time on training exercises right from the start. Of course it's balanced with opportunities to enjoy dancing and learn some figures.

[Genesius Redux]

...But once a man gets a little accomplished in dancing, all of that certainty drains away. And the man is like an interloper on the fields of femininity. Women only feel comfortable with him if he's gay--so he's already got this disenfranchised club membership card. But a straight guy who knows how to dance--most women, not the women on this forum, mind you, who are the exceptions--most women freak out and run in the other direction.

I suspect that dance has for many American women this status as an activity within which they can have their own sense of power. To mess with that power by appropriating some of it freaks them out.


I'm not a ballroom dancer, but a swing (Lindy/WCS/ECS) and occasional salsa & country (Two-step/Polka) dancer so can't speak on ballroom men seeming less masculine (if that what was meant by the above). All I know is a man with a sense of rhythm who can dance is decidedly a sexier man in my book.

I sure don't get that second statement on dance as a women's activity, sense of power stuff, etc.

Hi DanceGal--

I guess what I was trying to get at is the idea of dance as a (culturally) feminine activity. Girls dance with other girls throughout junior high and high school, and even in clubs sometimes. The boys tend to stand on the outskirts awkwardly watching. Often they feel ill at ease dancing, where the girls feel highly at ease just moving to the music.

In a culture where inequities still follow lines of gender--where women still have to work to achieve confidence in the workplace that men take for granted, the dance floor as a kind of culturally female-controlled space must appear very attractive. To see men (salsa dancers, ballroom dancers or whatever) claiming power in that space has got to be jarring for many women who like to think of dance as one activity in which women are always more comfortable than men.

I'm talking about the generality of the non-dancing public here. The people on this forum are rather different. But think of your non-dancing friends, those friends who just want to go out every now and then and "dance," no rules, freestyle. Most of them are probably women. And I'm suggesting that the reluctance of these women to really pursue dancing as a serious occupation may have something to do with the more traditional gender politics of partner dancing.

That's as clear as I can be at midnight--sorry! :wink:

[Chris Stratton]

It's a controversial theory, but I see some merit to it.

It might also be viewed this way: people who are comfortable in their bodies and have good balance and control over those bodies often like freestyle sorts of dancing.

The problem is that you can't just hop on the floor and freestyle partner dance, unless perhaps you learned to walk with a conjoined twin fused to your hip. You aren't used to taking the presense of another body into account in your free actions.

So that's what a lot of ballroom technique really is - systematic training in how to move closely with another person. Once that is mastered, you can freestyle again (as a couple) - but until it's figured out, someone has to be putting some thought into all those issues. Quite often that's the guy - he's worried about how to make everything work, while the girl gets annoyed that he won't let go and just dance with her.

Because it's a new skill, and there is a systematic body of theoretical knowledge, the study of ballroom can attract people who are practicaly opposite in personality from the freestyle-enjoying crowd. Of course it also gets many natural dancers who accept the need to learn some technique - some of whom may for all I know find an almost instinctive ability to accomodate the presence of a partner.

But a lot of natural dancers are still going to be frustrated that the art of dancing with another person (as opposed to near another person) often gets turned into a mechanical science...

[Sagitta]

Why do women bother to dance? Why do guys not want to dance when the know women want to dance?

I want to dance because of the feeling that I get when the song, me and my partner mesh in one dance. To me dance is all about being one with the music.

When young I actually was approached a couple times and asked if I wanted to learn to dance for free in Tanzania. I was a little too withdrawn, introverted, horribly shy to do that. However, I did feel the music and when certain songs came on and I didn't feel I was being watched I guess I moved well enough that I attracted such attention. After growing up, and becoming more outgoing, I got a regualr job and had the time to do so, and so decided that I wanted to learn to partner dance. I figured if I enjoyed feeling the music that I would see if partner dancing while enjoying a song was better, and it was under the right circumstances, and so I've stuck at it. There have been many dances, in class and socially where I've loused it up because the music did not appeal to me. I dance a tango with someone just doing the basic step and a few other moves. Next time a tango comes on she comes to me as she had enjoyed dancing with me (as I put my life and soul into dance) and I move like a stick!! :oops: The song was a crappy song for me!

I know a lot of people (guys and gals) who just don't feel the way that I do. Music through bodily expression does not bring life into their souls like it does to me. If it doesn't it is tough to get into it. That's my two cents, anyway. If a guy wants to get chicks he is more likely to give up if he looks like a fool!! That's why I've seen so many guys dragged in by girlfriends. They do it to keep their ladies, as their ladies are happy that they are making the effort for them.

[Sagitta]

Welcome to df elegance! :D

[goldfish]

hmm, i'm not american, but what the hey...

actually i think some women don't even realize it's possible to do partner dances without a partner. most assume you've got to have a willing partner. plus dancing - to every girl who's had the ballerina fantasy or cinderella waltz fantasy - is kind of a dream that you'd like to fulfil but as dreams go... sometimes happen, sometimes don't. a lot of women want to dance, but it's not just about the dance, it's about the romance, elegance, sensuality that you'd associate with particular dances. so they want to do it with their partner and only their partner, otherwise... nah.

(but that's just some. the ones that you don't see in classes. or the ones that come for two classes with significant other, learn a turn and disappear. ah, they're missing out. er, so am i... one less lead. boo.)

me, i wanted to dance because i didn't know how. when people told me to 'just move', i'd be flabbergasted. :?: :!:

like, "ooh that looks good. wait, i can't do that. what WAS that even?? hmm, better find out. i want to do that, that thingie. whatever it was."

that's why i bother to dance. :banana: :banana:

[hepcat]

of what help is it if they (women) are gold level dancers but all the men at the social dances are bronze level dancers

It's not the guys' fault that they're mostly bronze level dancers and that a larger number of girls are gold level dancers. It's because guys (typically) lead. We have a diminished ability to learn new moves on the dance floor because no one's trying moves we don't know with us. In fact, I've asked girls if they can show me a move and a lot of the time it's difficult for them to describe. On the other hand, each new girl I dance with, I usually have a move I can show them. So if a girl learns a new move from each guy she dances with, she quickly becomes a great dancer. I know girls who were brand new dancers when I met them. I showed them a lot of the basics and within a year or so (depending on inherent talent), they were better than I am.

I've heard though that one thing a guy can do that can help him with his lead is to learn to follow. A lot of the girls here know how to lead as well (they're more amenable to dancing with eachother than guys), so it's not an entirely awkward experience. I've only tried following lindy a couple times and I thought it was quite fun. I haven't danced much since then because I've been under the weather, but I plan to become decent at following.

Hepcat

[tasche]

Too true. what girl growing up didn't receive some kind of ballet gift at xmas time. Its the universal things all young girls like. Dancing and horses.

Back to Chris comment

"This is a good point... however it may also be true that the major failing of ballroom right now is an excessive fear of this kind of training. Ballroom dancing does not approach the physical demands of ballet, but even competent social dancing does require building some specific strength and flexbility not present in the untrained public. "

Can't argue with that but its the fear of excessive training or it "being hard" is what drive girls/women to ballroom which in the long run can't be bad thing.

Me personally with my ballet background and a keen intrest in kenisiology (sp?) find impossible to "just dance" but many ppl prefer to do just that and ballroom gets them to the dancing part faster than other methods.

I guess a better way of stating it is that more is "achievable" at the entry level. Even going around the round in a jerky bronze american foxtrot is a major achievement for some people but relatively easy compared to excuting a simple battement or developpe.

[tsb]

Okay. So here's a scenario. You're a fifty two year old woman with two teenage kids and a recent divorce. You're a high powered professional with a decent sized pile of cash to spend any way you want. You also have a ton of free time in the evenings, and you've always wanted to ballroom dance. Exactly why should you NOT learn to dance? Because you don't have a built in partner? That doesn't look like an impediment to me. Just do what thousands of other self-respecting women do. Go pro-am.

or hire a dance escort. ironically, $50/hr for the first three hours (the basic rate around here - dancing only - but exclusively with the client(s) - in a group of 3-4 ladies it comes out to only $40-50 apiece) can be cheaper than competing in the long run!

[bordertangoman]

I would rather see people work on the poise, balance, foot strength, etc needed to support fully developed dancing and have a chance of someday doing gold figures comfortably, than worry about the figures themselves.

.
I would agree with that entirely but I think its a case of strategy to entice motivate people. I know one teacher of AT who gave his beginners lots of steps to learn to keep them interested. Once hooked he would slowly teach them the skills to actually dance those steps.

My experience is there seems to be a high drop out rate. Poeple try it out and when its not as easy or as quick to learn as they expected they leave.
I am told it is more difficult to learn than salsa. Certainly leaders have more to learn in the initial stages than followers.

So the psychology of motivation seems key but one that I do not have.

Could not this post be in the General Dance Discussion?

As for wishing we must all do that but its a case of opportunity and making it happen and priority. I wish i danced a lot more but the opportunity is not there.

[tsb]

i should get credit for about 8-9 posts with this one. but i'm comfortable remaining a member of the bourgeoisie (sp?)


Why do women bother learning to dance if they don't have a built-in partner?

some don't - and in my experience without going into details (i can if you really MUST know :LOL: and actually i just posted quite a bit about some of it another topic about dating non dancers) it seems that they either want an escort (so that they don't get hit on) OR want to be taking dance lessons with their guy. maybe the converse is true - they just want to learn to dance - or they're doing it for social reasons?

I've noticed something interesting in this regard.

Men tend to be task and goal-oriented. They see something like learning to dance as a mission. They commit to a plan of action and stay with it until their mission (however they defined it) is accomplished. This gives them a sense of completion and where they get much of their sense of personal fulfilment from. Like Genesius, I've found that most guys who actually start to dance stay with it and discipline themselves to excel. I think it comes from this issue.

Women as a rule get much more of their sense of fulfilment from relationships. My take as a guy (I'm mostly guessing here) is that their desire to dance comes largely from a sense that it will enhance their strength in making and keeping relationships. It's elegant and desirable and very social, so they see it as something they ought to do to complete their sense of wholeness as a person. My experience in talking about this with a handful of women suggests that they don't see it nearly as much of a mission to complete but as a lifestyle choice. They do stay with it just like men do, but not with the mental intensity that men put towards it, even when they compete.

An example of this is one of my coaches mentioning that his women students will often sit or stand around in groups and talk during practice time, while the men just want to practice over and over quite intensely until practice time is "accomplished."

i concur with this wholeheartedly. there was an interesting article in sports illustrated concerning the women's soccer program at the university of north carolina. i recommend it to everyone who has a vested interest in having females working together towards any sort of goal. the anecdote that i recall most vividly concerns the coach's decision to have a professional come in and lead the stretching exercises before practice. the team's performance took a serious nosedive and did not return to their previous level until he returned to the previous unstructured stretching. the coach noted that teammates were getting into established 2-3 person groups and socializing, and connecting - which improved morale as well as strengthened team cohesiveness - it was another observation of the coach that his female team members would not pass the ball to a teammate they didn't like - regardless of how skilled the player was. i believe this also helps us guys to understand why women can enjoy dancing simple figures - as long as they like the person that they're dancing with - which leads to the segue to:


Getting back to the original question then--I'm sort of changing it. Why are women so reluctant to learn to dance when there are available male partners?

it might also explain why they don't go for lessons until they're in relationship with someone.

Why do I bother to learn to dance? I love to dance for me. :)

i imagine this to be a common response for a lot of people in DF - regardless of gender - who have pursued dance. and we understand that it's all it is when we ask someone to dance - a dance. but dancing may represent something different to someone else depending on their spiritual convictions, cultural background, even some traumatic incident in their past, etc. it took me a while to be comfortable with salsa - still avoid strictly salsa venues but i can pleasantly surprise the occasional latina guilty of racially profiling this asian born & raised in ohio!


In the mean time, guys who are serious about dancing are far more likely to be interested in ballroom

my take is that they're far more likely to be interested in other guys - maybe not the ones in ballroom, though.

Ballet was never really an option for several reasons.


your loss - 27 girls, 3 guys in my class & lots of dates with slim, limber women...

Of course, I'm trying to think of why I like doing ballroom so much. I think for me, it's the challenge of being "well-rounded" and do many different dances well, as opposed to doing just swing or just salsa.


me too


Not to mention, my love for orchestral music carries over better with ballroom dancing than hip-hop.

you do vintage too, though, right? try a waltz followed by a schottische to "lucy in the sky with diamonds" by the beatles


But because a lot of the serious women have selected some other form of dance, the guys that are actually serious about ballroom can outnumber the women who are.

But it's just a theory, I could easily be wrong.

So how does that go with the everyday observation of lack of male partners?

Perhaps the more serious dancers tend to advance from uncomfortably awkward to well beyond the capabilities of most of the "might take dancing seriously if I ever had a partner" crowd quickly enough that the people waiting there don't get much of a chance at them.


i dunno, it's a pretty steep learning curve for a guy IMO. maybe it's more a case of the advanced male dancers "sharking" in beginning & intermediate classes for the hotties and removing themselves from circulation socially?

To be honest, I think women learn to dance for a variety of reasons, but this thread isn't worded in a way that will elicit those answers.

plus those women who elect not to pursue dance aren't here to respond.


Let's try a counter question. Guys, why do you NOT partner dance when you know women want and/or love to partner dance?

i had a co-worker who actually told his girlfriend that he danced with her the first time they met just so he could get into her pants the next time they went dancing after they, uh, you know - and he refused to dance! they actually got married, too.

In ballet you spend years ( though adult beginners can progress faster than a child due to "metal capability) learning exercises to train your muscles etc before you can "dance".

i can usually identify the ballroom dancers with ballet training because they don't unlearn the toe point.

[Flat Shoes]

Ballet was never really an option for several reasons.


your loss - 27 girls, 3 guys in my class & lots of dates with slim, limber women...


hmmmm.... :D



Of course, I'm trying to think of why I like doing ballroom so much. I think for me, it's the challenge of being "well-rounded" and do many different dances well, as opposed to doing just swing or just salsa.


me too


Too me it's more than 'just swing'. I do mainly Lindy Hop. Lindy Hop is very flexible, everything from fast, flashy and with arials to slow, smooth and sexy. Also, when doing Lindy it comes natural do related stuff like the Balboa and Blues, if one wants to. In Lindy there's also Charleston and Shag moves, which makes it natural to learn some of these dances too. And of course there are different types of swing, like West Coast, East Coast and Boogie Woogie if you live in Europe. So there's much more to it than just swing.

And of course, there's nothing stopping me from doing a little Argentine Tango on the side. :D

Nothing wrong with Ballroom (except the lack of aerials :P ), but just to show that swing do have a lot of variations to offer for the interested.

[peachexploration]

Let's try a counter question. Guys, why do you NOT partner dance when you know women want and/or love to partner dance?

i had a co-worker who actually told his girlfriend that he danced with her the first time they met just so he could get into her pants the next time they went dancing after they, uh, you know - and he refused to dance! they actually got married, too..

Well, I can understand that. Maybe they were both learning to dance for the same reasons. Nothing wrong with that at all. But if you're serious about dancing, there will be another whole can of worms happening later. :( You know, that question after being together six years later and unhappy, "Why don't you dance with me anymore?" Which is another reason why men and women may not have partners. Different goals, different desires, etc.

[KevinL]

Wow, I need to ask pointedly obnoxious questions more often. Five pages of responses since I logged off yesterday seems like a record.

I "know" why women "bother to learn" to dance. Women (and men) learn to dance because they want to, but everyone wants to learn for different reasons. It looks like fun to watch, you dance and endorphins are released and it's a lot of fun so you do it again. That's why women (and men) learn to dance, in my opinion.

Thanks for all the replies!

Kevin

[Kitty]

Perhaps the more serious dancers tend to advance from uncomfortably awkward to well beyond the capabilities of most of the "might take dancing seriously if I ever had a partner" crowd quickly enough that the people waiting there don't get much of a chance at them.

College teams short on guys may want to consider not only if their recruiting makes the acitivity attractive, but also if the guys are getting the kind of training that lets them feel like they are making progress, as opposed to always being shown up by girls who may start with more confidence or prior movement training. (Though it would be fair to say that some consideration of the reverse may be true in a few settings, too)

Very interesting thoughts.

In my experience it is girls who get bored and drop out, but it is guys who stick with the team and don't improve much and don't work too hard.

On SBU team there actually are more guys than girls (SBU is a big science/engineering school) . However most guys we have suck! Most girls - don't. out of people who started this year only 3 guys are serious about their dancing and are pretty good, 4 girls are serious and very good, the rest of girls are almost all very good too and the guys - they stay with the team because it is fun: people are fun, activities are fun, and they want to find girlfriends:-). So we have more guys than girls, and at the same time I didn't have a partner for samba at MIT and had to dance with a girl, while many girls (me included) didn't get as good marks and placings as they could if their partner was at their level.
But I guess there is nothing special about this situation as we can't expect pairs of people to be at the same level - someone is always better than other.

[Kitty]

[It's not the guys' fault that they're mostly bronze level dancers and that a larger number of girls are gold level dancers. It's because guys (typically) lead. We have a diminished ability to learn new moves on the dance floor because no one's trying moves we don't know with us. In fact, I've asked girls if they can show me a move and a lot of the time it's difficult for them to describe. On the other hand, each new girl I dance with, I usually have a move I can show them. So if a girl learns a new move from each guy she dances with, she quickly becomes a great dancer. I know girls who were brand new dancers when I met them. I showed them a lot of the basics and within a year or so (depending on inherent talent), they were better than I am.

yeah

[tsb]

Nothing wrong with Ballroom (except the lack of aerials :P ), but just to show that swing do have a lot of variations to offer for the interested.

i do aerials, dips & drops in salsa. and there are lindy tunes that i think make a better foxtrot...

[rails]

27 girls, 3 guys in my class & lots of dates with slim, limber women...

You're kidding, right? In probably 90% of the classes, clubs and dances I've been to, the men outnumber the women. Sometimes by ridiculous amounts. I remember going to a Salsa class last month where there were 12 women and 8 men. I still haven't gotten over the shock. 4 extra women! I don't think such a thing has ever been seen before or since in San Francisco.

I know this thread's in the ballroom forum. Unfortunately, my ballroom experience is limited to a single month of classes. One week we had one extra woman, another week one extra man. The other two weeks we were even. Based on my experience with other dances it was cause for a celebration inside my head. Usually, I spend a lot of time in classes standing around while I wait my turn to practice with the few available followers.

As you can guess, this thread didn't make much sense to me in the first place since here, anyway, many more men than women are interested in learning to dance.

[Chris Stratton]

I think the 27 vs. 3 was from someone's BALLET class, not ballroom or salsa.

[spatten]

Hey,

Jazz classes are like that too! There were only "2" guys in my class. You get the great ratio - without the dance belt.

Scott

[rails]

I think the 27 vs. 3 was from someone's BALLET class, not ballroom or salsa.

Oops. Thanks. I read "ballet" as "ballroom." The rest of my post is still okay, I guess. The male/female ratio observation about salsa applies to tango and lindy hop here as well.

[DancePoet]

tsb:

Regarding your comment about Warren's statement, how would you define a guy that is serious about dancing?

[pygmalion]

Wow, I need to ask pointedly obnoxious questions more often. Five pages of responses since I logged off yesterday seems like a record.

I "know" why women "bother to learn" to dance. Women (and men) learn to dance because they want to, but everyone wants to learn for different reasons. It looks like fun to watch, you dance and endorphins are released and it's a lot of fun so you do it again. That's why women (and men) learn to dance, in my opinion.

Thanks for all the replies!

Kevin

I'm so glad you said that, Kevin. I was beginning to wonder. :wink: :lol:

[pygmalion]

tsb:

Regarding your comment about Warren's statement, how would you define a guy that is serious about dancing?

I think tsb is playing mind games with us all. He went down a list of everyone's posts and gave semi-controversial replies. Methinks the man is playing devil's advocate. Either that, or he was really tired when he made his mega-post. :twisted: :wink: :lol: :D

Men who are serious about dance are ... serious about dance. There are no other conclusions one can draw without further info, IMHO. 8)

[jon]

I remember going to a Salsa class last month where there were 12 women and 8 men. I still haven't gotten over the shock. 4 extra women! I don't think such a thing has ever been seen before or since in San Francisco.

Word. Shortly after moving out here I went to salsa classes at Alberto's and was confronted with a 14:4 ratio - of which two couples were partnered up and not rotating, leaving a 6:1 ratio for the rest of us. I gave up on the local salsa scene at that point. It's a bit lead-heavy in local WCS and ballroom classes, but not insane like that.

[jon]

...and there are lindy tunes that i think make a better foxtrot...

And vice-versa, as there's no such thing as a "lindy tune" or "foxtrot tune" - just music which happens to be suitable for those dances, and DJs who very well may not care whether a non-X dancer thinks the music they play is better suited to something other than X.

[pygmalion]

I remember going to a Salsa class last month where there were 12 women and 8 men. I still haven't gotten over the shock. 4 extra women! I don't think such a thing has ever been seen before or since in San Francisco.

Word. Shortly after moving out here I went to salsa classes at Alberto's and was confronted with a 14:4 ratio - of which two couples were partnered up and not rotating, leaving a 6:1 ratio for the rest of us. I gave up on the local salsa scene at that point. It's a bit lead-heavy in local WCS and ballroom classes, but not insane like that.

Yup. Tons more leads in the salsa (class) scene here, too. They have to resort to bribing women to attend class. LOL. Works for me. :wink: :lol:

[tsb]

27 girls, 3 guys in my class & lots of dates with slim, limber women...

You're kidding, right? In probably 90% of the classes, clubs and dances I've been to, the men outnumber the women.

i thought i deleted this reply. hmm.

[pygmalion]

I think the 27 vs. 3 was from someone's BALLET class, not ballroom or salsa.

Oops. Thanks. I read "ballet" as "ballroom." The rest of my post is still okay, I guess. The male/female ratio observation about salsa applies to tango and lindy hop here as well.

Yeah, tsb, Chris and rails caught that and corrected it. 8)

[tsb]

tsb:

Regarding your comment about Warren's statement, how would you define a guy that is serious about dancing?

<edit & SNIP> since i can't seem to delete this effectively. <sigh>

[tsb]

tsb:

Regarding your comment about Warren's statement, how would you define a guy that is serious about dancing?

I think tsb is playing mind games with us all. He went down a list of everyone's posts and gave semi-controversial replies. Methinks the man is playing devil's advocate. Either that, or he was really tired when he made his mega-post. :twisted: :wink: :lol: :D


or both. it WAS late, and things that seem cute at 3am come across differently in the full light of day. but some comments were definitely intended to be taken tongue-in-cheek & not seriously....


Men who are serious about dance are ... serious about dance. There are no other conclusions one can draw without further info, IMHO. 8)

doh! ok. i was not making any sort of stereotypic claim about men who pursue ballroom dance. and i'll go delete my reply to dancepoet.

[pygmalion]

:kissme: Love, hugs and kisses to you. No need to delete anything. We'll all still love you. At least, I will. :wink: :D 8)

[tsb]

:kissme: Love, hugs and kisses to you. No need to delete anything. We'll all still love you. At least, I will. :wink: :D 8)

you're too kind. and i DO need to maintain my post count if i want to move up the ranks...

shouldn't you be out dancing on a friday night?

barry

[pygmalion]

I'm hoping to head out soon, if the torrential downpours ever stop. It's been pouring, lightnening and thundering for the past three hours. Water's running in the streets. The last time I went out dancing in this (expletive deleted) I got so wet that I ended up having absolutely no fun. Soaked to the skin is no way to start the evening. :?

[Pacion]

Soaked to the skin is no way to start the evening. :?

Oh, I don't know about THAT! It depends on the setting/location :lol: When I was younger, I loved walking in the rain (the air/temperature was warmer though :lol:) and when it rained, it poured. That is so much fun :!: Nothing like the "normal" rain in the London which can go on for like 4-5 days (and I am not exaggerating :shock: ), just dripping as opposed to pouring :( Ah yes, the joys of being soaked to the bone (note, I did not say to the skin :wink:) in a warm climate :D

[Kitty]

I think the 27 vs. 3 was from someone's BALLET class, not ballroom or salsa.

no, thats NYU ballroom dance team. ;-)

[tsb]

I'm hoping to head out soon, if the torrential downpours ever stop. It's been pouring, lightnening and thundering for the past three hours. Water's running in the streets. The last time I went out dancing in this (expletive deleted) I got so wet that I ended up having absolutely no fun. Soaked to the skin is no way to start the evening. :?

we've had 100 degree weather most of the week here.

[DanceMentor]

Oh darn, it looks like I missed out on the fun. :lol:
I seems everybody made up ... hugs, kisses, etc.

Reading the thread topic, the first thing that came to mind were those ladies who say, "If the guy can lead, I can dance anything". There have been several times where I have encountered such a lady, and when I took her out to dance, she was constantly ahead of me and stiff (and also another was too loose and couldn't read my lead).

[DancePoet]

DanceMentor:

Seems I missed out on whatever the reply was, too! But I was out dancing, and I had tons of fun! And I promise ... I wasn't too serious. ;)

[salsachinita]

Boy, DID I miss out on participating on this thread :shock: ! Due to time zone & salsa, I simply couldn't be here when things were happening :roll: !

In probably 90% of the classes, clubs and dances I've been to, the men outnumber the women. Sometimes by ridiculous amounts.

*Mental Note to Self: Move to San Francisco :wink: *

....hey, ALL you salseros living in lead-heavy cities, we NEED you here in Melbourne! It's one of the most livable cities in the world, with a great dance scene (salsa, ballroom & swing too)!

* :lol: that was my hijack of the day :lol: *

[cocodrilo]

In probably 90% of the classes, clubs and dances I've been to, the men outnumber the women. Sometimes by ridiculous amounts.

*Mental Note to Self: Move to San Francisco :wink: *

....hey, ALL you salseros living in lead-heavy cities, we NEED you here in Melbourne! It's one of the most livable cities in the world, with a great dance scene (salsa, ballroom & swing too)!

Salsachinita-
If you add that you also have some of the BEST WINE IN THE WORLD, you just might get some takers!!!! :D

[jon]

The last time I went out dancing in this (expletive deleted) I got so wet that I ended up having absolutely no fun. Soaked to the skin is no way to start the evening. :?

Gene Kelly might disagree :-)

[tsb]

The last time I went out dancing in this (expletive deleted) I got so wet that I ended up having absolutely no fun. Soaked to the skin is no way to start the evening. :?

Gene Kelly might disagree :-)

nah. he was on his way home.

[etchuck]

Bring an extra set of clothes and change when you get to the dancehall. As long as you're not expected to dance in the rain, but if you are... oh well.

If we wanted to start up a thread of music dealing with rain that one can dance to. "Singin' in the Rain" would be a nice foxtrot. "Rock me like a hurricane"... I'd have to think about that. ;)

[Genesius Redux]

If we wanted to start up a thread of music dealing with rain that one can dance to. "Singin' in the Rain" would be a nice foxtrot.

Oh, man, etchuck--I wouldn't dare dance to "Singin in the Rain." The only viable reinterpretation of that song has been by Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange. Could you imagine trying to compete to that tune, and have everyone in the ballroom thinking about Gene Kelly? :oops:

[Sagitta]

If we wanted to start up a thread of music dealing with rain that one can dance to. "Singin' in the Rain" would be a nice foxtrot.

Oh, man, etchuck--I wouldn't dare dance to "Singin in the Rain." The only viable reinterpretation of that song has been by Malcolm McDowell in A Clockwork Orange. Could you imagine trying to compete to that tune, and have everyone in the ballroom thinking about Gene Kelly? :oops:

But it is a very lovely foxtrot!! :(

[jon]

If we wanted to start up a thread of music dealing with rain that one can dance to.

Trickle Trickle by Manhattan Transfer (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000032VC/104-4934330-4070340?v=glance). A bit fast but a decent ECS.

Thematic DJ sets can be fun. A friend put together the "Lindy Food" tape (Ain't Nobody Here But Us Chickens, A Chicken Ain't Nothin' But A Bird, Everybody Eats When They Come To My House, etc.)

[etchuck]

Compete to "Singin' in the Rain"... well, probably not. But I'm sure we could do worse and have someone cover that tune for competitive purposes. In fact, I'm sure someone must have.

Then again, I would dare to play all the tracks on the Tanz Orchestra Klaus Hallen CD "Musicals"... gosh those covers are truly odd.

[tsb]

dionne warwick's "the windows of the world" slow latin

[salsachinita]

:? hmmmmm......another completely & utterly hijacked thread...........

[Genesius Redux]

Oh, but it was a silly thread. :lol:

[pygmalion]

True. I very good candidate for highjacking! :wink: :D

[Dancegal]

Back on the topic - when it comes to dancing, I will not bother to learn a particular dance or attend a particular dance class if:

1) it is a dance not done socially on a regular basis where I live, apart from a dance studio (with all due respect this being a ballroom topic: that is why I don't do ballroom). Why learn a dance if there will be noone to dance it with later?
2) if the class consists of patterns that are not necessarily leadable - been there, done that, never did the pattern again
3) if I don't like the music (cumbia, zydeco fall in that category)
4) if I perceive the particular dance is a little too intimate for social dancing (dancing with everyone vs. one partner/SO). Tango falls in this category. I realize this is just selective perception - I like salsa, merengue, and blues dancing.