Partnerships And Understanding.

[Abel.Confused]

Hey people out there. I have a question. I am trying to go through this 'phase' myself but any good advice is always helpful.

Hope you could hear my story. A long one.

I reach a point where I am stuck in practice Latin Ballroom. Chacha, Rumba etc. I find that practice these days are not useful anymore. My partner and I wont learn much from our practices and our improvement speed has decreased. I just do not know what to practice and how to improve. We will go through parts of our routine and although we know that this 'move' can be improved, somehow it's almost impossible to fix that move because of lack of knowledge, since i've only started dancing latin 8 months ago and have totally no background in dance. None.

This is also the reason why my partner says that it's because it's something new and a phase which i will have to go through myself. And to add to that. I've been watching some people in the same school as me dance latin and i compare myself to them. I get demoralized and also during practice i would take whatever i think could be improved based on how others did it 'nicer' and tell her that we can improve on this step or how this step could be made to look nicer. And eventually we end up arguing because i get frustrated that theres so many things to work on and that we are not improving. This slowly leads to feelings of giving up.

I now am trying to get through this 'phase' but i do hope that you fellow dancers who have experienced this before, could give me some tips, advice and hope.

[Bella]

Ciao! Welcome :)

Frustration can get to the best of anyone. I think all of us here can empathize feeling "stuck". The reality is that there's always a need for improvement. If lack of knowledge is truly the variable that results in your lack of improvement - express those concerns to your coach, or someone who can unwind your confusion.

What specific things do you need help on? There are many fabulous DFers here that can help you.

[Katarzyna]

Are you taking lessons, you should probably focus on improving what you learn on lessons, not sure imitating others is really the best way to go..

[fascination]

I feel very very strongly about this...if you do not know what to practice or how to fix something...you may not have good enough instruction or have failed to ask for it...it is one thing to be frustrated that you aren't getting better quickly enough (we all have that), but if you don't even know what to practice and specificallywhat you should be trying to do to in each part of your body to accomplish each step well, IMV,you do not have good enough instruction...sure, progress slows and quickens depending upon where one is in the journey...but it will go nowhere if you do not have enough info to practice well and a concrete plan for how to do that... if you can't get that from your current instructor, get better instruction, with or without your partner...don't suffer by practicing over and over again with nothing but minimal info on how to fix something...all it will do is frustrate you, make you think you aren't any good and ingrain bad habits...do not settle for your partner's perspective...I don't doubt that it is well intended but it is also mantra that probably doesn't apply to you... even as a newb, you have noted that you have eyes in your head to see that others are executing better technique...find out why...a good instructor will direct you to drills and/or videos that can teach you how to practice...while some will say that it will come with practice and time, which is true, it is only true if it is backed up with enough info for that to actually happen...

[jerseydancer]

It sounds that may need to take lessons from a professional teacher. The teacher can review your skills and will suggest the route for improvement. If you are already taking lessons, then discuss this with your current teacher or try to take few lessons from a different teacher.

[elisedance]

Also - don't forget to also have fun! Dancing can become too rote if its only about perfection (which is impossible anyway). Go out to a social studio where they do not mind you strutting your stuff and just rediscover how far you really have come. Its very therapeutic - and its great for the partnership. We do this at least once a month and never regret it.

[elisedance]

Oh, and welcome to DF - and for starting an interesting thread.. :)

[Abel.Confused]

Please do clarify this with me guys.
Here is the situation.

I joined latin ballroom because it is a curriculum activity in my school and i love it. I start to do it competitively and i find myself loving it more. I do have teacher (not coaches) and i take private lessons from them. They do tell me stuff like, try to hit on 2 for cha cha, try to look more musculine in this pose, etc. Am i right to say that i am still confused by what they are saying.

I can say that i do need specific directions like for them to guide me slowly on how to do this step or even send me for classes to learn how to control this part of the body for example but it seems to be more comercialized for them.

What do i do now? I feel that i need someone to guide me more.

Please please give me on advice. I want to excel tremendously in latin ballroom. But i need to understand and go past this 'phase' in order to improve better. Im a 8 month experienced dancer so dont hold back on those advices. anything helps. Thanks!

[and123]

To be perfectly blunt, it sounds like your teacher/coach sucks. A good coach will give you what you need, especially since you are asking for it. You need a solid foundation in Latin or none of this other extraneous "advice" you're getting will mean diddly squat.

[Bella]

I joined latin ballroom because it is a curriculum activity in my school and i love it. I start to do it competitively and i find myself loving it more. I do have teacher (not coaches) and i take private lessons from them. They do tell me stuff like, try to hit on 2 for cha cha, try to look more musculine in this pose, etc. Am i right to say that i am still confused by what they are saying.


Why don't you find your teachers as coaches? If you are confused you have to speak up! My coach said to me "did you understand what she was saying" and I said "yea?" and he says "ok do it." And of course I did the opposite. He comes back to me with "you have to tell me if you don't understand something, don't be scared to speak up!"

Communication is one of the most essential keys to learning...

p.s. Check out the "Why" thread. I think it's a good one for you to flip through.

[fascination]

one thing to be aware of as a new person...it is very difficult to recognize an instructor who might also be limited...that is someone who is only able to give you limited or general hits about how to do something well b/c they themselves have a long way to go and can't articulate what needs to be done even though they dance well enough to a new eye to pass as an instructor...if the feedback you are getting seems to general, shop around...a top level pro will not spare you any details if you tell them, as you have said, that you want to compete and be very good....I could write three paragraphs on all of the things my pro wants to see happening on one forward rumba walk....so I can spend hours doing that and knowing what I need to be looking for; from what my foot is doing to what my knee is doing to where my hip and foot should be at any given moment to what is going on with my ribcage to what I might be wanting to do with my hands...to where my shoulders should be, to a host of other issues ....shop around...go to local comps and see who is winning...don't settle for a lack of info...settle for someone who could overload you ;) if your goal is to be very good....and sure...then, if you get frustrated from time to time it will be for the right reason...and you can go party and tap back into why you got started in the first pace

[Abel.Confused]

Maybe i am asking too much? Like when i ask my teacher on how to do a ronde (hope im spelling that right) he will tell me to lift my hip higher on the leg your using to do the ronde. Then after i do it one time for him. He goes back to giving other students their private lessons or something else. I dont know but i learn things the most when i have total understanding and i dont think i learnt much from it. Or maybe doing a ronde really is just lifting the hip higher? and that im asking too much

[fascination]

To be perfectly blunt, it sounds like your teacher/coach sucks. A good coach will give you what you need, especially since you are asking for it. You need a solid foundation in Latin or none of this other extraneous "advice" you're getting will mean diddly squat.lol...I think I just said that in a more genteel way;)

[fascination]

Maybe i am asking too much? Like when i ask my teacher on how to do a ronde (hope im spelling that right) he will tell me to lift my hip higher on the leg your using to do the ronde. Then after i do it one time for him. He goes back to giving other students their private lessons or something else. I dont know but i learn things the most when i have total understanding and i dont think i learnt much from it. Or maybe doing a ronde really is just lifting the hip higher? and that im asking too much
you aren't asking too much...that isn't enough info...and incidentally, I would maintain that a good instructor really would help you to understand that you are really using the other leg to ronde more than the one you think you should be focusing upon...bottom line;...you cannot get excellent without excellent private instruction...it won't happen....you can get better without it ...but not excellent...and you aren't getting enough info

[Bella]

Maybe i am asking too much? Like when i ask my teacher on how to do a ronde (hope im spelling that right) he will tell me to lift my hip higher on the leg your using to do the ronde. Then after i do it one time for him. He goes back to giving other students their private lessons or something else. I dont know but i learn things the most when i have total understanding and i dont think i learnt much from it. Or maybe doing a ronde really is just lifting the hip higher? and that im asking too much

During your lessons your teacher has other lessons... strange. It depends where you are in the choreography for the proper prep and execution of the ronde (spelling is correct, minus the accent). There's no such things as asking too much... you may very well need to seek a different coach.

[tanya_the_dancer]

Maybe i am asking too much? Like when i ask my teacher on how to do a ronde (hope im spelling that right) he will tell me to lift my hip higher on the leg your using to do the ronde. Then after i do it one time for him. He goes back to giving other students their private lessons or something else. I dont know but i learn things the most when i have total understanding and i dont think i learnt much from it. Or maybe doing a ronde really is just lifting the hip higher? and that im asking too much

That doesn't sound like a private lesson. It sounds like you are part of a group class and the teacher is making rounds helping everyone. Private lesson means it's just you (and maybe your partner) and the teacher, and you have his undivided attention for about an hour or so.

[Abel.Confused]

Oh sorry. I asked him when he was teaching a class. I do it in a school so i asked him during class. But i can say the way he told me to do it would be the normal way in my private lessons.

[dlgodud]

To be perfectly blunt, it sounds like your teacher/coach sucks. A good coach will give you what you need, especially since you are asking for it. You need a solid foundation in Latin or none of this other extraneous "advice" you're getting will mean diddly squat.

I have to agree with this.

[dlgodud]

Maybe i am asking too much? Like when i ask my teacher on how to do a ronde (hope im spelling that right) he will tell me to lift my hip higher on the leg your using to do the ronde. Then after i do it one time for him. He goes back to giving other students their private lessons or something else. I dont know but i learn things the most when i have total understanding and i dont think i learnt much from it. Or maybe doing a ronde really is just lifting the hip higher? and that im asking too much

I am confused. I am sorry if I misunderstood what you wrote here, but did you jump in someone's private lessons to ask about it? Otherwise can you be more clarify what the situation was?

[Abel.Confused]

Well is there anything i can do other than get a new coach. In my country here finding a good coach here is hard due to political and other reasons. I hope there are ways to make myself improve better.

And please do add in any tips, advice to things which i will experience in the future or anything which you think is very important to a dancer, an inexperienced one who wants to do well.

[and123]

There are some videos out there that explain basic Latin technique pretty well. While they are not a substitute for private instruction, at least you will be more comfortable with the terminology and actions used in dancing.

[Abel.Confused]

when my teacher was teaching a class with myself inside, i asked him for his help on a step which is in my own routine which he gave me.

Hope that clarifies :)

[dlgodud]

Well is there anything i can do other than get a new coach. In my country here finding a good coach here is hard due to political and other reasons. I hope there are ways to make myself improve better.

And please do add in any tips, advice to things which i will experience in the future or anything which you think is very important to a dancer, an inexperienced one who wants to do well.

I sometimes watch Youtube and there are a lot of video lessons done by worldclass professionals. Maybe it can help.

[jerseydancer]

May be you can ask your teacher to give you specific exersizes to improve your technique.

[jerseydancer]

Well is there anything i can do other than get a new coach. In my country here finding a good coach here is hard due to political and other reasons. I hope there are ways to make myself improve better.

And please do add in any tips, advice to things which i will experience in the future or anything which you think is very important to a dancer, an inexperienced one who wants to do well.

what country are you from?

[elisedance]

I sometimes watch Youtube and there are a lot of video lessons done by worldclass professionals. Maybe it can help.

THats a great idea - if you are doing standard lookup the ones by Mirko and Alessia - somewhere on DF there is a step list for at least two of their training routines.

[Abel.Confused]

Im not doing standard. Im doing the other one, (do not know the name for it's category) with cha cha, rumba, jive, samba and paso doube (i know im spelling the doube wrong)

[elisedance]

Latin :) I'm not familiar with those utubes but there must be instructional ones in latin too.

[Bella]

doble.

International Latin :) Didn't your coach tell you?!

[Abel.Confused]

i did not really think remembering that was that useful. Thanks alot for your help guys. I think i do need some sleep now. It's already 4 am here.

[Bella]

I think it's important you know which category you're training for, silly.

[elisedance]

yup, you might feel a bit out of place if you walk out to do latin during a smooth heat ;)

[dbk]

I've been in that kind of rut, too. It will get solved by a lesson or two with a good Latin pro, who will give you clarification on things you don't understand, new/better technique, etc.

If you are already taking lessons with a regular coach, it might be time to branch out and get a new point of view. Either your coach isn't very good, or s/he just can't explain things the way you need them explained.

[madmaximus]

Hey people out there. I have a question. I am trying to go through this 'phase' myself but any good advice is always helpful.

Hope you could hear my story. A long one.

I reach a point where I am stuck in practice Latin Ballroom. Chacha, Rumba etc. I find that practice these days are not useful anymore. My partner and I wont learn much from our practices and our improvement speed has decreased. I just do not know what to practice and how to improve. We will go through parts of our routine and although we know that this 'move' can be improved, somehow it's almost impossible to fix that move because of lack of knowledge, since i've only started dancing latin 8 months ago and have totally no background in dance. None.

This is also the reason why my partner says that it's because it's something new and a phase which i will have to go through myself. And to add to that. I've been watching some people in the same school as me dance latin and i compare myself to them. I get demoralized and also during practice i would take whatever i think could be improved based on how others did it 'nicer' and tell her that we can improve on this step or how this step could be made to look nicer. And eventually we end up arguing because i get frustrated that theres so many things to work on and that we are not improving. This slowly leads to feelings of giving up.

I now am trying to get through this 'phase' but i do hope that you fellow dancers who have experienced this before, could give me some tips, advice and hope.

Alright then,
What do we know:
8 months dancing. Latin Style (5 Dances), a few privates and group classes.
1 Partner, 1 teacher(?) and a lot of frustration.

Welcome to the black hole. Come on in--it's frustratingly fun in here (echo).

Seriously, A.C., write this down: NUANCE.

Dancing skill , and the eventual improvement thereof, is all about NUANCE (you know, those little tiny details, like specific angles of the foot, the bend of the wrist or elbow, the angle of the chin, the expression of the eyebrows--I could go on and on...but let's not).

The point is, the more you are able to refine your knowledge about a movement or motion (and apply that knowledge to said movement), the better you can be.

For example, when we take our first Rumba steps, we think only in terms of putting the foot ahead of the other--but studying that one part of the technique over the years you will realize that that step requires several pieces of technique (like compression, hip action, straight/bent knees, timing, and so on...)

When we first begin to dance, our expectations versus the reality of the sheer volume of knowledge required to improve, hardly match--and we're often happily oblivious of that fact.

This puts us at a serious disadvantage, because unless you have a good teacher who can paint that exact picture of a "perfect" Rumba walk and its NUANCES, you have no way of recognizing what to work on (and the amount of work needed) to get there.

It's impossible to draw a rutabaga if you haven't seen one.

Thus the answer to your problem, of course, is simple: you merely need to amass such knowledge.

You need the knowledge to REFINE your movement into a more specific NUANCE.

And that takes TIME, the right teacher, the right approach, and the right things (not the wrong things) to focus on.

So find that one mentor whom you can work with, and who will be invested in your development.

Last bit of advice--never compare your dancing with someone else's, because 9 times out of 10, you'll end up envious, bitter, and frustrated.

Remember, to be the smartest person in the world, you just have to realize that you don't know anything.






m

[mamboqueen]

bravo!

[fascination]

and always always listen to the mystery man...always

[jerseydancer]

yup, you might feel a bit out of place if you walk out to do latin during a smooth heat ;)

if she is from Europe or Asia, they have never heard of smooth or rythm. It is only ballroom (standard) or latin

[elisedance]

good point...

however, then she might feel even odder... ;)

[WaltzElf]

if she is from Europe or Asia, they have never heard of smooth or rythm. It is only ballroom (standard) or latin


Not true - depending on what country he/ she is from, there's also Exhibition, Team Formation, English Old Time and New Vogue ;-)


All these are dancesport competition styles found in places in Europe and Asia.

[Bella]

lol, it's the whole "american" in front of smooth and rhythm that throws people off.... ;)

[QPO]

Welcome to DF, good question I have issues myself

I will look forward to the replies

Hey people out there. I have a question. I am trying to go through this 'phase' myself but any good advice is always helpful.

Hope you could hear my story. A long one.

I reach a point where I am stuck in practice Latin Ballroom. Chacha, Rumba etc. I find that practice these days are not useful anymore. My partner and I wont learn much from our practices and our improvement speed has decreased. I just do not know what to practice and how to improve. We will go through parts of our routine and although we know that this 'move' can be improved, somehow it's almost impossible to fix that move because of lack of knowledge, since i've only started dancing latin 8 months ago and have totally no background in dance. None.

This is also the reason why my partner says that it's because it's something new and a phase which i will have to go through myself. And to add to that. I've been watching some people in the same school as me dance latin and i compare myself to them. I get demoralized and also during practice i would take whatever i think could be improved based on how others did it 'nicer' and tell her that we can improve on this step or how this step could be made to look nicer. And eventually we end up arguing because i get frustrated that theres so many things to work on and that we are not improving. This slowly leads to feelings of giving up.

I now am trying to get through this 'phase' but i do hope that you fellow dancers who have experienced this before, could give me some tips, advice and hope.

[QPO]

Well now that my DP & I would do a comp, it has changed the dymanics, he is a perfectionist and thinks that my input is not serious enough. what I am finding at the moment that the amount of information that I have to digest, means that when i get on the dance floor I concentrate on some and fluff the others. ie. think aoubt the feel and arms will make me forget to look up and out instead of eyes down to the floor. If I focus on the eyes and head, then something else will go astray. I am hoping this will all become second nature evenutally, but at the moment......:-(

[sambagirl]

Don't worry. It will become second nature -- that's why everyone practices, so that the actions we want our bodies to take will become consistent and ingrained.

[Nik]

Hey people out there. I have a question. I am trying to go through this 'phase' myself but any good advice is always helpful.

Hope you could hear my story. A long one.

I reach a point where I am stuck in practice Latin Ballroom. Chacha, Rumba etc. I find that practice these days are not useful anymore. My partner and I wont learn much from our practices and our improvement speed has decreased. I just do not know what to practice and how to improve. We will go through parts of our routine and although we know that this 'move' can be improved, somehow it's almost impossible to fix that move because of lack of knowledge, since i've only started dancing latin 8 months ago and have totally no background in dance. None.

This is also the reason why my partner says that it's because it's something new and a phase which i will have to go through myself. And to add to that. I've been watching some people in the same school as me dance latin and i compare myself to them. I get demoralized and also during practice i would take whatever i think could be improved based on how others did it 'nicer' and tell her that we can improve on this step or how this step could be made to look nicer. And eventually we end up arguing because i get frustrated that theres so many things to work on and that we are not improving. This slowly leads to feelings of giving up.

I now am trying to get through this 'phase' but i do hope that you fellow dancers who have experienced this before, could give me some tips, advice and hope.

I think everyone goes through this, for me its about 2 times a year. For about a month or 2 I will feel like crap, will argue with my partner, and not have any contructive practices.

At times like this, I have found that the best thing to do is start digging up old tapes of yourself and watching them, (if you don't have any, then tape yourself practice once or twice a month). You will start seeing that you are infact improving, and you have to keep taking lessons.

Sometimes you have to let the paint dry before adding new layers, you can't constrantly be painting.

Believe me when I say this, one day you will come to the studio and everything will just start working.

[QPO]

Nice to know that this will happen.. we are off to practice tonight :-) perhaps it will be better

Don't worry. It will become second nature -- that's why everyone practices, so that the actions we want our bodies to take will become consistent and ingrained.

[Abel.Confused]

Thanks Nik. That was encouraging in a way. Yea i think taking a break now is what i need. And man.. Im a dude.. I wished the world has this dance organization to par you up with your own good mentor. It's so hard to find a good one in my country

[Bella]

Thanks Nik. That was encouraging in a way. Yea i think taking a break now is what i need. And man.. Im a dude.. I wished the world has this dance organization to par you up with your own good mentor. It's so hard to find a good one in my country

I don't think he meant for you to take a break... You have to find things that motivate you to keep learning, and not let frustration get the best of you....