Progressive Chasse to Right: Associate vs Licentiate Amalgamation

[Larinda McRaven]

Chasse to Right to Outside change to PP is silver.
Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

[Chris Stratton]

Chasse to Right to Outside change to PP is silver.
Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

Actually this is not quite correct at least under the ISTD categorization. There is only one listing of precedes which is shared by both versions of the outside change. It does appear to list the chasse to R as a licentiate combination rather than an associate one, but that would apply to the closed ending as well as the PP one...

not that this does anything to rescue the idea.

[Larinda McRaven]

There is only one listing of precedes which is shared by both versions of the outside change.

If you are looking at precedes. Try looking at the follows for outside change.

[Chris Stratton]

If you are looking at precedes. Try looking at the follows for outside change.

A chasse from promenade is an associate level follow for an outside change to PP.

I think perhaps you actually meant follows for the chasse to R, and it does not differentiate between the two outside changes.

[Larinda McRaven]

Yes, meant chasse to right. And it is a big no no to then do an outside change to pp in bronze. I don't have my book here at home, but it was a big question on my associate and licientiate tests. As well as having been invigilated for it years ago.

[Chris Stratton]

Yes, meant chasse to right. And it is a big no no to then do an outside change to pp in bronze. I don't have my book here at home, but it was a big question on my associate and licientiate tests. As well as having been invigilated for it years ago.

Yes, but it also appears to be a big no no to do the outside change ending in closed. It may not stand out to attract as much attention though, and it's also possible that it might once have been legal or is legal under IDTA...


I keep thinking it would be interesting to try to make some kind of graph connecting all the step names in the legal ways...

[DL]

Yes, meant chasse to right. And it is a big no no to then do an outside change to pp in bronze. I don't have my book here at home, but it was a big question on my associate and licientiate tests. As well as having been invigilated for it years ago.

How about outside change to PP following a back lock?

[Chris Stratton]

Chasse to R to back lock is bronze legal

[Chris Stratton]

You know what would be really fun?

Master of Bronze

[DL]

Chasse to R to back lock is bronze legal

I mean, chasse to R, back lock, outside change to PP. Allowed?

[Chris Stratton]

back lock, outside change to PP. Allowed?

Back lock into either outside change does not appear to be legal at any syllabus level.

[dancepro]

Chasse to Right to Outside change to PP is silver.
Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

I am not sure if you want to know what the IDTA books says? Let me know if you do.

Dancepro

[Chris Stratton]

I am not sure if you want to know what the IDTA books says? Let me know if you do.

Yes, was wondering about that.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

You know what would be really fun?

Master of Bronze
:rocker: That would be wonderful to watch, not just for the puzzle of floorcraft, but also because I think one pretty much never gets to see bronze figures danced at a high level (kind of excepting foxtrot and Viennese).

[Joe]

Back lock into either outside change does not appear to be legal at any syllabus level.
Not to mention the impracticality of it. AFAIK there's no syllabus-legal way to dance a back lock in any orientation where the outside change would take you any practical direction.

[Josh]

Chasse to Right to Outside change to PP is silver.
Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

As already mentioned, no--the differentiation here is simply the amount of rotation on the chasse to the right. In associate only 1/4 (from facing DC to backing DW) or 3/8 (from facing LOD to backing DW) can be made, and in licentiate 1/2 (from facing DC to backing DC) can be made. The follows at that point are standard follows, and it has nothing to do with an outside change ending in closed or PP.

[Chris Stratton]

I don't think it's actually productive to make more than 3/8 turn on the chasse to right when preceding the outside change anyway. To make the combination with the outside change flow nicely you would want to finish the chasse to R at most backing DC as that is what is consistent with the direction of movement. You would not achieve backing DC until the second step of the outside change.

However, while making 3/8 turn is bronze, making it between those alignments appears to be silver.

[Terpsichorean Clod]

Not to mention the impracticality of it. AFAIK there's no syllabus-legal way to dance a back lock in any orientation where the outside change would take you any practical direction.
Maybe underturned spin turn, reverse corte (5/8 turn), back lock

[dancepro]

Yes, was wondering about that.

OK Chris.... the IDTA books says

Chasse to Right to Outside change to PP is silver.

Follow for Member (silver): May be ending in PP:follow with Chasse, Wing, Weave from PP, Cross Hesitation


Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

Follow for Associate (bronze): RF fwd in CBMP OP into any Nat Fig.

Note: When ended in PP step 3 foot position will be either:

Man: LF side and slightly fwd in PP
Lady: RF diag fwd R shoulder leading in PP

Follow: Cross Hesitation, Chasse from PP

or

Man: LF side and slightly back in PP
Lady: RF fwd and slightly to R, R shoulder leading in PP

Follow: Wing or Weave from PP

Alignment: When the follows are Cross Hesitation, Chasse from PP or Wing: the alignment as Man will be: Pointing DW body Facing Wall

When the follow is the Weave: the alignment as Man will be:
Facing DW
In all cases the Lady's alignment will be: Pointing to LOD

There you have it.

Dancepro

[Chris Stratton]

I don't think it's actually productive to make more than 3/8 turn on the chasse to right when preceding the outside change anyway. To make the combination with the outside change flow nicely you would want to finish the chasse to R at most backing DC as that is what is consistent with the direction of movement. You would not achieve backing DC until the second step of the outside change.

Sorry, that was supposed to say at most backing LOD.

[Chris Stratton]

Chasse to Right to Outside change to Closed is bronze.

I suspect this from the IDTA may be the origin of the feeling that this combination is legal here in the US, despite it not being listed for bronze in the more widely read (here) ISTD book.

[Josh]

I don't think it's actually productive to make more than 3/8 turn on the chasse to right when preceding the outside change anyway.

Just telling you what's syllabus-legal, not what works with momentum and swing.

[vcolfari]

I know TBT indicates that progressive chasse to the right should end backing DC if followed by the outside change. Does anyone here prefer to end backing DW before the outside change?

[Josh]

I know TBT indicates that progressive chasse to the right should end backing DC if followed by the outside change. Does anyone here prefer to end backing DW before the outside change?

Since an outside change comfortably rotates 1/4 or 3/8 left, ending the chasse backing DW would cause the outside change to end facing either DW ALOD or Wall, neither of which is appropriate for the following natural turning figure. I have never seen an outside change danced starting backing DW. Maybe you mistyped the alignment?

[Joe]

I would rather spread out the needed amount of turn over two figures than one...