The combination lock

[Ampster]

A combination lock only needs 3 numbers to make it work. Each 3 numbers come from the integers of 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Its the combination of these 3 numbers from the 10 integers that make each combination lock unique.

What does this have to do with Argentine Tango, you may ask? Well, as a leader, this is a lesson I had to learn myself through trial and error.

You do not have to collect and memorize so many steps that you can't do yourself, let alone lead.

Rather, master at least three simple ones that you can do really well (e.g. the walk, an ocho, a giro). Do them right, make them look good. Then, like the combination lock, shuffle them around as the music dictates. Modify their delivery and speed with pauses and hesitations. Suddenly, your 3 can be delivered 10 different ways each. That makes 30 variations of steps you can use. Shuffle their delivery, of course, as the music dictates. That gives you 90 combinations all based on the original three.

Your partner, can read it because you lead it well. She'll enjoy and appreciate that. She won't get bored if you do the simple stuff well to the music, even if you're only using variations of 3 combinations.

You evolve from being a "step collector" to someone who dances tango dynamically. As you get better, progressively add another simple step, and repeat the process. If my math is right, I think the possible combinations based on three is 27,000... Can you imagine the possibilities?

[Aurora]

May I add something?

As a follower, I don't need lots of combinations of steps to have a good time. In fact, I have a fairly short memory while dancing. I may noticed if one step is repeated many times in a row (e.g. ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho ... as I start wondering, "When will I be able to walk straight again?") but do not need constantly new steps to enjoy a dance. Unless you always do a certain step right after another one, I probably won't notice if you use them again. Really, truly, I don't need the full barrage of steps to enjoy myself. I have been known to come off the floor with a big smile after just walking and ochos, maybe with some ocho cortados included.

[newbie]

I can see the point but the practical implementation fails too often.

I once tried to lead a back, circular boleo (the mother of all boleos) on five beats, two to go up, three to come down. It worked, the lady's heel reached its apogee after two beats and was back on the ground after three more beats. Days later I tried the same with another lady, she was up after two beats but down at beat four, not at beat 5. She recognized a slow boleo but, applying heuristics, came back down at the same speed. Lady #1 was Carolina (formerly Fabian's), lady #2 was a local teacher. With my usual partners I'm getting just random results, from changing weight to back boleo/front boleo on the same beat.

So, unless you're only dancing with CITA teachers, you can vary the basic elements only to a certain extent.

[cornutt]

So I looked into this thread because I wanted to see what kind of step a "combination lock" was... :mrgreen:

[sambagirl]

May I add something?

As a follower, I don't need lots of combinations of steps to have a good time. In fact, I have a fairly short memory while dancing. I may noticed if one step is repeated many times in a row (e.g. ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho, ocho ... as I start wondering, "When will I be able to walk straight again?") but do not need constantly new steps to enjoy a dance. Unless you always do a certain step right after another one, I probably won't notice if you use them again. Really, truly, I don't need the full barrage of steps to enjoy myself. I have been known to come off the floor with a big smile after just walking and ochos, maybe with some ocho cortados included.

Another follower agrees! Dancing to the music is far more important than dancing lots of difficult steps led badly. What I can't stand more than anything is feeling like I am only a prop for the leader to demonstrate his step vocabulary, with no regard for what we are hearing. The best dances I had in BsAs consisted of very simple steps in amazing embraces -- I felt like I was floating around on the floor to the music and could just relax and enjoy myself.

[bastet]

Another follower agrees! Dancing to the music is far more important than dancing lots of difficult steps led badly. What I can't stand more than anything is feeling like I am only a prop for the leader to demonstrate his step vocabulary, with no regard for what we are hearing. The best dances I had in BsAs consisted of very simple steps in amazing embraces -- I felt like I was floating around on the floor to the music and could just relax and enjoy myself.


follower number 3 agrees.

As my main teacher says..."you don't need lots of complicated steps...but you do need variety"...and so I am pretty sure I understand the point Ampster is attempting to make.

Taking some simple steps, and then tearing them apart and reusing them in new and interesting ways might be a better option than becoming a step collector, who, as has been said, will more likey be attempting complicated stuff half way well, rather than being exemplary at leading intruiging combinations of simpler steps that can easily reorganized or have the timing adjusted.

[UnfamiliarSameness]

And follower number 4 agrees too :)
Simple steps exploring and accenting the rhythm or melody ... dancing that allows me to hear, feel and share the music with the leader....to relax and enjoy the tango as one....what's not to love.

"feeling like I am only a prop for the leader " This is the worst feeling ever.

To me the only truly "bad dances" I've experienced are the ones where I've felt a mere adjunct to some twit's ego. (And that's no matter how well he is leading.)

[Dave Bailey]

You do not have to collect and memorize so many steps that you can't do yourself, let alone lead.

Rather, master at least three simple ones that you can do really well (e.g. the walk, an ocho, a giro).
I'd agree but I'd break it down even further.

Learn to lead a pivot, a sidestep and a cross. That gives you all those combinations, plus many others. In fact, that gives you almost everything.

[Zoopsia59]

And follower number 4 agrees too :)
)


Yeah... alll the followers agree.

Now how can we convince our local leaders that this is the case?

[Dave Bailey]

Yeah... alll the followers agree.

Now how can we convince our local leaders that this is the case?
Go on strike until they do it right :)

[UnfamiliarSameness]

Yeah... alll the followers agree.

Now how can we convince our local leaders that this is the case?

I wonder if all follower's do agree though...I sometimes think "step collecting" isn't just the preserve of leaders...I once heard a follower dismiss a really lovely, very musically gifted beginner because "he doesn't know anything, so what's the point". :confused:


Originally by DavidBailey
Go on strike until they do it right :smile:

Go on strike LOL

I think maybe the best way to encourage leaders is to compliment them when it's good...postive reinforcement teehee. And there's always humour with one guy I know really well I'll sometimes joke "Just let me know when you want me to join in". We both have a laugh.

Amspter said "You evolve from being a "step collector" to someone who dances tango dynamically". Maybe it's a necessary progression that all tango dancers have to go through.

[bastet]

Go on strike until they do it right :)

hmmm....maybe so....

[bastet]

Amspter said "You evolve from being a "step collector" to someone who dances tango dynamically". Maybe it's a necessary progression that all tango dancers have to go through.

I'm beginning to think that is the case for the majority of people. Not all, but quite a few seem to want to pass through that phase first....

[bastet]

"feeling like I am only a prop for the leader " This is the worst feeling ever.

To me the only truly "bad dances" I've experienced are the ones where I've felt a mere adjunct to some twit's ego. (And that's no matter how well he is leading.)


ain't that the truth

[UnfamiliarSameness]

I'm beginning to think that is the case for the majority of people. Not all, but quite a few seem to want to pass through that phase first....

Yeah I agree. I really don't know why that is ...

Maybe because it takes time +patience to truly get to know and to really feel + hear the music...so in the meantime you can learn to lead snazzy looking moves "relatively" quickly...subtlety and nuance, perhaps take longer to find.

(Don't think this has to be the case ...I'm more interested in depth rather than breadth...ok that sounds dodgy but hopefully you get what I mean :)...but then I'd like to be tangoing into my old age...I'm not in a race to get good fast.)

[Ampster]

Yeah I agree. I really don't know why that is ...

Maybe because it takes time and energy to really get to know, to truly feel and hear the music...and in the meantime you can learn to lead snazzy looking moves "relatively" quickly...subtley and nuance take longer to find perhaps.

In my case... When I started AT, I didn't know any better. I was thinking in the ballroom paradigm wherein yo had Bronze, silver, and gold moves. The more moves you knew, the better you were. I did not understand the concept of "Connection." I didn't understand the concept that in AT, you dance for you, and your partner. I was dancing to look good. I also did not understand real tango music. I was looking for regular beats.

[UnfamiliarSameness]

Thanks Ampster, I think what you say is true..the music is hard, the idea of connection is hard, getting to understand that looking good and feeling good in tango aren't necessarily the same thing..... tango is tough..but worth it :)

(Can I just add that if anyone gets the chance - Go to Joaquin Amenabar's musicality for dancer's workshops. Fantastic! Completely opens up the music and perfect for beginners and as well as more experienced dancers. IMO it would totally re inforce all the points made here....about simplicity + musicality versus steps and snazzy moves.)

[tangonuevo]

I can see the point but the practical implementation fails too often...

So, unless you're only dancing with CITA teachers, you can vary the basic elements only to a certain extent.

I won't go quite this far, but I too find, for example, that simple rhythmic variations in the basic steps can easily yield random results. This happened just last night when I was playing with the rhythms, lead a single double time step (which felt right to me for the music) and my partner did a second (unlead) nearly pulling me to the floor. I apologized for my poor lead and her reply was, "No, I felt you going back into the rhythm after only one quick step, but everybody leads two in a row, so I just stepped a second time."

This occurs with traspie, with the extended (slowed down) movements that newbie describes, and other "incorrect" versions of the basic steps. So, in my opinion, the combination lock approach is not necessarily easy unless one is leading only the most basic versions of the steps or one is dancing with experienced follows. I don't see it as a panacea by any means.

[bastet]

I won't go quite this far, but I too find, for example, that simple rhythmic variations in the basic steps can easily yield random results. This happened just last night when I was playing with the rhythms, lead a single double time step (which felt right to me for the music) and my partner did a second (unlead) nearly pulling me to the floor. I apologized for my poor lead and her reply was, "No, I felt you going back into the rhythm after only one quick step, but everybody leads two in a row, so I just stepped a second time."

This occurs with traspie, with the extended (slowed down) movements that newbie describes, and other "incorrect" versions of the basic steps. So, in my opinion, the combination lock approach is not necessarily easy unless one is leading only the most basic versions of the steps or one is dancing with experienced follows. I don't see it as a panacea by any means.

so you basically led slow-quick slow? Wouldn't that have put you dancing on the upbeat? I can understand her confusion...it doesn't generally feel very good to most follows I talked with to be dancing off the downbeat (at least not for long, and even then it probably works best with Biagi with his accenting the upbeat so much), that's why QQS works so well because the 2 double time beats use up one slow downbeat and so you still end up on the music at the end of it...maybe I am just not understanding you though...I've just had it driven home to me too many times in my lessons with my masters that quicks are used in pairs for the very reason I spoke of above...

[tangonuevo]

so you basically led slow-quick slow? Wouldn't that have put you dancing on the upbeat? ...
I don't recall the music, but it was traditional. There was a phrase, repeated a couple of times, that felt like slow slow quick pause (for a quick) slow. It was essentially a double quick, but I intended the second step to be zero length with no weight transfer, which is what I tried to lead. However, she stepped instead of pausing 'cause that's apparently what many leads tend to do.

Indeed, I do not as a rule dance a series of slows on the upbeat. That would confuse me as well as my partner!

[Steve Pastor]

If you want to challenge yourself musically, try "stepping on" the unaccented beats in the music. Or try dancing the 2 in vals (that one is from Cahco Dante).
Since you will also be challenging your partner(s) when you take it on the floor, you might want to save this stuff for your more musical partners.
I have a bad? habit of challenging both myself and my partners. I hate it when I get stuck in a rut doing things the same way over and over again. I have annoyed many partners with this, even though it's little stuff like simply turning the other way when I've been going mostly one way. (And no, I don't do this with everyone.)
On the other hand I've seen many smiles, too.

Yeah, definately compliment someone who is doing the right thing (by which I mean musically, not textbook/dogmatic/you aren't doing what everyone else does) if they are using the music!

[bafonso]

I don't recall the music, but it was traditional. There was a phrase, repeated a couple of times, that felt like slow slow quick pause (for a quick) slow. It was essentially a double quick, but I intended the second step to be zero length with no weight transfer, which is what I tried to lead. However, she stepped instead of pausing 'cause that's apparently what many leads tend to do.

Indeed, I do not as a rule dance a series of slows on the upbeat. That would confuse me as well as my partner!

It's a catch 22. You both need to be together in order to play with dynamics. You need to make sure you're right there with her and she needs to feel that in order to let go of pre-conceived steps. Also, both need good balance..