Expressing dominance

[revolution]

Hi,

I've been wondering about required dominance in my lead. I think its necessary to include dominance to have my lead be clear, but I also have to be careful to to be forceful and over bearing.

Here is what I experienced when practicing walking in open embrace, I've stiffened my arms to provide a solid extension of my body, sort of like a fork-lift, although obviously with flexibility. But the forks are stiff enough to provide solid and reassuring lead, instead of having my body too fluid and pliable. How should a good lead feel?

Regards,
Rev

[Peaches]

Not stiff, and the idea of "dominance" in the lead makes me uneasy.

To me, the best leads are relaxed, gentle, fluid, responsive, clear and confident.

[samina]

easy dominance...:tongue:

[Zoopsia59]

This may just be a language thing, but to me the word "dominance" implies that the follower has no choice but to go where you lead. That implies a level of forcefulness that would be inappropriate.

Remember, the leader INVITES the follower. He does not FORCE or REQUIRE the follower to follow his lead.

Your lead should be clear and purposeful so she knows exactly what you are inviting her to do, but the follower should be able physically to refuse your "invitation" of movement and may have a very good reason to do so that you are unaware of. However she should not exercise this ability without a good reason, because the leader may also have a very important reason for moving her in that way.

Followers have to learn a skill also.... its called Following. If she had no choice but to go where you lead, she would not need to learn this difficult skill. The only time you should lead in a way that allows her no choice is if you are aware of a potential danger and you don't want to take any chances that she might not respond correctly.

(If its that serious, frankly, I'd be ok with the leader picking me up off the floor and putting me down elsewhere if he can't react quickly enough any other way! Its disconcerting... yes, I've had it happen... but far better than a stiletto to the calf, instep... or head)

[opendoor]

.... I've stiffened my arms to provide a solid extension of my body, sort of like a fork-lift, although obviously with flexibility ...

Hi Rev, you should be ready to lead without using arms in open embrace at all. Just let them hang down at your side. Make a move, side steps, mirror steps, false mirrors, turns, a.s.o. The follower should be able to follow you just by looking at your torso.

Though I think I can lead pretty well, I must do this exercise very often, because I tend to lift up my right shoulder slightly (which causes an aching hardening of the trapecius the next days).

.. How should a good lead feel?

Try it out. Let you be led, just follow and then avoid the mistakes.

Greetings

[revolution]

Not stiff, and the idea of "dominance" in the lead makes me uneasy.

To me, the best leads are relaxed, gentle, fluid, responsive, clear and confident.

Gentle? I have a very gentle lead, makes me feel as though its too weak at times. I think what I can compare a non dominant lead with is walking that is not grounded. Perhaps what I am talking about it is being commitment to the lead, but to initiate a lead an easy dominance (thanks samina) needs to be also expressed. Ahhh so much going on while tango dancing :).

--
rev

[bordertangoman]

clarity and fluidity and firmnesse (+ commodittee & delight) are useful.

you could also whisper the Borg mantra: "Resistance is Futile" in her ear.

[Gssh]

I, too am uncomfortable with the expression "dominance". The core of leading is in my opinion not to "make the follower do something", but to "open a path for the follower". A good lead should make the followers next step inevitable, not because she can't go anywhere else, but because she doesn't want to go anywhere else. Imagine the follower as flowing water - by putting obstacles in her way, or opening easier routes you can get it to flow anywhere. But this is very different from just carrying around a bucket - the water goes where it wants, but the shape of the riverbed influences where the water wants to go. This doesn't mean that it can't be forceful - the niagara falls are forceful, or the way water crashes against a cliff is forceful, but it is a different kind of force than a pump, or a bucket, or something. As a leader i try to provide the path of least resistance, and the follower follows that path. This is for me why women who don't actually follow are so frustrating sometimes - i dig a beautiful channel, and she tries to flow uphill, or she breaks the levee. And then i have to put up pumps and force her, or dig trenches to divert things before i drown.

I think a reassuring lead has very little to do with how strong the arms are, but with how inevitable the leaders whole geometry makes the flow of the dance. A non-reassuring lead is the consequence of the follwer not trusting the leader to know what he is doing, and this trust has to be earned.

Gssh

[revolution]

As a leader i try to provide the path of least resistance, and the follower follows that path. This is for me why women who don't actually follow are so frustrating sometimes - i dig a beautiful channel, and she tries to flow uphill, or she breaks the levee. And then i have to put up pumps and force her, or dig trenches to divert things before i drown.

I think a reassuring lead has very little to do with how strong the arms are, but with how inevitable the leaders whole geometry makes the flow of the dance. A non-reassuring lead is the consequence of the follwer not trusting the leader to know what he is doing, and this trust has to be earned.

Wow impressive, how long have you been dancing tango? I sometimes thought of a follower as a ball of energy, which amplifies everything. I am a little off with my vocabulary, but at least this thread is getting attention :). So it basically comes down to being confident and committed to your lead (steps) and allowing the follower to follow on her own. So the more certain a lead is the stronger and more clear the trenches will be, and I guess this will have the effect of having the follower feel safe and flow through the channels.

--
rev

[newbie]

Hi,
How should a good lead feel?


"Soft but firm."
And good luck with that oxymoron.

[revolution]

I have a follow up question, regarding firmness and trenches, :). If you are dancing with a woman who is very radiant and has a strong energy, do you need to calibrate how deep your trenches are. Do you have to be extra certain about your steps in order to dig deep enough trenches. Because if the watre flow is extra strong or abundant, the water will simply over flow the trenches and the tango will look sloppy.I am concerned about being strong enough to be able to contain a very strong woman energy. Or does it all begin with the lead anyway, and the woman puts out just enough energy to match the mans certainty (lead)?

--
Rev

[Gssh]

Not sure if i would expand that image that far - we are not figthing the follower, we are both cooperating to create a beatiful dance. She is working hard to make the dance enjoyable for me, and i am working hard to make the dance enjoyable for her. To use a graphical term, the leader works the negative space, the follower the positive space. If you feel you have to contain her "more", i.e. your lead is clear, and she ignores it to an extend that makes you feel "i am being overpowered" instead of "Oh, this was a nice thing she added to our dance" you two are not cooperating. I know followers who like to fight, and it is fun sometimes to play this game, but it is essentially the opposite of what i would like to feel. My suggestion would be to just play and enjoy the ride. Tango can be more like contact improv, where both dancers toss puzzles at each other, and enjoy the way their partner solves them, and enjoy the challenge of unraveling the puzzles they are being offered. This works for me best when doing more nuevoish stuff, but other people will probably have better insights into this, it is not really what i am looking for in my own dance.

Gssh

[UnfamiliarSameness]

Gssh, I really like your description...and as a follower can I say the idea of expressing "dominance" is really horrible. (Mind you I've recently experienced a few dances that were all about some ego maniacs expressing their delusions of tango dominance using my body...urgh!...so I'm probably a bit oversensitive about this type of language at the mo)

[kieronneedscake]

Gssh has got the whole dominance thing more or less neatly described. You are not dominating your partner, you are demonstrating mastery and clarity in what you want. She can still refuse to play, or express her own wishes through embrace and movement.

If a follower is energetic, then that energy still needs to be channeled and contained within the dance, i.e. you need to match it, NOT crush it. Your embrace may need to be firmer, and you will probably need to move yourself more. Alternatively you can try to calm her down with simple steady steps if you do not agree (or are too tired) to dance with that level of energy. Hopefully she will listen to you.

High-powered tango need not be galloping round the room, it can be used to create slow drama too, by sharing balance and supporting each other through steps. Suspense and release is a great approach to taking an energetic partner through a steady dance.

The stereotypical Argentinian woman requires a very assertive lead before they will get going, but one does not need to wrestle them into submission. Clarity and no hesitation are all they need. You're not being a control freak, you're getting your partner into a situation where they can enjoy the dance and start putting their creativity into it, rather than worrying about what half-assed steps you might be trying to lead.

[Peaches]

+1 re: appreciation of Gssh's approach to leading. Major kudos. I love that analogy.

Also, Kieron, I really like what you had to say.

[bordertangoman]

I have a follow up question, regarding firmness and trenches, :). If you are dancing with a woman who is very radiant and has a strong energy, do you need to calibrate how deep your trenches are. Do you have to be extra certain about your steps in order to dig deep enough trenches. Because if the watre flow is extra strong or abundant, the water will simply over flow the trenches and the tango will look sloppy.I am concerned about being strong enough to be able to contain a very strong woman energy. Or does it all begin with the lead anyway, and the woman puts out just enough energy to match the mans certainty (lead)?

--
Rev

My experience is that groundedness is key to leading a woman with strong energy;
being grounded while you are standing and generating energy from the pushing leg so you "arrive" fully on the standing leg. Groundedness leads to clarity of your steps and makes it easier for the woman to follow; irrespective of being open or close or milonguero embrace.

[Dave Bailey]

I've been wondering about required dominance in my lead. I think its necessary to include dominance to have my lead be clear, but I also have to be careful to to be forceful and over bearing.
Yeah.... I kind of know what you mean, but I'm really not sure about the word "dominance" either.

So many of the terms we use to describe the lead quality are subject to misinterpretation - "forceful" or "strong" for example. On the other hand, "clear" or "strong" are not brilliant either.

Maybe "authoritative"? "Confident"?

I need a thesaurus...

As for the stiff arms:Here is what I experienced when practicing walking in open embrace, I've stiffened my arms to provide a solid extension of my body, sort of like a fork-lift, although obviously with flexibility. But the forks are stiff enough to provide solid and reassuring lead, instead of having my body too fluid and pliable. How should a good lead feel?
I don't think that's the right way to go in social dancing, but it might be useful as an exercise to ensure you're leading with the body rather than waving your arms around in a rowing motion.

[bordertangoman]

Hi,

How should a good lead feel?




go and feel a good lead; I think even if its for 2 mintues 40 seconds you will learn a lot from dancing with another good leader that you like. As much as he (if he's a teacher) can tell you in a day.

One Dance is worth a thousand Words ;)

[Joe]

Your lead should be soft enough to allow her options, but strong enough to be sure she picks the right one. :D

[dchester]

This may just be a language thing, but to me the word "dominance" implies that the follower has no choice but to go where you lead. That implies a level of forcefulness that would be inappropriate.

Remember, the leader INVITES the follower. He does not FORCE or REQUIRE the follower to follow his lead.

Your lead should be clear and purposeful so she knows exactly what you are inviting her to do, but the follower should be able physically to refuse your "invitation" of movement and may have a very good reason to do so that you are unaware of. However she should not exercise this ability without a good reason, because the leader may also have a very important reason for moving her in that way. It also might be a philosophical thing. I was in a leaders workshop with a teacher who actually said that we needed to be able to lead in a way that the follower has no choice but to go where you lead. Then he proceeded to demonstrate how to do this. FWIW, this was in close embrace though, and not open. He was a great dancer, BTW.

One thing that has become clear to me, is that not everyone believes in the "lead is an invitation" philosophy.

[revolution]

you are demonstrating mastery and clarity in what you want. She can still refuse to play, or express her own wishes through embrace and movement.
If she refuses to play there would not be much of a dance, in my opinion the dance partners are suppose to be helping each other out. It’s about cooperation, so being refused to lead would not make for much of a dance. She should acknowledge the lead, and then add to it if she wants to express her own wishes. Tango to me is a conversation where the partners trust each other and create together. I think "assertiveness" / "confidence" should be the replacement word for "dominance" in this thread. :). Because with a strong enough assertion/confidence, she will want to follow, because it will be much less interesting not to.

One thing that has become clear to me, is that not everyone believes in the "lead is an invitation" philosophy.
Try to force anything and you will be met with resistance. The issue for me arrives in the difference in nature of a man and a woman. Geeze its tough trying to articulate tango concepts. I think it comes down to calibrating with each dance, and experimenting which gives the best results.


--
rev

[bordertangoman]

Try to force anything and you will be met with resistance. The issue for me arrives in the difference in nature of a man and a woman. Geeze its tough trying to articulate tango concepts. I think it comes down to calibrating with each dance, and experimenting which gives the best results.


--
rev


i would echo this from my tai chi days; the instructors who could engage with your energy really softly had no problem making microadjustments to , say, my hand position, those who just pushed just got resistance. It wont work every time but 95% it does.

[dchester]

If she refuses to play there would not be much of a dance, in my opinion the dance partners are suppose to be helping each other out. It’s about cooperation, so being refused to lead would not make for much of a dance. She should acknowledge the lead, and then add to it if she wants to express her own wishes. Tango to me is a conversation where the partners trust each other and create together. I think "assertiveness" / "confidence" should be the replacement word for "dominance" in this thread. :). Because with a strong enough assertion/confidence, she will want to follow, because it will be much less interesting not to. A lot of times we get into disagreements that are about semantics (or possibly even whether terms are PC). Where as other times there truly is a difference of opinion (or philosophy) on how something is supposed to work.

When I started out, "the lead is an invitation" was what the teachers said, so I never questioned it. It turns out that for me, once I got exposed to some other philosophies, my leads became more clear. Now, I'd say that I invite embellishments, but I lead steps. The bottom line though is that for whatever philosophy you subscribe to, it has to be enjoyable for your partner, or you won't get too many dances.

Try to force anything and you will be met with resistance. The issue for me arrives in the difference in nature of a man and a woman. Geeze its tough trying to articulate tango concepts. I think it comes down to calibrating with each dance, and experimenting which gives the best results. There's a lot of truth in that. Everyone is different, so what is a "good" lead for one may be a "bad" lead for another. I think dancing with lots of different people can help learn how to calibrate (as you called it) more quickly.

On the other side, occasionally I'll come across a follower that after I lead one step, has determined what the next three steps are going to be, and basically she has taken over the lead (very annoying for me). Usually the first time it happens, I'm thinking my lead wasn't clear enough and I try to be more clear, but eventually I figure out that she's just going to do what she wants (unless I overpower her). At that point, I'll just try to make the best of it and do/accommodate the steps she wants, but I'm not likely to be in a hurry to ask her for another tanda.

[Angel HI]

How should a good lead feel? Rev
I have read this thread, and though about this for a while. Firstly, Rev, much of your OP is incorrect. The next to last thing that you want to do is stiffen something in your lead. The last thing that you want to do is to imply dominance. Here's the deal....

1. Know where your center and balance is, and know your space (the area created by forming a circle in front of you w/ the arms).
2. Know where her center and balance is at all times, and where her space is (ditto yours).
3. Lead only by moving your balance within your space, and by rotating around your center. Lead yourself...not your partner. In order to do this, steps 1 and 2 must be maintained; always.
4. Follow your own lead, then that created by the follow (lady). The process is lead-follow-follow; the last being yours.

We use all kinds of terms to decribe this; lead, invite, propose, initiate, etc. Remember one part of the [3 part] codigo...dance (thus lead) by "the creating and taking of space". Trust it. The follow will respond, if she is remotely trying to be in the same frame of reference.

[Shandy]

I have read this thread, and though about this for a while. Firstly, Rev, much of your OP is incorrect. The next to last thing that you want to do is stiffen something in your lead. The last thing that you want to do is to imply dominance. Here's the deal....

1. Know where your center and balance is, and know your space (the area created by forming a circle in front of you w/ the arms).
2. Know where her center and balance is at all times, and where her space is (ditto yours).
3. Lead only by moving your balance within your space, and by rotating around your center. Lead yourself...not your partner. In order to do this, steps 1 and 2 must be maintained; always.
4. Follow your own lead, then that created by the follow (lady). The process is lead-follow-follow; the last being yours.

We use all kinds of terms to decribe this; lead, invite, propose, initiate, etc. Remember one part of the [3 part] codigo...dance (thus lead) by "the creating and taking of space". Trust it. The follow will respond, if she is remotely trying to be in the same frame of reference.


Angel - this post made me smile. I'd tried to post but it just sounded confused and complicated for something that is really simple. Left and when I came back I read your post and 'eureka', you've said it perfectly.

[Dave Bailey]

When I started out, "the lead is an invitation" was what the teachers said, so I never questioned it. It turns out that for me, once I got exposed to some other philosophies, my leads became more clear. Now, I'd say that I invite embellishments, but I lead steps.
There are a progression of "lies-to-children" about leading, I think.

I've been a member of the "invitation" school for a while, but I'm beginning to be dissatisfied with that as a model now. I think there's a case for - at a certain point in a lead's development - stressing "authority" over "invitation". If only because too much invitation is difficult to distinguish from an ambiguous lead.

[Andira]

I've been a member of the "invitation" school for a while, but I'm beginning to be dissatisfied with that as a model now. I think there's a case for - at a certain point in a lead's development - stressing "authority" over "invitation". If only because too much invitation is difficult to distinguish from an ambiguous lead.

There is a certain type of leader, those who are extremely timid to start with, who I think can benefit from ideas of "dominance" (although other approaches might be even better).

[Steve Pastor]

Well, Dave, you and I agree on his. And we've heard from other posters, all men who lead, about the same thing.
And I disagree with Angle to some extent.
I do agree with him here We use all kinds of terms to decribe this; lead, invite, propose, initiate, etc., but I think I would have a different interpretation of his words!

Here's an example.
Lead only by moving your balance within your space, and by rotating around your center. Lead yourself...not your partner.
Yes, when you are first learning you have to develop your own abilities. But, as I just posted in another thread, the goal is to learn to dance "as one". Although we read Know where her center and balance is at all times, I just don't care for what to me seems like a disconnect - sort of like what you get when your partner isn't doing her part to connect with you.
I even dislike the lead follow follow thing. It is true when the process goes from your conscious mind to the subconscious, but verbalizing it early on, isn't, I don't think, helpful without qualification.

[Andira]

This makes me think of aikido... you start by learning to move from and around your own center. Later you learn to move from and around the center inbetween you and your partner.

[Andira]

The issue for me arrives in the difference in nature of a man and a woman. Geeze its tough trying to articulate tango concepts. I think it comes down to calibrating with each dance, and experimenting which gives the best results.

Lots of people seem to think that tango has something to do with the nature of a man and a woman. I disagree quite strongly, although I quite accept that lots of people have this opinion. I am not sure I understand you here, though. Is it the fact that man and woman is different that gives you problems?

[Andira]

If she refuses to play there would not be much of a dance, in my opinion the dance partners are suppose to be helping each other out. It’s about cooperation, so being refused to lead would not make for much of a dance.

The leader should then make me want to be led. In reality maybe I don't leave the dancefloor if I feel I don't want to follow. Maybe I should.


I think "assertiveness" / "confidence" should be the replacement word for "dominance" in this thread. :). Because with a strong enough assertion/confidence, she will want to follow, because it will be much less interesting not to.

Assertion is a great word, yes! I am not sure assertiveness makes it more interesting, though. It makes the lead clearer, less fussy, less ambiguous - it feels better. It is more fun.

Oh wait - we are using words differently, perhaps. I am thinking about your other thread, where you are talking about keeping followers interested. I'd say assertiveness will make your followers more responsive simply because it is better leading.

[Angel HI]

I think there's a case for - at a certain point in a lead's development - stressing "authority" over "invitation". If only because too much invitation is difficult to distinguish from an ambiguous lead.
Though leads have to be clear, care should be taken w/ the idea of the need to stress authority, especially at a higher development. As one's skills increase, one begins to realize the many times during the dance that the lead may actually be shared.

[Angel HI]

Steve, you and I often see eye to eye on many things, and I respect your learning. However, I know I am right in this. Let me try to explain.
And I disagree with Angel to some extent.
I do agree with him here , but I think I would have a different interpretation of his words. Here's an example.

Angel's Quote:
Lead only by moving your balance within your space, and by rotating around your center. Lead yourself...not your partner.

Yes, when you are first learning you have to develop your own abilities. But, as I just posted in another thread, the goal is to learn to dance "as one".
By using the lead as I have described, you will most definitely move as one. The idea is to understand that the role of the lead is; (a) not to move her, but to move himself, thus allowing her to follow, (b) to be on his balance so as to not encroach upon her space and upset her balance. This is acheived by knowing and understanding one's "circle" (area), and how to move within/around that center. The follow's circle does match the lead's, and she has the same rules as he. again, this allows for a more effortless lead/follow.

Although we read

Angels' Quote:
Know where her center and balance is at all times

, I just don't care for what to me seems like a disconnect - sort of like what you get when your partner isn't doing her part to connect with you.
Again, she has the same rule (above). She is actually more connected. You mentined Cecilia in one of your posts. She, Fabian, and I have taught this very concept together in workshops.
I even dislike the lead follow follow thing.
We have discussed this before on the forum. The concept of lead/follow is so often misunderstood. I always tell my students, "The last thing in the world I ever want you to do is to follow me". Her job is to follow the movement, and not the man.

The concept of "Lead - Follow - follow" is simple. I will lead a movement; let's say a simple forward walk. She will follow that movement by taking a back step. I will then follow her to the end of that movement, then provide another lead.

Hope this helps.

[Dave Bailey]

Though leads have to be clear, care should be taken w/ the idea of the need to stress authority, especially at a higher development.
Not sure about that... it depends on the road you take, I guess.

I think, as a term, the best one I'd use is "Confident". That removes all ambiguities about the relationship which are present in terms like "dominant", "assertive", "strong", "forceful" and so on, and it focusses on what the lead actually needs to do.

As one's skills increase, one begins to realize the many times during the dance that the lead may actually be shared.
Ummm... how? :confused:

[revolution]

3. Lead only by moving your balance within your space, and by rotating around your center. Lead yourself...not your partner. In order to do this, steps 1 and 2 must be maintained; always.
4. Follow your own lead, then that created by the follow (lady). The process is lead-follow-follow; the last being yours.

This is interesting, is the lead-follow-follow suppose to be consistent through the whole dance? Because I also experienced what feels like following (reacting) to my partners tango steps. Also Steve mentioned dancing as one, but what does that mean. Can we say the same tango vocabulary at the same time? Because it seems to me tango is more a conversation where one partner says a phrase, his/her partner listens and then responds with his own phrase. But I don’t know if that’s dancing as one, or if just there are various leads experienced throughout the dance.

Lots of people seem to think that tango has something to do with the nature of a man and a woman. I disagree quite strongly, although I quite accept that lots of people have this opinion. I am not sure I understand you here, though. Is it the fact that man and woman is different that gives you problems?

Well men and women do perceive the world differently, and to me it seems a set of criteria needs to be met to have a follower believe and trust the lead. My concern is that my dancing is too timid, so I am assuming if I exude more dominance it will be more masculine. But throughout reading this thread it seems it be better to work on assertiveness and confidence.

Though leads have to be clear, care should be taken w/ the idea of the need to stress authority, especially at a higher development. As one's skills increase, one begins to realize the many times during the dance that the lead may actually be shared.

This is true, only experienced it for a brief moment. To add to the idea of dancing as one, I think it does not exist. We try to refine our dancing to get really close and dance as one, but for some reason don’t think it will really happen. But we do we try and we get darn close, :), but not quite as one. But I'm starting to think it's more interesting to dance as two but sharing one tango?

[Steve Pastor]

By dancing as one I mean that there is no noticable lag between my movement as a leader and the movement of my partner.
I very much dislike the feeling of dancing the same steps together, but not feeling connected, your "dance as two but sharing one tango." This is a bit harder to put into words. So much so that I'll just say that once you've felt it, you'll know what it feels like. And from what you've written, I'd say you've had a glimpse of it.
A good teacher should be able to set up a situation whereby you can experience it, which is better than reading any description.
Unfortunately, the degree of preferred connectedness varies among individuals, both by style and personal preference.
And yes, I'd say that connectedness can vary within a dance depending on the movement you are doing, what the music is doing, etc.

Oh, and this one comes from a book about swing...
Practice is one of three elements needed to become a good swing dancer.
The other two are: practice, and practice.

Just be sure you are practicing the right things!

[Angel HI]

I think, as a term, the best one I'd use is "Confident".
I like that one better...totally agree.
Ummm... how?
There are many movements that allow this type of exchange. Granted, it is a very high level, and sometimes controversial/ambiguous in its description/exchange. One old vid that comes to mind is Rebecca Shulman's "Exchange of Lead and Follow".

[Angel HI]

This is interesting, is the lead-follow-follow suppose to be consistent through the whole dance?
Yes. I expounded on this in the post http://www.dance-forums.com/showpost.php?p=671647&postcount=33 .

Also Steve mentioned dancing as one, but what does that mean. Can we say the same tango vocabulary at the same time? I'm starting to think it's more interesting to dance as two but sharing one tango?
I'm glat that Steve answered in on this b/c I didn't want to reply for him. You should understand that people (not Steve) say this "...dancing as one..." so often that it has become cliche. It does not mean to not do one's part, or to do what the partner does when the partner does it. Dancing as one is what Steve meant when he said that you will know it when you feel it. It is not a technique, step, or way of dancing. It is the resulting feeling of everything working as it is designed/expected to work.

[Dave Bailey]

There are many movements that allow this type of exchange. Granted, it is a very high level, and sometimes controversial/ambiguous in its description/exchange. One old vid that comes to mind is Rebecca Shulman's "Exchange of Lead and Follow".
I get a standard lead-follow swap. What I don't get is trying to share the lead?

Unless you're referring to some kind of interpretation / hijacking / playing?

David The Confused

[Captain Jep]

Crikey, are we having "thread spaghetti" here? Is this the same topic as on the other 2 threads?

[Zoopsia59]

My concern is that my dancing is too timid, so I am assuming if I exude more dominance it will be more masculine.


I have never met a follower who didn't have an opinion. May I suggest you simply ask a follower that you respect and like dancing with whether your lead is confident and clear or whether it seems timid?

I think just about any follower would be flattered that you sought her perspective and would be glad to help you gently. The ones who would be rude about it don't wait for you to ask for input before being rude anyway, so you really don't need to fear asking.

[Angel HI]

Crikey, are we having "thread spaghetti" here? Is this the same topic as on the other 2 threads?Happens. ;)

May I suggest you simply ask a follower that you respect and like dancing with whether your lead is confident and clear or whether it seems timid?Of course, the probleme w/ that is, is that each person feels differently about what they need/like. What is great for one, night not even be fair to another. :oops: *sigh* ....the bane of a good lead...to be able to find the right touch for each partner.

[Zoopsia59]

quote=Angel HI;672277]
Of course, the probleme w/ that is, is that each person feels differently about what they need/like. What is great for one, night not even be fair to another. [/quote]

True, but with that attitude, there's no point in even trying to figure out how to improve. That's why I suggested he ask a follow (or more than one) that he respects and likes dancing with. Not just any follow he runs into.

Perhaps I should have said ask several follows. If everyone tells him he's too timid, he's probably too timed. If he gets answers split down the middle, he's probably just right. (and now he knows more about those follows' preferences as an added bonus!)

Yeah, everyone has their preferences, but I think for the intermediate and advanced dancers they fall within a certain limited range around "ideal". In talking to followers about the various leaders here, we pretty much all agree that so-and-so is too rough and another so-and so is awkward, and yet another is annoying because of THAT thing he does, (etc) even though we all all different preferences.

We might disagree about styles and moves, and we certainly disagree about teachers, but not so much about how much "assertion" is ideal in a leader. Some may like a little more, some a little less, but its a few points off the center of the continuum, not at the other end of the scale. We tend to agree on which leaders we most like dancing with.

In talking to LEADERS however, I've found that they have a much wider range of how much resistance (or lightness) they want to feel from the follower. :confused: