Fancy moves: the sign of a good dancer or a show off?

[MadamSamba]

I was at a milonga on the weekend and saw some pretty fancy dancing, but some of the most impressive was the simple, elegant tango that remained consistent throughout the evening despite the very, very confined space.

There were dancers doing amazing, impressive, whiz-bang stuff, but many were just showing off. As with any dance style, you could tell a mile away who was good without them having to do anything overly flash.

It got me thinking, just because you know fancy moves, is that any reason to use them?

[Flat Shoes]

It got me thinking, just because you know fancy moves, is that any reason to use them?

Oh yeah!

If you can execute them well, great!
If you can't its still great fun to try ... now and then.

Dancing is a lot about having fun.

But there are different ways of dancing, often you want that intimite connection between yourself and your partner. Then the fancy stuff might be superfluous. On the other hand, it can be a quite nice feeling that you're mastering something with your partner. It's such a nice feelin when you're doing something complicated and it just flows naturally.

There are times when you should drop the fancy stuff, mainly when it confuses your partner and keeps disprupting the dance.

[cocodrilo]

If you can execute complicated moves well, and ENJOY doing them, sure, why not? Simplicity is "safe" for a lot of folks, then again others like to stand out, be original, which could be interpreted as "showing off" depending on your perspective. I enjoy watching people do new, amazing stuff and give them credit for going where no one else dares to go, and perhaps being seen as show-offs(which we all are at some point in our dance careers- admit it!!! 8) )

[Flat Shoes]

I only think of people as show-offs if it's obvious they aren't connecting with their partner.

Usually I enjoy watching people pulling of some cool moves. 8)

It can also be just as enjoyable watching a couple who are totally into each other and you know they've got that good stuff flowing between them :)

[cocodrilo]

I only think of people as show-offs if it's obvious they aren't connecting with their partner.

Usually I enjoy watching people pulling of some cool moves. 8)

It can also be just as enjoyable watching a couple who are totally into each other and you know they've got that good stuff flowing between them :)

Yeah, it's kind of callous if one partner starts to do all the whizz-bangin', leaving his/her other half to kinda do basic steps & wonder what the heck's goin' on. Been there & done that :evil:

[bordertangoman]

I think the 'fancy moves' have to go with the music.

I see morons adding them in to steady rhythmic tangos with no sense of the music or timing.

I like doing ganchos and sacadas but only if the music inspires me and I have space enough to dance them without risk of injury to someone else.

But there are plenty of other ways to 'play' with your partner if you have the skill

[MadamSamba]

Yeah, good points, all. I love fancy-pants moves, but, certainly in Argentine tango, don't ever feel confident enough to whack one in. And you're all right about not executing them unless 1) it's in time with the music and your partner and 2) you're not doing it for the sake of showing off, but to enhance the dance...

[Genesius Redux]

And you're all right about not executing them unless 1) it's in time with the music and your partner and 2) you're not doing it for the sake of showing off, but to enhance the dance...

I dunno--I wouldn't want to open up a window into someone's soul when judging their dancing. Heck, I'm not even sure I'd want to judge their dancing.

What's wrong with showing off? That's what performance is. And dance is a performance--even social dance. We spend entirely too much time in our contemporary culture telling people to control themselves or try to be unobtrusive. Dancing should be about opening up.

So if you're learning cool new steps, I'd say go for broke and try them out. How else are you going to know how to use them?

Subtlety comes with experience. Once people have been dancing for several years, they'll learn how to be simple and elegant. To try to rein someone in too much when they're first starting out is counter-productive. You can always rein someone in. Drawing someone out is another matter....

[LadyLeader]

I have been reading older postings - there is quite a lot fantastic information you guys have shared during the years.

It seems the dance community has changed the values during the years and this kind of statements I have not seen lately ( but I have 70 unread pages of threads to go)


But there are different ways of dancing, often you want that intimite connection between yourself and your partner. Then the fancy stuff might be superfluous. On the other hand, it can be a quite nice feeling that you're mastering something with your partner. It's such a nice feelin when you're doing something complicated and it just flows naturally.

There are times when you should drop the fancy stuff, mainly when it confuses your partner and keeps disprupting the dance.

I have been reevaluating this lately because of a balboa video where people around the dancing couple were cheering joyfully the dancing.
I am hovering around these questions:

When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?
When is it appropriate for an ordinary dancer to joyfully show off?

[UKDancer]

I am hovering around these questions:

When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?
When is it appropriate for an ordinary dancer to joyfully show off?

Easy for me (the question, not the complicated figures!):

When the figure fits the mood, the music and the space, and when it can be executed with ease, good taste and a degree of panache.
As 1.

[AndaBien]

...
When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?
When is it appropriate for an ordinary dancer to joyfully show off?



If you enjoy figures because they are complicated, it's appropriate to do them whenever you feel like it, as long as it does not interfere with other dancers.
You can show off whenever you want to, as long as you do not interfere with other dancers.
If you show off, you deserve to be judged, as a dancer and as a person, by whomever you are showing off for.

I define showing off as displaying ones dance skills for the benefit of ones own ego. Nothing wrong with that.

[opendoor]

..When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?

Hi LadyLeader, that is a very personal, lets say intimate question.

First, what is complicated? For a great number of dancers just plain walking in close embrace will be very difficult. For me planeos or enrosques on the left leg are the most difficult thing, because I had a knee accident last year.

So it comes to the second aspect, when to enjoy. Tango is a challenge and when you have reached the goals you set yourself, than you may enjoy it.

[samina]

I have been reading older postings - there is quite a lot fantastic information you guys have shared during the years.

It seems the dance community has changed the values during the years and this kind of statements I have not seen lately ( but I have 70 unread pages of threads to go)
nice to see a new member reading through the old postings. the community here has definitely changed over the years...and there is some very good stuff archived when different forum members were active.

please continue sharing your ideas & mining the old threads! :)

[Steve Pastor]

I have been reevaluating this lately because of a balboa video where people around the dancing couple were cheering joyfully the dancing.
I am hovering around these questions:

When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?
When is it appropriate for an ordinary dancer to joyfully show off?

The swing scene, including Balboa, Shag, Lindy Hop, etc is very unlike the AT scene. The idea of couples taking turns "in the middle" can be traced back to Africa, although the same thing happened among common folk of European extraction. It's that old over arching category we love to mention - "ballroom" - in the historical, polite society sense where "don't be a show off it's in bad taste" comes from.
Swing is not ballroom (balboa isn't either, really, probably, (SKippy Blair changed her mind about it) I'm just including in that "scene").

Neither is AT, but when AT went to Europe, then back again, it lost much of the African flavor it had had.

So, that's my take on the group watching someone in the middle, which isn't really so much about showing off. " "Everybody would stand around and put them in the middle. You know, it was a showcase kind of thing." .... contributed to the vibrancy of African American social dance... "From Huckebuck to Hip Hop" quoting dancers from Philadelphia.

When is it appropriate for an ordinary dancer to joyfully show off?
At Swing events and .... LINE DANCING!!!

A bit more seriously, though, if you are thinking of it as showing off, maybe that's not so good.
If you think of it as doing what you know how to do, and you aren't interfering with anyone else, etc., I think it's OK.

There are a few AT songs that feature someone rapping sharply on something for several beats two of three times during a song. If I feel good with my partner (good connection, pretty sure she won't be embaressed (I know a few!), I will rap my heels on the floor along with that musical accent. That is an actual AT thing, and I could find a reference whatever that is worth. BUT... if I was at an ultra conservative milonga somewhere, I would be very likely to NOT do it. (which is why I haven't gone to a milonga in years.

When is it appropriate to enjoy complicated figures?
I think you can do this anytime you can do them without interferring with other dancers, and hopefully in concert with the music. After all "complicated figures" are just single steps strung together, which is probably the best way to think of them.
I'd say, ALWAYS be flexible about changing or aborting ANY figure if you are going to impact other dancers.

[opendoor]

..The idea of couples taking turns "in the middle" can be traced back to Africa, although the same thing happened among common folk of European extraction. ...

Reminds me a little bit of that birthday waltzes (dont know if you have that habit too) The guys (or girls) line up to get the birthday child to do some fancy stuff on the dance floor one by one (kind of self-display)...

[twnkltoz]

Whenever I'm watching someone do fancy, complicated figures, and they're doing it well and to the music and with their partner, I always view it as a treat to watch rather than them showing off. If I'm lucky enough to be the one they're doing it to and I manage to follow all of it without too much stress, all the better.

However, I had a partner once try a whole bunch of nuevo stuff, one move after the other, and I didn't get half of it but he kept trying it anyway. That was him showing off, pure and simple. I will endeavor not to ever dance with him again.

There's a theory about west coast swing dancers, but it really applies to AT and BR, too. Beginners do basics. Intermediate dancers do a lot of moves. Advanced dancers do basics...very, very well. Give me the first or the last!

[Gssh]

My rule of tumb is that a "fancy move" is ok as soon as i don't think of it as a fancy move anymore.

It is difficult to classify moves as fancy anyway, because a lot of the things that look fancy are actually quite straightforward - like most saccadas, and require just a few hours of practice to figure out the geometry, while some of the most boring moves, like e.g the cross are really, really difficult to pull off with clean technique.

Gssh

[UKDancer]

There's a theory about west coast swing dancers, but it really applies to AT and BR, too. Beginners do basics. Intermediate dancers do a lot of moves. Advanced dancers do basics...very, very well. Give me the first or the last!

Agreed, 100%. (I'm looking forward to doing them moderately well, for now...)

[Zoopsia59]

My rule of tumb is that a "fancy move" is ok as soon as i don't think of it as a fancy move anymore.

I agree... if I don't think of it as "fancy" when I'm dancing, that means it fit and flowed just like a "basic" move. If it feels "fancy" when I danced it, that means I probably got distracted from dancing and had to think about "the move" for whatever reason.

As for watching others... I attend more practicas than milongas these days, so badly executed "fancy" moves are expected... how else does one become proficient at a move? I'd rather see awkward struggling that still takes into account the rest of the people on the floor than well executed, beautiful moves that are oblivious to the fact that they are interfering with others (which happens at our practicas)

And to be honest, that holds true for milongas as well. I'd rather see someone struggling with a move while still paying attention to floorcraft than watch even the most elegant skilled dancers be floor hogs.

To me, someone has crossed the line into "showing off" when they dance selfishly. It doesn't matter what moves they are doing. By definition, if you are dancing with consideration for others, you aren't showing off, because showing off is all about the self. (or the "self" of the couple)

[sixela]

If it feels "fancy" when I danced it,

A really good fancy move is one which only feels fancy (i.e. surprising, not what you'd have expected) after you danced it impeccably without realising it. If it feels fancy while you're dancing it,...