Hustle and Merengue at Ballroom Socials.

[Kitty]

What is you reaction to merengue and hustle at ballroom socials?

I like hustle, but it seems to me it is played much more often than Quickstep and VWaltz and Samba and Jive. So I get annoyed after 5th hustle.
Does majority of peope like hustle more than Samba and VWaltz?

Are you equally proficient in hustle and merengue as you are with ballroom dances? Do you dance every single hustle and merengue? Or do you take a break during that song?

And why do they play those dances so much at ballroom socials? Or is it just around here?

[Sagitta]

Hustle and merengue has been played at the dances the ballroom club has at Cornell. I now know that I know the hustle basic, though I think I did even before hand. I'm not sure if I would dance every such song. I detest most merengues that are played as they are techno one two bass driven songs. The entire flirting nature of the dance is lost and it encourages grinding. However, I'll dance it if I see people who have been sitting around so to give them a dance on the floor. Also, I'll dance it if I want to introduce people to latin dance. As for hustle I don't really love teh music, but don't have strong opinions of the song choice. I usually dance these, again as there often are more followers then leaders, so to give people a turn on the dance floor. Jive is way too jumpy, "ballroomy" for my taste, VW and quickstep I don't know how to do. I do know a little foxtrot, tango, rumba (American and International), cha cha (American).

Interestingly there was a ballroom thread last month where there was some discussion about substituting hustle for one of the American rhythm dances to make the separation between International and American claerer.

[elegance]

We have the occasional merengue and hustle- that's fine. And sometimes country or whatever the current thing is. I'd rather dance ballroom, but quite like hustle, and we use jive/swing moves in both merengue and hustle so it's easy to follow. I know what you mean about too many in a row though. Sometimes the dj seems to get a thing for a particular dance which can be boring whatever it is! And agonizing, personally, if it happens to be Two-step!

[spatten]

Kitty,

I think you just picked my two least favourite dances to do at a social.
About 1 one of each is my limit - but I do enjoy that 1.

Does anyone else feel like Hustle has no connection to the music?
I will sheepishly admit to enjoying Disco music, but why can't they come up with a better pattern that fits the music?

Scott

[Sagitta]

I usually don't like a bunch of the same song type/ dance in a row, with the exception of salsa/mambo.

[cl5814]

We get a good mix of music at the places i frequent. We even have a polka or two during a typical ballroom evening. I noticed that they like to play some 80's music for hustle, we danced to that old song (well, remix) of " i go do do do push my apple shake the tree". Most people got up and danced it. Merengue seem to be less popular, i haven't seen too many group classes for merengue, so i don't think people really know how to dance it.

[spatten]

I usually don't like a bunch of the same song type/ dance in a row, with the exception of salsa/mambo.


One of the main reasons I never got really entrenched in the salsa, argetine tango, or swing scene. Same type of dance, not many times in a row - but all night.

What is it about salsa that you don't mind many times in a row? Guess I never found that.

I don' t even think I could do a waltz (my favourite) all night long - unless it was practicng for comp with a partner.

Scott

PS - I love it when they play a Viennese Waltz at a social scene AND I can find someone who knows it even a little.

[Sagitta]

Merengue seem to be less popular, i haven't seen too many group classes for merengue, so I don't think people really know how to dance it. You need to go for a class for that!! :shock: I don't think so, unless you have no sense of rhythm and cannot let your body relax and respond to the music and the leader.

[etchuck]

Back in the day, they'd play half-hours of merengue at the local club (or now on your local digital cable music channel for S&M (hee hee, salsa and merengue silly)), and we liked it. :?

I'll dance merengue. I'll dance hustle. I think I'm okay though I won't win awards with hustle (aside from the third place of three couples I got a month ago). I'll polka, I'll VW.

As for other people, I think they can handle no more than one or two merengues a night. One or two hustles too. One paso, one polka.

If you have to take a class in merengue, make sure you have a concept of rhythm and patience. And work that hip motion. Really work it.

[mamboqueen]

I detest merengue, but it's the once dance ANYONE can pretty much do. I wouldn't waste money on lessons for it.

I LOVE the hustle. The '70's music is completely my era. The problem that I have is that I have learned more a slot-style hustle and all those lessons really don't come too much in handy because hardly anyone does it that way. It isn't difficult to turn it into what is called "New York" or "freestyle" hustle, though, but it is technically more difficult.

[pygmalion]

Both get played once or twice a night at the ballroom dances here. I use the hustles for bathroom breaks. :shock: :lol: And the merengues for dancing with newbies. :wink:

[Porfirio Landeros]

As for other people, I think they can handle no more than one or two merengues a night. One or two hustles too. One paso, one polka.


I thought Merengue was American Style Paso Doble ;););)

Wow, I rarely hear paso's played at social ballroom dances... maybe only once or twice in my life.

[elegance]

I thought Merengue was American Style Paso Doble


I thought paso doble was "The Angry Merengue"!

[Neil]

Wow, I rarely hear paso's played at social ballroom dances... maybe only once or twice in my life.

Wow, how come? Paso is one of those dances that most older people are familiar with even if they've never danced ballroom. Usually I'll hear one Paso during the dancing after a wedding, banquet, or Christmas party that has a lot of older people. I don't go to a lot of ballroom socials, but I have heard Paso at least a couple times.

[Kitty]

I think you just picked my two least favourite dances to do at a social.
About 1 one of each is my limit - but I do enjoy that 1.

same here. I get bored of them quickly, but they are most often played ones (together with mambo and cha-cha).

Does anyone else feel like Hustle has no connection to the music?
I will sheepishly admit to enjoying Disco music, but why can't they come up with a better pattern that fits the music?

I do feel hustle is not as connected to music as some other dances. And I love the music.
I guess "they" who are supposed to come up with a better pattern are "us".

I think the reason why I don't particularly like hustle and merengue is because they are "walking dances" you just walk in time with music. the whole hustle thing to me is a bunch of tricks that are cool to do (I love dips and spins and stuff:-)), but after one - two songs it gets boring. Merengue to me is not expressive and exciting enough (I'm not saying I haven't seen people do pretty cool stuff with it).

I just don't understand why these dances are played at ballroom socials more often that some of my favorite ballroom dances.

[Kitty]

PS - I love it when they play a Viennese Waltz at a social scene AND I can find someone who knows it even a little.

So many times I've heard about not teaching Viennese Waltz to beginners...
My personal experience tells that beginners are very capable... or maybe not. But at least they have fun.

[Neil]

They are my least favorite dances

Hmmm... Hustle is one of my favorites.


I do feel hustle is not as connected to music as some other dances.

Really?


I think the reason why I don't particularly like hustle and merengue is because they are "walking dances" you just walk in time with music.

To me, Fox Trot, Waltz, and Tango are more like "walking dances" than Hustle. However, it seems that people who don't specialize in Hustle tend to just walk instead of getting the flow that comes from elasticity of the connection combined with accenting the right part of the turns. Have you ever seen Billy Fajardo or Paul Pellicoro dance Hustle?

I think ballroom dancers tend to be the worst offenders, they might get top quality coaching in their ballroom dances, but feel that Hustle is a less sophisticated dance, so they think their ballroom training is already much more than they need to master Hustle.

Over the past few years, I've noticed more country/western dancers seem to be learning Hustle and taking the same attitude as the ballroom dancers. They go to good ballroom teachers to work on their ballroom technique in country/western, but never bother to train with good Hustle coaches.

[Kitty]

Hmmm... Hustle is one of my favorites.

To me, Fox Trot, Waltz, and Tango are more like "walking dances" than Hustle. However, it seems that people who don't specialize in Hustle tend to just walk instead of getting the flow that comes from elasticity of the connection combined with accenting the right part of the turns. Have you ever seen Billy Fajardo or Paul Pellicoro dance Hustle?

I think ballroom dancers tend to be the worst offenders, they might get top quality coaching in their ballroom dances, but feel that Hustle is a less sophisticated dance, so they think their ballroom training is already much more than they need to master Hustle.
Different people prefer different dances. I love foxtrot, while my boyfriend prefers cha-cha. He also likes hustle, and both of us agree that more than 1 merengue per night is boring.

I said I do enjoy hustle few times in an evening, but around here it is played a lot at ballroom socials.
To me foxtrot, waltz and tango are sliding and/or swinging dances, not just walking. I don't specialize in hustle and I have no idea how I'm supposed to walk when dancing hustle.

I actually have a friend who specialized in hustle - he is amazing.

[Sagitta]

I don't think you sounded offensive at all Kitty! People are entitled to their opinions. I have a lot of opinions and I'm not afraid to voice them. You shouldn't be too.

I didn't catch what you said about hustle and merengue being walking dances. There actually is a variant of hustle, four step hustle, that could look like walking if done poorly, and then for the othr common style of 3 step hustle a lot of people don't know how to deal with the &1 and so it can be quite lousy. There also is street hustle which is basically anything goes partner dancing. As for merengue you can say it is walking, but then all dancing can be considered a form of dancing IMO. Take any dance and you can walk it, such as waltz. Big difference. Walk merengue and dance merengue and to me the distinction is clear. A lot of people whom I danec with do however just walk and I dance circles around them!! :) Come and merengue with me and I'll show you the way it is danced. Merengue is a flirting dance with the right music. Plenty of expression, and I'm not talking of cool tricks! If you are willing to role play as you do for other dances you'll enjoy it, even though you still may favor others. Not one person who has agreed to role play with me has come away disappointed, I think. And if they play 3 in a row I promise you three different danecs as well. :wink:

[jon]

So the question is why do they play hustle so much at Ballroom socials?

Because it sells. A "ballroom dance" isn't determined by a static list frozen in time forever. Dances that do not show at least some ability to change, die (or get turned into vintage or folk dances). Otherwise we might still be doing Cakewalks and Turkey Trots and such at ballroom dances.

Around here, WCS, Hustle, and Salsa are more frequently played at ballroom dances than are V. Waltz or Quickstep. Are they "ballroom dances"? Yes, as far as the dancers who developed in this environment are concerned.

I don't know what the list of "ballroom dances" will be in 30 years but I do know it won't be exactly the same list as today - even as glacial to change as ballroom culture is.

[mamboqueen]

I think they play hustles at dances (a) because a lot of people like them and (b) to break things up a bit. And for a lot of people who are just learning ballroom, they can usually "wing it" with the hustle or, if they don't know it at all, just get out and dance by themselves.

[spatten]

Kitty wrote:

I do feel hustle is not as connected to music as some other dances.


Really?


The reason I originally made this statement is you have what appears to be 4/4 music danced with 3 quarter notes. So you dance on the 1, then the 4, then the 3, then the 2 etc. etc Though the backbeat doesn't really empahsize a 4/4 timing - the phrasing still does.

My other dislike with Hustle what appears to me to be a focus on the arms. Admittedly I haven't seen much quality Hustle - but what I have seen takes the dance out of the body and into the arms.

So the question is why do they play hustle so much at Ballroom socials?

I think Hustle is more popular in College Programs- because a lot of contemporary music fits Hustle better than any other ballrom dance. We don't hear it a lot at the socials I go to.

I do hear a lot of foxtrots and Waltzes played at obscene tempos however? Does anyone else see this?

[Sagitta]

Kitty wrote:

I do feel hustle is not as connected to music as some other dances.


Really?


The reason I originally made this statement is you have what appears to be 4/4 music danced with 3 quarter notes. So you dance on the 1, then the 4, then the 3, then the 2 etc. etc Though the backbeat doesn't really empahsize a 4/4 timing - the phrasing still does.

My other dislike with Hustle what appears to me to be a focus on the arms. Admittedly I haven't seen much quality Hustle - but what I have seen takes the dance out of the body and into the arms.

When I dance hustle I do &1 2 3 over 4 beats throughout the dance, and don't feel that I dance on 1, then on 2, then the 3, then the 4!! :? To me this indicates that a person is dancing &1 2 3 over three beats, then doing &4 1 2, then &3 4 1, then & 2 3 4...and so on. I would consider this incorrect. Am I correct?

The quality hustle that I've seen shows that using the entire body makes for a more pleasing dance. :)

[Kitty]

The reason I originally made this statement is you have what appears to be 4/4 music danced with 3 quarter notes. So you dance on the 1, then the 4, then the 3, then the 2 etc. etc Though the backbeat doesn't really empahsize a 4/4 timing - the phrasing still does.
I start feeling off beat

I think Hustle is more popular in College Programs- because a lot of contemporary music fits Hustle better than any other ballrom dance. We don't hear it a lot at the socials I go to.
really? I thought hustle was mostly 80s, and modern music was mostly samba or cha-cha

I do hear a lot of foxtrots and Waltzes played at obscene tempos however? Does anyone else see this?
It is called Viennese Waltz. :tongue:
Serious: isn't amer. foxtro supposed to be faster?

[pygmalion]

Hustle became super popular in the seventies, and, at least in the music I've heard, been around in some songs ever since. I think there's an older thread with examples of hustle music that ranged from the 70's to contemporary stuff. I'll have to look for it (either that, or ask Phil Owl :wink: :D )

Techno and house music of today, in a lot of cases, definitely fits the hustle tempo and feel, IMHO.

[pygmalion]

Here's the hustle music thread. I think there's another somewhere, but this one gives you an idea -- Justin Timberlake? See what I mean? Hustle will never die (more's the pity :oops: :P :twisted: :lol: )

http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2147

[pygmalion]

When I dance hustle I do &1 2 3 over 4 beats throughout the dance, and don't feel that I dance on 1, then on 2, then the 3, then the 4!! :? To me this indicates that a person is dancing &1 2 3 over three beats, then doing &4 1 2, then &3 4 1, then & 2 3 4...and so on. I would consider this incorrect. Am I correct?



Sagitta, I think there's another thread ( a Vince A one?) which goes into various counts for hustle. There are a few different ways of counting hustle, and there are tons of hustle variations -- line dances, tango hustle, you name it.

Four count hustle is like hustle on training wheels -- no syncopation. Just step on 1-2-3-4. What a snooze! (Sorry. Ignore the editorial comments. :oops: :lol: ) Then there's three count hustle, which has the &1-2-3 count, at least for New York style. The other count is explained in that older hustle thread, but it also has a syncopation. It's just shifted over a couple beats from New York style, if I remember correctly. I guess I'd better find that old thread.

[pygmalion]

There is also a VinceA thread on this, but what the heck! I found this one first. Voila! Hustle counts. :wink: :D

http://www.dance-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1684

[spatten]

I do hear a lot of foxtrots and Waltzes played at obscene tempos however? Does anyone else see this?

It is called Viennese Waltz.


Exactly, but somehow they find a tempo inbetween. Then you end up with a slow Viennese or a fast Watlz. I haven't decided which is the lesser of two evils.

[jon]

Exactly, but somehow they find a tempo inbetween. Then you end up with a slow Viennese or a fast Watlz. I haven't decided which is the lesser of two evils.

Neither. For intermediate tempos in the 40s-low 50s MPM range, you should instead be dancing a rotary folk waltz as, for example, practiced at contra dances. There are many waltz forms in the world.

[Neil]

The reason I originally made this statement is you have what appears to be 4/4 music danced with 3 quarter notes. So you dance on the 1, then the 4, then the 3, then the 2 etc. etc Though the backbeat doesn't really empahsize a 4/4 timing - the phrasing still does.

Two basics takes six beats, so the phrasing issue is exactly the same from Jive and Swing.

[Phil Owl]

What is you reaction to merengue and hustle at ballroom socials?

I like hustle, but it seems to me it is played much more often than Quickstep and VWaltz and Samba and Jive. So I get annoyed after 5th hustle.
Does majority of peope like hustle more than Samba and VWaltz?

Are you equally proficient in hustle and merengue as you are with ballroom dances? Do you dance every single hustle and merengue? Or do you take a break during that song?

And why do they play those dances so much at ballroom socials? Or is it just around here?

Many ballroom events have a hustle or two during the evening for variety's sake.

I personally enjoy Hustle, a lot! I'll grab any Hustle I can. :D

I've seen some really amazing Hustle done by different folks and then some that just looks so forced and uptight and analyzed to death. That's probably why I tend to shy away from studio environments for social dancing.

Meringue though is one of those dances I could never sink my beak into, I feel the same way about it that I do about Quickstep and Shag/Balboa (too corny for me). I sit out Meringue as a rule.

[pygmalion]

You know Phil. I'm convinced that the main reason I hate hustle is because I've only danced it with a real hustle dancer once -- when I danced with Billy Fajardo in a workshop late last year. Dang! He and Katie Marlowe, his partner, can really dance! :D

Other than that, I've danced with some hideous hustle dancers, teachers included. :? :(

[dragon3085]

I'll take hustles and merengues over a bunch of foxtrots any day.

[Sagitta]

I'll take foxtrot over swing. I cannot mix foxtrot and salsa, but hopelessly confuse myself with salsa when doing swing. Don't worry, it does not go the other way around. My salsa stays pure.