scientific backup for competitive ballroom dancing!

[hala]

hi,

I'm preparing a 10 minutes lecture for a class, and my topic is "why is competitive ballroom dancing particularly fit for engineers". I assumed there would be psychology books out there on why this activity attracts the intellectual types (such as engineers), but I couldn't find any.

From observation it shows that the schools strong in technical subjects are also the best at collegiate ballroom, but I need help backing this up. Does anyone know of a reference that talks of the intellectual side of competitive ballroom etc..?

thanks :)
Hala

[pygmalion]

Hi hala. Welcome to the forums. :D

There are tons of scientists, engineers and other intellectual types hanging around the forums. I hope you'll get some good references (I'll google and look around, of course :wink: :D ) I KNOW you'll get some interesting speculation. :shock: :lol: Does that count?

I noticed the same thing at a couple different ballroom studios -- a disproportionate number of engineering types. Why? Don't know.

[Chris Stratton]

Compare the ISTD book to the programmer's manual for a simple microprocessor.

Just make side by side overheads from sample pages - dance figure with timing, footwork, amounts of turn vs. instruction mnemonic with clock cycles, registers, affected flags...

[pygmalion]

Ah yes. My first google of the day. :) Did you know there's a field of psychology called performance art psychology? I didn't. You learn something every day.

Anyway, according to this psychologist, performing arts such as dance require concentration, focus, and attention to detail. Sounds like the characteristics of a scientist to me. Hmm. (And I know this is off-topic, but how is that different from non-performance art?)


w w w.health-helper.com/psychology/psy-pa.html

[tsb]

you may find the following link helpful:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/dance/vintage/resources/essays/engineering_dance.html

while this theorectically addresses social dance, two primary sources that the author uses have been associated with the stanford vintage dance ensemble, a group that has performed both in the US & overseas, both in performance roles as well as teaching & choreography.

[Adwiz]

I wasn't aware of any scientific facts about dance in particular, but it has been long recognized that musical understanding is a benefit to learning.

Last year, a music teacher I know did a bunch of research on this topic. One article that provides some good facts is http://www.menc.org/information/advocate/facts.html.

Since dance is also closely associated with a better appreciation of and understanding of music, there are certainly some similarities, though this can only be used as oblique supporting evidence, not direct evidence. Still, it might help you make your case.

[etchuck]

Darn... where's the link to that Time magazine article about dancing helping to reduce memory loss.... darn it... it's posted in the dance studio where I take ballroom. If I find the ref on it...

[Flat Shoes]

Darn... where's the link to that Time magazine article about dancing helping to reduce memory loss....
:uplaugh: :uplaugh: :uplaugh: Maybe, if you danced more .... you'd remember!

(Sorry, that one was to ironically funny to just ignore.)

Anyways, about the question, I have no such thing as any scientific references, but I can offer speculation. :headwall:

The intelectual side of learning to dance has been mentioned. There are details to learn, remember and focus on, also there are 3D movements to visualize and execute. So for the sake of learning, being focused and a bit methodological helps. Also it takes time to learn to dance, so having patience when learning helps. I think that is also a quality you'll find in engineers and scientist.

From a social viewpoint, one may speculate wether scientist and engineers also look more for goal-oriented activities than the average person. Learning to dance offers the goal of learning something while exercising. And this may be more stimulating to someone who does thinking for a living. And dancing may be a more meaningful way of going out and having fun, than just getting drunk and thrashing about without goal or meaning :D

But hey, this is all speculating :D

[Larinda McRaven]

One of my favorite places to learn from is a book called Physics and the Art of Dance by a physics professor and ballet teacher named Kenneth Laws. I have meet with him and his wife to discuss his books, (three books total, I have two, one is out of print now)

His (and his wifes) classical mechanics understanding combined with his dance experience is outstanding. When you start looking at the body from a classical mechanics/physics point of view and understand that we are simply a "body in space, bound to physical laws and principles, trying to rotate around another body in space" then understanding partnering is a breeze.

So when a dance student comes in and their brain is already thinking in this manner, understanding what they are to do with their body is a breeze. Actually performing and coordinating their body is another question, but as students thy are far ahead of the curve because they UNDERSTAND what is necessary.

Hala, feel free to contact Professor Laws, he works at Dickinson College. I am sure he can be an invaluable source of information. Anyone else that is up for a challenge could contact him also, or at least go get his two books that are still in print. The books have become required reading material for the majority of my students.

[pygmalion]

Have I told you lately that I love google? Check out this article about an engineer who tossed it all, so to speak, to go dance and sing on Broadway. (GR, are you watching? :wink: :D )

http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/technique/issues/spring2002/2002-03-29/27.html

[pygmalion]

Hala, feel free to contact Professor Laws, he works at Dickinson College. I am sure he can be an invaluable source of information. Anyone else that is up for a challenge could contact him also, or at least go get his two books that are still in print. The books have become required reading material for the majority of my students.

Barnes and Noble has Professor Laws' books, and a few others that look interesting. I googled engineering and dance, and got a nice, long results page. 8)

[hala]

Thanks for all the helpfull replies. When i searched on google I entered "ballroom dance" instead of "dance", and got no results the first time. When I use "dance" & "engineering" I got a lot of the results you entered. The comments you all made are also very useful to me. I'm looking forward to presenting my findings in class!

I am an ag engineer and a ballroom dancer myself (bronze level).

thanks again :)

Hala

[pygmalion]

Yup. It's all in how you set up the search terms. 8) Good luck with the presentation. :D

[delamusica]

When is the presentation?

[tj]

(Pardon all of the generalizations, but hey I'm one of these enginerds!)

In my experience, the amount of guys from a technical field that are prevalent in a dance scene is much higher than a normal sampling of society-at-large.

Technical types like dancing because of the initial "cookbook" way that it is taught. There's a certain amount of physical awkwardness that can be associated with technical folk, but we're quite good with a "Follow the instructions" methodology. The more technically specific, the better.

Add to it that a lot of technical fields are male dominated, and that dancing offers a way for a typically shy male enginerd to interact with women without having to chat them up or buy them drinks like your traditional bar scene. It all adds up to the large numbers of men from technology. (e.g. in Seattle, I've met about 1/2 dozen men who work at Microsoft, only one woman; in Denver, about a dozen guys I know are in technical fields. Maybe 3-4 women.)

[Adwiz]

Check out this article about an engineer who tossed it all, so to speak, to go dance and sing on Broadway.

Hehe. Quite the April Fool's joke, that article.

[LindyKeya]

Well, a lot of the engineers I know that dance say they started dancing for one reason: To meet women. The scientific reasons are probably more why they stay, and I guess why dancing is the specific method chosen to meet women.

[pygmalion]

I know a woman (civil engineer -- that probably explains it LOL) who makes her completely non-technical teachers figure out the degree of the angles for all her school figures, not just turns, before she considers herself having learned them. 8)

[hala]

When is the presentation?

it's on May 24, at Ohio State University if anyone is in the area :)
(224 Hitchcock at 3 pm).

Hala

[hala]

In my experience, the amount of guys from a technical field that are prevalent in a dance scene is much higher than a normal sampling of society-at-large. [...]

Add to it that a lot of technical fields are male dominated, ...

That makes sense, in the class I'm taking on 'how to teach engineers' we learned that engineers are 'field independent learners', who are typically guys. Here's some info on the types of learners (http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/aera/NewOrleans/SteveTerrell.pdf).

The curious thing is that this has a lot to do with the ways a baby is raised in its early age (kind of toys, interaction with mother etc...)

So, women engineers have their mum to thank :)... and in the competitive ballroom scene they can find guys who don't consider it a chore to use their brain when dancing!

[Sagitta]

[quote=tj]
The curious thing is that this has a lot to do with the ways a baby is raised in its early age (kind of toys, interaction with mother etc...)

So, women engineers have their mum to thank :)... and in the competitive ballroom scene they can find guys who don't consider it a chore to use their brain when dancing!

This is off-topic but your comment reminded me of what the ballroom samba instructor said yesterday night. Followers must be brainless, not anticipating, but simply following. Moving when a channel is opened and stopping when a channel is closed. :wink: :)

[pygmalion]

Let me guess. The instructor was a lead/man. No offense to you, Sagitta, but I think that's a moronic statement. It takes a heck of a lot of brain work to be prepared for anything a lead can throw your way at a instant's notice, and to make it look good too. Not brainless at all, which any self-respecting follow knows. Grr.

[pygmalion]

I felt bad about saying that all night. Not bad enough to get up and post anything, mind you, but bad.

I'm guessing we're missing some context. The instructor in question must have been making a point that culminated in making a statement that suggested followers should be "brainless." Out of context, a lot of things sound pretty bad, when they're not, necessarily.

Sorry about the rant. :oops: