How Many Entries At Competition?

[Purr]

How many entries are average for a first time competitor? Or for a second time bronze competitor?

[Chris Stratton]

Do you want to know how many are average, or how many are a good idea?

How many can you afford?

How do your fixed costs to attend the competition compare to what it is going to cost you per dance?

What kind of shape are you and your teacher (or partner, but I'm assuming pro-am) in? How many dances will you be able to do and still enjoy them, still dance well?

How many different styles? To what degree do you want to do the same dances in multiple divisions or age categories?

[Purr]

I'm looking for an average of how many dances most people do at the first couple of competitions, and a number of how many dances are a good idea. So the answer is both. :D

[tasche]

Ok it seems to me thats a lot of dances to be doing at one comp. Is that typical? I dont know

[mamboqueen]

Wow! That is quite a bit of dances! I'm doing my second comp and I'm only doing 14! I just wonder what real benefit you get out of doing 67?

[pygmalion]

I did twenty at my first comp;the other ladies at my studio did ten. I don't think either was enough. Next time around, I'll do thirty, but I think anything much more than that becomes about making money for the teacher or about accumulating points to win some pointless prize, rather than about dancing well and staying warm.

[spatten]

I know first time competitiors that have done 100 entries and I know some that did 6. Both of the ladies I am thinking of danced Pro/Am and both loved their competition experience.

Clearly a large part of the equation is how much you can/want to afford.
Also, to dance in the scholarships, a certain number of dances is usually required. From what I have seen the scholarships offer the best competition.

INHO, at some point there is a good bit of diminishing returns. It won't take any judge 67 entries to asses your dancing. I am not a big fan of dancing scads of uncontested heats - but some women enjoy it. You just have to decide where your goals and your diminishing returns meet. Perhaps saving some of those entries from one comp would be better spent on another comp after you have worked through some of the things you didn't perfect.

Scott

[cl5814]

I just talked with a few competitors over the weekend and they are doing 30-40 events per competition. It really depends on the Pro - some Pro's compete with 3-5 students per competition. Sorry, don't know what level they are competing at but most of them were doing at least 3 competitions between now and August.

[pygmalion]

If you had up front information about how the heats would be structured, you could minimize. The reason I think you should do a lot of heats (within reason) is that dancing a lot keeps you warmed up and ready to go. That philosophy can be taken way too far, though. I've also seen people do 100 heats in one day. By the end, they didn't appear to be enjoying the experience, and watching them wasn't fun either.

It's a balance. Your question, Purr, makes me think that 67 was too much for you.

Oh, yeah, and did you know that pro-am instructors mark up the price of each heat? and it varies from studio to studio. In any given heat, you might be on the floor with people who paid twice as much, or half as much :shock: as you did.

[pygmalion]

btw, I don't want to make it sound as if pro-am instructors shouldn't mark up the cost of heats in competitions. I think they should. They deserve to be paid for the time and effort they're expending on the comp.

But the mark-up is just one more area where unethical studios sometimes take advantage of unsuspecting students. Ask questions.

There are a lot of honest, ethical teachers and dance studios out there -- the majority are honest, I think. There are some bad actors, though, so it pays to be informed, engaged, and asking questions. 8)

[3wishes]

Curiosity doesn't always "kill the cat" - question for the am/student.
And maybe this has been answered in a different thread, so forgive me, my search technique is not always on the money per se if this is a repeat question. And the question is very simple - in your am/student experience of competition(s) what was the maximum number of heats you registered to dance? and why? what was the least amount of heats you registered to dance and why?
Thanks to all!;)

[etp777]

Least was 12, first competition. Only do 7 dances, and they didn't have mambo at beginner/newcomer level, so I just did other 6 twice each (because first always stinks, second is better. At least in theory :) ).

Most I've done is still only 30. Or 31 if you count the showcase. Same type of thing. 7 Dances, twice each with pro and buddy teacher, and then an open Chacha with each of them. My minimum is generally twice per dance, maximum (31 here) is whatever wallet can handle. I know people at my second studio doing 100-200 heats at every competition, but my bank account can't handle that.

[fascination]

I dance pro/am...not sure if that is what you are after...my least number was my first comp wherein I only knew smooth...I danced two levels and the scholarship just for kicks and giggles...so that would be 8 and a multi...at that juncture I simply didn't have the skill to do more...as time went by, the most I have danced at a comp was upward of 140 leaning toward 180 at two comps last year when I was with a very inexpensive pro and we were trying to ...lol...get noticed...while I am exceedingly fit, that was definately the outer limit...I think I can dance 100 quite well without the quality going down...much beyond that, it starts getting tired...though it is all irrelevant now b/c that sort of dancing would be too cost prohibitive with current pro...I would say I now never dance more than 90 but never less than 50...if I am going to travel and drop coin to go to a comp, I don't like sitting around twiddling my thumbs....and we currently find it smarter to do fewer comps so that the money isn't all about accomodations, but more about the dancing...looks to me like this year it will be about 7 comps @500 events... single or multi...each person has to make their own decisions depending upon their own income, stamina, schedule flexibility...for me that is what the wallet can bear...I hope...but, if money were no object, I would do 1-2 comps a month at 100 to 120 heats a comp...maybe someday ;)

[etp777]

but, if money were no object, I would do 1-2 comps a month at 100 to 120 heats a comp...maybe someday ;)

That sounds about right to me. :)

[fascination]

note...I am aware that I have taken leave of my sanity...but that is my honest, on topic, answer...I am certain that other numbers will be less...extreme

[etp777]

Makes sense to me, and sounds just about right, if time and money allowed, as mentioned. Do comps once or twice a month, gives you time for coachings, post comp cleanups, etc. Esp if you can get them two weekends in a row, then have two week block for all the other work. That would be my ideal. And preferably cheering on pros from my two studios during pro events of those comps. :)

[Laura]

Most I've ever done is 10 single dance heats plus a scholarship. The least I've ever done is 5 single dance heats. What I usually do is 5 single dance heats, the DanceSport Series event if there is one, and the scholarship (if it is separate from the DanceSport Series event).

The most it would be possible for me to do, due to my age and level and the fact that I only dance one style, would be 20 single dance heats. If I were under 35 I'd only be able to do 10.

[fascination]

Makes sense to me, and sounds just about right, if time and money allowed, as mentioned. Do comps once or twice a month, gives you time for coachings, post comp cleanups, etc. Esp if you can get them two weekends in a row, then have two week block for all the other work. That would be my ideal. And preferably cheering on pros from my two studios during pro events of those comps. :)I confess that I would probably eventually find every 2 weeks to be too hectic and somewhat insane but I suspect I would have to learn it the hard way:rolleyes:...probably once a month or every three weeks is the most...particularly IMV since there is real merit to getting better between comps, while not wanting to have such a gap as to get rusty about competing...for me, anyhow

[etp777]

You're probably right, but I'd sure like the opportunity to try twice a month.

[danceronice]

Most I've ever done at one competition (and spread out over 4 days) was 27 heats at OSB last year, where I did all four styles--two levels of Rhythm and Smooth, one of Standard, and two levels of Int. Cha Cha and Jive. LEAST I've ever done at a competition is probably...12 at my first competition, two levels of CC-R-SW and W-T-F.

[Laura]

I like competing about once a month.

[ChaChaMama]

Fewest heats
Am: 1 (but it is usually multi-dance)
Pro-am: 6 (5 singles and scholarship)

Most heats
Am: 7? Back when we were first starting, we did rhythm, and went to an NDCA comp where they had single dances. I think we did American style cha-cha, samba, rumba, swing, mambo, west-coast swing, and merengue.
Pro-am: 6 (See above).

If TIME and money were infinite, I would want to do latin and standard. I would probably want to average a comp per month, split between amateur and pro-am.
[Actually, I am going to wind up averaging a comp a month in the first 4 months of this year: MAC, Eastern, USA Dance Nationals, Philly. No standard, though.]

[WorksForShoes]

As an am/am partnership, our least was 6 single dance heats (W/T/F in two levels at our first comp). That was actually plenty, because I am the kind of person who can get overloaded with logistics pretty easily (so I needed time to figure out warm up, on-deck, etc.), plus it is an awful lot to expect a newcomer male (DH/DP) to remember a lot of routines to lead.

Now, we do as many as we can until we run into either financial or ability constraints. So, the basic American style 9, usually in 2 levels, plus whatever multi-dances we qualify for. Sometimes the ancillary dances (like Merengue, salsa, samba) that we like. We are working on adding standard.

There are some personal considerations that I think come into play for us. For one, we tend to only dance something that is meaningful to us. That is, if you can dance three levels in one age, then yes, we could dance pre-bronze merengue, but it may not be all that meaningful to us. So that is a good place to cut. Also, I do tend to like to have some free time at a comp because it usually also functions as a weekend away for DH and I. So, it usually isn't a problem, but I would be unlikely to sign up for a random event that is held at a time that is not clumped with the rest of our entries. (So, and again, unlikely, if American rhythm bronze freestyle is Friday morning, and the only amateur rhythm multidance is on Sunday morning, I'm not likely to get up again at the crack of dawn to put on false eyelashes and dance 90 seconds, unless I'm really feeling competitive or we have friends doing the event as well.)

[elisedance]

Pro-am, most - 30 or so; fewest 7 (two multidance so total of 13 dances)
In pro-am I like to do at least one full set of single dance competitions. Then a multidance (say Gold WFT) and cap it off with a schollarship - likely the dancesport series. If there is a separate schollarship I'll do that too. My strategy is to aim for the multidance events - they are almost always contested so you get an idea where you stand in company - and use the preceding single dance events (which are often uncontested) to run through the routines on the competition floor and shed the nerves. [Any comp organizers: I do get upset if the schollarships are held before the singles. It makes the latter rather pointless for me.] If you are going to do more try to space them out a bit. Unless you are as fit as F above, I don't think its fun to do 20 dances in a row..

Am/am we always do two entries - say adult and senior I gold - though I would happily do more. You don't feel so bad if you screw one dance up say as you have two shots....

[NielsenE]

In pro-am, my lowest has been 4. Two single dance entries, one championship, one solo. (Shocked that this comp only required 1 single dance to enter the championship; required two to enter a solo).

I think the most was 55 Single dances and 7 championships at a regional (including some am-am entries mixed in with pro-am). That was back when I was doing both closed and open routines in two styles, plus adding a third style. (Did two closed styles with am-partner as well).

If money wasn't an issue, I'd like to do ~2 single _contested_ singled dance per routine, plus whatever championship/scholarships are offered. To get the two contested ones, I'd probably have to do 3-4 single dance entries to find someone at the regionals.

[Bella]

I like competing about once a month.

Yeah, with pro-am my thoughts exactly. However, with am-am, twice a month.

[elisedance]

Till the current hiatus we (AM) competed about once a month. Pro/am I do a lot less now then I used to - maybe once every 2-3 months (but that also is on hiatus for a while).

[QPO]

We don't get that opportunity, they don't have comps once a month anymore they use to....not enough competitors and not enough people to run them :-(

I like competing about once a month.

[QPO]

We pay an entry fee and can go in as many as we want. It is not charged per event, that would be very limiting, as it is budget driven....

[elisedance]

what a great idea - but I don't think we could adopt that as it would greatly reduce revenue from the pro/ams - or if adjusted for the average number of entries of that set would make the AM events prohibitive.

[cornutt]

I did 45 heats in a comp last year. Fewest, I don't remember. Maybe about 10.

[latingal]

Have always kept entries to around 10 dances (5 singles and scholarship). In my divisions at large comps, I know that will be anywhere from 3-6 rounds if I make the finals. With my routines I would probably fall over and die if I had to do more than that. That and it's expensive when the pro has per dance fees!

[elisedance]

so thats an upside to per-dance billing - its in the pro's financil (as well as obviously other) interest to get to the next round... ;)

[standardgirl]

so thats an upside to per-dance billing - its in the pro's financil (as well as obviously other) interest to get to the next round... ;)

I've never had a pro that charge more than one per dance fees when there are >1 round involved. Rather than calling it a "per dance" fee, I think it's more like a "per entry add-on" price that some pros charge.

Anyone actually had to pay more per dance fee due to multiple rounds?

[Leonid Turetsky]

From doing pro/am comps with my students:
Usually the average number of single dances is between 10-15 dances
Plus: 1 Scholarship or championship

And I know there are some pros/studios who after comps go and calculate how much more the student owes per dance, because she made it far through the dances.

But I believe most pros just charge single fee for scholarship/championship and so anything above 1 round is a bonus.

[elisedance]

But I believe most pros just charge single fee for scholarship/championship and so anything above 1 round is a bonus.

and thats surely how it should be - else its impossible for the student to budget a competition... glad to hear you agree :)

[fascination]

I've never had a pro that charge more than one per dance fees when there are >1 round involved. Rather than calling it a "per dance" fee, I think it's more like a "per entry add-on" price that some pros charge.

Anyone actually had to pay more per dance fee due to multiple rounds?
um...well...I have

[elisedance]

...this activity (sport? hobby?) has a bunch of tough choices...

[Terpsichorean Clod]

:imagining a student dancing badly because he/she can't afford to go to the next round: :razz:

[fascination]

lol...have to say, it doesn't break my heart to dance at a smaller comp anymore...;)

[elisedance]

..or your bank ;)

[3wishes]

Thanks to all for the lively statistical answers I asked on most vs least heats experienced as an am. or student! As for the diversion into entry fee or per dance fee, hmmm, I've dance with my pro(s) (actually I have two for different disciplines) as little as 12 as a beginner with a scholarship and as many as 60 with a scholarship - and they both charged a per entry fee. Not a per dance. When we went through rounds of scholarship and were recalled and made finals - my pro(s) still only charged for the initial entry fee and did not charge more for scholarship afterwards at all -bad form according to them. But WHEW! I have to admit...on average that was 12 more dances than I anticipated and my feet were really ready for a good soak as well as not seeing the sunny face(s) of my teacher(s) for at least two days...ahhhhhhhhh giggle.

[latingal]

I know pros that use one of three different fee methods; per entry dance and/or event, per actual dance (with a minimum $ amount for the day), or a fixed rate for a maximum or unlimited number of entries.

I prefer either the fixed fee or per entry dance and/or event method as a pro-am student. As some others have mentioned, I don't want any surprises in my dance budget because I did well at a comp (and made multiple rounds).

[elisedance]

I know pros that use one of three different fee methods; per entry dance and/or event, per actual dance (with a minimum $ amount for the day), or a fixed rate for a maximum or unlimited number of entries.


You can add one more - no fee. I've mentioned this before but its in context here too - a pro I know charges nothing: no heat fee and no dance fee - and no flat fee either - all he does is split his travel costs between teh students (of which he has many ;)). I talked to him about this and he does it for two reasons - one he feels its time to give something back for all the lessons his students are taking. Indeed, he encourages them to do as many dances as possible - and goes for the top teacher prize :).