Learning Charleston partnering

[jdavidb]

What is the main (most popular) route to go for learing all about Charleston partnering? I'm looking for all of the advanced semi-social lead & follow stuff. Just how big of a dance is this? Is it still Charleston even when it is referred to as "Lindy Charleston", or is there some clear difference in the way it is done?

Don't worry so much about location. Whatever you all do to learn Charleston in your area, let the rest of us in on it :)

[Dame Swing Kitty]

LOL! I was just watching a Charleston video about three hours ago that dealt with this exact subject. Partner Charleston refers to the 20s-style Charleston, sometimes referred to as the 'Roger Rabbit'. This involves a face-to-face basic, with a turn on the balls of the feet as you step. The pattern of the basic is "step, tap, step, tap" with the lead starting on the left foot stepping forward, then tapping with the right foot (touching the toe down but not stepping down), then stepping back with the right foot and tapping with the left foot. You will see this style in the old black and white movies from the twenties. The follow steps in the same pattern, but begins with the right foot stepping back.

Lindy Charleston refers to the Charleston you see more of these days, the 40s- and 50s-style, usually done in tandem or side-by-side. This basic starts with the lead stepping back with the left foot on a rock step on 'one', then kick forward left, kick forward right, step back with right, then back into the rock step. It's 'rock step back (left), kick forward (left), step down(left), kick forward (right), hold (right), kick back (right), rock step back (left)'.

Both are eight-count basics. The Partner style basic starts with lead stepping forward on the left foot on 'one', while the Lindy style basic starts with the lead stepping back in a rock step with the left foot on 'one'.

I find the best teachers to learn from on video are Marcus and Barbl from Germany. The video I was watching today was 'World Of Swing' Volume 6, which is all about Charleston.

Does that help at all?

[jdavidb]

Cool. I kinda figured World of Swing #6 was going to be mentioned. That's an hour & 15 mins on Charleston, right? Does the stuff on that video really seem social or is it more like both people doing choreography?

[Dame Swing Kitty]

Oh, no, it's definitely social. All of it is led. It CAN be introduced into a choreographed routine easily, but that's adapting what was originally intended to be a social dance. The video even talks about the cues the leads need to give for specific moves...

My partner and I are adapting quite a bit of what I watched today specifically for a Charleston routine for our troupe...

[Sagitta]

The lindy charleston is popular in my area. The swing scene is pretty big down here, with Bill Borgida actually teaching swing classes since January, I believe. We have a swing band dance every weekend, socials every Tuesday night, plus weekend workshops a couple times a year. And Marty Lau and Jen Urich are coming down this weekend for lindy and balboa.

I see both tandem and side by side charleston done a lot. And I see this charleston incorporated both with those who do lindy and those who do ECS/jitterbug. Not much of 20's Charleston though. I've never seen charleston done as a separate dance...though...hmmm...

[jdavidb]

You perform in a troupe, 'ey? I do too. The four that I do (in one show) are Waltz, Lindy Hop, Jitterbug and Hustle. I hope that I have a partner ready for a long version of Lindy Hop with a good bit of Charleston by November. That's not the only reason I want to know all about leadable/followable Charleston, but that's a big part of it. We get virtually no rehearsal time, so I stick as close as I can to stuff where I can just pupeteer every little bit of it... a lesson I learned recently during a show on April 2nd.

I'm planning on buying that WoS #6 video once I get paid for this job I'm doing now.

[jdavidb]

I see both tandem and side by side charleston done a lot. And I see this charleston incorporated both with those who do lindy and those who do ECS/jitterbug.

There's also stuff I see in jam videos of moves that are like sliding doors, all kinds of winding around each other. I need to learn all that. I read about eggbeater and windmill on jitterbuzz.com

[Flat Shoes]

Lindy Charleston and 20's charleston look a bit different, but it's the same rythm. When done solo you can easily swittch between the two types of movement without changing rythm.

When dancing the 20's charleston make sure you have shoes that you can twist on without much resistance, if not the constantly twisting may hurt your knees.

When I was in Herräng in '92 we did a solo routine with Peter Loggins (quite good balance training). I think we also did a little bit of partnering up too. So if you can get hold of a copy of the Herräng video for that year, you might find some moves there.

[d nice]

20's Charleston (or Colligiate Charleston ) does not start necessarily with the leader going forward with his left foot on one, he can start going back also with his left, or forward with his right, or back with his right. Colligiate Charleston is a wild and energetic dance... most film footage and most of what is passed on is the more sedate ballroom version. Marcus and Baerbl's tape contains a little of both but it is all danced in the more sedate ballroom style.

Lindy Charelston as mentioned is danced mostly side by side or in tandem and developed in the thirties... it is a subset of lindy hop, part of its original roots, not a seperate dance unto itself.

[jdavidb]

Herräng is in Sweden, and Marcus and Barbl are from Germany. That's pretty cool that we can virtually go abroad to learn American dances.

Lindy Charelston as mentioned is danced mostly side by side or in tandem and developed in the thirties... it is a subset of lindy hop, part of its original roots, not a seperate dance unto itself.

What would be a couple of other subsets of Lindy Hop?

[d nice]

Subsets of lindy hop as in dances that exist within its lexicon but do not necessarily correspond directly to the original?

Charelston, Jig Walk, Fox Trot, Black Bottom, Peabody, Apple Jacks... you could add to that judo, acrobatics, tumbling and a number of other bizarre things.

Lindy Hop is rooted in the Texas Tommy Swing and the Charleston. The jigwalk was added to that as were the verncacular jazz dances the black bottom and apple jacks. Foxtrot and Peabody came in later as did the throws tumbles, lifts and tricks.

[HepcatBob]

... you could add to that judo...
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Lindy Hop is rooted in the Texas Tommy Swing...

Don't let Joe Lanza hear you say that.
:lol: :shock: :doh: :cheers:

[Flat Shoes]

... you could add to that judo...
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Or you might call it some kind of partner gymnastics... :D But it's true, you can very well flip a girl over without her having any choice in the matter. :twisted:

I love aerials by the way! I love lifting and throwing the girls around. I can do a real mean around the back, longer and higher than most. :lol: :bouncy:

Unfortunalty I don't have a partner to train with at the moment. :cry: The scene here is too small, and not enough of the girls like to do aerials (or are built for it :wink:).

[d nice]

Joe can go hang himself out to dry, it's not my fault he doesn't know the history of the dance he claims to dance... 'nuff said.

Aerials are neat, a part of this dances history I don't want to die out... but there are so many people that put getting air over dancing to the music. I'm sick of watching competitors win based on their tricks when their dancing has none of the excitement, danger, or difficulty that their aerials do.

Of course since I'm judging these days hopefully I can exert a little more influence and get some on the edge, bustin' out dancin' to go along with the cool flips, lifts and throws.

[Flat Shoes]

but there are so many people that put getting air over dancing to the music. I'm sick of watching competitors win based on their tricks when their dancing has none of the excitement, danger, or difficulty that their aerials do.


I know, and I agree. But the sad fact is, if I were to get hold of what I consider the ideal partner for me to compete with, I too would cram in too much aerials. Even if I knew you would be judging and I would be losing for doing so. :lol: (Maybe I would be able to restrict myself, but it would be hard.)

It's not that I don't love the rest of the dance, it's just that I thinks aerials are so cool and so much fun to to. 8)

[Swing Kitten]

I think he just means to keep the same spirit and energy in the rest of your dance... so the aerials highlight your dance instead of your dance becoming filler inbetween your aerials ;)

[jdavidb]

On Lindy Hop 2 by Tom & Debra, it says all of this is covered: side-by-Side Charleston, Half-turn Charlestons, 8-count Lawn Mower to get into Back Charleston, Traveling Charleston and exit. I've seen them doing excellent Charleston stuff in many jam videos. Their site is http://www.gottaswing.com/

[Flat Shoes]

On Lindy Hop 2 by Tom & Debra, it says all of this is covered: side-by-Side Charleston, Half-turn Charlestons, 8-count Lawn Mower to get into Back Charleston, Traveling Charleston and exit. I've seen them doing excellent Charleston stuff in many jam videos. Their site is http://www.gottaswing.com/

It seems to me this covers basic Lindy-charleston but not 20's charleston.

[jdavidb]

It seems to me this covers basic Lindy-charleston but not 20's charleston.

Yeah that's what it looks like to me too. I'm interested in both, but I'm slowly getting into the habit of verbally distinguishing between the two.

Back to Marcus & Barbl, here is part of a customer review about their WoS 6 video: However, the second half of the tape abandons the 20s charleston and jumps forward ten years in history to the 1930s to teach the charleston steps that are a part of the lindy hop, an entirely different dance done to swing jazz.

Everyone here has probably seen the clip of Al Minns and Leon James doing a Charleston routine. Here is a link to it for anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.swingpatrol.com.au/videos/clips/16.php

[Flat Shoes]

Everyone here has probably seen the clip of Al Minns and Leon James doing a Charleston routine. Here is a link to it for anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.swingpatrol.com.au/videos/clips/16.php

The very first thing done in this video is the 20's charleston basic (single time) step. This can be done with a partner too in closed position facing each other. But I don't know much about what you can lead from there.

At 46 secs one of the guys are doing a step that is very close to the basic step in Lindy Charleston.

As I said before, these two, the twisting 20's C and the Lindy C, looks different but have the same basic rhythm.

When they join each other they show some partner moves that are part of todays Lindy syllabus.

Quite cool this clip. But unfortunately there's not much 20's charleston as a partner dance. But Marcus & Bärbl have some on their tape. And another guy to look out for is the aforementioned Peter Loggins. Both Marcus and Peter are as far as I know people who have spent a lot of time examining the roots of Lindy and its background.

[pygmalion]

It is a cool clip. The part I like best is near the end when they're dancing together. Now I know where that eighties dance, the Vogue, got copied from. 8)

These guys are cool. :D

[d nice]

There are a lot of people in California that do partnered Charleston (the 20's variety). Peter Loggins is one of the most knowledgable jazz dance historians in the US, a great dancer and teacher.He founded the organization I'm a researcher for, the California Historical Jazz Dance Foundation.

I've got a decent background in this alos. If you have specific questions about the dance and its forms I'd be happy to help. SOme of this of course is hard to break down in text so it can be assimilated and reproduced. So much easier to do in person.

[jdavidb]

I have the Marcus & Barbl Partner and Lindy Charleston video now.

When they conclude the 20's section, Marcus says "there is a lot more to it". So I was thinking: then where do I find all that?

Their part on Lindy Charleston was right there showing stuff I wanted to know.

During the Lindy Charleston section, some of it is stuff that was solo Charleston from the 20's (when they disconnect and dance side by side). I don't know why they didn't point that out. Instead, he says those particular parts have to be choreographed when you do it with a partner. It's an added positive that you don't need a partner to be doing that stuff even though Marcus didn't say so.

I'm glad I bought it because there is a ton of good, useful, popular Lindy Charleston material on there. I see lots of people doing much of what's on this tape in jam videos.